Mini 170 - Time Travel Mafia, Game Over!

DarkLight140 · Post Post #125 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:10 pm

Well, there's not exactly enough time to dramatically reverse all our votes- something under an hour, at this point. I'll go with the evidence against SapphireVerde.

Unvote, Vote: SapphireVerde

. The backup doctor very well may not have a time machine, but it's a role claim too scummy not to lynch, and at this late our with not-so-great play under pressure anyway...

mathcam · Post Post #126 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:45 pm

Official End-Of-Day Vote Count:

Sapphire (4, Electra, Axelrod, Fuldu, Crola)
Electra (3, MoS, Sapphire, Mgm)

Not Voting: Nanook, DarkLight140, SubtleTactix, DragonSlayer

And with that, night 2 begins.

SapphreVerde (non-townie)

, has been lynched.

Get those night choices in!

Cam

mathcam · Post Post #127 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:25 am

It was just pointed out to me that there were some errors in the last vote count (though the correct lynch was made). I think they've been fixed now. Sorry about that.

Keep those night choices a-comin'!

Cam

mathcam · Post Post #128 (ISO) » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:03 am

The following is your new history, as posted in the front post.

Current History

:

Night 1

You awake to find that armlx, townie, has been killed.
You awake to find that Mgm, non-townie, has been killed.

Day 1

You lynch SapphireVerde (non-townie) with the following vote count:

SapphireVerde (4, Electra, Axelrod, Fuldu, Crola)
Electra (2, MoS, Sapphire)
Not Voting: Nanook, DarkLight140, SubtleTactix, DragonSlayer
Dead: armlx, Mgm

Night 2

You awake to find that Fuldu, townie, has been killed.

Day 2

:
In progress.

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Mgm · Post Post #129 (ISO) » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:52 am

bah!

mathcam · Post Post #130 (ISO) » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:31 am

mathcam wrote:3) Once you are deceased, also decease from posting. Because of possible back-to-life issues, do not post anything else until/unless you are brought back to life.

Just a friendly reminder.

And I forgot to set a deadline, so let's call it

7 days from this post

. As always, this is moveable.

Cam

Crola · Post Post #131 (ISO) » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:14 am

Crap! Two kills in one night! We have MGM who dies, so someone went back in time to kill him, yet he was non-town, hmmmm. Also, Fuldu was killed, but no time travel was used.

Now, we have two Townies: Fuldu and armlx
and 2 non-townies: Sapph and MgM
as of now, I still think Sapph was on the scummy side, she almost seemed happy to die, as if expecting to be revived for sure, whereas Mgm seemed less scummy, again these are my opinions, they could have both been mafia, both been town power roles or one or the other.

Also, I'd like to point out that the doc didn't do anything. Maybe Sapph or MGM was a doc. The only thing is, if MGM was a doc, he still should have been able to protect, and Sapp said she had no time machine (which is a lie), but I'm sure the doc would have a time machine, and probably wouldn't lie about it. So, assuming anything of what I said makes sense (and it does to me) then we didn't kill the doc, but if this is so, why didn't he/she protect?

Electra · Post Post #132 (ISO) » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:34 am

Crola wrote:Crap! Two kills in one night! We have MGM who dies, so someone went back in time to kill him, yet he was non-town, hmmmm. Also, Fuldu was killed, but no time travel was used.

Now, we have two Townies: Fuldu and armlx
and 2 non-townies: Sapph and MgM
as of now, I still think Sapph was on the scummy side, she almost seemed happy to die, as if expecting to be revived for sure, whereas Mgm seemed less scummy, again these are my opinions, they could have both been mafia, both been town power roles or one or the other.

Also, I'd like to point out that the doc didn't do anything. Maybe Sapph or MGM was a doc. The only thing is, if MGM was a doc, he still should have been able to protect, and Sapp said she had no time machine (which is a lie), but I'm sure the doc would have a time machine, and probably wouldn't lie about it. So, assuming anything of what I said makes sense (and it does to me) then we didn't kill the doc, but if this is so, why didn't he/she protect?

