MKM II GAME OVER


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Post Post #1275 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 7:12 am

Post by Moratorium »

I thought you were going to be sharing your thoughts along the way. I don't think anyone cares what page you are at. We're more interested in what you have to say about it.


Mod edit
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-zwetschenwasser (5): AceMarksman, caf19, Moratorium, Gorrad, Empking
-populartajo (2): zwetschenwasser, ortolan
-Looker (2): Kast, populartajo
-Gorrad (1): WeyounsLastClone

Not voting (6): killa seven, ZEEnon, Riceballtail, Looker, sirdanilot, semioldguy

With 16 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.
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Post Post #1276 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 7:16 am

Post by populartajo »

Empking wrote:
populartajo wrote:
Empking wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:
Empking wrote:
Unvote

Vote: Zwet


The whole role PM from the site isn't very good.
I still don't even know what site you're referring to. Isn't it possible that the mod might just have copied it?
Its not very likely.
Empking who is scum?
I think its Zwet, Mora and some more people.
This is a very interesting choice. Why zwet and why Mora?

And who are some people?
Call me Tajo.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12894
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Post Post #1277 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 7:28 am

Post by Lawrencelot »

-killa seven
-Riceballtail
-Surye ZEEnon
-ortolan
These people have been prodded.
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Post Post #1278 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 7:45 am

Post by Empking »

populartajo wrote:
Empking wrote:
populartajo wrote:
Empking wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:
Empking wrote:
Unvote

Vote: Zwet


The whole role PM from the site isn't very good.
I still don't even know what site you're referring to. Isn't it possible that the mod might just have copied it?
Its not very likely.
Empking who is scum?
I think its Zwet, Mora and some more people.
This is a very interesting choice. Why zwet and why Mora?

And who are some people?
Zwet: I don't beleive his claim.
Mor: Because he's trying to make himself look more like he's town than helping town.
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Post Post #1279 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 8:06 am

Post by Lawrencelot »

Oh and Looker has requested replacement.
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Post Post #1280 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 8:06 am

Post by Moratorium »

So essentially, if you think Zwets is scum, then you think that I'm currently bussing my second scum partner on Day 2, both of whom I put the initial vote on?

Nice gambit, me.
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Post Post #1281 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 8:23 am

Post by sirdanilot »

Oh as for giving thoughts along the way I think someone said that I should give my thoughts AFTER reading (kast, acemarksman and you, in fact). Not sure I can quote where exactly you said that though.

First I thought poptajo was scum, then after he proved he had item knowledge I leaned town, but since that doesn't say anything anymore I can see poptajo scum. My suspicion is not as much as it used to be though, but let's not give him a free pass just because of the item claim plan ok?
AceMarksman was suspicious, but needs a reread. I actually don't recall anymore why I found ortolan suspicious, needs a reread at some point I guess. WLC seemed scummy too. That's about it I guess. Then there are obviously some useless people in the thread of whom I don't have a read.

I don't like the blatant zwet lynching because he's zwet around page 45 or so. Yes the 'you claimed wario' thing was stupid but is stupid scum? I don't like tajo's push of looker (lurkerlynch, not that I think he's towny or anything). I don't like ortolan vs tajo. It seems a lot like a misguided towny vs towny thing, even though ironically I do have quite a bit of suspicions of one of them. Weird.

I will refrain from saying who is town, although in my eyes it's quite obvious.

Meta question: Does tajo have a meta for omgus?

Right now I would be inclined to vote WLC, maybe acemarksman but I will have to closely reread. I will not vote until I finish reading the entire game.
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Post Post #1282 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 8:47 am

Post by Moratorium »

sirdanilot wrote: Oh as for giving thoughts along the way I think someone said that I should give my thoughts AFTER reading (kast, acemarksman and
you, in fact
). Not sure I can quote where exactly you said that though.
I can.
Moratorium wrote:
sirdanilot wrote:Do you guys want to stay updated like this while I read? I felt it might be helpful.
Yes please, I'd like to see your
progression
of thought.
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Post Post #1283 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 9:59 am

Post by Empking »

Moratorium wrote:So essentially, if you think Zwets is scum, then you think that I'm currently bussing my second scum partner on Day 2, both of whom I put the initial vote on?

