Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[Gorrad]

Vote Count:

Firestarter(5): Millar13, Korlash, Battousai, Kairyuu, StrangerCoug
StrangerCoug(2): Sajin, alexhans
Lindisfarne(1): GhostWriter
Battousai(1): Firestarter

Not Voting(3): Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn, Isacc, Lindisfarne

[alexhans]

If Fire is scum, then this is a damning post for sure. Also, threats of pressure are stupid, because if you threaten scum they could just kill you and be done with it. This sounds like you are looking for an excuse to go after anyone who ends the Day before you've set up your false connections.

Me wanting to participate in the game before a lynch is scummy? Me wanting to prevent a lynch of a player I found town is scummy? This sounds like you're trying to grab any post I write and pretend it's scummy.

This is totally OMGUS. SC questions you, so you say you're suspicious of him? Pfftt.

Did he question me? NO! he just fosed me before I could even post my thoughts. I believe he saw it as a threat to the assembled Fire lynch.
dude... You said SC and me were scum and that I OMGUS him??? How does that make sense?

This may be a valid point. When I get to SC, if this holds then this may count in your favor.

I don't follow. What does "When i get to SC" mean?

millar has played well. I have a pretty decent town read on him. So yeah, SC is right here. millar>Firestarter.

Millar has played well? Did you read the same game as me? He was full of inconsistencies since his first posts... broken fingers, tactics, Not voting scum seriousness, etc, etc. I disagree.

This is bullshit. Are you seriously trying to defend yourself with the fact that you're a replacement? You are at your own skill level regardless of whether you start a game or replace in.

Did you miss the part where I say "unless they're scum"? No, I don't defend myself. I say that usually replacements are helpful for town because they're more objective.

Thank you for confirming SC's point in the process of denying it.

Elaborate. I don't understand.

You really seem to have your hackles up here. There is no reason to get so antsy over a simple FOS.

Do you know what that FoS is for? For saying "smart mislynch". Serious dude...

Wow... Usually what scum says when they don't know how to push a quicklynch when not every player is playing. I haven't posted my notes in 24 hs and you are already calling for a hammer? Aren't you a little bit interested in what I might have to say?

This reads as "OMG don't lynch my scumbuddy before I get a chance to shift the wagon!"

No, this reads as "How come you want to hammer when I haven't even been able to post".

Please note how much of a complete hypocrite you are. You were doing the EXACT SAME THING that I've been doing, and you have the nerve to call me out for it? PFFFTTT!!

Have I? I wrote as soon as I could and in no way called anyone scum for sure as you did. I also stated a preview of my suspicions. You just called me scum and told me to deal with it because you didn't know what to say.

And then you make, what, is that a case? On who? You pretty much rail on everyone voting Fire, but only accuse SC of being scummy, and for crap reasons

What are those crap reasons in your opinion? You thought SC was scum for one supposed slip. And I give a whole case and you call it crap?

Now we get to your "long post," which is allll over the place. There is no cohesive argument in there. It's pretty much just you trying to fling as much crap on as many people as you can. Possibly trying to see what sticks so you can press further.

A few more posts chock full of crap slinging and buddying to batt and we get to the point where I got here. From there on I've said what I needed to say on you.

You're saying nothing here. You're just tossing accusations dude. If you say something explain why... I could just go with...
"kairyuu sucks, he doesn't make sense, his vote is crap, he is scum" but that wouldn't be valid because I wouldn't be backing up my statement.

Also, note that you seem to have a problem with my attacking SC, even though YOU were all over him for most of the game. Pot kettle much?

....*sigh*. I just thought you didn't have a case on him to call him scum. You just said he was scum (and looked very positive) or one phrase he had said. That was not a good case. If I vote for SC is because I find him probably scummy. But if someone jumps on his waggon for no reason I will be highly suspicious. That's exactly what happened with Sajin's vote. I didn't like it at all. Even though he votes the same as me. What if SC is town? I'm gonna leave opportunistics get away with lynching him? no.

Case enough for you?

It's better than before. But if you look at my answers you'll see that I'm not satisfied at all.

@all: Based on observations from this post, I think that alexhans implicates Firestarter as scum, and since deadline lynch is almost assuredly going to be Fire,

simply due to deadline

, I will

Is this necessary? Or are you covering your ass? So you don't think SC is scum anymore?
Fire was about to be lynched... Do really think I, as scum, would try to defend a practically condemned partner? Wouldn't that be a giveaway? And what if Fire flips town? Are you gonna accuse me of buddying? because that's what I'm predicting

alexhans scum for tomorrow kthxbai

Regardless of any info we may get? good. Really pro town.

----

Good case on alexhans, though.

Again... Why? What is good...? Specify. What do you think about my answers?

[Battousai]

"id he question me? NO! he just fosed me before I could even post my thoughts. I believe he saw it as a threat to the assembled Fire lynch.
dude... You said SC and me were scum and that I OMGUS him??? How does that make sense?"

I'd like to point out this is wrong. SC fos'd you after your second post, where you call Fire town and the threat to anyone who hammers (I believe that would be consider a thought of yours). Therefore, SC had a right to Fos you if he found that scummy.

"Do you know what that FoS is for? For saying "smart mislynch". Serious dude..."

So this states you know SC FoS'd you for one of your thoughts, its just that you don't agree with SC that it was scummy.

"You're saying nothing here. You're just tossing accusations dude. If you say something explain why... I could just go with...
"kairyuu sucks, he doesn't make sense, his vote is crap, he is scum" but that wouldn't be valid because I wouldn't be backing up my statement. "

I don't get what was wrong with that. My interpretation was that you were basically testing the waters by making as many cases as you can, which is more likely to come from scum than town.

FoS: Alex

These answers have really taken away from your defense of Kairyuu's case.

[alexhans]

I'd like to point out this is wrong. SC fos'd you after your second post, where you call Fire town and the threat to anyone who hammers (I believe that would be consider a thought of yours). Therefore, SC had a right to Fos you if he found that scummy.

Hello! "Smart Mislynch"!!!???
Here it is...

I'm on page 6 and already afraid that there is gonna be a smart myslinch regarding Fire.

Excuse me, but, uh... "smart mislynch"? The only way I'm making sense of this is if you know Firestarter to be town, which is impossible in a day start unless you're scum.

FoS: alexhans

So the fact that I think Fire is town is taken as if I knew he was town and therefore mafia? Riiiiight...
As I've said, I found highly relevant that a player that I had just replaced as scum (and finished a game with) would FoS me for the first thing I post. I looked like prevention against me. Accuse him before he accuses you. And he was casually the player I was liking less when I wrote what I wrote.

So this states you know SC FoS'd you for one of your thoughts, its just that you don't agree with SC that it was scummy.

