Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[alexhans]

mmm... made posted in MS the 11th of may. Lindis made his injection claim on 10... Made didn't say anything about it. I honestly thought he had...

Why does made accuse so strongly Lindis for just tracking? Why did Lindis felt necessary to explain he had supplied the injection? Why is lindis not trying to help town once he knew he was dead? Town players would try to help town until they're officially dead.

I'm not going to contest any votes on me, since I am the best lynch, information-wise, for town today. I'll answer any questions anyone might have for me. It might give you guys some insight tomorrow.

then poof! dissapeared.

I'm gonna full claim governor now (so there's no doubt about it)... Maybe it was a bad idea but this game is definetly stalling with few players posting so we need to DO something.

Should I say my name?

Nothing about pictures in my role.

[Korlash]

Kor: Lindis night acted on 2 people and only said he had acted on 1! then he admits doing both.

*gasp* How did I miss that?!?!

Please, learn some strategy before you play with the big boys. Any town that has two actions is going to shadow one of them in the first claim post especially when there was no reason for him to claim anyways. To use that as a selling point for him being a liar is just stupid when there are so many other good things to use. This is a completely moot point that could have equally come from a town or a scum and you seem to think it's inherently scummy. Yes, it could be backpeddeling scum and it could also be town protecting the interests of the town. Do you have evidence of either? no? Then stop trying to cram it down our throats as the key reason he is scum becuase it proves and suggests nothing.

He is not saying it now is he?

Don't avoid the subject, you blatantly attacked him for not saying it then while it was YOUR fault he wasn't even allowed to say it. Saying it now is pointless, I'm only arguing with you becuase you're giving me reason to suspect you. You need to realise you hammered prematurely and stop trying to blame others for not stopping you.

I don't know man. I'm set on this lynch and no one tried to contradict those who voted lindis because it's a good case. Made's certainty will definetly be scummy if lindis is not scum. And the fact that he is kinda absent.

How is that an inonsistency and why is one of them auto scum if the other is town? Don't avoid answering this again.

I'm gonna be clearer... I CAN stop the lynch before twilight ends (hence the long twilight)... Prove me wrong and I'll stop it.

I knew someone had a twilight ability I just couldn't think of what it was. I would prefere you to stop the lynch so we can get Phail's responces to some of this, provided of course it doesn't end the day in a no lynch and allows us to lynch him gain in a few days. You want reason to stop it, here it is. You say hail is scum if Lind is town, then you better be doing everything today to get the evidence you need for tomorrow. Phail's comments on some of this new stuff could be crucial to that, hell it might even PREVENT a mislynch if Phail is the scum, or heaven forbid they are both town. You are arguing one is scum if the other is town yet you don't give a damn what the other one has to say which goes to show you don't really seem to believe that he has the option of being scum, and if you don't believe what you are saying that makes you... a liar.

If you honestly think Lind is the scum say that, let him be lynched, and let's go to night. But stop calling Phail a fallback guy without evidence and without even TRYING to get that evidence.

[Korlash]

Should I say my name?

Nothing about pictures in my role.

I'm pretty sure i know who you are so you might as well say it. Kinda pointless to out your role and keep your flavor and name hidden. Never been in a game with a govenor so I'll need to look that up. Do you end the day when you use your ability?

Why does made accuse so strongly Lindis for just tracking? Why did Lindis felt necessary to explain he had supplied the injection? Why is lindis not trying to help town once he knew he was dead? Town players would try to help town until they're officially dead.

Your first question here is a pretty good reason why Phail's comments right now would be so important. Only he can answer that. If a town's minor claim doesn't stop his lynch eventually he has to come out with the shadowy details. And he admitted to using a toy, he only assumed he did the injections. it could easily be, as town, he was giving us a possible reason for why it happened.

And tell me exactly how one helps the town once you know you are dead? Unless he knew we had a govenenor what exactly did you xpect him to do?

then poof! dissapeared.

... Lind hasn't disappeared... what are you talking about...

[alexhans]

Konosuke Jii... I helped the original Kaitou Kid... and I'm the helper to the title's heir. I've got good connections.

And tell me exactly how one helps the town once you know you are dead? Unless he knew we had a govenenor what exactly did you xpect him to do?

post. Accuse. Say something. Answer questions. Try.

