Open 142: True Love (Game Over) before 784


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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Thu May 21, 2009 3:44 pm

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

I'm pretty well convinced that Amished has to be scum right now because of how terrible his arguments are against me since he's a better player than that.

First he tries to use playstyle against me (verbosity), except he himself admits he has no experience with my scum game which gives him no control group which makes his equation invalid.

He tries to link kirroha and I together and goes so far as to suggest I was defending her when I vote her in my fourth post, never unvoted and pushed her as the lynch for the entire day except for one post when the game slowed down and for some reason it seemed like the kirroha wagon had no support.

I call her busy, but not helpful to the town in post 3, vote her in post 4, I give reasons to sustain my vote in 9, I build a full case in 13 and say, "All in all, there’s plenty of anti-town behavior from kirroha to justify placing and sustaining a vote." In 17 after kirroha's "don't lynch Percy" meltdown I post, "Kirr-scum/Percy-town looks most correct to me. Everything about Kirroha, including the overly emotional post screams scum, since I have a hard time seeing that action in the light of scum/scum that suggests to me that Percy is less likely to be scum (at least in conjunction with kirroha)."

Furthermore, Amished says,
Finally in 23, he realizes that he won't have a target in D3 when Percy mislynches"


Except at that point I had completely backed away from Percy as scum, in fact in 17 I said...
If I was ranking potential kirroha partner's they'd go...

1) kmd, 2) ZazieR, 3) Percy, 4) Amished 5) Korts
So maybe you felt the follow-up lynch of Percy was inevitable, but in my posts I argued against that very thing and got grief from Sajin and KMD from 19-21. So my disagreement with the lynch of Percy/Korts was nothing new and if you had given me a chance I would've argued against it on D2, sadly I was denied that chance by your (collective) speed lynch. I'll give Amished his own ISO read later, but town Amished plays mafia in reality, while scum Amished has to make up terrible arguments like the above.
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Thu May 21, 2009 4:24 pm

Post by Amished »

Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:I'm pretty well convinced that Amished has to be scum right now because of how terrible his arguments are against me since he's a better player than that.
You're placing a burden of proficiency on me. I have 4 completed games, and you've only seen me in two that are still ongoing. Of the two you've seen me in, I've been NK'd N1 both times, and therefore have only seen me in a very limited role regarding knowledge of NK's, links, anything like that. I've even mentioned in our QT that this is the first game where I've been able to find scum successfully.
First he tries to use playstyle against me (verbosity), except he himself admits he has no experience with my scum game which gives him no control group which makes his equation invalid.
I have two games of yours where you were town. In a game of *only* town and mafia, you not being in your town meta = you being mafia.
He tries to link kirroha and I together and goes so far as to suggest I was defending her when I vote her in my fourth post, never unvoted and pushed her as the lynch for the entire day except for one post when the game slowed down and for some reason it seemed like the kirroha wagon had no support.
Your vote in your forth post certainly wasn't because you were attacking her. BTW: Are you saying that
Kirroha's reaction is so blatant and extreme and I just can't see that making sense from a scum perspective.
If there's no significant postings in the near future I will put Percy at L-1
It could be town-kirroha's overly emotional version of the same thing I did in the last game we were in together and we were both townies in that game (in which case it doesn't speak to Percy's alignment).
are you "attacking her the whole game"? (BTW: I view this last quote as trying to play to my "emotions" to link this situation with you defending me as Town when I made it rather obvious that I didn't feel that it was that similar of a situation right after you made that claim.)

Going through again, you still weren't attacking her all game. Posts 6-8, 10-12, 14-16, 18, 20-23 (all of which were while Kirroha was alive) have nothing in them where you were attacking her. 14 out of 19 (going from 4 where evidently your vote was serious) are you *not* attacking her.
Furthermore, Amished says,
Finally in 23, he realizes that he won't have a target in D3 when Percy mislynches"


Except at that point I had completely backed away from Percy as scum, in fact in 17 I said...
The you putting Percy at L-1 was in 16. Being that close to voting for somebody, then putting them way down on your list not 11 minutes later (post 154-156) after I told you that your explanation wouldn't fly with me (making it clear that I wouldn't unvote Kirroha for your reason) is highly suspicious.

@Sajin: I said that I would look primarily at connections between our scum (kirroha) and the rest of you. As KMD has focused so much of his time on Percy (while I've also said that tunneling like that is more of a town tell)

@KMD: My analysis of your play was in 243. As I feel you to be more townie (for the reasons given), and I know I'm townie, it makes it easy for me. Sajin being townie in my eyes too gives me exactly who I need to look at from here on as well.
I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.