Oh... So THAT was scummy? Saying smart mislynch? I honestly can't believe it.

I don't get what was wrong with that. My interpretation was that you were basically testing the waters by making as many cases as you can, which is more likely to come from scum than town.

You don't see what's wrong with saying my cases are crap and that Im buddying, bussing, talking crap, without saying what he is referring to?
When I'm testing the waters? How?
And if you mean that asking questions and investigating more than 1 person is scummy then you're the one who's making scummy statements... What do you want me to do? Tunnel vision? That IS scummy. I'm gonna be open minded and look for evidence for myself. Not follow up on another guy's post without saying anything relevant.

FoS: Alex

These answers have really taken away from your defense of Kairyuu's case.

So you FoS me exactly why? Taken me away? What do you mean? Give a clear reason... Am I avoiding something?
Have you read the case? I thought you judged better... He just dismisses my case to SC as crap, say I'm talking BS, I fling as much crap on many people as I can, Full of crap, buddying, hypocrite, first I'm defending my scumbuddy then I'm buddying... All of that COMPLETELY unexplained. look at the post and tell me if he explains succesfully what he is talking about.

@everyone: Read Kairyuu's post... And then tell me if his case is a case and if battou's FoS is valid.

@all: Based on observations from this post, I think that alexhans implicates Firestarter as scum, and since deadline lynch is almost assuredly going to be Fire, simply due to deadline, I will

I implicate Fire as scum??? That's his excuse for voting him??? Good one.
Let me remember something:

Firestarter is town too (though I wish I wasn't so sure of that, since he's a nuisance).

This one is more solid. The resignation was way too sincere to be faked, and the position he was in when it happened was too dangerous to try that as scum.

Quick, convenient, change of mind. SC doesn't think you're acting weird and so you rapidly forget about him right? but now, since you wanna jump on the waggon you do a 180 degress turn and find Fire as scum? If you honestly thought I was scum you would be voting me. Not fire.

[StrangerCoug]

Good case on alexhans, though.

Again... Why? What is good...? Specify. What do you think about my answers?

Here you go:

If Fire is scum, then this is a damning post for sure. Also, threats of pressure are stupid, because if you threaten scum they could just kill you and be done with it. This sounds like you are looking for an excuse to go after anyone who ends the Day before you've set up your false connections.

Me wanting to participate in the game before a lynch is scummy? Me wanting to prevent a lynch of a player I found town is scummy? This sounds like you're trying to grab any post I write and pretend it's scummy.

It is perfectly OK to participate before a lynch; in fact, participation is a prerequisite to lynching.

This is totally OMGUS. SC questions you, so you say you're suspicious of him? Pfftt.

Did he question me? NO! he just fosed me before I could even post my thoughts.

That contradicts this from later in your post:

Do you know what that FoS is for? For saying "smart mislynch". Serious dude...

"Smart mislynch" was a thought of yours.

Did you miss the part where I say "unless they're scum"? No, I don't defend myself. I say that usually replacements are helpful for town because they're more objective.

Operative word "usually", but I don't like the words "they're more objective" here. Something that better reflects what I personally think is "they often offer fresh insight." This has nothing directly with Kairyuu calling you out for the replacement card, so this shouldn't be construed as attacking this particular part of your defense.

This reads as "OMG don't lynch my scumbuddy before I get a chance to shift the wagon!"

No, this reads as "How come you want to hammer when I haven't even been able to post".

This I'm going to let play out, but if Kairyuu thinks you are being manipulative, then he has interpreted your post in a way consistent with his thoughts.

@all: Based on observations from this post, I think that alexhans implicates Firestarter as scum, and since deadline lynch is almost assuredly going to be Fire,

simply due to deadline

, I will

Is this necessary? Or are you covering your ass? So you don't think SC is scum anymore?

Firestarter is clearly who will be lynched today. I do not see how Kairyuu's voting him clears me in the same way I don't see myself as clearing Sajin by voting Firestarter.

Do really think I, as scum, would try to defend a practically condemned partner? Wouldn't that be a giveaway?

At least your third WIFOM here. I'm not surprised Kairyuu wants you to die.

[Battousai]

You don't see what's wrong with saying my cases are crap and that Im buddying, bussing, talking crap, without saying what he is referring to?
When I'm testing the waters? How?
And if you mean that asking questions and investigating more than 1 person is scummy then you're the one who's making scummy statements... What do you want me to do? Tunnel vision? That IS scummy. I'm gonna be open minded and look for evidence for myself. Not follow up on another guy's post without saying anything relevant.

I was talking about the first half of the quote you listed -

Now we get to your "long post," which is allll over the place. There is no cohesive argument in there. It's pretty much just you trying to fling as much crap on as many people as you can. Possibly trying to see what sticks so you can press further.

I see nothing wrong with that. Playing mafia, you have to take into account how other players play it. Now, from his POV, he sees you doing that and saying that is scummy, from his perspective, is ok. Also note that I never agreed with the statement, just that there is nothing wrong with it.

The reason why I FoS'd you was not based on Kairyuu's case, but more of your defense of it. I found it suspicious how you word things, as in-

Did he question me? NO! he just fosed me before I could even post my thoughts. I believe he saw it as a threat to the assembled Fire lynch.
dude... You said SC and me were scum and that I OMGUS him??? How does that make sense

[Battousai]

EBWOP:

Accidentally hit entered prematurely... continuing off last quote...

Before you could post thoughts. You make it sound like you didn't even make a statement before he FoS'd you, while in actuallity you had a post about Fire being town and wanting to stop a smart mislynch. Then when Kairyuu mentioned it, you dismissed the reason of SC's FoS.

[alexhans]

Why is the wording suspicious?

So, you're gonna excuse him for POV? Then no one is responsible for making clear, explained cases because they're entitled to a point of view?

Ok. Then why you never excused fire like that? Why don't you excuse me like that? Isn't it my POV?

NO. We should be obliged to present cases that explain what we mean. otherwise we're just being anti-town.

Imagine this situation. You're town. You have a gut feeling on someone. He is town too but of course you don't know it. You think he is scummy but don't know why so you just basically manufacture some things and call crap everything he does without developing... You'll never get a decent response because you never made a case... you just stated your point of view withouot presenting evidence to support it. You're never gonna be able to find out if he is town or not.

In the same lines of Kairyuu's post... I could make every single player in the game scummy if I wanted... even those who havent posted. You just gotta say some unsupported, opinionated stuff and look really convinced.

ADDED. just seen this:

Before you could post thoughts. You make it sound like you didn't even make a statement before he FoS'd you, while in actuallity you had a post about Fire being town and wanting to stop a smart mislynch. Then when Kairyuu mentioned it, you dismissed the reason of SC's FoS.

