Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[StrangerCoug]

So Battousai, what are your opinions on everybody?

[Battousai]

I'm going to wait for Sajin to answer my question first. It may have an impact on Sajin and/or you.

[Korlash]

I'm almost to the point where I just want to vote no lynch to move the game along... Sadly about a billion and a half exaggerated things all sprang up at once so my time is being pulled in all directions which means this game has fell pretty low on my charts...

[Sajin]

137
171 -defensive
235-defensive
330- Blanket list of people that are scummy
372- Long post mostly on defense from firestarter's posts.
472- Is incredibly defensive
515-517
573- He tells me we will discuss this later and does not really do so
579- More defensive posting against alexhans
615- More OMGUS against alexhans
627- More defense from SC
587- Could be a possible scumtell, telling alexhans he is digging his own grave.

I would say a majority of SC's posts while in this game were him trying to defend himself. I find said behavior scummy. Its not just against my attacks.

My question for Batt- Could you have not done something like this yourself?

[StrangerCoug]

137

What do you want us to know about this post?

171 -defensive

The way Firestarter wrote #170 implied a connection between Issac and me, which was not supported by his earlier posts. I wanted to get ahold of his thinking regarding this connection.

235-defensive

Ditto my defense for #171. I cannot defend against the invisible.

330- Blanket list of people that are scummy

How is reminding people of my suspicions, which are supported by my earlier posts, creating a blanket list?

372- Long post mostly on defense from firestarter's posts.

And what, exactly, is your problem with this?

472- Is incredibly defensive

I believe I was mostly on the attacking end with this post, not the defending end.

515-517

What do you want us to know about these posts?

573- He tells me we will discuss this later and does not really do so

I did not see a reason to do so after #628, given it seemed as if your suspicions of me went down between those two posts.

579- More defensive posting against alexhans

Only about half of #579 is a defense—I'm actually all over the map here. Some of it is an attack, one point is something I frowned upon but didn't warrant pushing, and another point isn't really a point at all, but my not being ready to take a stance on a specific part of alexhans vs. Kairyuu.

615- More OMGUS against alexhans

Reiterating a legitimate case ≠ OMGUS.

627- More defense from SC

Defending is not in and of itself a scumtell. Otherwise, it'd be pretty easy for the Mafia to win.

587- Could be a possible scumtell, telling alexhans he is digging his own grave.

alexhans was clearly scummy.

[Battousai]

137- I don't get how that shows SC overreacting or anything really
171- SC is not overreacting/defending here. This post is pretty reasonable.
235- Still not seeing anything scummy here
330- He mentions two people that he is wary of. Not a blanket list. However, I do find it anti-town of him to deman a self-hammer, even if Fire wasn't scumhunting
372- That post was mostly SC answering questions of him. The rest was mainly him defending himself accordingly.
472- Is not incredibly defensive
515-517- You present a bad case on SC and vote him. Then call OMGUS on SC for calling you out on it and voting you for it. It may be an overreaction, though, but out of it you come off a hell of a lot more scummy, especially when you refuse to give a solid case on SC because you feel SC would twist it (ala defend himself).
573- I find it reasonable to believe that he forgot about this case and discussing it more.
579- No, Alex wanted to know what parts of the case against him SC agrees with, so SC answered him. Not doing so would have been scummy
615- Alex asked for a repeat of SC's case, and SC gave the bare minimum. I don't see how this is OMGUS
627- SC is not defending himself... since you did not give him anything to defend. He wanted you to present your case instead of being afraid of him having a countercase. (see he did go back on that case you had of him, post 573).
587- I don't understand how this could be a scumtell

Could you have not done something like this yourself?

Yes, I would have acted similarly to SC in most of those instances.

So Battousai, what are your opinions on everybody?

Korlash- He thought similarly like me at the end of D1. He was pretty lurksome at the beginning, IIRC, but he has gotten greatly better. I find him to be the towniest.

SC- Overreacted a little to Sajin's case, initially. I don't really like the bussing theory he had D1. It did look a little bit like he was flipping a bit and going with the wagon with the greatest chance of a lynch.

Sajin- Pressed half cases, and refused to comment more on them in fear of SC twisting it (more like fear of SC accurately defending himself/having no case). Then calls SC scummy for defending (answering questions asked upon SC mostly).

I think it is time to go to night if Sajin and SC are still alive tomorrow this can be discussed more then, otherwise this might as well just confuse everyone.

Vote: No Lynch

Sajin-

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: V/LA on Wednesday.