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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Thu May 21, 2009 5:19 pm

Post by Amished »

Mod: I might be in and out til about Sunday, sorry for the absence
I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.

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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Thu May 21, 2009 5:36 pm

Post by Kmd4390 »

DDD, why did you see me as the most likely to be Kirroha's partner? And why are you now pushing Amishedscum over Kmdscum? You originally had Zazie as second most likely. Why aren't you looking at Sajin now?

Amished, I missed 243 for some reason. Reading now. (looks like we simulposted, so I missed it.) Ok, so you basically looked at my play for the entire game and I missed it. And so did Sajin. Interesting.

Sajin, you said in 249 that Amished "completely ignored" me "which makes him scum". What is your opinion now that he looked at my whole game in 243?
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Thu May 21, 2009 6:27 pm

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Amished wrote:
Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:I'm pretty well convinced that Amished has to be scum right now because of how terrible his arguments are against me since he's a better player than that.
You're placing a burden of proficiency on me. I have 4 completed games, and you've only seen me in two that are still ongoing. Of the two you've seen me in, I've been NK'd N1 both times, and therefore have only seen me in a very limited role regarding knowledge of NK's, links, anything like that. I've even mentioned in our QT that this is the first game where I've been able to find scum successfully.
Except I was following along in the still active newbie game where you replaced in as scum, I have both halves of your equation.
First he tries to use playstyle against me (verbosity), except he himself admits he has no experience with my scum game which gives him no control group which makes his equation invalid.
I have two games of yours where you were town. In a game of *only* town and mafia, you not being in your town meta = you being mafia.
False, let's late it out in a nice little syllogism. You claim A is a fact, however you discount B because you've never played with me as scum. In which case I'm simply breaking with the playstyle you've seen before which in no way indicates alignment.

A) Verbosity = Town
B) Verbosity = Town or Scum
Going through again, you still weren't attacking her all game. Posts 6-8, 10-12, 14-16, 18, 20-23 (all of which were while Kirroha was alive) have nothing in them where you were attacking her. 14 out of 19 (going from 4 where evidently your vote was serious) are you *not* attacking her.
So, you're resorting to hyper-literalism to try and be correct, not much of a case if so. No, I did not attack kirroha in every post, I "only" voted for her, built a case on her, never unvoted her, and pushed her as the best choice of lynch on D1 with a single minor exception. Somehow this doesn't seem to mesh with your theory that I was defending her.
The you putting Percy at L-1 was in 16. Being that close to voting for somebody, then putting them way down on your list not 11 minutes later (post 154-156) after I told you that your explanation wouldn't fly with me (making it clear that I wouldn't unvote Kirroha for your reason) is highly suspicious.
Cool, either you're not paying attention in your desperation or out and out lying. The threat to put Percy at L-1 was post
14
, several days before, the time sequence your theory relies on doesn't exist. And why would I be motivated to do anything based on you "not unvoting kirroha" when you didn't vote her till your post #24 right before deadline, scum? Your arguments here are based on things that you're creating from thin air.
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Thu May 21, 2009 6:29 pm

Post by Kmd4390 »

Why has DDD suddenly become more verbose?
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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Thu May 21, 2009 6:31 pm

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Kmd4390 wrote:DDD, why did you see me as the most likely to be Kirroha's partner? And why are you now pushing Amishedscum over Kmdscum? You originally had Zazie as second most likely. Why aren't you looking at Sajin now?
Because you were tunneling on a player that I had just identified as likely town and while your buddy-buddy stuff with ZazieR might be par for the course for you, it still made my uncomfortable that one of you was buddying with the other.

Why don't I take a look at Sajin? Mostly because Amished has resorted to simply making things up now to push my lynch. As it stands I'm unimpressed by my partner, he came into the game and attacked me for a poor reason, but in retrospect ZazieR pushed on kirroha pretty hard and I don't see such blatant bussing as likely at that point.
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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Thu May 21, 2009 6:46 pm

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Kmd4390 wrote:Why has DDD suddenly become more verbose?
You want an answer for that or is that just rhetorical musing?

