MKM II GAME OVER

[killa seven]

Please, Empking is town. I'm not sure I have the energy to re-read to attempt to prove this or if it would even be a profitable exercise to attempt so but he is a very bad lynch. I wouldn't even care if we wagoned more of the lurkers to a claim, they're not going to do anything anyway and I wouldn't be surprised if they had a useful power role if they weren't submitting night actions or were misusing them anyway. zEEnon or killa seven are acceptable, odds are at least one of the "lurky" players are scum and I don't think it's Empking.

If you are so sure someone is town, why wouldnt you go through a re read and provide examples to clear him? is everyone suppose to just say "well hell ortolan sais he is town so he must be" let me ask you, how do you know he is town and why are you desperatly trying to devert attention away from him?
Im not trying to accuse empking but if you have some information that will clear him then that would help the town.
(and just because "you played with him before" and seen him as a townie doesnt mean you automatically know someone role every game)

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-Empking (3): Gorrad, Kast, sirdanilot
-Kast (1): Empking
-AceMarksman (1): Riceballtail
-killa seven (1): ortolan

Not voting (4): killa seven, ZEEnon, caf19, AceMarksman

With 10 alive it takes 6 real votes to lynch.

[killa seven]

Sorry I have exams.
What do you guys think about a mass claim at this point in time?

I think it is still to early to mass claim, mass claims are best when you have around 3-6 people left and no information about anyone.

[killa seven]

Sorry I have exams.
What do you guys think about a mass claim at this point in time?

I think it is still to early to mass claim, mass claims are best when you have around 3-6 people left and no information about anyone.

[Empking]

My last post before the weekend:

Why would lynching K7 or ZEEnon be any better than lynching Empking?

Because I'm obvtown. That wouldn't be difficult for townies to understand.

Kast: How have I posted less than Zee?

[killa seven]

*crickets*

[ortolan]

Where has AceMarksman been btw, I don't recall ever thinking he was obv-town?

[Empking]

Mod: Prod Ace?

[sirdanilot]

this weeks will be busy for me

[caf19]

Echoing the opinion that a massclaim is not needed right now.

@ k7: What do you think of Empking?

[ortolan]

fyi, I really hate policy lynches, which is essentially what this amounts to.

I especially dislike Kast's explanation that Empking has been "actively anti-town" whereas killa seven has only been "passively anti-town", by this logic it is desirable for scum to lurk (it is bad logic). Also I wouldn't trust Kast as far as I can throw him after Notre Dame I will ask those voting Empking to tell me how many games they've played previously with Empking and to detail them. I have played many games with Empking and think I am fairly effective at reading him. I was rather skeptical of him in Lynch All Lurkers which finished recently and what do you know he turned out to be scum. I do not think he is scum in this game.

[ortolan]

Also note: I have actually been Empking's scumbuddy twice.

[sirdanilot]

The problem here is that nobody seems to be actively scumhunting, which is why we are policy lynching. I really don't have the time for this game right now... Sorry. I'll try to come up with more some time.

[ortolan]

It's not a policy lynch though, it's a mislynch.

I could actually vote you (despite your earlier support of me), or killa seven (or possibly someone else if I ever get around to a re-read). I see no reason to get a claim out of him at this stage in the game, he's always very anti-town in my experience.

[Empking]

Also note: I have actually been Empking's scumbuddy twice.

What was the second game?

[ortolan]

Carbon-14 and Lovers Mafia

[Lawrencelot]

Deadline: June 22 (1 week from now).

AceMarksman has been prodded.

[sirdanilot]

It's not a policy lynch though, it's a mislynch.

I could actually vote you (despite your earlier support of me), or killa seven (or possibly someone else if I ever get around to a re-read). I see no reason to get a claim out of him at this stage in the game, he's always very anti-town in my experience.

why vote me? now make a case against me!

or were you talking about someone else?

[ortolan]

it's more based on process of elimination/gut

however I would prefer killa seven first (and may favour others over you if I ever got around to a re-read)

[Kast]

@Mass Claim-
I think tomorrow is better for a claim.

