mini 814: OVER!

[Spinach]

Vote: Spinach

I hate spinach

>:( I find it delicious.

Vote: MonkeyMan576

I hate monkeys

[Spinach]

What is your opinions on the random voting stage?

- I feel it's just filler in a game. Talk to break down barriers, needless words until someone slips up and we all remove our votes and get serious. I feel someone issuing a list of questions like you have helps a lot, and I'm glad that I'm not the one to have to do it this time. :)

Why did you pick this game in particular?

- Well, this is my first game out of the Newbie Queue (Yay!) and I felt like I wanted a game where it wouldn't be too overwhelming with the changing of rules and number of people playing, so this game was perfect.

Who do you expect to be the first person to be lynched this game, and why?

- Well, it would be dumb to bet on it so early in the game, when we're still throwing 'I hate u!' votes. :P. Though if you're wanting me to guess at this point, I would honestly have to say me. ( :( ). People just seem to not appreciate the value of a healthy plate of yummy Spinach!

Who do you want to be lynched first this game, and why?

- As said above, it would be silly to have actual accusations at this point in time. Though I do hate monkeys, so if you

really

want me to state a person now, it would have to be him.

[Spinach]

The lie is you have two middle names! Totally! :P

[Spinach]

Okay. People need to use ONE account to post in games. Please. It makes the game confusing for everyone in it, especially when looking back for post reviews and such. I don't even see the point of having multiple accounts on here, it makes no sense.

I'd like to point out something:

3. I don't know, I'm hoping it won't be me, as I tend to be an early lynch when playing town.

Something about this quote.. she states she's town in a way that comes off as scummy to me. This is also her only post, which worries me.

Mod: Could we please get a prod on Claramata? Thanks.

[Spinach]

Getting a little inactive...

3. I don't know, I'm hoping it won't be me, as I tend to be an early lynch when playing town.

I can see what you mean by it sounding fishy. Though I don't think there is much to there that would indicate scum. I made a similar statement a while back. I was merely being honest. I tend to be more aggresive when playing Town and get lynched because of it.

Yes, I knew that it wasn't much of anything, but it was also something to spark her to talk and respond, and hopefully get some more conversation going on.

Claramata's neighbors could head next door and prod her, which at this point is the only thing we can do with our messages. :S (Well, all that I see)

[Spinach]

Locke Lamora and DOESnotWANT are very likely to survive this day, I believe, based on their pro-town way of playing.

No one's really standing out yet, in neither a good or a bad way...

Weird how you say LL and DNW are pro-town, then say nobody stands out yet.
If you mean something else, feel free to correct me.

And Hernz, wouldn't it be better to do something a little more constructive and not . . silly to spark conversation?

[Spinach]

Unvote; Vote: MonkeyMan

I didn't notice that he'd voted for Hernz when I did. I don't see how drawing attention to yourself is not pro-town in itself. Still got my eye on Hernz and Droideka now that Droideka has defended Hernz too, though.

Drawing attention to yourself is not pro town because it is not scum hunting.

So anything that isn't scumhunting is deemed anti-town behavior? I really don't see how that makes sense . . .

[Spinach]

The goal of this game is not to vote for yourself. It's to decipher and solve and find out who the scummiest people are.

Voting for yourself is anti-town. It's a stance I will always take because it is against the spirit of the game.

But voting himself stimulated discussion; stimulating discussion helps us find scum, so self-voting (in this situation) is pro-town.

Neither do I. Drawing attention to yourself could be used in a pro-town way and helpful in scumhunting later on.

Scumhunting is pro-town. Not scum-hunting is anti-town. It's pretty simple.

I'm suspicious of anyone who thinks self-voting is pro-town generally.

So by your rules, I should FoS everyone for random voting because it is not scumhunting, because doing anything other than scumhunting is anti-town, and FoS you because you wanted to play two truths and a lie, which is certainly not scumhunting.

And I'd like to re-emphasize something I said earlier:

Okay. People need to use ONE account to post in games. Please. It makes the game confusing for everyone in it, especially when looking back for post reviews and such. I don't even see the point of having multiple accounts on here, it makes no sense.

Also-also: I've 'prodded' DNW.

[Spinach]

Stop using other accounts... Firstly, I never said I don't like the RVS we just needed to get out of it, and secondly what does the RVS got to do with voting myself?

