Mini 765 - Welcome to Hambargarville GAME OVER!!

[Ojanen]

Ojanen, don't fall for that shit. I fully support you hammering Wall-E. His lynch is certainly is better than a no lynch. The only alternative I could see is Jase and creating a wagon on an absent player at deadline is generally a good idea.

You're right. Purely stupid of me to fret like that.
Umm, did you mean to write "is generally NOT a good idea", don't get that othewise with claims and such?

[Ojanen]

It doesn't make any sense if the "not" wasn't forgotten and I'm substracting this waiting time from my sleep.
Hammer.

vote: Wall-E

[qwints]

Yes, I meant to to say "not a good idea."

[Wall-E]

Sorry, town here.

[Wall-E]

OR AM I MUHAHAHAHAH

[X]

It's wolfy of you to suddenly investigate my meta and find me town just before I'm mislynched.

FoS: X

But I didn't find you town. There were a few things that I thought were tells before doing meta that evidently aren't tells for you, but I still think you're scum.

[hambargarz]

VOTE COUNT

(7) Wall-E (Idiotking, Sajin, yellowbunny, StrangerCoug, qwints, X, Ojanen)

(2) Looker (Kreriov, Hero764)
(1) Idiotking (Wall-E)

Not voting
Jase, Looker

[hambargarz]

Wall-E,

Townie

, Lynched Day 1

Night 1 has begun

Please get your night actions in

[hambargarz]

Just to let everyone know
Night 1 will be going on a little longer than usual. This is because not all players are present. Day 2 Will commence Sunday 17th May.

To avoid this in the future, from now on a strict 72 hour night will be enforced. No action submitted will result in no action for the night without exception.

[hambargarz]

A new day dawns. The townsfolk awake to find someone has been murdered in their sleep. A gun was found in his possession, unfortunately so was a badge.

qwints has been killed night 1. He was a

cop

It is now day 2. With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to lynch

SerialClergyman replaced Jase during the night
Thanks SerialClergyman!

[X]

I obviously have my suspicions, but I think it's best to let the new guy speak his mind to start things off. Thanks for joining, BTW, SerialClergyman!

Hm...I'm gonna have to think up abbreviations for SerialClergyman and StrangerCoug.

[SerialClergyman]

Something like Serial or Cler is easy - 'that chump' is fine too!

Umm.

I actually denied the option of a summary that the mod offered me given I was replacing in with 38 pages to read and instead keenly decided to read them all.

I came up with the following in notes:

Page 3 WALL-E sounds scummy and acts a bit wierd.
Page 37 Mason claim
Page 38 Lynch of obvtarget due to deadline approaching.

Thus my insights aren't going to be brilliant.

I think I might have to go back knowing what we know aobut qints to see if there's a reason why he's been killed. My initial reaction to his death is that it is very surprising none of the claimed masons have been killed. Perhaps they were worried about a possible doctor and double guessing and all that, but to avoid the claimed townies and to find the cop iseither lucky or there's something else going on.

Sorry for not being a master sleuth!

[Idiotking]

Ahoy new guy!

To be honest, I'm not surprised at the mafia's actions. If you're mafia in a game this small, it's probably safe to assume that there's no other scumgroups, which means everyone else is a confirmed town, or at least, everyone else is a target. Since you know everyone else is town or third party, if someone softclaims/fullclaims mason and tries to protect the other mason, it'd probably be smart going for someone else to hit a powerrole. However, I'm not sure if masons and powerroles are generally combined, like a mason/cop or doctor/cop.

On another note, it's very possible that yellowbunny and Looker are a scumgroup claiming mason because it's convenient and likely to give them something close to a confirmed townie status in most people's eyes. I'm not saying this is likely, but it's certainly possible.

[Idiotking]

Crap, meant "doctor/mason".

[Ojanen]

Page 3 WALL-E sounds scummy and acts a bit wierd.