Anyways,
Vote: Amished


So kmd can do the right thing if he feels so inclined and I'm not around for a while to finish things off.
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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Fri May 22, 2009 1:34 am

Post by Sajin »

I did not make up things at all. You attacked someone using WIFOM and you dismissed something using WIFOM in posts right next to each other. How is that confusing?
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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Fri May 22, 2009 2:29 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Sajin wrote:I did not make up things at all. You attacked someone using WIFOM and you dismissed something using WIFOM in posts right next to each other. How is that confusing?
Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
Sajin wrote:Because, DDD, your using WIFOM as the basis for your attacks and your defense. Thats hypocritical at best and scummy at worst.
Does anyone agree with this guy and can subsequently explain what he's driving at? Because I'm not seeing his point at all.
*crickets*

Simply, either no one understood or agreed with your argument. I "used WIFOM" to explain the kirroha/Percy situation, guess what, I was right, the non-WIFOM answer was wrong. I still fail to see how applying a little rationality to the situation and examining things beyond their most basic perspective is scummy.
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Fri May 22, 2009 5:43 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote: So kmd can do the right thing if he feels so inclined and I'm not around for a while to finish things off.
I actually think you are more likely scum.

:?

I don't want to hammer on a lynch I don't necessarily agree with...
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Fri May 22, 2009 5:49 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Kmd4390 wrote:
Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote: So kmd can do the right thing if he feels so inclined and I'm not around for a while to finish things off.
I actually think you are more likely scum.

:?

I don't want to hammer on a lynch I don't necessarily agree with...
Sure, but with the setup and votes going the way there are there's no threat of scum quick hammering so there's no reason for me not to vote my conviction, so I might as well put it out there as a valid option.

What do you think of the underlined section in 254, what possible town motivation could exist for Amished twisting the facts of the situation so egregiously.
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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Fri May 22, 2009 5:58 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

I'm gonna wait for Amished to answer.

One of the two of you is probably scum, so I think watching you two go at it a little bit might help me make a decision.
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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Fri May 22, 2009 2:54 pm

Post by Sajin »

I think KMD is the least likely scum in this situation, unfortunately he is not my partner.


At DDD- Your not even making a case on our pairing. Do it or I vote you and yes I want more of a reason why its ok to disprove and prove something using the same logic.


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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Fri May 22, 2009 5:19 pm

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Sajin wrote:At DDD- Your not even making a case on our pairing. Do it or I vote you and yes I want more of a reason why its ok to disprove and prove something using the same logic.
Sent you a PM, but might as well ask the question here as well. What do you mean by case in this context?
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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Fri May 22, 2009 6:34 pm

Post by Sajin »

Why am I scum? Thats what I mean.
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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Fri May 22, 2009 6:50 pm

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Sajin wrote:Why am I scum? Thats what I mean.
I don't understand, why would I build a case on someone I don't believe is scum?
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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Fri May 22, 2009 7:14 pm

Post by Sajin »

Then you don't deserve a win here as scum or town. You have never suspected me in the least the entire thread. You answered my questions with questions so you did not have to commit.

KMD I await your opinion on this.
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Fri May 22, 2009 7:34 pm

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Sajin wrote:Then you don't deserve a win here as scum or town. You have never suspected me in the least the entire thread. You answered my questions with questions so you did not have to commit.

KMD I await your opinion on this.
And you never answered my question. Probably because there isn't a good answer. Why should I fake interest in one player who the evidence leads me to believe is town and there's another player I believe to be scum?

Won't be around tomorrow during the day, full case on Amished to be written up but probably not till well after midnight.
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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Fri May 22, 2009 8:03 pm

Post by Sajin »

Because to not prod your partner is scummy as you cannot win as town in this situation if your not going to consider the possibility of your partner being mafia.
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Sat May 23, 2009 4:53 am

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Sajin wrote: KMD I await your opinion on this.
I find myself agreeing with you. DDD has pretty much given you a free pass. He just said that "evidence" leads him to believe you are town, but hasn't said why. He really hasn't looked at you at all. He was set on lynching Kirroha and is now set on lynching Amished. I think he planned the entire game from Day 1. Buss Kirroha and then go after the town/town pairs for the win.

Vote DDD
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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Sat May 23, 2009 5:21 am

Post by Sajin »

What ever happened to your waiting for amished kmd?
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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Sat May 23, 2009 5:30 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Sajin wrote:What ever happened to your waiting for amished kmd?
Your exchange with DDD reinforces my original thought that DDD is scummier than Amished.
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Sat May 23, 2009 5:49 am

Post by Sajin »

Well whatever. DDDs refusal to even suspect me makes it clear what I must do. I find that if I am wrong its probably Amished. Shrug. Sorry if I am wrong all.

unvote; vote DDD
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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Sat May 23, 2009 5:49 am

Post by Sajin »

/dies
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