Maybe someone roleblocked the doc, or prevented them from time travelling, since I'm pretty sure no one went back in time to kill armlx again with the two deaths tonight.

Oh, and sorry for not posting yesterday much, I've been having this cache bug where new posts don't show up until I refresh several times. Got me lynched in Mute Mafia too. xD;;

Axelrod · Post Post #133 (ISO) » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:08 pm

Gah! What happened? Two kills? Do the mafia have extra kills, or do we have a rogue vigilante on our hands?

I think Sapphire may have spoken truth. If so, however, I think there is a good chance Mgm was the actual Doc. If the mafia (or a rogue time-travelling vigilante) went back in time and killed Mgm night one, then Mgm wouldn't have gotten a protection in, I think. That might explain why Armix is still dead. (unless the actual Doc just decided not to revive him)(which means Mgm might actually have been mafia)(which means...bah.)

Another possibility, someone time travelled night one and made a kill night two.

Any way you look at it, this is not good.

SubtleTactix · Post Post #134 (ISO) » Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:06 pm

Just a heads up: I'm going to a conference this weekend and won't be able to post until late Sunday night.

--Tactix

DarkLight140 · Post Post #135 (ISO) » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:15 pm

Huh. At the rate this game's moving, you won't miss anything.

I don't see why someone would travel to Night Two on Night One- what with the limited fuel, it seems like it would be wasteful and more than a little risky. In fact, going to the future at all seems wasteful and more than a little risky, no matter your role. So, since we've ended up with an extra kill today, I would guess we've got a vig in the works. Beyond that... I don't know. Even looking back at what people said, I can see either the mafia or the vig potentially killing either person...

Crola · Post Post #136 (ISO) » Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:08 am

Okay, so, here's the question, were Mgm and SapphireVerde good or bad?
I have the feeling Mgm was the doc, now assuming there's no docs left (due to lack of visible healing) we might have a nurse or one shot doc. Assuming Mgm's the doctor, then the one shot doc could go back in time and save Mgm.

Now, here's a completely different way of looking at things. What if we just get the doc (assuming we have one left) to revive only townies, then we kill only non-town roles whether scum or not. This way we can ensure the killing of scum, even at the expense of the cop and vig. Despite how good this plan is, it's way too idealistic, and may or may not work. It's just an idea we can vote on.

NanookTheWolf · Post Post #137 (ISO) » Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:15 am

I know that I responded to this game like 2 days ago, but I guess the post didn't go through. The jist of the post, I basically was saying that the reason Sapphire didn't have a time machine yet, is because since she was a back-up doc, maybe she didn't get her time machine til the real doc was killed.

It's just a thought, and I wish I could write more atm, but I'm already late for work.

Crola · Post Post #138 (ISO) » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:10 pm

NanookTheWolf wrote:I know that I responded to this game like 2 days ago, but I guess the post didn't go through. The jist of the post, I basically was saying that the reason Sapphire didn't have a time machine yet, is because since she was a back-up doc, maybe she didn't get her time machine til the real doc was killed.

It's just a thought, and I wish I could write more atm, but I'm already late for work.

No, Nanook, you're wrong, mathcam said

everyone

had a time machine, that doesn't mean she'll get one later, it means she already had one and lied. If we look back, you'll see the townies were left in the dark when someone mentioned the amount of fuel used for each travel. This is because townies can't travel through time. I assume that Sapph just used the "I have no time machine" excuse to look like a townie. She was most likely scum.

Dragon Slayer · Post Post #139 (ISO) » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:58 pm

Now, here's a completely different way of looking at things. What if we just get the doc (assuming we have one left) to revive only townies, then we kill only non-town roles whether scum or not. This way we can ensure the killing of scum, even at the expense of the cop and vig.

That would probably come back to bite as in the ass. But maybe it's worth considering. Any other opinions on this?