Exactly. He fosed me for saying "smart mislynch"! come on... and then when I accused him he suddenly starts seeing me as more and more scummy. He thinks the "everyone" thing called out by millar is a "very good" (without saying why of course) when he had previously said that Fire was only a good case and finally he votes for me. If you don't find that highly relevant then I don't know what else to say to you.

[Battousai]

Why is the wording suspicious?

Answered that in my last post. "You make it sound like you didn't even make a statement before he FoS'd you, while in actuallity you had a post about Fire being town and wanting to stop a smart mislynch."

So, you're gonna excuse him for POV? Then no one is responsible for making clear, explained cases because they're entitled to a point of view?

I saw nothing wrong with the case, did I agree with it? No. Notice I said I gave you a FoS because of your defence to the accusations and not the accusations themselves. If you make a clear, explained case, more often then not the only one who has a problem with the case is the person the case is against. From POV, you can see how they come to that conclusion, and if you can't then something is wrong with the case.

Ok. Then why you never excused fire like that? Why don't you excuse me like that? Isn't it my POV?

See last quote. I found your response questionable, as from your point of view, I don't see why you would exaggerate a case/defense the way you did.

NO. We should be obliged to present cases that explain what we mean. otherwise we're just being anti-town.

I never disputed that. Why would looking at someone's POV excuse from making a case with no meaning? I wanted Kairyuu to make a case or unvote. You aren't making any sense.

In the same lines of Kairyuu's post... I could make every single player in the game scummy if I wanted... even those who havent posted. You just gotta say some unsupported, opinionated stuff and look really convinced.

Kairyuu made an opionated case WITH support. Now if you do what you suggested, that would be scummy since you accuse everyone without reasoning.

Exactly. He fosed me for saying "smart mislynch"! come on...

and then when I accused him he suddenly starts seeing me as more and more scummy. He thinks the "everyone" thing called out by millar is a "very good" (without saying why of course) when he had previously said that Fire was only a good case and finally he votes for me.

If you don't find that highly relevant then I don't know what else to say to you.

The italicized is irrelevant to the point at hand (SC fos'ing you). I believe he FoS'd you for already calling Fire town at the page you were at. How does anything you just posted in response to that quote relate to you lieing/exagerating on the "Before you could post thoughts."? Nothing, you are just going around the issue.

[Firestarter]

Ok, 5 votes on me since I last posted....

Right, with deadline so close, my lynch is now inevitable.

Of the 5 with votes on me, Korlash seemed more townie than the others in the discussions between us.
He has made the most sense in his posts, and I think he's more townlike than the others.
Korlash.... only for the tunnelling, eh!!!

Battousai, well Ive stated what I thought of him, and still hold the opinion he's scum.
The other trio.. Millar13, Kairyuu, StrangerCoug, well all 3 of them called me townie right before I stopped posting, yet on further discussion, they've thrown their votes on me, be it for convenience or otherwise..

Alexhans made alot of sense with seeing my posts as I wrote them, and actually helped me in the middle part of this day in stopping my lynch.
Staunch defence could mean 2 things, either he firmly believed me to be town, or he's scum knowing that Ill be lynched regardless of any defences put up.
More town than scum imo.

With so many players linked to me, your gonna find it hard to flush out scum next day, ya know, the one where Bat & Korlash said "my links" would help out after Ive been lynched...
Well, Im invariably "linked" to everyone, congratulations.
But if the day ended 2 weeks ago, there would be a hell of alot less info for town to work on.. so Im glad the D1 deadline was met for that.

Anyway... Shinichi or Jimmy. lol.. good spot for you scum-hunters, or downright scum-merchants!!
The funny thing is, some posters called me dumb at one point in the game, and then called me clever scum for using such an "elaborate" backtrack by reffering to wiki as the source of how I came across Shinichi, not Jimmy...
No-one did ever answer that, did they?

M13.. where have you gone???????
Your case on me died, as did SC's, yet your nowhere to be seen???
Is it that others suceeded where you failed?
Opportunistic?
..and distancing from me with your all too infrequent posts saying you "have a feeling I could be town", but keeping your vote on me???

Just take a look at the content Ive posted since I became resigned to being lynched, does anyone seriously, playing as scum, post that much content???
Or try to scumhunt with rational like I did?

I didn't just randomly throw out votes, I made cases, and voted on my beliefs.

Town, take a look in D1 at those who basically tried to rubbish all I posted in this game, tried to refure everything I said, basically, look at those who saw an opportunity to lynch town in D1, and those who tried to distance from me at some point.

I dont expect to make another post here before deadline, so good luck town!!

[Kairyuu]

@SC:

Minor FoS: Kairyuu since that last sentence reeks a little of lining up lynches.

Deadline is in all of 2 days. I would VERY much prefer an alexhans lynch for D1, but I do not see that as even close to feasible, so I am declaring my intent to go after him tomorrow.

@alexhans:

Me wanting to participate in the game before a lynch is scummy? Me wanting to prevent a lynch of a player I found town is scummy?

Right. Yeah. That's totally what I accused you of. Try actually addressing my points instead of trying to dodge them.

Did he question me? NO! he just fosed me before I could even post my thoughts. I believe he saw it as a threat to the assembled Fire lynch.

This has already been addressed as bullshit by other people.

You said SC and me were scum and that I OMGUS him??? How does that make sense?

As is

quite

obvious by the rest of my post, your actions have caused me to think that SC is likely town.

I don't follow. What does "When i get to SC" mean?

I was originally planning to make another post detailing my case on Strangercoug, but your actions have made me think that that can wait until D2, or possibly be foregone altogether.

Millar has played well? Did you read the same game as me? He was full of inconsistencies since his first posts... broken fingers, tactics, Not voting scum seriousness, etc, etc. I disagree.

My turn to ask a question. Have you read any of millar's other games? He improved dramatically during this game. To the point where I am actually beginning to like his play. Besides, attacking millar for playing poorly=/=attacking him for being scummy.

Did you miss the part where I say "unless they're scum"? No, I don't defend myself. I say that usually replacements are helpful for town because they're more objective.

Replacements only come in with an objective read if they read the game

before

replacing in. Your point says nothing.

Elaborate. I don't understand.

SC said you were scared, and in the process of saying he was wrong, you said you

feared

something, confirming that SC was right while you tried to deny it.

Do you know what that FoS is for? For saying "smart mislynch". Serious dude...

Another point already covered by other people.

No, this reads as "How come you want to hammer when I haven't even been able to post".

PFFFTTT!!

Have I? I wrote as soon as I could and in no way called anyone scum for sure as you did. I also stated a preview of my suspicions. You just called me scum and told me to deal with it because you didn't know what to say.

And guess what I said. OH YEAH, that I was going to post AS SOON AS I HAD MORE TIME. The expression of suspicion is irrelevent. That is just the way I do things.

