Mini 808 - Rabbit Doubt Mafia: Over!

[Battousai]

But we can still pretend! Unless she was never there and is actually a hologram.

[Iecerint]

Tenchi, don't let me scare you into lurking.

[Tenchi]

Mod: Personal life stuff. I swear I will be back in a few days.

[Looker]

Battousai's Post 347 - Noted.

Let's create codenames for everyone so that MafiaMann can help us with stuff.

I want mine to be

"the guy with glasses"[/b].

Battousai, why did you move to Room number 7? Do you need an Evil Bunny mask to do your stuff?

Why did you post this question only to vote me after I answered? That implied that you had an acceptable answer in which I could have responded. What could I have said that would make you not want to vote me?

Good question. But I believe I can use a rhetorical question in my arguments just like you did in one of your posts.

The truth of the matter is I suspect you already just because you went straight into that room.

Vote: Tenchi

You could have voted me in the first post instead of asking a rhetorical question. This implies to me that you were trying to get me to say something in which you could infer that I have a powerrole.

and

But by pointing, you also voted. To me at least, pointing something else is not the same as voting.

And the only defense I have here is I should have voted for you at the same post as I have posted those suspicions?

But you didn't...

Tenchi- Ztife suggests that everyone should go to the weapons storage... why haven't you expressed suspicion on that and instead focus on the keys?

I am paranoid as I have said. Especially with the key revelation. I do agree however with the staying together in groups of threes.

And yes, please do not deflect my attention on you to Ztlife. At least his entrance/proposal of going into the Storage Room had some form of logic into it (rather than say, a lame excuse like skipping rope).

I'm not deflecting, merely pointing out. If I felt anything wrong with it I would have said something.

The only difference between what I did and what everyone who goes into the storage room will be be the reason. What the hell? The action is supposedly scummy, not the reason. You voted me because I went into the room. You said that was what was scummy since you stated you should have voted me in the sentence you asked me why. Therefore you must agree the reason is not scummy but the action. Now everyone is going in there with a reason of ztife said it was a good idea... they aren't suspicious, just the first person who went in there. Flawed logic much? Narrowing in much? Ya, definately keeping my vote on you now.

(Selective attention? Maybe. Right now, the Battousai case is the best one I can think of, and makes sense for me.)

Maybe that is because I am voting for you at the moment and I was your first suspect. Maybe it would be helpful if we, as town, stopped focusing on the game setup/flavor and whatnot, and focused more on scumhunting.

Let me rephrase it. According to the game, I did not pick up anything, was not given anything, I have not gotten an item. I said technically, because I didn't get anything even though I said I took the rope to jump rope (much like the way you molested super hot chick Codename: ZazieR.

Scum/Roleholder/Vanilla again would say the same thing.

Just because every role would say the same thing, doesn't make it untrue.

VS

Ok. I thought KMD was in Room number 7 and you just went into Room number 7.

My bad.

Vote: Battousai

Currently leaning toward a Tenchi vote in the matter of Tenchi V Battousai. Tenchi do you have anything else to justify your vote or is there anyone else you find scummy that you'd like to go against?

@Ztife - What do you think? Which case is more sound or better in your opinion?

[ZazieR]

Ztife moves to Corridor
Ztife moves to room 6
Ztife moves to room 12

Room 12 is closed by Looker.

[ZazieR]

Mod: Personal life stuff. I swear I will be back in a few days.

Noted

[PaperPenguin]

Most of the posts are so muddled up in flavor discussion that I'm having a hard time trying to get a read on anyone - just too much clutter. As a favor to us all, could

The only difference between what I did and what everyone who goes into the storage room will be be the reason. What the hell? The action is supposedly scummy, not the reason. You voted me because I went into the room. You said that was what was scummy since you stated you should have voted me in the sentence you asked me why. Therefore you must agree the reason is not scummy but the action. Now everyone is going in there with a reason of ztife said it was a good idea... they aren't suspicious, just the first person who went in there. Flawed logic much? Narrowing in much? Ya, definately keeping my vote on you now.

Intent makes all the difference.

Honestly I just wanted the rope to jump with, lol. The other rooms had nothing in it, smelled awful, or was completely dark. The room I went into was more interesting. Besides, wouldn't I already have an evil bunny mask if I was the wolf? Otherwise you would already know I was a wolf. Maybe I'm a vig and wanted a weapon for my powerrole. If your theory is true about the scum having to find that room then it is possible that I am a vig. Not saying I am and not saying I'm not.

You've practically said nothing at all. You've replied to a serious question by dancing around flavor. As irresponsible as this is, it is not indicative of scummyness, at least by my radar.

-=I hope myco get's back soon, maybe then I could have something more concrete =-

[Iecerint]

You've practically said nothing at all. You've replied to a serious question by dancing around flavor. As irresponsible as this is, it is not indicative of scummyness, at least by my radar.

Well, he also brought up the vig business, even if he says he meant it hypothetically.

[Battousai]

Man, how is me just wanting to mess around not an answer??? I'm not going around the question.... that is my answer.

