Newbie 774 - Spegezzironi: Game Over! TOWN WINS!

[Sotty7]

How about you explain both of those votes? We are in lylo which means if we don't lynch right it's game over. It also means one misplaced vote could lead to a scum pile on.

No one vote until we have had plenty of discussion.

[SensFan]

Vote: Santos

I'm a Cop, he's Scum.

Night 1, Scotty-Innocent
Night 2, Santos-Scum

---

Everyone, in your very next post, has to say if they are counter-claiming me or not.

[Santos]

Well, that confirms it folks.

semioldguy/SensFan

I believe we should post our likely scum pairings before you truly think about lynching me.

[Santos]

@Scotty, I posted those votes to see if anyone was watching the thread after sekinj opened it up. But since no one was around, I removed the votes to wait for discussion. Basically, it was an attempt to get a scum to bandwagon if they were watching the thread.

(Believe me, I've learned my lesson in these last day scenarios and they're awful to vote someone before discussing everyone's theories of who is scum.)

So, I don't plan on voting unless we all agree who the scum are.

[Sotty7]

Everyone, in your very next post, has to say if they are counter-claiming me or not.

No counter claim here, but could you explain your investigation choices?

Well, that confirms it folks.

semioldguy/SensFan

I believe we should post our likely scum pairings before you truly think about lynching me.

Why semioldguy?

[Santos]

Because I still believe he is scum. Nothing has convinced me otherwise, especially in the lynches the past two days. Scun have had an easy ride and has steered most of us the wrong way. I sure as hell am still wondering why ppl lynched cpe. That was an absurd call by all the lynchers.

[SensFan]

Everyone, in your very next post, has to say if they are counter-claiming me or not.

No counter claim here, but could you explain your investigation choices?

Sure.

Scotty (Night 1) - I couldn't read you really the first day. The combination of that, and you being the other IC, made you the logical investigation choice.

Santos (Night 2) - He was suspected by several, and Johoohno hadn't been easy to read (and could no longer account for his actions). I didn't want to be in LyLo without knowing his alignment.

---

Also of note:
If Santos was Town, I'd be confirmed Scum right now. There is absolutely no reason for him not to be voting me if he was Town, whereas Scum might be tentative of how natural it would seem to vote me right after I voted him.

[ckool5000]

Everyone, in your very next post, has to say if they are counter-claiming me or not.

No counter claim from me.

[ckool5000]

I very easily see a semioldguy/Santos pairing, but I'm also having trouble believing that Sotty7 is innocent.

You know what time it is? It's...

Vote Chart Time!

(Confirmed Town in bold)

Sotty7

Day one

Ckool5000

Lamont_Cranston

FoS: Johoohno

Day two

Ckool5000
Hammer’d

cpe

Johoohno/Santos

Day one

RustythePirate

Day two

Santos replaces
Semioldguy
Claims townie

Day three

Semioldguy
Sotty7

Sensfan

Day one

Sotty7
RustythePirate
Ckool5000
Johoohno

Cpe

L_C

Day two

Ckool5000
Semioldguy

Day three

Claims cop with Sotty innocent and Santos scum
Santos

Treeshavenotounges/semioldguy

Day one

Perpetuum
Semioldguy joins in
Hammer’d

L_C

Day two

RustythePirate

Cpe

[SensFan]

I very easily see a semioldguy/Santos pairing, but I'm also having trouble believing that Sotty7 is innocent.

If I am Town, Scotty is Town.
Therefore, is Scotty is Scum, I must be Scum.

So if you think Scotty is Scum, then you think the Scumpair is Sens/Scotty, and that both ICs are Scum.

[Santos]

SensFan, a question:

This is a Newbie F11 Setup. The structure of the game has been randomly chosen from one of the below:

- 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Doctor, 5 Townspeople
- 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 7 Townspeople
- 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Cop, 6 Townspeople
- 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Doctor, 6 Townspeople

How can we trust you are the cop? There is no way to prove that you are telling the truth unless we are in setup 1 in which the doctor would be obligated to claim (which is BAD)
or setup 3 in which we would have to look back at your posting style this game. And see if you are a scum claiming cop to ensure you look as pro town as possible because your play so far has appeared neither scummy nor town. You have not scumhunted from what I can remember, but only provided short, snide posts at other players which in no way displays allegiance, just aggression towards play style.

If you are indeed the cop, then you are NOT a sane cop because word per word I am townie as described in the Newbie F11 setup. So basically, everyone would have to trust you. Well I'm not, sorry.

So how does everyone else trust you? They shouldn't, IMO, but given that you 'have the experience' you could definitely be the trickiest scum claimer they've ever seen; but I'm not buying it.