The other account was an accident. As for the RV, Absolutely nothing, which is why it is scummy. We didn't need to get out of the RVS so badly that you needed to act like scum.

You've made that 'accident' too many times now.

And I'd like to know how self-voting is scummy besides 'it isn't scumhunting'.
And by that point we were out of the RVS. The game was stalling and nothing was happening.
I'd say we exited the RVS when the first non-random vote came (post 35). Hernz self-voted on post 75, well after the RVS ended and while the game was stalling.

[Spinach]

Self-voting should never be used.

We just need to agree to disagree and move on.

Move on? You know that's never going to happen. Besides, you're suggesting we move on from an useful discussion. And if Hernz didn't self-vote what would have happened? We would still be stuck in useless discussion probably getting nowhere. You can't complain at Hernz for stimulating discussion when you yourself did nothing.

And monkey, THIS IS THE LAST STRAW. I'm only using caps because you can't seem to get it through your head that you need to use ONE account to post in this game. It's not that hard.

[Spinach]

Yeah, even though I agree with Starbuck on self-voting, it's true that she's not scumhunting. I'm still suspicious of Hertz though.

Unvote:
Vote: Starbuck

...


Hi scum, how are you doing?

[Spinach]

It's just crap. I was asked to give my suspicions. I've had a notepad document going because I prefer big analysis posts rather than the 5 billion posts people make when doing analysis. I was going to finish it up when I got home and post it. I was getting ready to and noticed I was hammered. No wait, no nothing. I really was looking forward to this game, thank you all for ruining it based on the fact that I hate self-voting rather than anything scummy.

I know. I've also had a fairly large post in the works in my notes section, but all that work is now in vain. It's very frustrating.

Mod: I know monkey is going to pull the 'I DIDN'T KNOW' thing tomorrow, and that is actually a fair argument, since there was no 'X number of votes to lynch' on the vote count. Could you add this from now on? Thanks.

[Spinach]

I don't get it...

You're kidding me. You know what you did. Stop playing dumb.

[Spinach]

It's just crap. I was asked to give my suspicions. I've had a notepad document going because I prefer big analysis posts rather than the 5 billion posts people make when doing analysis. I was going to finish it up when I got home and post it. I was getting ready to and noticed I was hammered. No wait, no nothing. I really was looking forward to this game, thank you all for ruining it based on the fact that I hate self-voting rather than anything scummy.

I know. I've also had a fairly large post in the works in my notes section, but

all that work is now in vain

. It's very frustrating.

How is it in vain? It's never too late to post your thoughts, or at least some of them, even if Starbuck was quickhammered. Well, unless you were about to defend her.

Most of it was focused on Monkey, but him hammering so quickly regards him as the least likely to be scum at this particular moment, rendering my post obsolete. And looking back, it seems possible (considering the nightkill) that Monkey is silenced today, though I'm not sure.

Monkey/Fluffy: Your thoughts?

[Spinach]

assuming that starbuck's partner wouldn't vote for starbuck in day 1, and assuming there has to be at least 2 scum, so there's possibly a scum who isn't on the wagon of starbuck, people not on the starbuck wagon include henrz, spinach, and tarballs.

henrz - random votes droid, then unvotes and then self votes, then unvotes himself,
spinach - random votes monkeyman, and that's it
tarballs - votes henrz, unvotes and then votes monkeyman

tarballs with starbuck - votes henrz after starbuck attacks henrz for self voting, then unvotes when people disagree with starbuck that self voting is necessarily scummy,

and monkey, i don't necessarily think he should get a free pass for quick hammering, since he could've hammered when he realised she was going to get lynched anyways..

but at this stage

vote:Tarballs

If you're asking me as to why I didn't vote Starbuck, it was basically because we policy lynched her for wanting to policy lynch someone. It didn't make sense to me.

Also, while we're on the topic of Tarballs, I realized something.
I realized that (from the nightkill) the mafia have another goal in this game: to hamper communication.
Then I looked at the nightkill. They were obviously trying to isolate someone, and they could do it in two ways:
a) Kill Droid and isolate Monkey. (the outcome)
b) Kill Tarballs and isolate Hernz.

So I have a question: Why was option a chosen over option b? Could Tarballs be scum, rendering option b impossible? I know it seems... far-fetched, but I'd just like to throw it out there while we're talking about him.