Nice gambit, me.
I don't like to base my reads on non-dead players over than the player I'm reading.
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Post Post #1284 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 10:03 am

Post by populartajo »

Sirdan, how the hell is my case on Looker a lurkerlynch case?
Sirdan wrote:I don't like ortolan vs tajo. It seems a lot like a misguided towny vs towny thing, even though ironically I do have quite a bit of suspicions of one of them. Weird.
And this makes sense how?
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Post Post #1285 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 10:39 am

Post by Riceballtail »

VOTE:Tajo


You need to stop bringing up your plan as how great and wonderful it makes you. Yes it killed a scum, but you could have easily done it intentionally to bus. Leading a lynch on scum D1 doesn't make you town. Especially when you backed off right before the actual lynch.
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Post Post #1286 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 10:50 am

Post by caf19 »

I'm still generally up for a zwet lynch, but if support for it is waning then I'll have to look at other options. Reread time.
Riceballtail wrote:
VOTE:Tajo


You need to stop bringing up your plan as how great and wonderful it makes you. Yes it killed a scum, but you could have easily done it intentionally to bus. Leading a lynch on scum D1 doesn't make you town. Especially when you backed off right before the actual lynch.
These are all reasons why tajo isn't obvtown, not why he is anti-town. What do you think makes him scum?
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Post Post #1287 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 10:53 am

Post by populartajo »

Rice wrote:You need to stop bringing up your plan as how great and wonderful it makes you.
The idea was not to tell the world Im wonderful. The idea was to catch scum using the information we had as town. You think my plan was then a waste of time?
Rice wrote:Yes it killed a scum, but you could have easily done it intentionally to bus. Leading a lynch on scum D1 doesn't make you town.

I agree. But does it make me more prob scum or more prob town?
Rice wrote:Especially when you backed off right before the actual lynch.
You realize how retarded it would have been for me as scum to prevent a lynch of someone that was heavily suspected and that I knew would come up scum eventually?

Rice, do you at least have an opinion on other people in the game?
Call me Tajo.
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Post Post #1288 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 10:55 am

Post by AceMarksman »

RBT, that was absolute fail at content. Try again.
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Post Post #1289 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 11:01 am

Post by Kast »

@Tajo-
So when someone shows you that you are being inconsistent, you just ignore it?
That is plausible given the way you reacted in your argument with Semioldguy previously.


I have already stated that I think Looker is scummy; that's where my vote will sit until/unless someone else more actively scummy appears.

I've shared and continue to share my thoughts on all the active players, and I've asked for prods/replacements on the inactive/uninterested.

I will add that Empking's recent posts look like an opportunistic wagon against Zwet and complete BS on Mora.

-As for what to do with anti-town players such as Zwet or Looker, I think we should treat them like any other player. If they do anything that is actually scummy (which Looker has done), we should push for a lynch. He should claim prior to being lynched (but it is ridiculous to call for him to claim with 1-2 votes on him).

Just because a player is anti-town and/or crazy, does not mean it is impossible to find scumtells in their behavior.

If any of their anti-town behavior is seriously affecting the ability of the town to catch scum OR if we had absolutely nothing to go on and no leads at all, then I could agree with a policy lynch. However, that is not our current situation.

@Sirdanilot-
Not quite true, although I can kinda guess at what you were thinking of.

Mora and Kast both told you to keep us updated as you go along.

Mora and Ace, chided you for posting opinions on the current lynch of Zwet based only on the initial 1/4 of the game. They weren't telling you to stop posting your thoughts, they were telling you not to judge the current Zwet wagon based only on the initial portion of the game.

Kast asked you to post your thoughts for the remaining 3/4 of the game. This was not a request to stop posting until you finished reading.

@ZEEnon-
You told us you are here and were upset that someone tried attacking you while you are V/LA. Then post some content if you are really here and not just lurking until your name comes up.

@RBT-
How does Tajo backing off a sure lynch indicate that he is mafia?

Agreed that claiming his plan is responsible for lynching scum D1 is an inaccurate way to present D1. But his plan did have a part in leading to SK's lynch. The majority of credit for that lynch should go to Ace.

@Semioldguy-
I think Looker's initial dodging against claiming whether he had items makes sense with your speculation that SK may have known the items but intentionally chose to claim no item knowledge to split up from other scumbuddies. Looker could very feasibly have been waiting for his scum buddies to act first and then make his decision after.