What are those crap reasons in your opinion? You thought SC was scum for one supposed slip. And I give a whole case and you call it crap?

You gave a "whole case" on EVERYONE VOTING FIRESTARTER. That is not a case. That is a shitstorm.

You're saying nothing here. You're just tossing accusations dude. If you say something explain why... I could just go with...

What do you expect me to do? Go through all fo your reasoning on other people and cut it down? Hell no. I provided my view. Unless you can prove that your random flailing had a purpose other than what I proposed, then that view will not change.

....*sigh*. I just thought you didn't have a case on him to call him scum. You just said he was scum (and looked very positive) or one phrase he had said. That was not a good case. If I vote for SC is because I find him probably scummy. But if someone jumps on his waggon for no reason I will be highly suspicious.

I provided a reason for my vote on SC, and provided reasoning as to why that was scummy. I do not

care

if

you

think that my vote was well reasoned or not. You are not the Grand Arbiter of Votes.

It's better than before. But if you look at my answers you'll see that I'm not satisfied at all.

I don't care. It is an irrefutable fact that no one who is under suspicion actually agrees with the cases made against them.

Is this necessary? Or are you covering your ass? So you don't think SC is scum anymore?

Thank you captain obvious. I only stated that I think SC is town like 4 times in that post. Also, I'm not covering my ass. There is no other conceivable lynch that will happen today, and any lynch>No Lynch.

Do really think I, as scum, would try to defend a practically condemned partner? Wouldn't that be a giveaway?

Yes. I do. Neglecting the fact that this is WIFOM (I do not consider WIFOM to be bad either way), the fact that you must act incredulous instead of actually defending yourself does nothing to assuage my suspicions.

And what if Fire flips town? Are you gonna accuse me of buddying? because that's what I'm predicting

You are scummy independantly of Firestarter. Therefore, you are scummy regardless of his flip. Hence why I would prefer to lynch you over him.

Regardless of any info we may get? good. Really pro town.

If there is other convincing information, then no shit I will look at other people. Not doing that would be absolutely idiotic.

[alexhans]

behold, Long post

I was trying to meta you on other games you replaced into to see if you're naturally agressive or conveniently agressive but apparently it's just you. Anyway in Mini 716: El Puma you gave far better cases than here although you were quick to call half the people in the game scum.

I'm on page 6 and already afraid that there is gonna be a smart myslinch regarding Fire. I'm pretty positive that there is scum on that waggon. I'm not waiting till I finish my reading to tell you this because I'm afraid someone might hammer.

DONT DARE HAMMER!!!

If you do... I'll pursue you tomorrow till you're lynched...

Leave us replacements time to post and get answered.

If Fire is scum, then this is a damning post for sure. Also, threats of pressure are stupid, because if you threaten scum they could just kill you and be done with it. This sounds like you are looking for an excuse to go after anyone who ends the Day before you've set up your false connections.

@alexhans:

Me wanting to participate in the game before a lynch is scummy? Me wanting to prevent a lynch of a player I found town is scummy?

Right. Yeah. That's totally what I accused you of. Try actually addressing my points instead of trying to dodge them.

I don't know what to do with you, seriously... Look, you're saying that if fire is scum then me defending him is scummy but then say that I'm scummy independently? It's a mess of contradictions since you first posted... If fire seems townier than me... Why not vote me instead of fire? About my threat being stupid... I disagree. If someone hammers and then I'm dead you will have something to work with... Why did they kill me?
I'm looking for an excuse? NO! Im trying to get to play the game! If I let them know then pro-town players will wait for my input and scum will have to be careful.

Did he question me? NO! he just fosed me before I could even post my thoughts. I believe he saw it as a threat to the assembled Fire lynch.

This has already been addressed as bullshit by other people.

Wich doesn't mean anything because those people could be either scum or just wrong. And what's important here is if YOU think is BS and why.

You said SC and me were scum and that I OMGUS him??? How does that make sense?

As is

quite

obvious by the rest of my post, your actions have caused me to think that SC is likely town.

fair enough. And if you actually lynch me and realize Im town what will that indicate? And if I was lynched before fire? what would THAT indicate?

I don't follow. What does "When i get to SC" mean?

I was originally planning to make another post detailing my case on Strangercoug, but your actions have made me think that that can wait until D2, or possibly be foregone altogether.

While I don't mind that you can prefer to wait posting your case on SC (If you go by the same logic of Kor and Battou) I don't see why you think you should wipe all suspicion to the point that your case will be foregone altogether.

Millar has played well? Did you read the same game as me? He was full of inconsistencies since his first posts... broken fingers, tactics, Not voting scum seriousness, etc, etc. I disagree.

My turn to ask a question. Have you read any of millar's other games? He improved dramatically during this game. To the point where I am actually beginning to like his play. Besides, attacking millar for playing poorly=/=attacking him for being scummy.

Not any finished games I can't comment on. I haven't liked his playstyle at all but I have town read on him, there's a lot of reasons why in my first posts. I just think it's a pity that he has fallen behind in this game.

Did you miss the part where I say "unless they're scum"? No, I don't defend myself. I say that usually replacements are helpful for town because they're more objective.

Replacements only come in with an objective read if they read the game

before

replacing in. Your point says nothing.

I don't agree. Replacement is notified that he is allowed to join. Replacement starts reading totally free of the emotions of the moment. Therefore, a town replacement has IMO a slight advantage as to finding scum. If you say that I got emotional with SC's Fos you may be right in a way but it was definetly after I already suspected him and had a good read of half the game.

Elaborate. I don't understand.

SC said you were scared, and in the process of saying he was wrong, you said you

feared

something, confirming that SC was right while you tried to deny it.

Again I don't know what's your point.
- I think Fire is town after my read.
- I see Fire looks likely to be lynched
- I read the votecount in the last page.
- I think he is at L-1
- I panic that I might not even give input to the game and possibly be NKd
- I write what I write and then realize he is at L-2, I clarify.
- I get a fos from the most suspicious player IMO for saying smart mislynch.
- I POINT OUT THAT I WAS AFRAID (OF COURSE) THAT A TOWN PLAYER WAS GONNA BE LYNCHED BEFORE i COULD SAY ANYTHING.
- You pretend that if fire is scum then I am scum because me being afraid can only be possible if I'm scum and don't want my scumbuddy lynched.

Do you know what that FoS is for? For saying "smart mislynch". Serious dude...

Another point already covered by other people.

What did they say? If you say something against me I expect that you try to be clear. Not vaguely say that other people have answered this. I'm asking you.

No, this reads as "How come you want to hammer when I haven't even been able to post".

PFFFTTT!!