@Empking-
You may have a higher post count than ZEEnon, but ZEEnon has had much more content than you (still not a lot).

@Ort-
-I prefer to have people who aren't posting anything be replaced rather than waste lynches to punish behavior that isn't indicative of alignment.

If someone is actively lurking (ie Empking), and/or just posting nonsense and avoiding actual discussion (also Empking), that's a much better lynch than a complete lurker like K7.

-That said, I dislike that K7 keeps lurking until prodded, then dropping a line so he isn't replaced, then resuming lurking.

@K7-
Please stay active. Are you caught up on reading the game?

If you aren't interested in playing the game, please let the mod know so you can be replaced instead of wasting everyone's time.

@AceM-
He isn't obvtown, but he's pretty obv-not-MK. There was absolutely no reason for him to counterclaim SK's position about item usage on D1.

[ortolan]

-I prefer to have people who aren't posting anything be replaced rather than waste lynches to punish behavior that isn't indicative of alignment.

-That said, I dislike that K7 keeps lurking until prodded, then dropping a line so he isn't replaced, then resuming lurking.

The second makes the first unattainable. What is your position on k7 if it is a given he will remain in the game?

[Kast]

-I'd like him to answer my question and if he avoids doing so, I'd like him to be replaced.

If he makes it clear that he is ONLY going to post when prodded (ie going to ignore other players), and we don't have any genuinely suspicious targets, then he could be a possible lynch.

Or we could repeatedly request prods, which if he ignores, then he gets replaced.

-Atm, I think Empking's behavior has been more anti-town, and also clearly indicative that he will not be replaced by someone interested in playing the game and finding scum.

To clarify a bit more the difference I see between Empking as scum and Empking as town, it looks like as scum, he only focuses on himself and only responds to either say he is town, or twist his accuser's argument and present a strawman. This is a classic scum mentality as scum only really need to care about not getting lynched themselves and don't have to worry about others except when it directly relates to themselves and possibility of their own lynch.

A townie perspective needs to look at other players and the town as a whole to determine which players are potentially scum.

[ortolan]

To clarify a bit more the difference I see between Empking as scum and Empking as town, it looks like as scum, he only focuses on himself and only responds to either say he is town, or twist his accuser's argument and present a strawman. This is a classic scum mentality as scum only really need to care about not getting lynched themselves and don't have to worry about others except when it directly relates to themselves and possibility of their own lynch.

Which games is this meta based on? Where have you seen him focus on himself as scum and when have you seen him do otherwise as town?

A townie perspective needs to look at other players and the town as a whole to determine which players are potentially scum.

This describes

ideal

play.

[Empking]

-I'd like him to answer my question and if he avoids doing so, I'd like him to be replaced.

If he makes it clear that he is ONLY going to post when prodded (ie going to ignore other players), and we don't have any genuinely suspicious targets, then he could be a possible lynch.

Or we could repeatedly request prods, which if he ignores, then he gets replaced.

-Atm, I think Empking's behavior has been more anti-town, and also clearly indicative that he will not be replaced by someone interested in playing the game and finding scum.

To clarify a bit more the difference I see between Empking as scum and Empking as town, it looks like as scum, he only focuses on himself and only responds to either say he is town, or twist his accuser's argument and present a strawman. This is a classic scum mentality as scum only really need to care about not getting lynched themselves and don't have to worry about others except when it directly relates to themselves and possibility of their own lynch.

A townie perspective needs to look at other players and the town as a whole to determine which players are potentially scum.

Says Mr. OMGUS.

[Kast]

@Ort-
-You can look at the game I linked. I've linked it at least twice and possibly more times already.

Within that game, I linked to several games where Empking was town that I read at the time.

It was this very same change in his behavior that I used to correctly identify him as scum in that game.

@Empking-
Yes, I do think you suck. That is neither my only, nor my primary reason for voting you. Also congratulations on once again failing to address the point.

Ironic that you comment about ZEEnon, but completely failed to address his question about mass claiming. Another example of you not caring about anything except whether it directly relates to your chances of being lynched.

[AceMarksman]

hey, I was away for the weekend. I'm reading now