Newbie 774 - Spegezzironi: Game Over! TOWN WINS!

[sekinj]

Day 2: Vote Count 13

(# of votes against) Voted Player - by Voter(s)

(2) ckool5000 - by SensFan; cpe

(1) Johoohno - by Rustythepirate

(0) cpe - by none

(0) semioldguy - by none

(0) Rustythepirate - by none

(0) SensFan - by none

(0) Sotty7 - by none

Not Voting: ckool5000; Johoohno; semioldguy; Sotty7

With seven (7) citizens alive it takes

four (4) votes to lynch.

Day 2 Deadline: 5/20/09 12:00 PM CST

Please PM me if I have missed anything.

[Rustythepirate]

Johoohno

, what is your opinion of cpe?
&

cpe

, what is your opinion of semioldguy?

[cpe]

What do I think of semioldguy? Hmm, I don't think we know very much, as we have very little of his to analyse. He replaced in at the end of day 1. We have the fact that he hammered someone who turned out to be town, but I think that a lot of people were thinking of hammering at that point. So, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. He was quick to say that Ckool5000 was probably town for not knowing the night kill, which could so easily have been an intentional step by a scum. But at the same time, it could have been an intentional step because it's a vaguely convincing idea.

Having said all this, I'm left not knowing what I think. Scum trying to support scum partner CKool5000 is an idea, though only if Ckool is indeed scum, and we don't know that yet. And even if Ckool is scum, this is still a flaky theory, maybe a 30% line or lower.

[Rustythepirate]

cpe, when you voted for SensFan yesterday, you stated this.

I agree on the suggestion of SensFan aggression, especially having been the target of it...

VOTE: SensFan

This suggests that the reason that you voted for him yesterday was for his aggressive playstyle. Why do you not think he is scummy any longer? Your case on a connection between Lamont_Cranston and SensFan does not seem to be the reason you voted for him, because you had acknowledged that it was unlikely before you voted.

[cpe]

I'm not quite sure of the logic I was using at the time, I think, having had Sens be aggressive towards me, in my opinion unjustly, I reacted badly and therefore decided he was scum. But now I thinking that I was just misreading his playstyle.

[Sotty7]

You don't normally like FOS's but you FOS LC here...? At this point you only had a random vote on Johoohno, why not just switch votes?

So your FOS of LC wasn't legitimate? Cause right now I don't see why you would “seriously” FOS someone while keeping a random vote on someone else.

I was playing to the irony of saying that I don't like FOS's and then FOSing, so yes it wasn't serious.

Hmm okay. The reason for the FOS felt serious to me at least.

If someone refuses to listen to someone attacking them, I find it to be a convenient way for scum to avoid attacks, and also a blatant appeal to emotion/inexperience. And this isn't simply an attempt to make LC look more suspicious - I've done this in other previous games and I still believe it.

Which games?

I've been pretty busy so the time between I voted Johoohno and when I explain it was a little longer than I desired, but still, I don't believe that one has to immediately explain when one votes for someone. The content-less vote can provide reactions from players that can be useful, and I was always going to explain it anyway.

Have you done this before in other games or are you just latching on/following Sensfan and his reasoning?

Johoohno reads scummy to me. He is asking questions to appear pro-town but don't actually help the town or have any content. This appears as a scum tactic from experienced players I've seen - ask questions and appear helpful without actually helping the town in your questions and avoiding suspicion. Also, when he criticizes semioldguy, he does it in a way that includes a qualifier that allows him to slightly attack someone without committing to it. This allows him to cast suspicion on multiple players without having to take the responsibility for it. I agree with Sotty7 in that the attack on semioldguy is hypocritical.

Fair enough. I agree with this.

The saying he didn't know the night kill seemed like a scum tell to me. I'm not intentionally following Sense, I just agree with him...

How is that a scum tell? Basically you can't just go around calling things scum tells without explaining

why

they are scum tells.

I had my reasons: L_C was the most suspicious one to me, and since the town was pretty much united I felt that it couldn’t be fuelled only by scum, and it happens that towns don't really dare to lynch in the end due to the risk of a mislynch and a no-lynch isn't the play D1, therefore I wanted town to know that I would be willing to hold the hammer. Furthermore my volunteering might have sparked some reactions to interpret (it also did so to some extent, sotty7 got uncertain and unvoted. I find it a bit scummy).

Seeing as it was a hammer vote you should have explained this

before

you stated willingness to hammer. Your post being so eager to hammer was a huge factor in my unvote because I didn't want

you

to hammer. I was finding you scummy. Another factor was me being somewhat behind in the game and wanting to catch up.

Is there a reason for you to skip my EBWOP right after the one you quoted?

I guess you have a point here, I guess it didn't register for me. Point withdrawn.

Ranking of players from most scummy to least scummy:
Lamont_Cranston
ckool5000
SensFan
Johoohno
cpe
Rustythepirate
Sotty7
muzzz

Why do you think it's a good idea to rank players like this?