... If you dismiss my thoughts like that you're not being pro-town. In fact, you look pretty set. I'm wondering if it is because I repeatedly demanded that you state your case and you got pissed. If that's the case I would urge you to reconsider and try to investigate all players because you may just be running down the tunnel-vission road.

Have I? I wrote as soon as I could and in no way called anyone scum for sure as you did. I also stated a preview of my suspicions. You just called me scum and told me to deal with it because you didn't know what to say.

And guess what I said. OH YEAH, that I was going to post AS SOON AS I HAD MORE TIME. The expression of suspicion is irrelevent. That is just the way I do things.

Ok. I'm checking this in your meta. I just didn't like it one bit.

What are those crap reasons in your opinion? You thought SC was scum for one supposed slip. And I give a whole case and you call it crap?

You gave a "whole case" on EVERYONE VOTING FIRESTARTER. That is not a case. That is a shitstorm.

Wrong. I posted my notes (in a rush due to Battou's L-1) on why I thought Fire's vote was wrong and that it was probably scum driven. My main case was on SC.

You're saying nothing here. You're just tossing accusations dude. If you say something explain why... I could just go with...

What do you expect me to do? Go through all fo your reasoning on other people and cut it down? Hell no. I provided my view. Unless you can prove that your random flailing had a purpose other than what I proposed, then that view will not change.

No... But you're just calling my cases crap in general, and that I'm a hypocryte, and my posts are bullshit... I can't answer to that. I could also just say that you don't make sense and vote crappyly but I wouldn't be explaining anythhing and it wouldn't be enough. And what's more, I wouldn't get a useful answer from you (to determin your alignment).

....*sigh*. I just thought you didn't have a case on him to call him scum. You just said he was scum (and looked very positive) or one phrase he had said. That was not a good case. If I vote for SC is because I find him probably scummy. But if someone jumps on his waggon for no reason I will be highly suspicious.

I provided a reason for my vote on SC, and provided reasoning as to why that was scummy. I do not

care

if

you

think that my vote was well reasoned or not. You are not the Grand Arbiter of Votes.

YOU CALLED MY CASE CRAP! And you say Im not the Grand Arbiter of Votes? Well... neither are you. What gives YOU the right to call my case crap without even explaining?

It's better than before. But if you look at my answers you'll see that I'm not satisfied at all.

I don't care. It is an irrefutable fact that no one who is under suspicion actually agrees with the cases made against them.

Wrong. I can see where someone makes valid points. For example millar's point about me writing everyone instead of just 2 is valid. I usually generalize and say everyone too much but it was a good point anyway. Your points are not like that.

Is this necessary? Or are you covering your ass? So you don't think SC is scum anymore?

Thank you captain obvious. I only stated that I think SC is town like 4 times in that post. Also, I'm not covering my ass. There is no other conceivable lynch that will happen today, and any lynch>No Lynch.

You mean Fire? You said fire was town... anyway... You rather lynch a town player than no lynch, That is correct IMO... but do you really think there's gonna be a no lynch if you vote me instead of Fire when you think fire is probably town and I probably scum? That, I do not understand.

Do really think I, as scum, would try to defend a practically condemned partner? Wouldn't that be a giveaway?

Yes. I do. Neglecting the fact that this is WIFOM (I do not consider WIFOM to be bad either way), the fact that you must act incredulous instead of actually defending yourself does nothing to assuage my suspicions.

Following your thoughts I'd have to be really stupid because when they finally lynched Fire (As it looks like is gonna happen) I would be under obvious scrutiny... If I were scum I would rather buss him to shove of suspicion from myself (You'll probably say it's WIFOM, I'll say it's my logic). Am I not defending myself? Battou calls me for overreacting in my defense and you say I'm acting incredulous? I just want to make the best for the town out of any situation. How am I supposed to defend in your opinion? Insult you and say your case is crap or what?

And what if Fire flips town? Are you gonna accuse me of buddying? because that's what I'm predicting

You are scummy independantly of Firestarter. Therefore, you are scummy regardless of his flip. Hence why I would prefer to lynch you over him.

But, unfortunately you think that I'm scum therefore he is scum so you vote him? Why not vote me in that case? Just because his waggon is bigger?

Can you give us a similar list to the one I assembled about what you think about the players in the game? (Fire, SC, me, Battou, Kor, etc)

And where's everyone else? this post discussion with kayr is boring and demoralizing me... Where are the replacements?

[StrangerCoug]

If I were scum I would rather buss him to shove of suspicion from myself (You'll probably say it's WIFOM, I'll say it's my logic).

You're digging your own grave at this point regardless.

[alexhans]

How? You know How me and Shanba bussed each other in 714...

I'm not afraid of speaking hypothetically of me being scum... Because Im not.

You, on the other hand, have retreated to a safe spot since you sensed that people were attacking you (Fire, Sajin, me). That's so much more scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

What safe spot? I've already defended against Firestarter, Sajin refuses to post anything decent against me, and you've screwed your case's credibility over.

[alexhans]

How did I screw my case credibility over? I'm the only one actually taking the time to explain things... You're just saying: No valid, I'm right, you're digging your grave... That looks like you're really confortable with the game so far and plan to keep it that way... far away from you.

[StrangerCoug]

You seem addicted to WIFOM, you blow things out of proportion (OK, I must admit that I did that too to an extent, but I still found things to back up what I said), you present my FoS on you in an anachronistic matter, and there are probably other things that I can't think of at 9:45 at night and/or other people think of you.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: matter = manner. I need some sleep.

[alexhans]

SC: You have to remember that my case is not based on the FoS... the fos is an extra fact that signals your scummyness. Read the post where I voted you for a comprised read on your case.

[Korlash]

This seems to be the only thing really directed at me or about me... Correct me if I missed anythin...

Of the 5 with votes on me, Korlash seemed more townie than the others in the discussions between us.
He has made the most sense in his posts, and I think he's more townlike than the others.
Korlash.... only for the tunnelling, eh!!!

I suppose seeing as how I'm acting I guess I have become a little tunneled now. There's no denying that. I still think this day should have ended two weeks ago...

@kor: I just wish that those who don't share are not killed tonight because that would make their info worthless.

it won't matter... Not enough to really justify worrying about it. And their info isn't worthless, just harder to find. The only info we won't get is if a lurker is killed. And I honestly wouldn't trust any opinions of a lurker very much anyway.

[StrangerCoug]

SC: You have to remember that my case is not based on the FoS... the fos is an extra fact that signals your scummyness. Read the post where I voted you for a comprised read on your case.

I never intended to say it was. However, you said I made the FoS without giving you a chance to post

ANY

of your thoughts when it's clear from the reasoning behind it, whether you agree with it or not, that you had at that point. That's why the anachronistic bit is there.

[Kairyuu]

@alexhans:

I was trying to meta you on other games you replaced into to see if you're naturally agressive or conveniently agressive but apparently it's just you.