Also, Tenchi said he would should have voted me as soon as I went in... thereby not knowing my intent. So he found the action scummy and not any reason. He changes that up later when someone else wants to go in there with a different intent. He's not being consistant. Also, "intent makes all the difference," doesn't apply. People lie in mafia *shock*. They can just make up an intent and with the suggestion that everyone should go into the storage room, they now have one and they don't have to lie. Yet, Tenchi did not care that everyone is going into the storage room, yet he still is suspicious of me for going in there. I bet if everyone jumped off a bridge, Tenchi would rule them all as accidental, but mine would be suicide .

[Iecerint]

Looker, I'm not saying that I disagree with your conclusions ("Tenchi is more suspect than Batt"), but your list there seems more than a little one-sided to me. It was my understanding that that was intentional on your part and that your questions about "which case is more plausible" have been rhetorical. Am I correct, or is your post an honest attempt to summarize the dispute? Are you just waiting for Tenchi to specify what he'd like to add to his column?

[mykonian]

on page 4, tenchi comes with a crap case on battousai, and it is a subjective attack, mostly. It is about battousai not having a key.

a series of quotes, from one post.

It would be awesome if you are a vig, but I doubt that.

LOL. How would we know? Or are you duping a bucket of WIFOM on my lap?

How would I know? Or do you and your buddies don't know each other? Scumslip?

Maybe. Shudda Wouldda Couldda...

I am not buying it.

WIFOM madness.

these are all his reactions on battousai's defence. He actually makes no points, he only subjectively makes battousai scummy.

unvote vote Tenchi

after that, wolf enters, and KMD and Phily react on tenchi.

but paperpenguin doesn't even mention it...

FoS Paperpenguin

then Kreviov comes with a logical, but insane vote on PhilyEc: for agreeing with KMD, but picking another room:

FoS Kreviov

Two different motivations. I've explained why I picked 7, its a lucky number. Battousai's explaination is that he wanted to skip rope...

WHO R U KIDDING? LOL!

VOTE: PhilyEc

(Both are crappy reasons and both are just mere EXCUSES just so you can stuff your noses in that room.)

jumps on the Phily wagon... yeah, i know he later unvoted. and went back to battousai...

tenchi found a new hammer to hit battousai... this guy tunnels way too much.

I have on page 7 the feeling that paperpenguin active lurks.

page 8, battousai attacks tenchi, tenchi won't defend against the "rhetorical question" business

And my point is made. You asked me a question, I responded, you voted me. When asked what kind of answer would have led you to not vote me, you reply that your question was rhetorical (and it clearly wasn't). Therefore, you tried to get me to say something, something that may lead you to believe I might be a powerrole or scum, and since you are denying it, it is more likely they former.

mostly this point.

And why are Myko and Tenchi both still alive?

myko has only pregame posted a joke towards looker about previous games. You come with your perfectly logical argument that I must have made a slip. Didn't think so:

FoS KMD

I read now I thought Tenchi town last time poor tenchi

end page 12 kmd is way too concerned he is logical in his vote on me.

HoS KMD

Quick question, why are we grouping together in the first place?

I think it was based on speculation from Ztife that we might receive notices that a roommate left the room during the night.

I dont think the game is that easily breakable

myko, could you elaborate about your vote on Penguin?

no, it would be a lurker vote by now.

Btw since im in the crime scene room, am I allowed to strip the corpse Super Hot Chick, Codename: ZazieR, to look for a barcode?

As already stated, Super Hot Chick, codename ZazieR, is not a usable object!

ok, ztife is our best clown

unvote vote KMD

mostly gut, but this play just points at him being scum. It is not a big difference, but as town he would never semi lurk this way, tunneling till over page 10 on a pregame post.

[Iecerint]

I think Battwagon was based on his decision to run into the Storage Room rather than his not having a key per se. I'd also point out that the Tenchi lines you've quoted are "rebutting" pretty weak comments from Batt (e.g. "Maybe I'm a vig"/"I love jumping rope"/etc.). Apart from that, I pretty much agree with you on about Tenchi, but I wish he'd post about this.

I disagree with your assessment of Kre's attempted Philywagon. Phily's action needed to be explained, and he was ultimately only able to explain it as an error. Kre bought this quickly, though Phily got a little defensive, and so the ordeal became drawn out. I do agree with your (implicit) suggestion that, now that the details are out there, Phily's action wasn't scummy.

I don't think notices about leaving rooms necessarily breaks the system. If the theory is correct, it would probably also allow scum to learn likely power roles. I guess lucky room-choosing (say, all scum and PRs in one room) could still screw this up, though. Do you have an alternate theory about the function of sleeping locations? If so, do you have an alternate sleeping location strategy to accompany it? Or do you think that they're a red herring?

[Kmd4390]

And why are Myko and Tenchi both still alive?

myko has only pregame posted a joke towards looker about previous games. You come with your perfectly logical argument that I must have made a slip. Didn't think so:

FoS KMD

Am I still voting you? Didn't think so.

end page 12 kmd is way too concerned he is logical in his vote on me.