Since May 13, 2009 5:52 pm he has been not posting here when he could try to say whatever last words he can to try and guide town into what he thinks is correct.

[Battousai]

I don't know man. I'm set on this lynch and no one tried to contradict those who voted lindis because it's a good case. Made's certainty will definetly be scummy if lindis is not scum. And the fact that he is kinda absent.

How is that an inconsistency and why is one of them auto scum if the other is town? Don't avoid answering this again.

[alexhans]

Because they're contradicting each other in the people that they tracked!!!

MAde tracks Lindis and says that he went for Kair all right. Later dissapears and doesn't confirm Lindis tracking him. Wich would inmediatly make him think of the injection he received and make Lindis town rather than scum.

Lindis says he tracked kair and adds nothing else. He afterwards says that he tracked MAde too. But made never mentioned Lindis tracking 2 people.

One of them is lying.

That's an inconsistency.

[Battousai]

Is that true, madeofphail?

[Lindisfarne]

Firstly:

Since May 13, 2009 5:52 pm he has been not posting here when he could try to say whatever last words he can to try and guide town into what he thinks is correct.

That is what, 24 hours? I posted a list of my thoughts on who I consider town and who feels scummy. I offered to answer any questions. Direct a question to me and I will answer.

Your new post here makes me think you're not positive on what's going on made:

I did not track both kair and made. I never said I did. I TRACKED kair, as I said. With made, I simply targeted him with my second ability. There was no tracking involved with him. I can only track one person a night. Some people doesn't think agasa should have a tracking ability, yet kairyuu refuses to confirm my result on him, which would be a chip in my favor.

[alexhans]

That is what, 24 hours? I posted a list of my thoughts on who I consider town and who feels scummy. I offered to answer any questions. Direct a question to me and I will answer.

That's great. But you made that post when you thought you were alive.

Sorry. I misused the word TRACK multiple times. I mean you night acted.

You didn't say you night acted twice. And it WAS relevant because he had trcked you. Made didn't mention you night acting twice. You agreed to your lynch for info. Wich is always a scummy move to save yourself IMO.

I'm having my second thoughts about made but it's either you or him so I'm not overly concerned. Finally people are talking.

[Kairyuu]

@LF: I am neither confirming nor denying that I made an action last Night simply because in a non-lylo situation, a power role counterclaim from scum leads to a 1-for-1 tradeoff at best, and simply losing a scum at worst. Therefore, assuming phail to be scum, he must be completely illogical and irrational to gambit the way he did outside of lylo. The only logical conclusion is that you are scum. Hence, confirming or denying your statement will either a) let you off the hook if I confirm, and I will not let a scum off the hook, or b) provide your buddy/buddies with power role information that the town does not want them to know. Both situations negatively impact the town, and positively impact the scum.

Logic says I keep my trap shut.

[alexhans]

remember... I can STILL Stop this lynch if someone thinks it is better.

I don't think that nolynch is a better right now.

I don't know when but Gorrad may pop up at any time so if you have something to say do it now...

[Lindisfarne]

Wait, saying you are the best lynch for the day is a scummy move to save yourself? You must be one of the most paranoid players I've met on MS.

That's great. But you made that post when you thought you were alive

And I stick with what I said: no questions have been asked directly of me. Korlash has been sorting out the qualms I have with your logic, and the rest of the posts is mostly people saying they wish so-and-so would talk.

I did say I night acted twice though. I tracked kairyuu, which I admitted to, without beating around the bush, after made asked me my role. I did not know what my other ability did, so I wasn't going to put everything out in the open 1. not knowing what my other ability did, and 2. not knowing made's intentions. All I know is I targeted him with an ability, and he, the next day, votes me and tells me to role claim. Don't tell me you wouldn't be cautious in that situation, and spill every detail of your role off the bat?

Made said I targeted him, and as for me targeting kairyuu, he has said this:

Lindisfarne is telling the truth about targeting Kairyuu last night

[Lindisfarne]

@LF: I am neither confirming nor denying that I made an action last Night simply because in a non-lylo situation, a power role counterclaim from scum leads to a 1-for-1 tradeoff at best, and simply losing a scum at worst. Therefore, assuming phail to be scum, he must be completely illogical and irrational to gambit the way he did outside of lylo. The only logical conclusion is that you are scum. Hence, confirming or denying your statement will either a) let you off the hook if I confirm, and I will not let a scum off the hook, or b) provide your buddy/buddies with power role information that the town does not want them to know. Both situations negatively impact the town, and positively impact the scum.