We should also be sure to remember to take vote counts into consideration. For instance, MgM may have been killed because of his vote on day one. If Sapphire would ever be killed night one, then Electra would be lynched (right?). This is just a random example though, I find this highly unlikely. Though it's not inconceivable that the mafia would pick their targets based on who was voting them previous days. I think it's safe to say Sapphire was definitely the back up doc. Or actually, she's definitely not mafia. If she was, the mafia would have killed Fuldu night one, instead of two, in an attempt to save Sapphire.

There's so many possibilities.

DarkLight140 · Post Post #140 (ISO) » Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:52 pm

DS: Don't start thinking that way, because you can always start playing doublethink games. Any logical reasoning that depends on the mafia saving their own players, but then coincidentally making those players look like mafia by their very resurrection, means that they could firstly easily frame people with that kind of scheme, and secondly means that they could start trying to trick the doc into saving their members. I'm starting to think we should assume all dead non-townie players to be mafia, except, perhaps, those resurrected if someone goes back to a previous night and kills someone (meaning the player who was killed was either a mafia or a vigilante, and their victims live again). As far as I know, we've got no way of telling otherwise.

Crola: I don't think the 'kill all non-townies' plan would work, because everyone- even pro-town roles- would claim townie. There's no reason not to, because there's no way that the doc has enough time fuel to correct all mistakes. The only people claiming townies that we could be sure of would be the resurrected few, who would quickly die off; we wouldn't even be able to tell if people who lied were pro-town and trying to save themselves from what they'd see as a misguided town to buy more time to work with their abilities or lying mafia trying to, well, be mafia.

Crola · Post Post #141 (ISO) » Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:31 am

Okay, so we combine the plans, and

only

revive townies. If we do this though, we better have really good luck at lynching scum, and when I say scum, I mean Non-town(preferably scummy non-town). (although, this would be the case with any plan)

Axelrod · Post Post #142 (ISO) » Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:27 pm

Well my earlier post seems to have not gone through (what's up with these forums anyway?)

What I said was that only reviving townies was safer (assuming that we still have the capability to revive anyone at this point), but that I think there are also ways to identify the alignment of the dead--crime scene/corpse investigators. That kind of role only makes sense in a game like this.

Also, any "non-town" who turns up dead that we didn't lynch is probably innocent (unless there is a SK in this game, who travelled to night two to make his first kill, and obviously travelled again this night. Seems unlikely).

Crola · Post Post #143 (ISO) » Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:37 pm

Axelrod wrote:Well my earlier post seems to have not gone through (what's up with these forums anyway?)

What I said was that only reviving townies was safer (assuming that we still have the capability to revive anyone at this point), but that I think there are also ways to identify the alignment of the dead--crime scene/corpse investigators. That kind of role only makes sense in a game like this.

Also, any "non-town" who turns up dead that we didn't lynch is probably innocent (unless there is a SK in this game, who travelled to night two to make his first kill, and obviously travelled again this night. Seems unlikely).

Or if there's a vigilante. I don't like your logic Axel. You're saying we should go against everything we've said before and revive non-townies. Are you claiming "role investigator" because if you're not I disagree.
The mafia knows way too much, they know who we are, and there no way to know who they are. This puts us at a major disadvantage, one which I will not let the mafia exploit. I say no revival of non-town. SOme of you may agree but you'll say "no revival of non-town unless we're sure they're good"
No, I disagree with this quote, because we won't know if they're good. Axel just gave the Mafia a great claim, they could claime "role investigator." Even if we trust that claim, we can't verify if we revive mafia or not. I say leave the dead, dead, except for the townies. Townies' lives should be placed before all others.
This is of course assuming we have a doc. With or without one, I'm placing my vote on Axel.

Unvote Vote Axel

. It's gonna take some firm evidence to remove my vote, or a persuasive argument.

Electra · Post Post #144 (ISO) » Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:39 pm

... Crola, have you ever been in a time travel game before?