So, I am ready to vote because this is what I know:

1) He is scum claiming cop. A REAL cop does not get guilty results in Newbie F11 setups because I am townie.
2) He is scum either covering his partner Scotty (which would be simply stupid) or he is KNOWINGLY saying that Scotty is townie because he is scum and knows she's townie via setup 3.
3) His vote on his partner semioldguy in Day 2 was to divert the town's attention away from him the rest of the day which played it safe for him to claim cop on Day 3.

Vote: SensFan

Town, I hope you make the right decision, because IT CANNOT FAIL lynching SensFan as the real cop because that would contradict the game setup appointed by the host.

Also, we cannot ignore the fact that ckcool/Scoty might also be his partner, but as I stated before I believe semioldguy/SensFan are our scum in this game.

GL

[SensFan]

SensFan, a question:

This is a Newbie F11 Setup. The structure of the game has been randomly chosen from one of the below:

- 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Doctor, 5 Townspeople
- 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 7 Townspeople
- 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Cop, 6 Townspeople
- 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Doctor, 6 Townspeople

How can we trust you are the cop?

There is no way to prove that you are telling the truth unless we are in setup 1 in which the doctor would be obligated to claim (which is BAD)
or setup 3 in which we would have to look back at your posting style this game. And see if you are a scum claiming cop to ensure you look as pro town as possible because your play so far has appeared neither scummy nor town. You have not scumhunted from what I can remember, but only provided short, snide posts at other players which in no way displays allegiance, just aggression towards play style.

If you are indeed the cop, then you are NOT a sane cop

because word per word I am townie as described in the Newbie F11 setup. So basically,

everyone would have to trust you. Well I'm not, sorry.

So how does everyone else trust you? They shouldn't, IMO, but given that you 'have the experience' you could definitely be the trickiest scum claimer they've ever seen; but

I'm not buying it.

So, I am ready to vote because this is what I know:

1) He is scum claiming cop. A REAL cop does not get guilty results in Newbie F11 setups because I am townie.
2) He is scum either covering his partner Scotty (which would be simply stupid) or he is KNOWINGLY saying that Scotty is townie because he is scum and knows she's townie via setup 3.
3) His vote on his partner semioldguy in Day 2 was to divert the town's attention away from him the rest of the day which played it safe for him to claim cop on Day 3.

Vote: SensFan

Town, I hope you make the right decision, because IT CANNOT FAIL lynching SensFan as the real cop because that would contradict the game setup appointed by the host.

Also, we cannot ignore the fact that ckcool/Scoty might also be his partner, but as I stated before I believe semioldguy/SensFan are our scum in this game.

GL

Why so much doubt, Santos?
If you were Town, there wouldn't be a SINGLE question in your mind that I am Scum. But all the points I bolded show that you're trying to figure out whether I'm Scum, or that you're deciding 'not to believe' me.

As I said before, if Santos was Town, there would be no doubt in his mind. The reason you are seeing so much hesitation and doubt from him is because he is Scum, and thinks that it might look too scummy for him just to vote me for having claimed a Guilty on him.
Even after I pointed out that SantosTown would have voted me simply for claiming a Guilty on him, he still didn't do it; Scum usually hesistate to do anything someone says they would be doing as Town.
In short, he got caught by me, and has no idea how to try and get out of it, and the unnaturalism of his reaction shows that plainly. Town don't need to try and figure out what is natural, Town would know immediately that anyone claiming a Guilty on them has to be Scum.

By the way Santos. You say that the Town has no reason to trust me 100%, and that's completely true. But Scum also doesn't know if there is or isn't a Cop in the set-up, there's a 50-50 chance. Now, its LyLo already, and no Scum have been lynched. So what possible reason would SensScum have to fakeclaim Cop with a Guilty and an Innocent, both on alive players?

If I was Scum:
*If Scotty was the Cop, I'm outed as Scum
*If someone other than you/Scotty was the Cop, both you and them would know I was Scum

That would be an absolutely stupid risk to take; if I were Scum I'd be playing it safe today and looking for a mislynch, especially since its not like I was a top suspect of anyone.

[sekinj]

Day 3: Vote Count 17

(# of votes against) Voted Player - by Voter(s)

(0) ckool5000 - by none

(1) Santos - by SensFan

(0) semioldguy - by none

(1) SensFan - by Santos

(0) Sotty7 - by none

Not Voting: ckool5000; semioldguy; Sotty7

With five (5) citizens alive it takes

three (3) votes to lynch.

Day 3 Deadline: 6/07/09 12:00 PM CST

Please PM me if I have missed anything.

[Santos]

Cops don't get guilty results on townies, dude. You're lying so much you're horizontal with the Earth.