Logic says I keep my trap shut.

Your logic is off Kairyuu.

You say confirming my statement will let me off the hook if you confirm. You then go to say you wont let scum off the hook: if you confirming is a pip towards my claim being honest, why hide it? What is it that makes you so deadset that I am scum?

Also, your logic dictates either made or I is lying, and does NOT take into the account that maybe both of us are telling the truth (which I find to be likely, since I DO agree with you that I don't think made is making his information up).

You're being narrow minded.

[Kairyuu]

@LF:

if you confirming is a pip towards my claim being honest, why hide it? What is it that makes you so deadset that I am scum?

Situation A:
I refuse to confirm that I didn't target anyone and you are town telling the truth.

Result: You are lynched, and flip town We move into Night, and phail probably dies.

Conclusion: Basic mislynch scenerio caused by duplicate roles in a Mini. Detrimental, but not horrible.

Situation B:
I confirm that I didn't target anyone and you are town telling the truth.

Result: No lynch. You or phail are NKed, and the typical mob mentality takes over, making the survivor the D3 lynch.

Conclusion: Same result as A, but gives the scum an extra NK. Potentially game-ending.

Situation C:
I confirm that I didn't target anyone and you are scum lying.

Result: No lynch. phail is NKed, and mob mentality takes over to lynch you D3.

Conclusion: Wastes an extra Day phase to get rid of you, giving you a free Night to make final plans with your buddy/buddies. Potentially dangerous.

Situation D:
I refuse to confirm that I didn't target anyone and you are scum lying.

Result: You die, flip scum. phail is confirmed town and draws a doc protect. We enter D3 with a plethora of information and good positioning.

Conclusion: Best case scenerio.

Situation E:
I refuse to refute your statement even though I targetted someone (obviously this means you're lying).

Result: Same as situation D

Conclusion: Same as D.

Situation F:
I refute your claim by saying that I targetted someone.

Result: You are lynched and flip scum. phail and I are both confirmed town, but only one can draw a doc protect unless we have multiple docs (unlikely). If your buddy/buddies shoot correctly, the town is down a power role that there was no reason to give up.

Conclusion: Sub-optimal.

Analysis:
Situation A, D, and E involve me refusing to confirm or deny. Given that A is the lesser of the detriments of A and B, and D and E are the better of the two positives C and D and E and F, keeping my mouth shut gains us the most if you are scum, and loses us the least if you are town.

Final conclusion:
Given the two scenerios where you are assumed town being what they are, the fact that you are trying to draw a No Lynch to keep you alive for awhile longer is detrimental to the town in the long run. At this point the logical course of action as town would be to sit tight, express any last suspicions, and die willingly.

Also, your logic dictates either made or I is lying, and does NOT take into the account that maybe both of us are telling the truth (which I find to be likely, since I DO agree with you that I don't think made is making his information up).

In a game of this size I find it highly unlikely that we would get duplicate roles, or at least, that we would get duplicate roles with the same alignment, especially since we already know based on a cop flip, a governor claim, and 2 tracker claims that there is a pretty high power role density even disregarding your claim.

You're being narrow minded.

No. I'm being purely logical at the moment. I do act very narrow minded at times, but this is not one of them.

[Gorrad]

The day looks bleak once more as Lindisfarne is brought up to die. Madeofphail, leading the strike, calls him a LIAR! Surely only one of them could truely be truthful, he insists, and it certainly wasn't Lind.

But as Lindisfarne is killed, spirits sink when they search him and his house to find that he was, in fact, Hershel Agasa, Roleblocker. It seems one of the most brilliant minds in the world has been killed before his time...

...but as Lindisfarne's body starts to grow stiff, you begin to see that maybe Agasa was killed even earlier than you expected. For Lind's body seems to be...changing. Shrinking at the waist, growing slightly, and turning steadily younger. It seems an imposter was amongst you as Lind is revealed to actually be the blond-haired man in black himself, Gin. One of the town's enemies, and Agasa's murderer, has been brought to his final truth.