I did tell you that. Several times actually.

Anyway in Mini 716: El Puma you gave far better cases than here although you were quick to call half the people in the game scum.

You only think its a bad case because it's against you.

I don't know what to do with you, seriously...

I have a brilliant idea. How about you admit you're scum and we can move on.

Look, you're saying that if fire is scum then me defending him is scummy but then say that I'm scummy independently?

Strawman. Your defense of Firestarter is not even close to the only point in my case. You are extremely scummy regardless of Firestarter's flip.

It's a mess of contradictions since you first posted

Bullshit. I have given reasons for these so-called "contradictions."

If fire seems townier than me... Why not vote me instead of fire?

Because DEADLINE IS TOMORROW! There is no chance that I can shift the wagon to you by tomorrow, as if evidenced by the fact that no one besides me has said they want to be voting you over Fire right now. Therefore, since any lynch>a No Lynch, you get my vote.

About my threat being stupid... I disagree. If someone hammers and then I'm dead you will have something to work with... Why did they kill me?

Let's analyze this little piece of WIFOM. If the person who hammers is scum, then they will have all of one person suspicious of them going into D2. That isn't all that worrying, and probably won't make you high on their kill priority list. However, if the hammerer is town, then the scum could frame said hammerer by killing you, and then bringing this up D2. Mob mentality could possibly kick in, and suddenly there's a wagon on the hammer vote because you died. Second scenerio is much more likely than first.

Wich doesn't mean anything because those people could be either scum or just wrong. And what's important here is if YOU think is BS and why.

If I say that I agree with something that has already been mentioned, then that means I AGREE with them, and have nothing more to add.

And if you actually lynch me and realize Im town what will that indicate?

That I need to go back and reevaluate SC.

And if I was lynched before fire? what would THAT indicate?

Same as above except it would also push my read of Fire back to where it was when I started.

While I don't mind that you can prefer to wait posting your case on SC (If you go by the same logic of Kor and Battou) I don't see why you think you should wipe all suspicion to the point that your case will be foregone altogether.

I don't see myself actually ignoring the case altogether, don't worry about that. However, better cases always take precedence with me.

Not any finished games I can't comment on. I haven't liked his playstyle at all but I have town read on him, there's a lot of reasons why in my first posts. I just think it's a pity that he has fallen behind in this game.

Go take a look at Mini Normal: Super F11 (dunno number), Newbie 750, and Open 124: Bugs Bunny. He's gotten much better since those games.

I don't agree. Replacement is notified that he is allowed to join. Replacement starts reading totally free of the emotions of the moment. Therefore, a town replacement has IMO a slight advantage as to finding scum. If you say that I got emotional with SC's Fos you may be right in a way but it was definetly after I already suspected him and had a good read of half the game.

Except that you know who you are replacing, and any comments about this person will skew your objectivity. Trust me, there has been at least one thread in Mafia Discussion on this topic. If you were following the game before you requested to replace then you would have this edge you talk about, but this is not the case. Can we drop this bit?

You pretend that if fire is scum then I am scum because me being afraid can only be possible if I'm scum and don't want my scumbuddy lynched.

Not what I am saying. Strangercoug said that you looked afraid regarding the Fire lynch, and while you were saying that he was wrong (i.e. that you were not afraid) you said that you feared a Fire lynch, which is EXACTLY what you were trying to deny.

What did they say? If you say something against me I expect that you try to be clear. Not vaguely say that other people have answered this. I'm asking you.

I don't care what you expect of me. I will play the way I want to, and I will not change it because you don't like it. Your point has been addressed already by other people. Go look up what they said because I'm not going to rehash a point uselessly.

If you dismiss my thoughts like that you're not being pro-town.

You repeated a previous point, which I had already addressed. I'm not gonna get into a "no,

you're

wrong" battle with you about that. Are you even looking at what I was addressing, or just arguing for the sake of arguing?

In fact, you look pretty set. I'm wondering if it is because I repeatedly demanded that you state your case and you got pissed.

Of course I'm "set." I'm always "set." Attitude is a big part of the mind-game that it Mafia, and acting totally convinced at all times is quite effective at outing jumpy scum.

As to the second bit, HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO ADDRESS THIS POINT? I was pissed because you wouldn't just shut your mouth about my not posting my case immediately upon request and wait until I had more time like I said I needed. Out of game reasons are NOT to be questioned. Doing so is BAD PLAY, because it assumes that I am lying about something that HAS NO BEARING ON MY ALIGNMENT. I will not address this point again. Deal with it.

If that's the case I would urge you to reconsider and try to investigate all players because you may just be running down the tunnel-vission road.

You are currently shining strong and bright on my scumdar. until someone takes your place I will push and prod and pressure you until you break, like you are showing signs of doing right now with your "oh, you shouldn't only attack me. You should spread out your suspicion so that I don't get so worried about your attacks."

Ok. I'm checking this in your meta. I just didn't like it one bit.

It is evident by the beginning of your post that you already did, and found out I was telling the truth.

Wrong. I posted my notes (in a rush due to Battou's L-1) on why I thought Fire's vote was wrong and that it was probably scum driven. My main case was on SC.

Well then your "main case" was hidden amongst attacks on everyone else on the Fire wagon. Are you trying to say that there are 6 scum in this game? If not, then the attacks were excessive and only served to muddy the waters and possibly provide you-scum with a springboard later in the game to pull one of them back up if one of the people you attacked gets wagoned.

No... But you're just calling my cases crap in general, and that I'm a hypocryte, and my posts are bullshit... I can't answer to that.

Yes you can, and you have been. As I mentioned above. Mafia is a mind game. My attitude elicits reactions that are just as helpful as the reactions and responses to my words.

I could also just say that you don't make sense and vote crappyly but I wouldn't be explaining anythhing and it wouldn't be enough.

You would also be wrong.

And what's more, I wouldn't get a useful answer from you (to determin your alignment).

All that means is that you haven't figured out how to use responses gathered that way to their fullest.

YOU CALLED MY CASE CRAP! And you say Im not the Grand Arbiter of Votes?

Yes. That is exactly what I said.

Well... neither are you.

Yes I am.

What gives YOU the right to call my case crap without even explaining?

I already told you, because I'm the Grand Arbiter of Votes. You're fun to screw around with.

Wrong. I can see where someone makes valid points. For example millar's point about me writing everyone instead of just 2 is valid. I usually generalize and say everyone too much but it was a good point anyway. Your points are not like that.

Considering that you have not defended well against

any

of the points I brought against you, I say you're caught scum who just realized the extent of the case against him.

You mean Fire?

Yup.