[Spinach]

spinach - i think that's an interesting theory, hadn't thought of it from that angle,

but isn't that assuming that communication is important to playing this game, it hasn't added anything new for me at the stage of the game, could be just me though.

Yeah, I had thought of it as useless until Starbuck died, then I realized we could have an all-silencer mafia.

Still waiting on you, monkey . . .

[Spinach]

What is it that you want from me?

Your thoughts on the game... as previously stated. >_>

[Spinach]

Also, while we're on the topic of Tarballs, I realized something.
I realized that (from the nightkill) the mafia have another goal in this game: to hamper communication.
Then I looked at the nightkill. They were obviously trying to isolate someone, and they could do it in two ways:
a) Kill Droid and isolate Monkey. (the outcome)
b) Kill Tarballs and isolate Hernz.

So I have a question: Why was option a chosen over option b? Could Tarballs be scum, rendering option b impossible?

I know it seems... far-fetched, but I'd just like to throw it out there while we're talking about him.

Trying to guess why the scum killed who they killed, when there is no obvious reason, is almost never a good idea. And if the mafia really wanted to isolate someone, they could've just flipped a coin between me and Droideka. Or something. Anyhow, the fact that I wasn't killed doesn't prove anything here.

Did you fail to read that last sentence? I've bolded it for your reading convenience. I said that I just wanted to throw it out there, and that I knew it was far-fetched, and that it probably meant next to nothing.

spinach - i think that's an interesting theory, hadn't thought of it from that angle,

but isn't that assuming that communication is important to playing this game, it hasn't added anything new for me at the stage of the game, could be just me though.

Yeah, I had thought of it as useless until Starbuck died, then I realized we could have an all-silencer mafia.

How do you even know what a Silencer does? How would it make this different if there were two Silencers instead of just one? And it also seems like you knew that a Silencer exists before Starbuck even flipped... which should be impossible, if you're town.

Vote: Spinach

I searched the wiki and used knowledge from previous games to infer what a silencer does in this game.
And what got me thinking that there were multiple silencers are the way the nightkill happened, in a way to isolate someone (monkey) as if he was going to be silenced. (Also why I wanted to hear from him)
And I hadn't even thought of silencers existing in this game before Starbuck flipped. I'd like to know where you got this idea that I knew on D1 from.

And what worries me more is that you voted and attacked me for posting a simple thought, while you have yet to address the two other people that have voted for you.

FoS: Tarballs

[Spinach]

Oops, sorry, In answer. Kinda yes... But, I was meaning like after his defence, not before, and even then maybe not, but yeah, I kinda was. Bus NOT a speedlynch.

That's a horribly wishy-washy answer. :D

Did you fail to read that last sentence? I've bolded it for your reading convenience. I said that I just wanted to throw it out there, and that I knew it was far-fetched, and that it probably meant next to nothing.

I did read the last sentence. It's just that you admitted yourself that it was far-fetched, and that it "probably means next to nothing", yet you still felt the need of pointing it out.


And is it just me, or is this game starting to slow down again?

Mod: I'm requesting that you prod ODDin, who hasn't posted for almost a week now.

Yes, but as you've said, the game is going horribly slow... posting it generated discussion, which we desperately need.

You still haven't responded to Fluffy and LL.

[Spinach]

I've only played with a silencer once before and it wasn't here, but in that case it was a mafia role that had the power to completely prevent someone talking in the game for an entire game day. In this game it could also be to silence people from day-talking with their neighbours. As everyone has spoken today it doesn't look like anyone's been silenced.

Spinach: I'm interested in why you think the mafia's goal is to hamper communication. Sure, it's possible that they were aiming to do that with the Droid kill but it's also possible they killed Droid for a completely different reason and didn't even think about isolating someone in the circle.

I thought it was quite obvious. Hampering our communication effectively cuts down our chances of finding scum.

[Spinach]

ODDin: yes, I know the silencer's role could be exactly that. I wasn't ruling it out, I was merely commenting that nobody's silenced in-thread. Also on the topic of the Tarballs vote: if this was a larger game and a larger scumteam then not voting for Starbuck wouldn't be as significant. In a 9-player game I think it's pretty good info. Sure, someone could be bussing, but on the reread I felt it was much more likely that one of Tarballs and Spinach was scum with Starbuck and Tarballs seemed to be trying to gently push Starbuck away from her attack on Hernz rather than calling her out on it.