HoS KMD

Well if you were more active, I'd have been able to get a reaction from you. So far, you've FoS'd and HoS'd me strictly for voting you, correct?

unvote vote KMD

mostly gut, but this play just points at him being scum. It is not a big difference, but as town he would never semi lurk this way, tunneling till over page 10 on a pregame post.

Why is this argument always used against me in games where I am town? See Zelda. See Double Head Alpha. See Disney. See LK's open game. Always.

[PhilyEc]

unvote vote KMD mostly gut, but this play just points at him being scum. It is not a big difference, but as town he would never semi lurk this way, tunneling till over page 10 on a pregame post.

^OMGUS

You had far more stuff to vote for Tenchi then went to voting for KMD mainly on gut feeling. I'd say its more likely its because he suspected you so early on.

Fos

[MafiaMann]

I hate people who go off of gut reads

[Kmd4390]

I usually go off gut reads. Actually, almost always.

[Battousai]

Gut is a good read, just not likely to get other's to vote with you.

Also, this is probably my last post until Tuesday. Going to the eye doctor tomorrow and I won't be wanting to stare at a computer screen after what is in store.

[mykonian]

And why are Myko and Tenchi both still alive?

myko has only pregame posted a joke towards looker about previous games. You come with your perfectly logical argument that I must have made a slip. Didn't think so:

FoS KMD

Am I still voting you? Didn't think so.

great argument.

end page 12 kmd is way too concerned he is logical in his vote on me.

HoS KMD

Well if you were more active, I'd have been able to get a reaction from you. So far, you've FoS'd and HoS'd me strictly for voting you, correct?

for doing nothing but that until page 12.

unvote vote KMD

mostly gut, but this play just points at him being scum. It is not a big difference, but as town he would never semi lurk this way, tunneling till over page 10 on a pregame post.

Why is this argument always used against me in games where I am town? See Zelda. See Double Head Alpha. See Disney. See LK's open game. Always.

you lurk. and you tunnel. If you are town, or mafia, you would try to look town. Here, most what you do, is accusing a lurker, not reacting on play:

and stay unnoticed

[mykonian]

I hate people who go off of gut reads

and that is why I explained where it came from, so you can check it. But you seem to have missed that.

[Kmd4390]

Myko, first, look at my posts and tell me I did nothing else. Second, look at everyone else's post and tell me I'm "unnoticed" (which I'd hate to be as scum anyway as I like to have control. See Spy's recent game.)

[mykonian]

Myko, first, look at my posts and tell me I did nothing else. Second, look at everyone else's post and tell me I'm "unnoticed" (which I'd hate to be as scum anyway as I like to have control. See Spy's recent game.)

that is one reason I think you are a survivor with a nightkill and yes, you are trying to. You are not that much in control as I have seen you before.

[mykonian]

unvote vote KMD mostly gut, but this play just points at him being scum. It is not a big difference, but as town he would never semi lurk this way, tunneling till over page 10 on a pregame post.

^OMGUS

You had far more stuff to vote for Tenchi then went to voting for KMD mainly on gut feeling. I'd say its more likely its because he suspected you so early on.

Fos

you are actually right. I say KMD's vote sucks, and that he is scum for it. but I think I explained, reasoned why it sucked, and that a tell like OMGUS (an unreasoned countervote) should not be used here. It is not applied correctly.

[Kreriov]

As already stated, Super Hot Chick, codename ZazieR, is not a usable object!

Even the mod cannot control my dreams, however.

[Iecerint]

I say KMD's vote sucks, and that he is scum for it.

To clarify, you're saying that his vote on you sucked (i.e. not his current vote on Tenchi)?

[Kreriov]

You've practically said nothing at all. You've replied to a serious question by dancing around flavor. As irresponsible as this is, it is not indicative of scummyness, at least by my radar.

Well, he also brought up the vig business, even if he says he meant it hypothetically.

I think he actually replied to Tenchi theorizing that the scum might need to enter room 7 to get weapons for their night kill to which Batt replied that a Vig might need to as well. Didn't really seem like a soft claim to me, despite Tenchi claiming it was, but instead a specific example used to rebut something Tenchi said. In fact, almost everything Batt has said or done that is listed as suspicious by Tenchi and others (other then entering the room in the first place) are answers to accusations/questions by Tenchi. For example, the jumping rope thing was a sarcastic/funny reply to Tenchi asking why Batt entered the room. Batt saying he had no key was specifically to answer Tenchi's question as to why Batt did not open a room himself. I am not really comfortable making this a Batt or Tenchi vote. I simply feel that while Batt entering the storage room and being a bit flippant in replies is a bit scummy, it has been taken advantage of by Tenchi to try and get a wagon going.

One thing I do know, at least this is real discussion and not all the bullshit arguing over how to group people in rooms over the night. All of you talking about that crap and not actually trying to find scum are a seriously actively lurking.