You said fire was town... anyway... You rather lynch a town player than no lynch

He is more likely town than scum in my eyes, but there is always the chance that I am wrong, and No Lynching would not give us even that possibility.

but do you really think there's gonna be a no lynch if you vote me instead of Fire when you think fire is probably town and I probably scum?

Every vote counts in getting a lynch. If people start to unvote, then it is possible that my vote could be the only one pushing a lynch through. This is my mentality, and is why I am always voting at the end of a Day, usually for the person being lynched.

Following your thoughts I'd have to be really stupid because when they finally lynched Fire (As it looks like is gonna happen) I would be under obvious scrutiny...

And you would also be able to pull this exact same card out in your defense. My point stands.

If I were scum I would rather buss him to shove of suspicion from myself

I doubt that. Late bussing is noticed more often than not, and you would have this card to pull if he was lynched as scum and you defended him.

Am I not defending myself?

Your "defense" is acting incredulous that we would suspect you of doing something like this. It is not true defense.

How am I supposed to defend in your opinion? Insult you and say your case is crap or what?

You could try that. Or you could try providing logical reasons for why you would freak out at a potential lynch, and then attack literally everyone on the wagon. (Hint: There is no good reason why someone would do that as town).

But, unfortunately you think that I'm scum therefore he is scum so you vote him? Why not vote me in that case? Just because his waggon is bigger?

Yes, with the added condition that deadline is so close so voting you would be wasting my vote, whereas voting him is useful.

Can you give us a similar list to the one I assembled about what you think about the players in the game? (Fire, SC, me, Battou, Kor, etc)

Sure, why not.

Battosai: Solid town read on him. Logical and valid points.

Korlash: Lotsa wall posts. Neutral towards him, leaning town.

madeofphail: No contribution, no read.

Lindisfarne: No read. He's logical and pro-town acting as either alignment, so I could go either way on him.

Firestarter: Town read, but marred by interactions with alexhans-scum. Today's lynch.

IVS: Hasn't done shit since he replaced in. No read.

millar13: Solid town read based on meta.

Sajin: Neutral, but leaning town.

Strangercoug: Holding judgement on him until later based on interactions with alexhans.

alexhans: Scum scum scum scum scum. See my last 3 posts (including this one) for reasons.

Kairyuu: So obvtown it hurts.

And where's everyone else?

QFT

this post discussion with kayr is boring and demoralizing me

So you've realized that you're scum and doomed to die?

Where are the replacements?

Another QFT

@all: In all likelyhood this will be my last post before deadline. I

really

need to study for my AP Gov exam tomorrow.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Possible V/LA next week. I'll tell you if I'll have access then.

[alexhans]

unfortunately, another long post for Kayriuu. It may be funny to follow the back and forth though so I encourage you to do it when you have the time and willingness to do so

I don't know what to do with you, seriously...

I have a brilliant idea. How about you admit you're scum and we can move on.

Has it ever occurred to you that you might be wrong?

Look, you're saying that if fire is scum then me defending him is scummy but then say that I'm scummy independently?

Strawman. Your defense of Firestarter is not even close to the only point in my case. You are

extremely

scummy regardless of Firestarter's flip.

lol. Look how you start adding adjectives to reinforce your case. Ad nauseam. Looks like you're even starting to believe it yourself... XD

It's a mess of contradictions since you first posted

Bullshit. I have given reasons for these so-called "contradictions."

Yeah right. Especially your thoughts on the triangle Fire-SC-Me and your reasons for voting him... Because he is the only possible lynch in your opinion, not because he is scum.

About my threat being stupid... I disagree. If someone hammers and then I'm dead you will have something to work with... Why did they kill me?

Let's analyze this little piece of WIFOM. If the person who hammers is scum, then they will have all of one person suspicious of them going into D2. That isn't all that worrying, and probably won't make you high on their kill priority list. However, if the hammerer is town, then the scum could frame said hammerer by killing you, and then bringing this up D2. Mob mentality could possibly kick in, and suddenly there's a wagon on the hammer vote because you died. Second scenerio is much more likely than first.

So I can't ask other people to not hammer because they will kill me, but that would be useless info... All night info is subject to WIFOM. It's up to the town to decide if there's scum pushing conveniently a waggon. That's what the whole game is about, Not just this scenario. And if a town player hammers before someone adds to the conversation is just anti-town. He should let replacements have their say.

Except that you know who you are replacing, and any comments about this person will skew your objectivity. Trust me, there has been at least one thread in Mafia Discussion on this topic. If you were following the game before you requested to replace then you would have this edge you talk about, but this is not the case. Can we drop this bit?

ACtually, I think I commented in that topic. So you can see my thoughts over there too. But we can drop it. By understanding my logic you can gain a better understanding of my thought processes and my actions that you may think are scummy and realize theyre not.

Not what I am saying. Strangercoug said that you looked afraid regarding the Fire lynch, and while you were saying that he was wrong (i.e. that you were not afraid) you said that you feared a Fire lynch, which is EXACTLY what you were trying to deny.

Glad you made it clearer. Wrong. He said...

Excuse me, but, uh... "smart mislynch"? The only way I'm making sense of this is if you know Firestarter to be town, which is impossible in a day start unless you're scum.

I said:

Oh...
and:

already

afraid

that there is gonna be a smart myslinch

The only way I'm making sense of this is if you know Firestarter to be town, which is impossible in a day start unless you're scum.

Notice the afraid? You're stretching. I never said he was town. I just had that fear. A quicklynch can be disastrous and after your vote on page 6 it sure seemed going that way.

So the one that brought up the "afraid" issue was me. Because I was afraid of a mislynch before I could even post my thoughts. SC says that the more important word is "smart".
Therefore this whole point of yours is null.

You repeated a previous point, which I had already addressed. I'm not gonna get into a "no, you're wrong" battle with you about that. Are you even looking at what I was addressing, or just arguing for the sake of arguing?

This exactly what you're doing. No matter what do I write you'll find a way to say no to it or make it look like Im wrong or scummy.

In fact, you look pretty set. I'm wondering if it is because I repeatedly demanded that you state your case and you got pissed.

Of course I'm "set." I'm always "set." Attitude is a big part of the mind-game that it Mafia, and acting totally convinced at all times is quite effective at outing jumpy scum.

Yeah... acting totally convinced is usually useful for scum to sell fake cases. Anyway, if you'rer too set and have too much pride you'll end up believing you're right no matter what and dismiss any future evidence you might find against your "truth".

You are currently shining strong and bright on my scumdar. until someone takes your place I will push and prod and pressure you until you break, like you are showing signs of doing right now with your "oh, you shouldn't only attack me. You should spread out your suspicion so that I don't get so worried about your attacks."