Either page 3 or Wall-E is incorrect in this, which?

[Ojanen]

I don't know what to make of the nightkill yet, I need to reread qwints.

On another note, it's

very possible

that yellowbunny and Looker are a scumgroup claiming mason because it's convenient and likely to give them something close to a confirmed townie status in most people's eyes.

I'm not saying this is likely

, but it's certainly possible.

That makes me feel a bit uneasy though.
"It's very possible that they are scum but I'm not saying it's likely."
Ugh.

[SerialClergyman]

Hi Ojanen. I'm RL friends with Sando, and watched your newbie game. You were very convincing, had me fooled 100%. Well played.

My summary was more of a joke than a specific comment on the game. I meant it to mean that there was a LOT of talk with very little being revealed. It wasn't to say that specifically page 3 was Wally being scummy.

If I were to make a case against anyone based on my initial read, it would be yellowbunny. That all got overridden when she claimed mason which both explained away some of the perceived scummyness and also make it much harder to push a case against her based on normal tells - we need to decide whether we believe the lcaim or not.

Ojanen brings up a point against IK that is reflected in a few of his posts. That is, his language is often contradictory.

Some things I noticed from IK in the latter half of the game:

Things like this from 632:
[quote=idiotking]I guess you could say I've been tunneling, but the main reason for that is because of Wall-E's obsessive refusal to defend himself until relatively recently. Right now I'm not so sure about him anymore. [/quote]

Reflected again in 787:

[quote=idiotking]I'm not voting because I'm up in the air right now. If it comes to it, I'll hammer Wall-E the first chance I get, but my gut is telling me to wait and see what happens. [quote]

Lots of pretty definitive language but then a conditioner. It's up in the air BUT I'll hammer first chance I get. I have moved from thinking this is not just indecisive or a personality traint, but actually a scummy conditioning move.

I do think we should try to work out if we can resolve this mason issue. Without a cop, how do we make a decision without wasting a lynch on them?

[SerialClergyman]

Sorry for fail quote tags

[Looker]

Idiot's Post 937 - I agree with you, there are endless possibilities; however, since I'm trying to come back to this game full-force, I would appreciate it if you would state your stance on me (and yellowbunny because, apparently, he claimed somewhere in this thread).

This can also apply to Kreriov and Hero.

I'm also going to go back and see if I can find why Wall-E had a vote on you before he was lynched.

[Idiotking]

That makes me feel a bit uneasy though.
"It's very possible that they are scum but I'm not saying it's likely."
Ugh.

Let me clarify: I'm not suspicious of them at the moment, mostly because of yellowbunny's play thusfar. But Looker's scumminess shouldn't be discounted either. It's like they're going in opposite directions, one pulling them up and one pulling them down.

Lots of pretty definitive language but then a conditioner. It's up in the air BUT I'll hammer first chance I get. I have moved from thinking this is not just indecisive or a personality traint, but actually a scummy conditioning move.

It was up in the air, yes, but by that point we were in information overload, as several people repeatedly said, so if my original target (Wall-E) were at L-1, I'd have hammered in a heartbeat. Even at that point I knew that it would be impossible to get quality info out of him on subsequent days considering the hell we were put through trying to get him to talk on Day 1. That was essentially his biggest scumtell, and would have contaminated all conversation for the rest of the game, until he was lynched (I can't possibly see the mafia killing him, he would have been like a secret weapon to them or something).

[StrangerCoug]

Hm...I'm gonna have to think up abbreviations for SerialClergyman and StrangerCoug.

Coug is the most common abbreviation to my name besides SC.

(and yellowbunny because, apparently, he claimed somewhere in this thread).

SHE

claimed to be your mason buddy, if my memory serves me correctly.

9:00 in the morning is not my brain's best time to be thinking straight, so give me awhile. I'll reread if I find it necessary.

[yellowbunny]

Looker wrote:
(and yellowbunny because, apparently, he claimed somewhere in this thread).


