MKM II GAME OVER

[Kast]

@Tajo-
-I think you are probably protown and your decision to push for the item claiming and force it through seems earnest.

I didn't like your attitude towards semioldguy testing your item knowledge. I think he had valid points and valid reason to doubt you. Once you finally showed that you did have knowledge of the items, he acknowledged that.

Overall a pro-town read, but tainted by what I see as a childish reaction.

-I have a positive impression of the other three because I felt they were being both earnest and very rational.

Visible Votecount

-sirdanilot (1): Gorrad
-Looker (1): populartajo

Not voting (14): killa seven, Kast, ZEEnon, Riceballtail, Looker, sirdanilot, Moratorium, ortolan, semioldguy, WeyounsLastClone, zwetschenwasser, Empking, caf19, AceMarksman

With 16 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[Moratorium]

The red shell costs 2 more coins than the green shell.

qwints, Yoshi (Mushroom Kingdom), killed Night 1.

Problem.

Indeed. What was the question that qwints answered?

First question of the night.

Drumroll

qwints, out of these two items: green shell and red shell, which costs more and by how?

[populartajo]

@Tajo-
-I think you are probably protown and your decision to push for the item claiming and force it through seems earnest.

I didn't like your attitude towards semioldguy testing your item knowledge. I think he had valid points and valid reason to doubt you. Once you finally showed that you did have knowledge of the items, he acknowledged that.

Overall a pro-town read, but tainted by what I see as a childish reaction.

-I have a positive impression of the other three because I felt they were being both earnest and very rational.

Can you explain why did you find out ortolan very rational?

[populartajo]

The red shell costs 2 more coins than the green shell.

qwints, Yoshi (Mushroom Kingdom), killed Night 1.

Problem.

Indeed. What was the question that qwints answered?

First question of the night.

Drumroll

qwints, out of these two items: green shell and red shell, which costs more and by how?

Arg. This implies that scum do have item descriptions but then why did SK didnt claim he had them?

[Moratorium]

Oh yeah.

Those that played in the original. What Mushroom Kingdom characters died? Was Yoshi one of them?

Dead (11):
-Rogue Shenanigans, Donkey Kong (DK crew), lynched Day 1 (page 38)
-populartajo, Toad (Mushroom Kingdom), killed Night 1 (page 38)
-mr. incrediball, Wario (WarioWare, Inc.), lynched Day 2 (page 65/66)
-armlx, Baby Bowser (Bowser's Army), killed Night 2 (page 66)
-Korts DragonsofSummer , Koopa Troopa (Bowser's army), lynched Day 3 (page 88)
-Faerilord, Daisy (Mushroom Kingdom), kidnapped Night 2 (page 66) and killed Day 3 (page 88), won the game
-iamausername, Drybones (Bowser's army), killed Night 3 (page 88)
-TheSweatpantsNinja, Toad (Mushroom Kingdom), killed Night 3 (page 88), won the game
-Alabaska J, Bowser (Bowser's army), lynched Day 4 (page 107)
-mnowax, Toad (Mushroom Kingdom), killed Night 4 (page 107), won the game
-Natirasha, Toad (Mushroom Kingdom), killed Night 4 (page 107), won the game
-skitzer, Parakoopa (Bowser's Army), killed Night 4 (page 107), won the game

[Moratorium]

Alive (13):
-forbiddanlight Syzygy sideney : Luigi, survived and won the game
-somestrangeflea: Princess Peach, survived and won the game
-Surye: Lakitu, survived and won the game
-killa seven: Toadsworth, survived and won the game
-Gremwell Celebloki : Mario, survived and won the game
-farside22: Toad, survived and won the game
-ting =) andersonw MafiaSSK : Toad, survived and won the game
-DarlaBlueEyes malthusis alvinz95 : Toad, survived and won the game
-Lord Gurgi Gimbo : Toad, survived and won the game
-Cream147: Toad, survived and won the game
-Riceballtail:

Yoshi

, survived and won the game
-Dasquian ashmite84 Pepsidude : Toad, survived and won the game
-populartajo, killed Night 1, revived Day 1 (page 42): Toad, survived and won the game

[Gorrad]

Vote: Sirdanilot

Why are you now in this game? Tell the truth or die.

He prob doesnt know it.

Don't answer for him. He knows it. And he will tell the truth or die.

[Moratorium]

Something else that needs to be addressed:

- No one from Bowser's Army died last night.
- Someone from Mushroom Kingdom died last night.

Three possibilities that I can see:

1) qwints was nightkilled by his own faction. Implausible gambit at this stage, but the gambit would be the scum attempting to spread confusion about the makeup of the game and the various factions by sacrificing one of its own. 1/10.

2) Scum nightkill did not occur for one of many different reasons. qwints was killed by a non-scum entity. 6/10.

3) There is more than one uninformed faction in this game. 3/10.

[Gorrad]

Or hey, how about the fact that Castle folks win when all three non-Castle groups are dead? AKA three anti-town factions. AKA more than one anti-town NK.

Now be quiet, commenting on NKs is scummy. I'd vote for you if I wasn't voting for Sirdanilot. Backing up this is Bleach Mafia with Seraphim as well as Random Mafia 3 with UROE.

[Kast]

@Tajo-
-Also, it feels like you ignore or miss things that some players post/say.

FYI- My guess is that only some MK members are provided with the BA items and due to game starting in Day 1, they were probably unable to share that information with each other.

Can someone who was around for the start of this game confirm if that is possible/true/whatever?

