Newbie 807 - Game Over

[ChannelDelibird]

EBWOP: This point might be stronger if I was voting for Kard right now, but I'm not. My motivation for discussing this in the first place was a) to defend myself against a FoS and b) to defend my integrity as a player my making it clear I wouldn't intentionally play any less than my best game in past games in order to gain an advantage now...

rather than trying to put suspicion on Kard.

[Xtoxm]

Vote Count

ChannelDelibird (3) CancerBottle, Kichirou, bgg1996

CancerBottle (1) ChannelDelibird
Kichirou (1) Kard8p3
Kard8p3 (1) dothefandango
crazypianist1116 (1) FoShizzle

Not voting (2) crazypianist1116, FatedLunar

With 9 alive, 5 to lynch.

Please vote using the correct format; if I can't make out whether you're trying to vote or not, it won't count.

[CancerBottle]

*snip*

This point might be stronger if I was voting for Kard right now, but I'm not. My motivation for discussing this in the first place was a) to defend myself against a FoS and b) to defend my integrity as a player my making it clear I wouldn't intentionally play any less than my best game in past games in order to gain an advantage now.

True, you're not voting for him now, but--from my perspective--you've planted a seed that you could build on later. I understand your motivations and I'm not suspicious of you because you're trying to defend yourself. I'm suspicious of you because of the argument you used to do so.

You say you don't think Kard's reasoning is unreasonable,

why

? I just made a post about why I felt, whether or not I misinterpreted his post, the FoS was unfair. Is my logic flawed?

The argument he made is that you might use past games in which you've played, good performance or not, to justify scummy actions. I've seen experienced players on this forum cite past games to justify scummy behavior, as I've done it myself. I don't think you or anyone else here have any qualms about making that move.

Then you implied, he meant you were intentionally throwing games in order to bamboozle the newbies of Newbie 807....

[CancerBottle]

EBWOP: This point might be stronger if I was voting for Kard right now, but I'm not. My motivation for discussing this in the first place was a) to defend myself against a FoS and b) to defend my integrity as a player my making it clear I wouldn't intentionally play any less than my best game in past games in order to gain an advantage now...

rather than trying to put suspicion on Kard.

I just think it was a reach to suggest that. I don't think anyone here would actually accuse you of intentionally playing poorly in one game to gain a tenuous advantage in another.

Then again, because it's so absurd, that might be why my thinking is faulty.

But, I would like to hear what other players have to say on the issue.

[FatedLunar]

I do think it's too much of a reach to suggest that ChannelDelibird is throwing games just so he can cite them later as instances when he did that behavior. That in and of itself just sounds absurd to me, but I'm also not too experienced with these games, so yeah. With ChannelDelibird in particular, I haven't seen anything in his behavior yet that strikes me as scummish yet, but that's just me.

To be honest, that whole argument yesterday was actually making me suspicious that Kard might be scum, and just looking for excuses to pick someone out for scummish behavior. But the thing is, I can also see a townie doing that, even if the extent he went was a bit too much than he should of gone, so I'm reserving judgement on scums right now(my scum radar tends to suck anyway, from what little games I've played on other sites).

[Kard8p3]

This is a bit of a reach, don't you think? I mean, I don't see Kard suggesting that you have deliberately played scummy as town in a previous game, only to be able to cite that playstyle in other games.

You don't see him doing that? A couple of posts before the above quote, he responded to me asking him if he was suggesting that, and he said:

Really? You put the meta tactic out there first. Which, for reasons already stated in this thread, is dubious. Yet, you frame Kard's suspicions with this dubious tactic, thus weakening his suspicions.

I mentioned the meta "tactic" of playing suboptimally in the past to gain an advantage in the future because I thought that was what he was implying in his post. Let's take another look at that post:

Nah, you don't have to link me, as you could be a scum, therefore, if someone pointed out what you said, you could simply link them to old games to throw them off your trail.

Maybe I've misinterpreted here. I thought this was suggesting that I might have

planned

my behaviour as town in the past so that I could engineer some future advantage as scum (mainly the phrase "throw them off your trail" was what put that in my mind). But I guess it could just mean that in this game particularly I might be scum and I am deliberately throwing in things I do as town to make me look town. Is that what you meant by this post, Kard?

If that

is

the correct interpretation, firstly, my apologies, and secondly, I'm not really sure what the point is you're trying to make. Surely the whole point of being scum is trying to do things that make you look town, but those things make you look town because they're normally done by town. So it's unfair to suggest that I might be scum because I'm doing something I normally do as town, because it suggests I'm town as much (if not more) than it suggests I'm scum. Scumhunting is about looking for things that are more likely to come from scum than they are from town, and I don't think you can make that argument here.

Hope that's clear.

Indeed, that was the correct interpretation, and no need to apologize. You are once again correct, I can't make that argument.

So, what do ya say, lets put this behind us?

On a side note, I missed a bit from waking up so late >_>.