That's breaking under pressure? No, that's trying to throw some sense into you and resisting the urge to call you either stubborn or scum (because they way in wich you pursue your case follows that patterns). Because right now, if you're town, you're not helping anybody by only looking at me and perpetuing this whole nitpick discussion. I'll continue to answer because I'm the accussed and will post as much as it's necessary (trying to always be clear) to try to explain why a case against me might be flawed.

Ok. I'm checking this in your meta. I just didn't like it one bit.

It is evident by the beginning of your post that you already did, and found out I was telling the truth.

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier. You try to make me look bad with an obvious thing that I knew and told. I meta'd you a bit. I said what I thought BEFORE I wrote this. Despite the meta read I still don't like the way you posted so fast that people were scum without explaining (especially saying, too many things too count).

Well then your "main case" was hidden amongst attacks on everyone else on the Fire wagon. Are you trying to say that there are 6 scum in this game?

HELLO!!! Look at el puma! Yoour first post acccused like 6 people too. I investigate as much as possible, as I said to Korlash before, I don't necessarily find people scummy. I just want to clear a few things and understand them, and see if there's something that doesn't add up.

No... But you're just calling my cases crap in general, and that I'm a hypocryte, and my posts are bullshit... I can't answer to that.

Yes you can, and you have been. As I mentioned above. Mafia is a mind game. My attitude elicits reactions that are just as helpful as the reactions and responses to my words.

So you're entitled to being anti-town to get reactions? That looks like Empking's or Wall-e's playstyle. Not cool.

And what's more, I wouldn't get a useful answer from you (to determin your alignment).

All that means is that you haven't figured out how to use responses gathered that way to their fullest.

maybe so... We'll find if you're that good as you think you are at the endgame.

YOU CALLED MY CASE CRAP! And you say Im not the Grand Arbiter of Votes?

Yes. That is exactly what I said.

*sigh*, then you're clearly not making sense. What works for you can't work for me in your opinion. Definetly flawed thinking to find scum.

What gives YOU the right to call my case crap without even explaining?

I already told you, because I'm the Grand Arbiter of Votes. You're fun to screw around with.

Well... ... ... Really, I don't know what to say. If this is fun then it's very useful for winning the game... there are other, not so detrimental ways, to have fun.

Wrong. I can see where someone makes valid points. For example millar's point about me writing everyone instead of just 2 is valid. I usually generalize and say everyone too much but it was a good point anyway. Your points are not like that.

Considering that you have not defended well against

any

of the points I brought against you, I say you're caught scum who just realized the extent of the case against him.

I consider this is just BS. I havent defended well? That's your f/%&/, unsupported, grudgy, opinion. EXTENT OF THE CASE AGAINST ME??? Dude! Your "case" sucks! There, I said it. Try to re-read everything you've been posting with a clear mind. I just hoped to be able to talk some sense in to you but you were annoyed by my wanting you to post a case and when you finally did your pride won't let you realize any mistake you make.

Following your thoughts I'd have to be really stupid because when they finally lynched Fire (As it looks like is gonna happen) I would be under obvious scrutiny...

And you would also be able to pull this exact same card out in your defense. My point stands.

Now you're the one WIFOMing... Think about what's more likely. Me entering the game fully and being active and trying to do what I think is the right thing or me entering softly, tasting the air, seeing what I can push without having problems, perhaps jump in the main waggon. One is probably town, the other is definetly scummy. It doesn't make sense to be THAT active as scum. You could probably drop a scum tell.

If I were scum I would rather buss him to shove of suspicion from myself

I doubt that. Late bussing is noticed more often than not, and you would have this card to pull if he was lynched as scum and you defended him.

I would never expect to be clear of scrutiny if Fire is town. But IMO bussing or just letting him die would be so much easier. I don't care if you doubt it too. It's my opinion. And you don't know me.

Am I not defending myself?

Your "defense" is acting incredulous that we would suspect you of doing something like this. It is not true defense.

I've defended against all you said. I've responded to every thing you asked me that you pretended that made me look scummy. But now you're saying I was just acting incredulous and that's not a true defense? You answered every response I made and didnt see a defense there.
You're so lame. According to you... I don't have a defense. I don't have a case. Do I even exist? You suck dude. You just dismiss everything in the view that that will make you right... Guess what? It doesn't.

How am I supposed to defend in your opinion? Insult you and say your case is crap or what?

You could try that. Or you could try providing logical reasons for why you would freak out at a potential lynch, and then attack literally everyone on the wagon. (Hint: There is no good reason why someone would do that as town).

WTF man. I did provide reasons why I was afraid of a mislynch. It's even a reason in itself. I investigated all the people I could. And your hint is stupid because you're saying that there's no possible defense to your case in your own eyes...

But, unfortunately you think that I'm scum therefore he is scum so you vote him? Why not vote me in that case? Just because his waggon is bigger?

Yes, with the added condition that deadline is so close so voting you would be wasting my vote, whereas voting him is useful.

Wasting your vote? He will be lynched anyway... you don't make sense. There's no danger of a mislynch so your excuse of voting him is not enough, specially, when you've stated that you think him to be town.

this post discussion with kayr is boring and demoralizing me

So you've realized that you're scum and doomed to die?

Not really. I'm just dissapoited that someone can be such a prideful stubborn. I'm in no way afraid of you. I just think you have been attacking me with the lamest case I've ever responded to and you don't wanna hear any reasons. So, if your scum I don't have a problem with it but if you're town you're being silly for being so wrong and not wanting to see any reason that might indicate your mistakes.

@all: In all likelyhood this will be my last post before deadline. I

really

need to study for my AP Gov exam tomorrow.

Thank God. I was expecting another dismissing of every sentence I wrote...

example:
Alexhans: Good Morning
Kayriuu: No, your's is good morning here it is noon. SCUM!

[Kairyuu]

-insert increasingly massive post as to why your points don't make sense and you're scummy as hell-

Mmk. After all of that friendly banter, I have come to a conclusion.

alexhans is town. My case was meh. Could be good, could be bad. I was mainly attempting to get his ire up. If he was scum, he would have been able to find several excuses to vote me for those posts, but he didn't. The obvious reason for that is because he genuinly doesn't find me scummy, just overconfident, and therefore anti-town.

My current read of alexhans is that, while his arguments are not that great, and he delves into WIFOM more than strictly necessary, he has pro-town motivations, and actually seems to be scumhunting.

What does that mean for the rest of my reads? Nothing for anyone except for Firestarter and Strangercoug. I will stand by my read of Firestarter. He is very likely to be town. However, my point about him being the only feasible lynch for today still stands. There is no way to shift the wagon in the remaining 24 hours of D1, so I'm not even gonna try.

And Strangercoug. Strangercoug walked straight down the path I would expect him to as scum. He latched right onto my case and pushed at alexhans just as I was. This is an exemplification of the point I brought up earlier of him being far too appeasing to vocal players in this game. Strangercoug is scum.