[SensFan]

Cops don't get guilty results on townies, dude. You're lying so much you're horizontal with the Earth.

You repeating over and over again that you're a Townie won't convince anyone.
I've explained why you're Scum beyond the fact that I know it through investigation. Your response to this reeks of someone who has no clue how aggressively he can push without looking scummy.

[semioldguy]

No counter-claim here.

@Scotty, I posted those votes to see if anyone was watching the thread after sekinj opened it up. But since no one was around, I removed the votes to wait for discussion. Basically, it was an attempt to get a scum to bandwagon if they were watching the thread.

Your three posts of voting and unvoting were not even two minutes apart. How would this have gotten anyone to bandwagon if they were watching the thread? There was literally no time anyone could have voted anyway before you unvoted.

[Santos]

Just vote old man if you're so sure. You know who you are, just leave it up for others to decide. I've presented the facts and they are undeniable: cops in newbie F11 setups do not investigate townies to be guilty. Period.

[SensFan]

Just vote old man if you're so sure. You know who you are, just leave it up for others to decide.

I've presented the facts and they are undeniable: cops in newbie F11 setups do not investigate townies to be guilty. Period.

You can't just say you're a Townie over and over again and expect people to eventually just trust you

[Sotty7]

I very easily see a semioldguy/Santos pairing, but I'm also having trouble believing that Sotty7 is innocent.

Why?

Also, your voting chart really doesn't help at all unless you are going to provide us with some analysis with it. Just posting up the voting records alone and expecting that it proves or helps in anyway is crazy. Townies vote townies, it happens all the time, so I have no idea what your point with post 408 is.

1) He is scum claiming cop. A REAL cop does not get guilty results in Newbie F11 setups because I am townie.
2) He is scum either covering his partner Scotty (which would be simply stupid) or he is KNOWINGLY saying that Scotty is townie because he is scum and knows she's townie via setup 3.
3) His vote on his partner semioldguy in Day 2 was to divert the town's attention away from him the rest of the day which played it safe for him to claim cop on Day 3.

Point one is something I am considering right now. Considering this is lylo, claiming cop is a valid play in this situation. It could lead to the last mislynch the scum need for the win. This is why I am not so quick to just believe Sens, even though he has found me innocent.

Point two useless at this point until we know Sens alignment for sure. His investigation choices seem to line up pretty well with what happened. I'm just not ready to throw my vote out there just yet. Mostly because since replacing in Santos has felt pretty townie to me. Just the tone of his posts really... I could be way off here, but that's what my gut is telling me. However I found Johoohno to be pretty scummy.

As for Sens I haven't found him overly scummy, but he hasn't been all that helpful either. He also lurked away the end of the day yesterday, so I am unsure at this point.

Santos, you must be very sure about semioldguy in regards to point three. I am there with you honestly. Semi is another player that I don't think has done a lot to help the town. I think it is likely he is scum at this point.

Why so much doubt, Santos?
If you were Town, there wouldn't be a SINGLE question in your mind that I am Scum. But all the points I bolded show that you're trying to figure out whether I'm Scum, or that you're deciding 'not to believe' me.

As I said before, if Santos was Town, there would be no doubt in his mind. The reason you are seeing so much hesitation and doubt from him is because he is Scum, and thinks that it might look too scummy for him just to vote me for having claimed a Guilty on him.
Even after I pointed out that SantosTown would have voted me simply for claiming a Guilty on him, he still didn't do it; Scum usually hesistate to do anything someone says they would be doing as Town.
In short, he got caught by me, and has no idea how to try and get out of it, and the unnaturalism of his reaction shows that plainly. Town don't need to try and figure out what is natural, Town would know immediately that anyone claiming a Guilty on them has to be Scum.

By the way Santos. You say that the Town has no reason to trust me 100%, and that's completely true. But Scum also doesn't know if there is or isn't a Cop in the set-up, there's a 50-50 chance. Now, its LyLo already, and no Scum have been lynched. So what possible reason would SensScum have to fakeclaim Cop with a Guilty and an Innocent, both on alive players?

If I was Scum:
*If Scotty was the Cop, I'm outed as Scum
*If someone other than you/Scotty was the Cop, both you and them would know I was Scum

That would be an absolutely stupid risk to take; if I were Scum I'd be playing it safe today and looking for a mislynch, especially since its not like I was a top suspect of anyone.

Sens has a point. Still I just get a sense of newb town from Santos right now. The way he is continually questioning the sanity of Sens, makes me think he is a townie with little to no experience with the newbie games.