Spinach: have you used your day-talking powers much? I've mostly used them to prod people thus far. I don't really think that stopping prods is a major scum goal.

Yes, I admit it may not be a major scum goal, and I have personally only have used it minimally, but I feel that it may become more useful towards end-game.

[Spinach]

Mod: Could we get a prod on Monkey, who hasn't posted in 4 days?

[Spinach]

Ugh. I'm sorry for disappearing, my parents decided to take me on a surprise vacation for my birthday, I didn't have time to post about my absence, it was the last thing on my mind. I'm sorry, it won't happen again.

Spinach: why would the day-talking become more useful towards end-game? What were you planning to do?

With power roles such as cop and tracker claiming later in the game, more emphasis is put on the private daytalking, because power roles can then indirectly claim through their neighbors.

[Spinach]

Here's a question for both of you: if one of your neighbours came to you and told you they had a role and what it was, would you believe them? Would you tell them what your role was?

I would think about if I believed them, as I would if any other role claimed in any other game. And no, I doubt I would claim to them. If they're comfortable claiming their role to me, they have to be some investigative role, and therefore know I am town, which is enough for them to know.

[Spinach]

Mod: V/LA until Sunday-ish. RL crap sprung up that I have to deal with.

[Spinach]

Spinach:
1) He didn't vote for Starbuck.

Excuse me for not jumping on the last minute bandwagon. And not voting for a person who at that point I didn't think was scum would be ridiculous. You think I'm scummy for being wrong. We're all wrong sometimes. Plus you think Tarballs is perfectly town, but he didn't vote for Starbuck either. If you're going to apply the 'you didn't vote the scum, you must be scum!1!!' you have to apply it to him too.

2) This has been brought up by Locke and Fluffy, and they voted Tarballs. He then follows to gently push against Tarballs himself, in a somewhat wishy-washy manner. He's raising a suspicion, and then saying it's probably nothing. It's a classical way to attempt a win-win. When Tarballs questions him, he just says it's nothing, thus not warranting an answer - he didn't really accuse him. However, it did its job in solidifying Fluffy's opinion on Tarballs, which means it's hardly nothing. So, I think Spinach thought it was either him or Tarballs, and attempted to make sure it's gonna be Tarballs.

What do you mean I thought it was either me or tarballs? How could one make that assumption so early in the day? And it could easily be someone besdies me or tarballs for the lynch today. And the only reason I didn't vote because it would be a) Bandwagoning and b) Put Tarballs at L-1.

3) His aforementioned post 180 is more than far-fetched, it's outright speculation coming out of nowhere. He says the mafia were "obvsiously trying to isolate someone". I disagree. There's no way to know how much importance the mafia gives to the private discussions. Also, isolation isn't necessarily a goal per se. Any person dead hampers the communication. So, the argument is a very slippery slope, very conveniently leading to a not-so-thinly-veiled semi-accusation towards Tarballs.

It wasn't speculation coming out of nowhere. Starbuck was a silencer, so it means that since one of the mafia role's goal was to hamper communication, then wouldn't the goal of the whole mafia be the same thing?

[Spinach]

Starbuck was a silencer, so it means that since one of the mafia role's goal was to hamper communication, then wouldn't the goal of the whole mafia be the same thing?

Not necessarily. I think they can choose themselves how they want to approach the game and how to best utilize their roles. And we don't know what the remaining scum's role is.

You see like you know there is one scum left. There can still be two scum left or other anti-town roles.

What do you mean I thought it was either me or tarballs? How could one make that assumption so early in the day? And it could easily be someone besdies me or tarballs for the lynch today. And the only reason I didn't vote because it would be a) Bandwagoning and b) Put Tarballs at L-1.

Because both Fluffy and myself had indicated you and Tarballs as top suspects and we'd both voted for Tarballs. I had made it particularly clear that I thought it was you or Tarballs. Once Fluffy had voted for Tarballs too, you then suggested your theory, further implicating him but without actually voting him as this would, as you say, have put him at L-1, thus looking incredibly scummy.

I don't recall you making it clear. You gave your feelings on everyone, but only voted Tarballs. It would've made more sense if you were to indicate other people you thought were scummy, maybe with a list of some sort, because the way you posted it (175) had left the back door open to infer who was most scummiest after Tarballs. And fluffy said it was tarballs/me/hernz, not tarballs/me.

