Mini 686 - Chess Mafia (Done)

[Lawrencelot]

Move: Be2

[Wall-E]

I am of the opinion that this game is completely awesome, and everyone playing (including the mod) is rad to the max.

[MafiaSSK]

I am of the opinion that this game is completely awesome, and everyone playing (including the mod) is rad to the max.

<3

[veerus]

Perhaps Wall-E would like to replace some of the less active players here?...

Anyway, to the people voting Re1, what will your response be to ...Rc8? Our best reply to that before was c3 however that is no longer an option.

[SensFan]

Really sorry guys, I completely forgot about this game.

[Indigo Heron]

Anyway, to the people voting Re1, what will your response be to ...Rc8? Our best reply to that before was c3 however that is no longer an option.

Then Rxe4, and Black might as well resign.

[Goatrevolt]

Anyway, to the people voting Re1, what will your response be to ...Rc8? Our best reply to that before was c3 however that is no longer an option.

Then Rxe4, and Black might as well resign.

Wow, I can't believe I missed that.

Unmove, Move Re1

[Lawrencelot]

Same here.

Unmove, Move Re1

[Awesome Pants]

1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. f4 e6 4. Nf3 f5 5. exf5 exf5 6. Qe2 Be7 7. Nd5 Nb4 8. Nxb4 cxb4 9. d4 Nf6 10. Qc4 a6 11. Bd2 b5 12. Qd3 O-O 13. Qxf5 d5 14. Qd3 Ne4 15. g3 Bf5 16. Qb3 Nxd2 17. Kxd2 Be4 18. Re1

Night 18 begins!Actions ASAP

[Awesome Pants]

1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. f4 e6 4. Nf3 f5 5. exf5 exf5 6. Qe2 Be7 7. Nd5 Nb4 8. Nxb4 cxb4 9. d4 Nf6 10. Qc4 a6 11. Bd2 b5 12. Qd3 O-O 13. Qxf5 d5 14. Qd3 Ne4 15. g3 Bf5 16. Qb3 Nxd2 17. Kxd2 Be4 18. Re1 Kh8

Sorry, forgot about this game. Anyways, to make this game run a tiny bit quicker, you must make a lynch and a chess move this day.

[sirdanilot]

Sorry, forgot about this game. Anyways, to make this game run a tiny bit quicker, you must make a lynch and a chess move this day.

No. You can't simply change the rules (which weren't originally yours in the first place) mid-game, in a fashion that strongly benefits one alignment over the other. You just can't.

You agreed to mod this game (which has absolutely horrible rule set. and I mean HORRIBLE) which has been a great disappointment (at least to me) and is taking like forever. if you are fed up with it, then be my guest and abandon it or something or find someone else to replace you or simply continue as we're doing now which is like a Tantalus torture. The only reason I am continuing this misery myself is an ethical one. I hope I will never experience such a long winded and unenjoyable game ever again.

I would almost say 'lynch me and put me out of this misery' if it weren't for the fact that I am town and if somehow people approve of this nonsense then sure, there's 37 pages to scumhunt from! Be my guest. It'd be better to at least lynch a mafia. but we shouldn't lynch now I think, and the MOD shouldn't be favouring another alignment.

[Goatrevolt]

Sorry, forgot about this game. Anyways, to make this game run a tiny bit quicker, you must make a lynch and a chess move this day.

Ok...why now? I really dislike a rule swap mid game, especially since this one seems strictly beneficial to scum.

[Goatrevolt]

I disagree that this game is torture. It hasn't been crazy amounts of fun, but I like the concept, and want it to succeed for that reason alone. I do agree, though, that the game loses redeeming qualities when the rules change midway through.

[Max]

Personally I agree with the rule change, though it benefits scum this game is really not mafia when you only do one. If there wasn't a clause saying you could change rules then obviously don't but as a moderator I always allow myself to change rules if the game needs it. Imho this game most definitely needs it.