[CancerBottle]

Well, before we do, I'd like to ask Kichirou, why he put CBD at L-2?

Basically, Kich, could you explain your vote?

[Kard8p3]

Well, before we do, I'd like to ask Kichirou, why he put CBD at L-2?

Basically, Kich, could you explain your vote?

I too wonder this!

Also, I will be from tomorrow from 2 PM to around 11 PM.

[Kard8p3]

Well, before we do, I'd like to ask Kichirou, why he put CBD at L-2?

Basically, Kich, could you explain your vote?

I too wonder this!

Also, I will be from tomorrow from 2 PM to around 11 PM.

EBWOP: "Also, I will be gone tomorrow from 2 PM to around 11 PM."

[ChannelDelibird]

No need to worry about warning us of absences that short, Kard. Nobody expects 24-hour access. Generally, we only need to know if your absence is measured in days.

crazypianist, FatedLunar, dothefandango and FoShizzle:

what do you think of the fact that I currently have three votes?

[dothefandango]

TBH, I think it's either fishy or just a coincidence. I watching closely, but I would never put much into these first round discussions. Everyone's jumpy to point the finger, so I just go with my gut.

[Kichirou]

Well, before we do, I'd like to ask Kichirou, why he put CBD at L-2?

Basically, Kich, could you explain your vote?

It was random lol

[CancerBottle]

TBH, I think it's either fishy or just a coincidence. I watching closely, but I would never put much into these first round discussions. Everyone's jumpy to point the finger, so I just go with my gut.

Good point.

What is your gut telling you, if you don't mind sharing?

[CancerBottle]

Well, before we do, I'd like to ask Kichirou, why he put CBD at L-2?

Basically, Kich, could you explain your vote?

It was random lol

Ah.

...

Then what about you, bgg1996? Why did you vote for CBD?

[dothefandango]

What is your gut telling you, if you don't mind sharing?

I don't have any reason behind it, but the one that is the most talkative at first usually is antsy, so I just decided to go with what I thought at the time.

[ChannelDelibird]

What is your gut telling you, if you don't mind sharing?

I don't have any reason behind it, but the one that is the most talkative at first usually is antsy, so I just decided to go with what I thought at the time.

As an IC, it's my job to talk as much as possible, particularly at the start of the game, in order to help you guys into the rhythm of the game. I think that supersedes the 'antsy' idea.

[crazypianist1116]

crazypianist, FatedLunar, dothefandango and FoShizzle:

what do you think of the fact that I currently have three votes?

So sorry, I was out for 2 days. I'll be back to read the posts throughly later tonight.

[bgg1996]

Well, before we do, I'd like to ask Kichirou, why he put CBD at L-2?

Basically, Kich, could you explain your vote?

It was random lol

Ah.

...

Then what about you, bgg1996? Why did you vote for CBD?

His vote seemed suspicious.
Besides, it's the first round.

[ChannelDelibird]

Then what about you, bgg1996? Why did you vote for CBD?

His vote seemed suspicious.
Besides, it's the first round.

Suspicious in what way?

[dothefandango]

As an IC, it's my job to talk as much as possible, particularly at the start of the game, in order to help you guys into the rhythm of the game. I think that supersedes the 'antsy' idea.

If you realize, I didn't vote for you

[CancerBottle]

What is your gut telling you, if you don't mind sharing?

I don't have any reason behind it, but the one that is the most talkative at first usually is antsy, so I just decided to go with what I thought at the time.

Au contraire! I've found that it's the most quiet players who are the antsy. Quiet players are trying to avoid revealing something condemning through their posts.

But you see how shaky rubrics like this are? Any kind of "rule" you have for yourself like, "quiet players are mafia," "talkative players are mafia," can be contradicted.

...

@ Bgg1996: what about CBD was suspicious?

@ Crazypianist: I can't wait to read your thoughts.

[dothefandango]

But you see how shaky rubrics like this are? Any kind of "rule" you have for yourself like, "quiet players are mafia," "talkative players are mafia," can be contradicted.

I see how easily they can be made, but for me this is a rule I have felt out a few times elsewhere. Like I said, gotta go with your gut.

[crazypianist1116]

FoShizzle: That's not much of a random vote since you have a reason. I prefer to observe first and then give my observations.

Kard8p3: Why didn't you defend ChannelDelibird in 55 after you wanted to "put everything behind [you]"?

CancerBottle: If you're so concerned about ChannelDelibird being at L-2, then revoke your vote. The other 2 will surely fall as they had no reasons. You should give a reason for keeping your vote. Originally it was (pretty much) random. Additionally, I don't feel like CDB's posts have put any suspicion on Kard. CDB isn't attacking Kard, he's defending himself against Kard's FoS. Since someone accused me for not voting originally, I'll cast a vote now.

Vote: CancerBottle

[Kard8p3]

Kard8p3: Why didn't you defend ChannelDelibird in 55 after you wanted to "put everything behind [you]"?

What was there to defend?

[crazypianist1116]

He was at L-2.