Things I liked about Ort:
-Ort started off raising the point that a mass claim is specifically warned against in the rules.
-I think Ort raised valid points against mass claiming item knowledge; but when it was clear that the town was doing it despite any limitations, he did participate. He remained pretty consistent with his stated beliefs throughout the process.
-Ort is one of the few players who came up with valid reasons for voting SK. Later votes seemed very "me too"-ish. Ort's vote is also early enough that I don't think an SK lynch was a sure thing, so I find it much less likely to be bussing.
-Ort's analysis of items seems to make the most sense (or at least seems to be consistent), and in particular I thought the suggestion that he sends a letter to prove himself was ridiculous.

-Also, to clarify, I don't think that the item claiming itself was the best course of action for the town, but I think that Tajo was earnest in proposing it as a pro-town tool.

@Mora-
2 and 3 aren't mutually exclusive.

I don't know where you are getting your probabilities from, but I agree that qwints being killed by a non-MK group is likely.

I think it is likely there are more than 2 factions (I think there are probably 4 factions). If any other, non BA factions are also uninformed (plausible from flavor since everyone is in the dark) I think there must be some kind of numerical or item/ability advantage to balance things.

One more possibility that I see from flavor, there are many Mario enemies who are immune to Mario's conventional methods of killing them. It's possible that Yoshi was sent to do the MK nightkill but ended up running into an enemy who is immune to Yoshi's nightkill method and possibly kills the person who tries to kill him.

[Moratorium]

Now be quiet, commenting on NKs is scummy.

No, sorry, I don't abide by some code of MafiaScumdom that only allows me to discuss certain things at certain times and not other things at other times.

If you want to vote for me, please do.

===

Something else I wanted to mention,

Moratorium, ortolan, qwints, semioldguy, WeyounsLastClone, zwetschenwasser, Gorrad, Empking

Either one of these people (one of which is dead) has/had a doublevote, or there is a phantom vote that went on Shadow Knight.

Of interest, the Yoshi role in the first game was sort of a doublevoting role, in that he doubled the Mario role's vote, but Yoshi himself had no vote of his own. So if the role power is the same, qwints wasn't the doublevoter. No guarantees of this.

[Moratorium]

@Mora-
2 and 3 aren't mutually exclusive.

Agreed.

I don't know where you are getting your probabilities from...

Opinionated thin air.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Now be quiet, commenting on NKs is scummy.

If something strange happens during the night, why is it scummy to discuss it? I'll agree that overanalyzing and misinterpreting nightkills isn't very fruitful, but Moratorium makes a valid point that no one from Bowser's army was killed.

That said, maybe quints actually was Bowser's Army, but a special power made him look like Mushroom Kingdom (although his after death reaction would be a bit strange in that regard). It would also explain why qwints could answer an item question.

[Moratorium]

That said, maybe quints actually was Bowser's Army, but a special power made him look like Mushroom Kingdom (although his after death reaction would be a bit strange in that regard). It would also explain why qwints could answer an item question.

This is a Death Miller supposition.

[AceMarksman]

But qwint's "Bah, go mushroom kingdom" suggests he was, infact, a part of the mushroom kingdom. This is all very odd. I would also like to point your attention to this:

-mnowax, Toad (

Mushroom Kingdom

), killed Night 4 (page 107), won the game
-Natirasha, Toad (

Mushroom Kingdom

), killed Night 4 (page 107), won the game
-skitzer, Parakoopa (

Bowser's Army

), killed Night 4 (page 107), won the game

how did this happen?

[Moratorium]

It looks like a mistake by the mod. Skitzer lost.

[AceMarksman]

Oh. lol, that would make sense.

[Moratorium]

That said, maybe quints actually was Bowser's Army, but a special power made him look like Mushroom Kingdom (although his after death reaction would be a bit strange in that regard). It would also explain why qwints could answer an item question.

This is a Death Miller supposition.

Let me put this up just in case people are confused by seemingly pointless declarative statements.

A rather controversial twist is the Death Miller, whose alignment is shown as "guilty" by the Moderator upon death. This has been argued and discussed in Ethics Threads as a source of distrust in the Moderator, which most people feel should not be tolerated. Thus, the Death Miller is an extremely scarcely used role.

Ethics Thread

[Gorrad]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... highlight=
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... highlight=

The first one had Seraphim-scum lynched, the second had UROE-scum lynched. Both cases started with nightkill commentary, and in both games the scumminess of nightkill-commentary was brought up by yours truely. What does speculation gain? Nothing. What can it lose? An outted doctor.

[AceMarksman]

FoS: gorrad

While normally discussing NKs is scummy, here it's helping the town understand this game. I don't know why you're trying to dissuade us from this.

[Moratorium]

Then vote for me? If you think I'm scum, please explain your case on me.

You are telling me to shut up because I don't fit the mold of those two games you are patting yourself on the back for.

[Moratorium]

Or hey, how about the fact that Castle folks win when all three non-Castle groups are dead? AKA three anti-town factions.

AKA more than one anti-town NK.

Nevermind the hypocrisy.

[AceMarksman]

Vote: Gorrad

I think that's a fine place to have my vote at the moment.

[semioldguy]

I went backwards from qwints' answer to see which posts may have possibly helped him answer correctly, if any.

The red shell costs 2 more coins than the green shell.

Prices...may not be the best thing with which to test. After all, both teams have four items each. Pricing may well be the same.

This was all I found with a quick glance, and I highly doubt this would be true because based on rules post if this were true than a fire flower would cost more than a star. If they do the same or similar things as they did in MKM1, then this wouldn't really make sense.

[zwetschenwasser]

Vote: poptajo

Nightkill proves that yesterday was a calculated scum gambit.