@Tajo-
Tajo wrote:Still big prob of having third parties in the group of people not having item descriptions.
This is the second time that you presented this speculation as fact. The first time I ignored it as ambiguous language. But now you present it again.
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Post Post #1290 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 11:03 am

Post by AceMarksman »

sir: What SPECIFIC reasons (with quotes) do you have for finding me scum? I think that it's pretty obvious that I'm BA when I caught SK in his role claim.
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Post Post #1291 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 11:07 am

Post by zwetschenwasser »

Empking, it is very likely. There are lots of role PM's, and the mod needs lots of flavor for them.
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Post Post #1292 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 5:38 pm

Post by Gorrad »

Tajo's so town it's not even funny. His list (with possible exception of WLC and Moratorium moved to the lower list) is pretty bloody close to mine.

Moratorium, what part of multiple scumgroups don't you get? You can easily be scum without being Zwet's partner.
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Post Post #1293 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 5:46 pm

Post by ortolan »

I seriously cannot believe tajo doesn't have more votes on him

He has repeatedly rolefished, explicitly asked for claims before players are at L-1, repeatedly focused on scummy rolefishing methods including asking for a mass-claim day one, and is pretty much just naming as his suspect people who lurk and are easy to lynch bar me. He is blatantly scummy and his usual playstyle is far more analytic whereas all he is doing here is picking on people like Looker with a blatantly transparently disingenuous case and has simply been OMGUSing me all game despite all objective indications of my alignment suggesting town so far.

If Gorrad is indeed town and agrees with tajo's suspicions list that honestly mystifies me.
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Post Post #1294 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 5:50 pm

Post by ortolan »

Gorrad: why do you think I am scum? I want to see a good case from you this time.
Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529

Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.
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Post Post #1295 (ISO) » Wed May 13, 2009 6:48 pm

Post by Gorrad »

It doesn't matter. I'm not going to push for your lynch today. In fact, I'd be rather upset if you WERE lynched. When I vote you, Ortolan, I give you my word that it will come with reasons sufficient for even you.
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Post Post #1296 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2009 4:01 am

Post by sirdanilot »

caf19 wrote:I'm still
generally
up for a zwet lynch,
but if support for it is waning then I'll have to look at other options.
Reread time.
vote: caf19


I'll reread this guy some time. He seems to fall in the same category as WLC, as well as quints on day 1 (now flipped scum). Posting reasonably regularly, although not ubiquitous, and posting content as well as scummy things like these. Short periods of absence are common.

AceMarksman: I really felt you were suspicious in the beginning of the game. But indeed the SK claim thing was a town tell. I don't know why I didn't consider the importance of that to the extend I am doing right now (no I didn't ignore it though). I may make the case on you some time but I think there are more important things.
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Post Post #1297 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2009 4:27 am

Post by sirdanilot »

caf19 wrote:Ok, zwet's claim didn't present us with any huge reasons not to lynch him.

His claim wasn't a huge disaster but is weak and nebulous enough that it could easily have come from scum. The fire-resistance seems to fit flavour-wise, but obviously scum would know their own killing methods. It's something that could have been fabricated without too much trouble.

Then again, the nagging voice in the back of my head tells me that for a zwetclaim, 'not a disaster' is probably the best thing you're going to get...

ort, how certain exactly does your info make you that zwet is town?
lol blatant zwet lynch push. wiffle waffle I am sitting comfortably on my fence. In his last line he is doing something we could interpret as rolefishing but maybe that would be just a
tiny bit
too fast...

I really need to do a case on this guy. He's a gem. First I will read the entire thread (ALMOST DONE) but then it's on I hope when I have time.
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Post Post #1298 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2009 4:52 am

Post by sirdanilot »

populartajo wrote:
quoting caf's post

This is good posting. You are going to vote caf too, ort?
lolwhat
kast wrote:As a rule of thumb, it seems better to avoid a mislynch and let scum learn a townie's role than to get lynched but deny scum that information. But there could well be exceptions.
?

Have to go now.
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Post Post #1299 (ISO) » Thu May 14, 2009 6:05 am

Post by sirdanilot »

Finally done reading the entire thread. 50 pages... DAMN.

Looker is being replaced and I think we should hold off of lynching him until the replacement is ready.

Not enough energy to go after cam or whatever his name is right now. oh it's caf.

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