Lindisfarne, Mafia Roleblocker, Hershel Agasa/Gin, lynched D2

N2! Get night choices in to me ASAP

[Gorrad]

Lindisfarne 2 replaces Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn

As the day breaks, you're surprised to find not one, not two, but three bodies in the town square! The first belonged to Alexhans, none other than the great Kaito Kid, AKA Kaito Kuroba! Though what you don't understand is why his housekey is that of the home of Kaito's butler, Konosuke Jii. Stranger still is that he seems to be in perfect health, other than being dead, and the only clue to the MO is some faint traces of magic...

The other two were obviously in a standoff, a series climax, that unfortunately is not pictured here. Madeofphail, AKA Conan Edagawa, AKA Jimmy Kudo, shot by the man who turned him such. None other than Vodka, the second Man in Black, who was cunningly disguised as Booker Kudo, Jimmy's father. Vodka was better known as Lindisfarne 2, though, and is knocked into a coma across the way from Conan.

Alexhans, 1-shot governer/Jack of All Trades, Konosuke Jii/Kaito Kuroba, Magic'd N2
Madeofphail, Tracker/Vig, Jimmy Kudo/Conan Edagawa, Shot N2

Lindisfarne 2, Mafia Ninja, Booker Kudo/Vodka KO'd N2

D3! With six alive, it's four to lynch

[Kairyuu]

Mmk. So. Seems my 1+ scum out of LF, IVS, and phail theory was right. 2/3 of them were scum, and the third was the one to nail both of the other two. That is poetic justice.

Now, since it is quite obvious that the scum killed phail, and that phail killed LF2/IVS, we are left with a third, unexplained kill. This could be a problem.

Methinks that at this point massclaim would be a smart move.

Any objections?

And before I forget,

vote: Strangercoug

. Methinks that the consistant attacks from alexhans, who was pretty much obvtown, especially after the Governor claim, were beginning to worry him.

[Sajin]

I am not opposed to claiming. Name claims for sure would be very nice. Popcorn style or are you going to make a list kairyuu?

[Kairyuu]

I'm cool with anything. Popcorn is preferable though, with SC to start.

[Korlash]

HA HA! I knew it Gorrad. I freaking new it! jimmy's mom in the setup meant his dad was a scum fakeclaim! You are getting oo predicatble my friend! Too predictable indeed!

I'm kinda lost on what we are looking at here. I predicted Gin and tonic, I mean Vodka as mafia but I can't picture who would be a third. So it's possible they were the only two. I thought the phantom thief kid would be the SK but I thought Kaito was the phantom thief... I'll have to look that up.

Regardless I don't really care either way on massclaim. I think we have pros and cons for both having it and not so... yeah... either way is fine. And I like popcorn although it does seem to lose a bit of flair this late in the game...

[StrangerCoug]

And before I forget,

vote: Strangercoug

. Methinks that the consistant attacks from alexhans, who was pretty much obvtown, especially after the Governor claim, were beginning to worry him.

I somewhat see what you're talking about, especially since I thought alexhans was scummy Day 1, but I'd still like evidence that I was worried about him.

The only worry I have about massclaiming is that we could be at 5-1 with the 1 being the SK. I really don't want an awful lot of power roles outed with that ratio of town to scum. On the other hand, 4-2 (meaning we have another scum group, which is unlikely—I see nothing werewolfy about "magic'd") is MYLO, and 4-1-1 means if we mislynch and the two remaining scum hit different townies, it's prisoner's dilemma.

Popcorn's fine.

[Kairyuu]

@Strangercoug: There is no in-thread evidence that he worried you. However, the fact that he died as soon as his attention was focused elsewhere for a while is telling in my opinion.

[Battousai]

Just like to point out, the first to suggest massclaim should be the first to claim, IMO. Also, I'm waiting on clarification from the mod on a question I asked him, as I think I know who the last scum is based on the answer.

[Kairyuu]

Massclaims generally start with the top suspect in my experience. Considering that all of my suspects are dead except for StrangerCoug, I suggested him. I don't feel the pressing urge to claim first because I am not suspected by the town.

[Korlash]

The town's top suspect, not yours. In order for you to call SC the "top suspect" multiple people need to actually suspect him. And it's kinda a stretch to say the town doesn't suspect you when the suggested first claim count is one for SC and one for you. Technically you're tied for most suspicious.

Something I missed before...

I am not opposed to claiming. Name claims for sure would be very nice. Popcorn style or are you going to make a list kairyuu?

why should Kairyuu make a list? And why should the rest of us follow it if he did?