[Gorrad]

Vote Count:
No Lynch(3): StrangerCoug, Sajin, Battousai

Not Voting(1): Korlash

As the day ends, people begin to realise hey, are we not killing as they are to achieve our version of justice? Let's give it a break for a day. And so everyone goes to bed alive.

[Gorrad]

As day breaks, people are feeling pretty good. They didn't kill anyone yesterday, so maybe none of them was killed at night!

Alas that that isn't the case. The mangled body of Korlash is found on the streets, dead once more by magic. He's soon identified as Harley Hartwell, and the picture in his pocket is none other than Mitch Tennison, of the Junior Detective League. He was a great detective, but nothing more

Three people remain. Will one truth prevail? Only time will tell.

Korlash, Vanilla Townie, Harley Hartwell/Mitch Tennison, magic'd N5

Day! With three alive, it's two to lynch!

[StrangerCoug]

So the Mafia is wiped out. While I'm kind of suspicious of both of you, I have a more solid case on Sajin than on Battousai. I'll look at both of you in isolation.

[StrangerCoug]

These are my iso reads. I want to hear everybody before I vote, but it's there.

Battousai

1: The post that signaled the beginning of the end if not the end itself of the RVS.
4: Analysis of the game up to that point.
5: Accuses me of taking millar13 too seriously.
Late single digits to early 10's: The Firestarter case. Sensible.
15: I'm not happy with the second paragraph of this post. Yes, it's better for town to lynch claimed vanilla, but because they're expendable and are not going to be counterclaimed, not because it increases the chance of scum hitting a power role (despite that being true).
16: Start of the millar13 case.
18: Ditto my dislike of 15.
23: Goes back to Firestarter.
27: Questions Sajin's case on Firestarter.
29: Questions Sajin's case on me.
38: The socks comment made me laugh.
40: Ditto 29.
45: Inquires about the judge comment.
Late 40's to early 50's: The alexhans case.
52: Starts attacking Kairyuu. A way to summarize the case in one sentence is blowing my mind, but I think it's for intentionally acting scummy. Correct me if I'm wrong.
66: Questions Kairyuu's nameclaim for being similar to a name that fits the SK.
87: Understandable reasoning to question millar13's doc claim.
88: Encourages millar13 to self-hammer.
92: Praises Kairyuu's death.
93: The paranoia I speak of. Gives an IGMEOY on Korlash for being the only person other than him to post in the forums on Night 3.
96: FoS's me for rushing me.
Mid-100's: Questions my paranoia case on him.

Sajin

Most of the single digits, especially late: Good scumhunting for the most part.
13: Comment on the Firestarter claim, doesn't really add anything content-wise.
17: Looks like Sajin calling out Firestarter on a slip.
19: Pretty much gets it on the nose explaining my accusing Issac of ad hom.
22: I beg to differ about point 1 about WIFOM arguments and my referencing scum tactics being scummy, but I think Mafia theory would get me on the former, and the latter I think I understand where he's coming from.
25: This is where his town read gets shot. He simply follows along with Firestarter and votes me without providing his own reasoning, claiming that doing so is against forum rules.
26: He reacts to alexhans's dislike of his vote on me by dodging his question. This is the post before I get involved with his vote, by the way.
27: False OMGUS accusation.
28: Accuses me of misrepresenting Firestarter.
32: False slip call.
33: Misrepresentation of the supposed "slip" of mine.
37: Why, exactly, did alexhans need to defend me?
38: Fuzzy math.
41: What I think is the most important part of the Sajin case starts here—his refusal to post my case because he thinks I'll twist it, which hurts town because it's anti-information.
45: *barfs*
46: Dodges my case.
48: Stretches my statement regarding voting Firestarter over him.
52: Thanks for rolefishing (despite Kairyuu ending up vanilla).
53: Essentially dismisses his case on me. Not fond of the Kairyuu vote, looking back.
56: Admits to voting me with little to no case on me. Way to go, scum.
60's to early 70's: Cleans himself up some.
75: Understandable attack of millar13's claim.
76: Says I'm town.
85: FoS's me for FoS'ing Battousai, the only potential clear.
86: Incorrectly states that I switched my stance to favor lynching rather than not.
88: Misrepresents the possibilities of how what is now last night could go and votes me for saying my opinion wasn't the same all day.
89: Says I'm suspicious for not shooting Battousai.
90: Accuses me of being anti-probability.
92: Says that, according to my theory, he is unlikely to be the SK.
Mid-90's: Math.
98: Questions my claim as being most likely to be the SK given flavor.
101: Questions why I cared about his crap case. I think the answer is obvious here.
104: Posts my case as being overly defensive.