Because I've seen it requested and done before, as well as having done so myself as a replacement in another game, without it having met with negative criticism just for posting it.

There is one thing to list your scum suspects in order of suspicions but it is

quite

another to list the whole town like this. For one, if your not scum, it will give the scum an insane amount of information. If everyone lists the town in this manner then they will be able to see which townies would be hard to get lynched and plan their night kills accordingly. It enables them to plan around and not try and launch a wagon on a player that most of the town find the least suspicious.

I'm all for scum suspect lists, but I refuse to list the whole town in this manner.

My top three scum suspects right now are Johoohno, ckool and Rusty. That said Rusty pulling up cpe's change of heart surrounding Sens and cpe's backtracking around that is scummy to me. So I would say Rusty and cpe are interchangeable.

[Rustythepirate]

Hmm okay. The reason for the FOS felt serious to me at least.

I should clarify. I still thought he was suspicious, but I just threw the FOS on there for show.

Which games?

Newbie 741

PhilyEc, the second you start ignoring another player is the second I vote for you. No matter what else I think of you, if you intentionally ignore another player, I will vote for you on principle and as an obvious scumtell. So keep cranking out those answers.

I think I've said it in other games as well, but I couldn't find it when I looked. Either way, the above quote should be pretty telling.

Have you done this before in other games or are you just latching on/following Sensfan and his reasoning?

Neither, I've played only a few games and this is the first in which I've done it. This is because this is the first game that I've started - the rest I have replaced, so it was already far enough into the game that it would either have no positive effect or be dangerous. And to the second part of you question, no, unless "following" is agreeing. Also worth noting is that he did a contentless vote directly after me, not vice versa. Of course he did this the day before, but I still maintain that I simply agree with his reasoning, not that my reasoning is based off of his. I've seen it done by town in other games, and ones I've been in as well.

That said Rusty pulling up cpe's change of heart surrounding Sens and cpe's backtracking around that is scummy to me.

How so?

[Sotty7]

I guess I am just trying to establish some kind of meta for you Rusty. You are right Sens posted his no reason vote after you, but what caught my eye is how you pretty much echoed his belief. Although this is a some what acceptable mode of play, I still had to question you on it.

That said Rusty pulling up cpe's change of heart surrounding Sens and cpe's backtracking around that is scummy to me.

How so?

Because cpe is trying to distance himself from the whole mini Sens wagon on day one. I don't know why he would do that at this point. If he truly found aggressive people scummy then that shouldn't change today. His backtrack makes it feel like he was just trying to wagon Sens for the hell of it.

[cpe]

I wasn't trying to wagon Sens for the hell of it.

I read his aggressive play as being scummy, but thinking more logically, I no longer think it necessarily is scummy at all. And think it was quite wrong of me to suggest a Sens lynch.

Remember I'm new to mafia...

[semioldguy]

Ranking of players from most scummy to least scummy:
Lamont_Cranston
ckool5000
SensFan
Johoohno
cpe
Rustythepirate
Sotty7
muzzz

Why do you think it's a good idea to rank players like this?

Because I've seen it requested and done before, as well as having done so myself as a replacement in another game, without it having met with negative criticism just for posting it.

There is one thing to list your scum suspects in order of suspicions but it is

quite

another to list the whole town like this. For one, if your not scum, it will give the scum an insane amount of information. If everyone lists the town in this manner then they will be able to see which townies would be hard to get lynched and plan their night kills accordingly. It enables them to plan around and not try and launch a wagon on a player that most of the town find the least suspicious.

I'm all for scum suspect lists, but I refuse to list the whole town in this manner.

That makes sense, though I'm curious as to why no one brought it up or put it that way before in other games.

[ckool5000]

[quote=Sotty7]
There is one thing to list your scum suspects in order of suspicions but it is

quite

another to list the whole town like this. For one, if your not scum, it will give the scum an insane amount of information. If everyone lists the town in this manner then they will be able to see which townies would be hard to get lynched and plan their night kills accordingly. It enables them to plan around and not try and launch a wagon on a player that most of the town find the least suspicious.
[/quote]

Wow... I've never thought of that... You've got some great thinking, and I should remember this for future games... But, like semioldguy said, hardly anyone brings it up, so you could possibly be scum, since then you'd be more likely to see things from a scum's point of view... Because you'd be scum... Plus, every other post you've made in this thread has either reflected neutral or slightly town on me.

This reasoning isn't worth a FoS to you, or even a PoS, but now I'm keeping a closer watch on your posts [insert scary music here].

[Rustythepirate]

He's got some great thinking, but he's suspicious for it?

[ckool5000]

I mean that since he was able to think from the scum's point of view, he might be one too... Although, now that I think about it, that does sound kind of... not exactly super suspicious. But that's why I said it wasn't even worth a PoS...

[Johoohno]

I've been busy. A more substantial post than this will appear during this weekend.

[semioldguy]

You don't normally like FOS's but you FOS LC here...? At this point you only had a random vote on Johoohno, why not just switch votes?