Axelrod · Post Post #145 (ISO) » Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:56 pm

Ok Crola, maybe you didn't quite understand what I said. Let me try again. Reviving only townies is

safer

. Meaning this is the thing that is probably best to do. I thought Armix should have been revived last night. And the fact he wasn't makes me concerned that Mgm was the Doc.

BUT, there

will

be ways to identify the dead in this game. (No I am not just speculating here. I did go and read 2 old time travel games before and both had roles like that.) That kind of role makes perfect sense in a game like this. It makes sense in any game where roles are not revealed upon death. How else is the town to know when they get a mafia? It's just logical.

I

also

said the SK idea was

unlikely

. Meaning I don't think that's what happened. What I actually think happened is that a Vig. decided to use his kill last night.

That was quite a bit of twisting you just did. If I weren't pretty sure you were a basic townie, I might suspect you for that.

SubtleTactix · Post Post #146 (ISO) » Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:06 pm

I think a role-claim at this point will help shed some light on this subject. I am the vigilante, and here is an important statement:

*** I did NOT use my Night 2 action to travel to Night 1 and kill Mgm. ***

As a result, I am very confident that we have an SK on our hands. If that is correct, then probably both mafia and SK acted Night 1. But there was only one kill on Night 1 originally. So here are some possibilities:

A. Mafia and SK targeted armlx night one.
B. There will be an attempted future kill, by a scum group.
C. A doc protected somebody night one
D. A roleblocker stopped the SK night one.

D would be great, C would be good, B is not very likely. I worry most about A. Why? Because that means our doc may have spent time fuel last night to protect armlx, only to find that he is still dead (b/c he was targeted twice).

So, if the doc is still alive out there, cursing their luck, they could try to revive armlx AGAIN tonight, or they could try to revive Fuldu. A confirmed townie would definitely be an asset. I guess the positive side of this is that the doc could still very much be alive.

Notice that Mgm CANNOT be the SK: Suppose he were; then clearly he didn't go back in time to kill himself, so it must have been the mafia that did that. That means Mgm would have targeted Fuldu on night two -- except he wouldn't be alive to do it! So Mgm is not the serial killer. He COULD still be mafia.

DS makes an interesting argument about how Mafia would have killed Fuldu on night one in an effort to save SV, if SV were Mafia. I think the real explanation is that the mafia overlooked this strategy. SV's defense in the end was so bizarre I have a hard time believing it. Especially since Fuldu, a confirmed townie, pointed out how her defense contradicted statements made my mathcam at the start of the game. I like our lynch of SV, and for now I'm assuming that she was mafia.

Now, during day one, we had a request for an extension of the deadline, while SV was the leading vote getter. People who specifically requested an extension were Axelrod, Crola, DL140, Mgm, Nanook, and Fuldu. Now while it was certainly a reasonable request from a townie, I think it would also make sense for a mafioso to "chime in" on the request in order to buy some more time for SV.

We know Fuldu is a townie. I think Crola is probably a townie, based on her "inadvertent role-claim" statement on day one (plus she was the most pro-saving-armlx of the six). Mgm is dead. That leaves three names, and I'm inclined to vote for Nanook off that list. He purports that SV could really be the backup doc, which I just find really hard to believe at this point. So, until a better case gets made...

Vote: Nanook

--Tactix

Dragon Slayer · Post Post #147 (ISO) » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:20 pm

I'm uncomfortable with your claim, but agree with some things you said in there.

Dragon Slayer · Post Post #148 (ISO) » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:21 pm

Forgot to add a request to an investigative role to investigate him tonight.

Dragon Slayer · Post Post #149 (ISO) » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:24 pm

GAh!

Sorry for the triple (and all short, I need to refrain from the temptation of the submit button).

Reviving only townies is the best idea. It will give us an extra person for the mafia to kill again, and obviously will not be lynched. This would mean at the end we may get it narrowed down to only normal townies and one non-town. How ideal.

Vote only revive townies.

And that should start tonight.