[Lawrencelot]

How does that rule change benefit anyone but scum? That includes the mod and the game itself. It won't make the game run quicker. I also disagree that this change is needed. The only rule change I would agree to is something like a chess clock system. That is something that would make things go faster while still keep it interesting, but it should also not benefit scum more than town.

I'm not lynching anyone. I'd sooner replace out for the first time in my mafia scum career.

(Max your post is scummy as hell btw.)

[sirdanilot]

I am considering replacing out if the mod follows through with this. At least I will be able to put 'replaced out due to incompetent moderation (random mid-game rule change benefiting a certain alignment)'

I disagree that this game is torture. It hasn't been crazy amounts of fun, but I like the concept, and want it to succeed for that reason alone. I do agree, though, that the game loses redeeming qualities when the rules change midway through.

The game wasn't well designed. It should have had some sort of chess clock system. You cannot simply introduce one now mid game IMO. The concept sucks, and for purely ethical reasons we should deal with it.

I have some options. Maybe we should vote for this.

1. Game abandon. Everyone agrees to abandon the game and let it die.
2. Draw. We'll probably have to do this through the mod to avoid outing scum. Everyone sends in if they want a draw or not, and maybe the conclusion will be to end this misery.

I'd go for a draw at this juncture.

[Abstract Actuary]

I've been waiting well over a week to say this . . .

Anyway, to the people voting Re1, what will your response be to ...Rc8? Our best reply to that before was c3 however that is no longer an option.

Then Rxe4, and Black might as well resign.

I absolutely CAN NOT BELIEVE that this post was made. It was not an obvious tactic at all and I missed it the first time through as did a bunch of other players. With the mistakes that Black has made, they were very likely to miss that pin and hang that piece. Why would you make this post?

It isn't like we were having a heated debate between the played move and another candidate. This move was going to go through and a vague safe response would have sufficed to his question. Instead you made a post that only helped scum. And at that, it only helped scum if you were town, so you can't even get a scum read from it.


As it currently stands, I am of the opinion that you can't change the rules of the game mid-game. And as others have said this clearly benefits scum. Although the rules clearly benefit town, since we have sole control over when deaths occur. Still, I am against a midgame rule change and I don't want to abandon this game or draw. I want to simply play out the chess/mafia game.

Scum is free to resign. Or, in lieu of resigning, try some crazy chess/mafia gambit where they claim something ridiculous to try to get us to start lynching people.

Once we get to lynchings or if the game ends, I would be interested to see if I (or any of us) could pinpoint scum by rereading the current chess discussion.

[Abstract Actuary]

Back to the chess game. Now, since the hanging bishop tactic didn't work, we are back to where I said we were before the last move. Our top priority is to get out of the pin/protect our knight. I like Bg2 or even Bh3, followed by moving the h rook.

See below for my thoughts before the most recent move. With our rook on e1, I like Be2 less than I did before, since it further cramps our pieces.

Re1 seems ok, but it doesn't address our weak and attacked knight or the pin of the knight on the rook. It is true that neither of those is an immediate threat, but it is a danger and weakness in our position.

Not a current threat: We have no reason to move our knight, it is currently protected and they have no way to immediately attack it again.

But, long term danger: If they can get pressure on our knight before we protect it again or break the pin, we could lose material.

So I think it is in our best interest to work towards breaking the pin and/or protecting the knight.

Options:
Bg2 - strengths: breaks pin on rook and protects knight; weaknesses: weak diagonal for the bishop and creates pin on currently unprotected bishop.
Be2 - strengths: protects knight, connects rook, frees h1 rook to move away from pin; weaknesses: does not break pin.
h4,Rh2,Rf2/e2 - strengths: begins advancing pawns for kingside attack, frees rook to second row, to allow to break pin and more easily double rooks; weaknesses: takes a long time, weakens pawn structure

As I said earlier, they can't immediately attack our knight, but they can add pressure quickly. They are two queen moves away from adding a second attacker and they could also play the risky, yet pressureful g5.