Also with two scum left, fake claiming cop is a valid play especially with a “guilty” on one player. It could be an attempt for a quick lynch. That said, I will say that scum fake claiming right at the start of the day when hardly any other players had posted would be a big risk. The scum wouldn't know if the town had a cop or not so it would be a gamble.

Just vote old man if you're so sure. You know who you are, just leave it up for others to decide. I've presented the facts and they are undeniable: cops in newbie F11 setups do not investigate townies to be guilty. Period.

You realize this argument makes no sense right?

Also, my name isn't scotty.

[ckool5000]

I found Johoohno to be very scummy, and now Santos keeps contradicting himself and keeps calling himself townie. By the way Sotty7, his argument does make sense, except it's a terrible and obvious argument. Also, Sens is correct about if you were town, then you shouldn't have a doubt about who's scum, but you keep questioning yourself. Let's not forget how dumb it would be for scum to fake-claim a cop right now. Plus, it seems like Santos was trying to drag semioldguy in the line of fire in post 402.

I'm sorry, but... Wait a second, I'm not sorry for dirty scum!

vote:

Santos

Please vote in the format

Vote: Sharen

if you would like your vote to count.

[Santos]

I found Johoohno to be very scummy, and now Santos keeps contradicting himself and keeps calling himself townie.

Where?

By the way Sotty7, his argument does make sense, except it's a terrible and obvious argument.

How does it not make sense? I've looked at all the possibilities of the situation. You're the one not making sense.

Also, Sens is correct about if you were town, then you shouldn't have a doubt about who's scum, but you keep questioning yourself.

Where is Sens correct about IF I was town? Where am I doubting who is scum? Where am I questioning myself? ckool5000, you'd make the world's worst lawyer if you walked into a courtroom and stated observations like the above without any proof. You've got to be kidding me man.

Let's not forget how dumb it would be for scum to fake-claim a cop right now.

Let's not forget how easy it would be for scum to claim cop even if there was another legitimate cop in the setup. Have you considered those possibilities and how SensFan would be experienced enough to argue against a cop counter-claim? Why are you not seeing all the possibilities and only limiting yourself to one-sided scenarios? You're clearly not a very good mafia player if you can't observe all sides of arguments.

Plus, it seems like Santos was trying to drag semioldguy in the line of fire in post 402.

Again, are you joking me with this? Was I not adamant about lynching semioldguy all day yesterday!!?? ckool5000, you've got to be the worse mafia player I've ever seen. You clearly don't understand my objectives from the past and because of that you are going to lynch a townie based off one crap post that will forever be heralded as pathetic: post 419.

Lastly, you're either:
1) A terrible player on the town side
2) A mindful scum player that knows to vote now and hope one of the real townies will agree with your atrocious post.

----------------------------------------------

You can't just say you're a

Townie

COP

over and over again and expect people to eventually just trust you

[Santos]

dammit, i hit submit before I was finished.

[Santos]

Post 420 continued:

Sens has a point. Still I just get a sense of newb town from Santos right now. The way he is continually questioning the sanity of Sens, makes me think he is a townie with little to no experience with the newbie games.

Sotty, the reason I am even at all bringing up the 'sanity' issue is the plain fact that there is no 'sanity' issue in Newbie F11 games. So because of my role and SensFan's claim, I know he is lying based off F11.

Also with two scum left, fake claiming cop is a valid play especially with a “guilty” on one player. It could be an attempt for a quick lynch. That said, I will say that scum fake claiming right at the start of the day when hardly any other players had posted would be a big risk. The scum wouldn't know if the town had a cop or not so it would be a gamble.

They certainly know it would be risky. But if this fake claim was in the hands of an experienced player such as SensFan, then its certainly a very good gamble because he definitely would have the ammunition to get the REAL cop lynched because he was the first to claim and his play is very cop-like by distancing himself in the previous days. SensFan is pulling a brilliant scum move right now and I'll be damned impressed if he tricks everyone into believing him.

You realize this argument makes no sense right?

Why?

Also, my name isn't scotty.

Apologies, there is a lot of text to read and when the o in your name looks like a 'c' my brain is just registering 'scotty' instead of 'sotty' because I'm obviously brainwashed into a more familiar word as opposed to a more foreign one.

[ckool5000]

Hey Santos... Guess what? It was an attempt at getting the scum to reveal themselves by thinking that they were hammering and revealing that they were scum... I wasn't planning on actually voting for you just yet, and I haven't really organized my thoughts very well at this time... So... Yeah.

[ckool5000]

The easiest way for me to say what I was trying to say was "I believe and agree with Sensfan"... But of course, that's not considered to be the proper way of saying something like that... But that's pretty much the best way

I [/] can say it, so...
I believe and agree with Sensfan, but just not enough to vote for you.