[Spinach]

I didn't flat-out say 'either Spinach or Tarballs is scum', no. What I did say was that neither of you really attacked Starbuck like other players were doing, I didn't think ODDin, Fluffy or MonkeyMan were and I figured Hernz was an outside chance. I didn't think I needed to help you along any more than that. I was indicating that Hernz included you and Tarballs among his top suspects, not that you were the only people he thought might be scum.

This is again, you yelling at me because I was wrong. People have different feelings toward certain players. So I thought Starbuck was town, and monkey was scum at that point. Not everybody has to attack the same person, and someone not attacking someone based on ( what I thought dumb) reasons is not a scumtell.

[Spinach]

ODDin: Understood. I just don't see why you didn't apply it to Tarballs, who you think is perfectly town.


KittyMo:
1) Yes, OMGUS random vote. Just poking fun at that point. What can I say? It was the random voting stage.

2) Yes, It was a little harsh. Don't see how being harsh = scummy.

3) What do you mean the WIFOM seems incomplete?

4) When you figure it out, feel free to run it by me, I'll explain.

And about the LL case: I'd like to point out the if you look at his posts in isolation, notice posts 7, 8, and 9 all contain Unvote, votes. Votehopping much?

[Spinach]

Yes, I know that, I'm just saying that you never said that when you gave him a rundown of the players.

[Spinach]

Monkey: No. You lurked without telling us. This is your consequence, you were replaced.

LL: You don't seem to be able to weigh cases correctly. Just because someone says something doesn't mean that it is the best case in the world.
And that last bit: People can sway other people's opinions. Saying I'm scummy for not thinking you're scummy until someone else brought it up doesn't make any sense.


You all keep saying I'm scummy, yet you're doing nothing about it. If you think I'm scummy, vote me, no need to stretch the day reiterating points against me. I have nothing to lose if I die; that is, if it helps the town.

[Spinach]

I wasn't lurking, I was moving and was without internet access. But whatever.

You should have told us instead of disappearing, then.

[Spinach]

Well, since my fate is decided I'll

Vote: Tarballs

.

GL finding scum in future days, I'll be reading the thread. :)

[Spinach]

Hernz: I doubt it, I'm on top of everybody's scumlist, so there is really no point in fighting it anymore, when whatever I said is used against me. Townies are expendable.

And if you didn't get that claim I'll go ahead and

Claim: Townie

.

[Spinach]

I didn't make a case because everything I say is twisted back around and used against me. But if you insist, I'll have a post up later tonight. Feel free to hammer (or I will if you so wish) after then.

[Spinach]

To anyone who feels like answering:

What is your opinions on the random voting stage?

Why did you pick this game in particular?

Who do you expect to be the first person to be lynched this game, and why?

Who do you want to be lynched first this game, and why?


Thank you for your time.

1. I have no real opinion on the random voting stage. It's as good as any way to get a game started, I guess.

2. I like the idea behind it, the talking to people "next to you". It seems very intriguing and I can wait to see how the whispering plays out.

3. I don't know, I'm hoping it won't be me, as I tend to be an early lynch when playing town.

4. I don't have any opinions on any of the players at this particular moment.

Claramata, the former Tarballs, makes an oddly worded response and then disappears. Scum points for Tarballs.

Hi, I'll be replacing Claramata. Took a quick glance at the thread and will post some thoughts later.

If I understood post #2 correctly, there's supposed to be a circle that shows who's everyone's "neighbour" is, but I can't see it. Unless it's this:

MonkeyMan576 (1): Spinach
Droideka_11 (1): Henrz
ODDin (0):
Spinach (2): MonkeyMan576, Starbuck
DOESnotWANT (0):
Locke Lamora (0):
Claramata (0):
Henrz (0):
Starbuck (3): Droideka_11, ODDin, DOESnotWANT

So, is it that?

Tarball's first post asking for clarification. Neutral points.

What is your opinions on the random voting stage?

It gets the game going. Random questions are better, though.

Why did you pick this game in particular?

I just got killed in another game and am modding a similar game as this, so the timing seemed fitting.

Who do you expect to be the first person to be lynched this game, and why?

Easier to say who it's

not

going to be. Locke Lamora and DOESnotWANT are very likely to survive this day, I believe, based on their pro-town way of playing.