So your FOS of LC wasn't legitimate? Cause right now I don't see why you would “seriously” FOS someone while keeping a random vote on someone else.

I was playing to the irony of saying that I don't like FOS's and then FOSing, so yes it wasn't serious.

Hmm okay. The reason for the FOS felt serious to me at least.

I should clarify. I still thought he was suspicious, but I just threw the FOS on there for show.

Why would you throw it on there for "show" when in the same post you mention not liking FoS's? Also why originally answer that it wasn't serious, and then turn around to say that you were indeed suspicious of him?

Yesterday you were putting considerable pressure on Lamont_Cranston, up until the point where he was voted to L-1 the first time. I find it odd that after he was put to L-1 you were quiet, until Sotty7 unvoted putting him back at L-2 which is when you started to press the case a little more again against him. When ckool5000 voted him to L-1 once more you were quiet again, or didn't press nearly as hard in the L-1 situation as you did previously for most of the rest of the day. It looks to me like you were aiming for an active role in getting him lynched but didn't want to be a prominent player in the arguments against him when the lynch happened. If you were suspicious of him, why was there the need to ease up on the pressuring at L-1?

Vote: Rustythepirate

(Also guys... Sotty7 is a she)

[Rustythepirate]

That's the point, the "show" was the irony of saying I didn't like FOS's and then FOS'ing. It's like if I were to say I didn't like random voters while random voting myself - a joke. The suspicion was genuine.

Your next attack on me is bogus and I will tell you why.

I find it odd that after he was put to L-1 you were quiet, until Sotty7 unvoted putting him back at L-2 which is when you started to press the case a little more again against him.

Lamont_Cranston was put at L-1 for the first time by SensFan on April 23, 8:33 am. He was unvoted by Sotty7 at April 23, 11:44 am. You are saying that the fact that I didn't post for those three hours is suspicious.

I repeat - you are saying that the fact that I didn't post for a period of

three hours

on a game of

online mafia

is suspicious. Do you want me to explain why this is ridiculous, or can I assume it's so obvious that I don't have to explain why?

When ckool5000 voted him to L-1 once more you were quiet again, or didn't press nearly as hard in the L-1 situation as you did previously for most of the rest of the day.

Wrong. Posts 219 and 247. You hammered shortly after that.

[semioldguy]

I looked back at the time stamps, and you are right about the short few hours that you wouldn't have been likely to post. I didn't notice that as little time has passed as had and I retract that remark.

However, I am going to stand by my opinion that you had been pressuring Lamont_Cranston much less with your last two posts of the day. In reading the posts it feels like a lot less pressure that you are placing toward him than previous accusatory posts from you toward him in the day. I did see 219 and 247, but I didn't feel that those were as strong in pushing him as a target when compared to some of your earlier posts.

[Rustythepirate]

Bah. That's weak and you know it. The second part of your argument was mostly dependent on the first, so now that the first is gone the second is weak by comparison.

If the posts were smaller, that doesn't mean they were weaker. You can make a stronger point in one simple concise sentence than a whole paragraph of observation.

[ckool5000]

To me, it seems like Rusty was pushing Lamont being scum a little less in posts 219 and 247. Like semioldguy said, he wasn't pushing Lamont as a target as much in those posts, not to mention the space between the posts being the same as before, with less post content.
Of course, Lamont was already targeted, so all Rusty needed to do to push the Lamont lynch was to question what Lamont was saying, to find a hole in his opinions, etc.
And Rusty made some good points with those posts...

[Rustythepirate]

semioldguy, I think you should hold SensFan to the same standard as myself if you want to criticize me for having less words while he was at L-1 the second time. He posted even less than me after he put him at L-1, saying he supported a lynch. I don't think he is suspicious for this, but if you think I'm suspicious for this you should suspect him too. Why the different standards?

If Day 1 had gone on longer and I had stopped attacking him for a longer period of time, you may have a case, but I attacked him on the same day that you hammered - you don't really have a case on me trying to distance myself from the responsibility of the lynch. Especially when I said the day of the lynch...

Generally whenever someone decides to stop talking to someone completely in a game I vote for them as it's a scum-tell to me.

Speaking of SensFan, the last time he posted was five days ago.

[Rustythepirate]

Nevermind, I should have checked his signature.

[Johoohno]

Johoohno

, what is your opinion of cpe?

He feels like a newbie to me, his eagerness to get to night quickly (as I interpret it in the beginning of D1) was something I also showed in my first game, because I wanted more hard facts to crunch from having had one night. As you saw on my scum list, he is not one of my top three suspects.

[Johoohno]

Also: I'm a page and a half back yet, and I don't have the time right now to get up to date with everything. I'm hoping for the coming week to lend me more time for this game, but I'm not certain it will (though after that things should clear up a bit).

[SensFan]

I was gone this weekend (as the sig said).

Catching up, then will post later.

[SensFan]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of semioldguy's attack on Rusty.

Unvote, Vote: semi