Before hearing any response, I'm leaning towards Bg2 or Be2 followed by Rf1

[Max]

How does that rule change benefit anyone but scum? That includes the mod and the game itself. It won't make the game run quicker. I also disagree that this change is needed. The only rule change I would agree to is something like a chess clock system. That is something that would make things go faster while still keep it interesting, but it should also not benefit scum more than town.

I'm not lynching anyone. I'd sooner replace out for the first time in my mafia scum career.

(Max your post is scummy as hell btw.)

If there aren't any lynches I don't see how you can call this game mafia, it has an informed minority and an uninformed majority but there is little/no mafia theme to this, I would rather we use the information that we have found over the past 18 Days to find which moves benefit scum and which don't, and by that find who's been corrupting town the most

[MafiaSSK]

Fine. I suppose I didn't fully think it through. Rule change revoked.

[veerus]

AA, personally, I can't believe I missed that move. Goat seems to have missed it as well. Perhaps, in hindsight, pointing it out wasn't the best thing but I think that sends some major pro-town vibes. I do think that it's quite scummy of Goat/Lawrence to QUICKLY hammer the move that would hang the bishop ONLY IF black didn't see it. But since it was explained and revealed, the purpose and the element of surprise of Re1 was gone and it was obviously the lesser move at that point.

I personally have some notes of some scummy things that I noticed both Goat & Lawrence do in the past and this just adds to the pile... So,

vote: Lawrencelot

(I have more notes against him)

fos: Goatrevolt

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Anyway, I still like Qe3.. Bg2 isn't too terrible either..

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As for rule changes, I think the only thing this game suffers from is extended days with little activity. Here's what I was thinking we should do (and what I would do if I ran a chess mafia game like this). Add time control deadlines with bonuses for making moves quickly. Something like this:
- each day lasts 14 days
- for each move that is made before the deadline, add the # of left-over days to the next day's deadline (so if a move is made in 10 days, next move's deadline is in 18 days)
- max for this roll-over should be somewhere between 20 and 25 days
- mod needs to not forget about the game

[Goatrevolt]

AA, personally, I can't believe I missed that move. Goat seems to have missed it as well. Perhaps, in hindsight, pointing it out wasn't the best thing but I think that sends some major pro-town vibes. I do think that it's quite scummy of Goat/Lawrence to QUICKLY hammer the move that would hang the bishop ONLY IF black didn't see it. But since it was explained and revealed, the purpose and the element of surprise of Re1 was gone and it was obviously the lesser move at that point.

I personally have some notes of some scummy things that I noticed both Goat & Lawrence do in the past and this just adds to the pile

Wrong. It was the best move at that point, even if black knew about it. We forced black into moving...Kh8 while we developed a rook. If you're going to FoS me under the idea that I'm scum quick-hammering a subpar move, then I expect you to give some reasons as to why it was subpar. It was by far the best move at that point. I'd love to hear you explain why I'm wrong.

I don't see Indigo explaining the merits of Re1 to be much of a tell. Actually I'd lean slightly more toward it being a scum tell. That move was probably going to go through, despite how oblivious a lot of us were. Explaining it as town gives black the solution, but ensures the move is made. Explaining it as scum muddies the waters of who would be capable of making that play as black. The scum motivation seems slightly more likely than the town one.

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Our move today needs to be either Qe3 or Re3. We need to make a move that allows us to play Bd3 next, otherwise Black moves Rc8 and we have to waste a move by moving our rook back to c1. I think that Qe3 is better than Re3.

Move Qe3

[Goatrevolt]

However, now that I think about it, Indigo being early on the wagon for Re1 is a town tell. I can't imagine scum wanted that move to go through.

[veerus]

Here's why:

So Qe3 looks better than Re1, then.

Since Re1 would DEFINITELY not work due to black knowing the danger behind that move, it was a subpar move compared to Qe3, even by your own admission.

[Goatrevolt]

Here's why:

So Qe3 looks better than Re1, then.

Since Re1 would DEFINITELY not work due to black knowing the danger behind that move, it was a subpar move compared to Qe3, even by your own admission.

No. That's wrong. Just because black knows the threat doesn't make it less of a threat. We get a free move in Re1, it would be dumb not to take it.