Who do you want to be lynched first this game, and why?

No idea yet.

And by the way, you didnt answer those questions yourself. Now that everyone else has answered, it's your turn. :D


And wow, is this game really stalling. ODDin, MonkeyMan and DnW haven't posted for almost a week. Where are you?

Tarballs: what is your opinion of your neighbours?

Just you and Hernz, or everyone? A player-by-player analysis seems rather useless this early on. No one's really standing out yet, in neither a good or a bad way... I guess that's also the reason the game has stalled. It feels like we're still in the random voting stage.

Tarballs responds to questions. It is

VERY

odd Tarballs would even think of saying someone is town right off of the bat, and then says nobody stands out, and a contradiction on top of it. He then asks for clarifacation on a fairly obvious comment. Yay for filler text? >_> + scum points for Tarballs.

Weird how you say LL and DNW are pro-town, then say nobody stands out yet.
If you mean something else, feel free to correct me.

Good point, but I meant their general pro-towniness; something that occurs every game. I've read a game or two with LL in them, and he seemed to act in a very pro-town way right from the beginning, and I'm seeing it happening here as well. If someone always acts pro-town, I see it as kind of a null tell, so that doesn't stand out. I haven't seen any others of you before, but DnW is apparently an alt of Thestatusquo, whose games I have seen and recall her to be same kind of a player as LL.

I did send a PM to myk because I feel that voting for yourself is against the spirit of the game.

I would agree that it is, but we still seem to be in the random voting stage, and there's nothing wrong in selfvoting during the RVS. It's a random vote, you might as well throw it at yourself.

However! Making a random vote, and not just any vote but a selfvote, 4 pages into the game

doesn't help us progress, so therefore he is obviously stalling the game on purpose.

On the other hand, this will cause people to vote him for that anti-town play,

which quite possibly will help us leave the RVS behind.

He wants us to vote him, so that's exactly what I'm going to do :D

Vote: Henrz

Tarballs explains his earlier contradiction, but still, acting pro-town and being town

are practically the same thing

so, therefore, the contradiction still exists. Then Tarballs makes a flawed vote on hernz. Please look at the bolded parts, woot contradictions, + Scum points for reasons explained.

-Tarballs lurks for 4 days-

Ok, this is how I see it: Henrz selfvoted to get reactions that would get us out of the RVS for good. Selfvoting is never pro-town in itself, but it's not always anti-town, either. And there's also a difference between anti-town and scummy. Scummy is almost always anti-town, but anti-town isn't always scummy.

I can't see how scum would be more likely to selfvote than townies. It's fairly obvious that Hernz's selfvote was nowhere near a serious vote. I think Starbuck and especially MM are pushing a bit too hard here.

Also, look at this inconsistency between posts #106 and #108:

If you want to defend self voting as a valid tactic, that's fine. I don't. I think it's anti town.

Not necessarily so much scummy

, but definately anti town. There's better things we could be doing that will bring better results.

Lynching

scummy self-voters

.

Unvote, Vote: MonkeyMan576

Mod: Votecount? And how about prodding/replacing DOESnotWANT?

Um, no, you didn't see it like that. You said Hernz was stalling and doesn't help us progress. Infact, this whole post contradicts with his last post. He then points out a contradiction with Monkey and votes him. + Scum points for Tarballs. He's the king of contradictions by now...

-Tarballs lurks again, this time for 3 days-

What has it done to the game other than having us all fight about whether self-voting is wrong?

So you think that debating about whether or not self-voting is wrong is bad? I think it's exactly the opposite - it got the discussion going and we got out of the RVS for good. And most importantly, everyone reacted to Hernz's selfvote in different ways, which is also very informative. Take this, for example:

And the response to the Random vote... Doesn't really help...

Unvote Vote: Henrz

. Discuss.

...

I don't think that's a particularly great reaction, because it looks like Droideka wanted to wait for everyone else to comment on that first, before saying anything himself. He doesn't comment the selfvote at all, until Hernz explains why he did it. Then we get this:

I think Henrz explanation for voting for himself was satisfactory. This looks like a blatant bandwagon to me.

So, why didn't you comment on the selfvote before Hernz explained it? If you were just waiting for an explanation, why was that?