Again, I'm going to wait for everybody's opinions (PBPA's would be nice) before voting. I still prefer to lynch Sajin, but now that I've reread Battousai, some of his D1 thinking is anti-town and he did a couple things that are hypocritical (e.g. telling millar13 to self-hammer and then finding me suspicious for doing the same to Firestarter on Day 1).

[Battousai]

Vote SC

I lied yesterday. I am a watcher.. dum dum dum! I claimed I found Korlash townie yesterday in hopes of getting the SK to kill him. My result, obviously, was SC targetting Korlash. The reason I lied yesterday was to test Korlash. I felt that if he might suspect there was another investigative role, so by me claiming vanilla, I was hoping to catch him in a fake claim. It didn't work, since he claimed vanilla townie. Now earlier, I said I might know who a scum is, depending on an answer by the mod. That night, I recieved madeofphail targetted inquisitor. My action was actually to watch madeofphail, so Gorrad I told Gorrad he made a mistake and asked who targetted made (as you know made was killed that night, so the result would tell me who killed him). My answer was Inquisitor targetted Made, and Inquisitor was killed that night so it was no help. I know Sajin asked me about that earlier.

My list of results/actions:
N1- I watched SC, no one targetted him. I felt that SC pinged some people's scum dar and a cop would want to see his role. On N1 it is easier to pick the most likely to get investigated over most likely killed, IMO. I was wrong of course.

N2- I watched madeofphail, inquisitor (replaced by Lin) targetted him. I felt since he claimed a vig, the scum would target him. I was right, but madeofphail killed him that night.

N3- I watched Korlash, no one targetted him. Since he and myself are the only players that didn't claim the day before, I thought the scum would kill one of us to hopefully kill a powerrole. No dice.

N4- I watched Korlash, SC targetted Korlash. I called Korlash townie and helped set him up as being the most townie. My only problem would be if the scum would target me over him, but thankfully that didn't happen.

And just so you remember, I'm Joseph Meguire, watcher. My name claim is a veteren police officer.

Now I suspect SC will pull out the lieing scum as his defense. So, this will boil down to Sajin. Sajin, remember there was no SK kill N1 and I was protected N1. I was either protected or I, as scum, choose not to kill that night. I was hesitant to role claim, and instead prefered a name claim. That was because I didn't want to out powerroles, ala me. And remember, lieing does not make me definately scum. I had a perfectly valid reason for not coming forward and as a result, I found scum.

[Battousai]

You told Firestarter to hammer. From what I saw, I didn't see Firestarter threatening to self-hammer right before that. The reason I told millar to self-hammer was because he threatened to. If you threaten to do something, I expect you to do it. It's like when someone is so certain someone is scum and no one believes them, they say something along the lines of lynch me now, then when I come up townie, lynch them. It is usually a bluff by scum.

[StrangerCoug]

You told Firestarter to hammer. From what I saw, I didn't see Firestarter threatening to self-hammer right before that. The reason I told millar to self-hammer was because he threatened to. If you threaten to do something, I expect you to do it. It's like when someone is so certain someone is scum and no one believes them, they say something along the lines of lynch me now, then when I come up townie, lynch them. It is usually a bluff by scum.

OK, that's understood.

[Sajin]

Alright well I saw the thread. Thinking.

[Sajin]

Assuming 1 scum. That clears me I assume. I love how SC keeps his options open all game. Hmmm.

Any response SC?

[StrangerCoug]

As for Battousai saying I'm about to pull the defense that he's lying, I think it's more pro-town to keep to my word and wait to hear everybody before acting. As for the claim, he's now more likely scum than you are. No sane person in LYLO is going to respond to a claim incriminating them by voting the third party.

[Sajin]

vote: SC

vote count request

[StrangerCoug]

Damn! Good game, town.

[Battousai]

Game over, Town should win now.

[Battousai]

Gotta wait for Gorrad to confirm though.

[Sajin]

Woot!

Incidentally what happened with that night 1 kill?

And was that your real character?

[StrangerCoug]

Yes, actually. I wasn't given a safeclaim, so I had to look her up and see what pro-town flavor I could come up with.

[Sajin]

Also, I was tunneling you since day 1. Why would you leave me up?

[StrangerCoug]

What do you mean?