SHE claimed to be your mason buddy, if my memory serves me correctly.

The she part is correct...ty SC.

And yes, I claimed Looker - you were about to get lynched. I wanted us to have a shot at lynching scum, not someone I knew was town. Also I mentioned that in the PM I sent you...

Anyway, I need a lot of coffee and then do some work. I'll be back to post my thoughts later today.

[yellowbunny]

I do think we should try to work out if we can resolve this mason issue. Without a cop, how do we make a decision without wasting a lynch on them?

It is extremely unfortunate that we do not have a cop anymore. I figured it was very probable that we had a cop in the game (as its a common role)...so I fully anticipated either Looker or I to be investigated and confirmed town.

Without getting too much into WIFOM, I think town realizes its highly unlikely that I am lying. If I were scum, what I did would be beyond idiotic...mostly because I would have needed to get crazy lucky to pull it off.

Specifically, if I were scum, and attempted to pull off some sort of gambit to keep Looker alive, I would HAVE TO kill the cop. Consider as how my suspect pool would be EVERYONE minus scum & Wall-e...well, the odds are NOT in my favor.

Contrast that with letting Looker die. When I claimed, if I remember correctly, Looker was at L-2. I was not under much suspicion...a couple of people (Jase and Hero were the only ones, aside from Wall-e, who thought half the people in the game were IK's scum partner...) expressed a weak suspicion in me. Most other people I felt thought I was pretty pro-town. People easily believing my claim on Looker demonstrates that. If I were scum, I could have just bused my weak partner. Then I'd be a percieved pro-town player on a scum wagon...which is a pretty damn strong position.

So why would I give up such a strong position on such a huge gamble? Particularly as, if I were scum, the position I came out in is weaker (as we are having this discussion...it demonstrates my position would be weaker). Giving up a strong position for a weaker position doesn't make sense. Gambling a strong position on the low probability of something happening (killing the cop) doesn't make sense. I'd have to be a moron to do this.

[X]

I had suspicions of Jase, and Cler hasn't changed anything. Your insights were really lacking, and the only new thing that you said was the speculation on why neither Looker or YB died. Then after Ojanen posts some content, then you echo it. Not a good start for you. May I ask what you mean by a "conditioning move?"

Looker, if you really are town, you would do well to actually contribute to the game. The only reason I think you are town is because I think YB is town. Which brings me to:

It is extremely unfortunate that we do not have a cop anymore. I figured it was very probable that we had a cop in the game (as its a common role)...so I fully anticipated either Looker or I to be investigated and confirmed town.

Without getting too much into WIFOM, I think town realizes its highly unlikely that I am lying. If I were scum, what I did would be beyond idiotic...mostly because I would have needed to get crazy lucky to pull it off.

Specifically, if I were scum, and attempted to pull off some sort of gambit to keep Looker alive, I would HAVE TO kill the cop. Consider as how my suspect pool would be EVERYONE minus scum & Wall-e...well, the odds are NOT in my favor.

Your logic throughout D1 kept making me think you were town, and I'm still leaning that way. But this quote sounds like bragging that by killing the Cop, you made your fakeclaim stronger. This quote is giving me pause in believing you.

I also think Sajin is somewhat scummy for a few things from D1: His repeated use of his statistics argument over scumminess, trying to call discussion "lining up lynches," and this quote which I noticed in my re-read:

Deadline is coming up

(when btw mod)

.

All of those things make me see him as anti-discussion, and thus anti-town.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm hesitant to advocate the lynch of either claimed mason (from my understanding, scumbuddies faking masons are very rare, and that's me assuming it even happens), though I do find myself in agreement with what X just posted. yellowbunny put a black mark on herself with #947 by going too much into WIFOM for my liking.

While investigating one of the claimed masons makes sense to me, I as the cop would likely pick someone else due to masons being very hard to successfully fake. Sajin would have been a good pick in my opinion.