Again, another contradiction to his first post after Hernz's vote, he again reinstates his previous contradiction. He then makes a totally horrible guess on Droid's comment. He says droid was waiting, but if droid's object was to wait for other comments, why would he make a post? If he would've just waited he could've done the same thing, but less recognizable. To me it seems like that comment showed his unapproval of hernz's actions.

Um... That was the hammer right there. And we didn't even get a claim. Or the replacer's thoughts.

Tarballs points out the hammer. Neither scummy nor town...ish.

END OF DAY ONE

Lets Recap:
* Claramata has a funny response, and Tarballs contradicts like crazy.
* He didn't vote starbuck, and had very little reaction with her. I realize I did the same but this is against Tarballs, not me.

Day 2 up later.

[Spinach]

The end of last day really was interesting, to say the least. MonkeyMan was my top suspect, but after that hammer and Starbuck flipping scum, I don't see him getting lynched in near future. I'll still keep my eye on him, though.

Is everyone up for lynching Monkey tomorrow (depending on if Starbuck is scum or not)?

I don't quite understand what the meaning of this question was. Were you willing to just go and speedlynch MonkeyMan if Starbuck had flipped town?

It's just crap. I was asked to give my suspicions. I've had a notepad document going because I prefer big analysis posts rather than the 5 billion posts people make when doing analysis. I was going to finish it up when I got home and post it. I was getting ready to and noticed I was hammered. No wait, no nothing. I really was looking forward to this game, thank you all for ruining it based on the fact that I hate self-voting rather than anything scummy.

I know. I've also had a fairly large post in the works in my notes section, but

all that work is now in vain

. It's very frustrating.

How is it in vain? It's never too late to post your thoughts, or at least some of them, even if Starbuck was quickhammered. Well, unless you were about to defend her.

Good to see we were spot on with Starbuck.

There he goes again, tapping himself in the back. :D

Considering the behind-the-scenes PMs, I don't think we should have dead people replacing in.

Yeah, agreed. And dead people shouldn't even post in the thread, or that's what rule #15 says anyway.

Mod: Could we have some info on who replaced who on the first post? Otherwise it will get really confusing, if there are more replacements.

Tarball's first post on D2, indicating that monkey is suddenly town because he hammers, meaning he is out of suspects. more interestingly, he doesn't reply to anything LL has said about him, only to make a joke. + Minor scum points for tarballs.

Is everyone up for lynching Monkey tomorrow (depending on if Starbuck is scum or not)?

I don't quite understand what the meaning of this question was. Were you willing to just go and speedlynch MonkeyMan if Starbuck had flipped town?

That question is still without an answer.

Also, while we're on the topic of Tarballs, I realized something.
I realized that (from the nightkill) the mafia have another goal in this game: to hamper communication.
Then I looked at the nightkill. They were obviously trying to isolate someone, and they could do it in two ways:
a) Kill Droid and isolate Monkey. (the outcome)
b) Kill Tarballs and isolate Hernz.

So I have a question: Why was option a chosen over option b? Could Tarballs be scum, rendering option b impossible? I know it seems... far-fetched, but I'd just like to throw it out there while we're talking about him.

Trying to guess why the scum killed who they killed, when there is no obvious reason, is almost never a good idea. And if the mafia really wanted to isolate someone, they could've just flipped a coin between me and Droideka. Or something. Anyhow, the fact that I wasn't killed doesn't prove anything here.

spinach - i think that's an interesting theory, hadn't thought of it from that angle,

but isn't that assuming that communication is important to playing this game, it hasn't added anything new for me at the stage of the game, could be just me though.

Yeah, I had thought of it as useless until Starbuck died, then I realized we could have an all-silencer mafia.

How do you even know what a Silencer does? How would it make this different if there were two Silencers instead of just one? And it also seems like you knew that a Silencer exists before Starbuck even flipped... which should be impossible, if you're town.

Vote: Spinach

I make a post agaist tarballs, but suddenly, he cares about my post! But not about LL's, or Fluffy. And the fact that you weren't killed DOES prove something here, and asking how I know what a silencer does is like asking how I know what a doctor does. It's pretty self-explanatory. He then thinks I knew a silencer existed before starbuck flipped.. yet fails to bring up any evidance from D1. To me, it seems like Tarballs, the scum, was out of targets and decided to pick up on me for flawed reasons. + scum points for Tarballs.

Oops, sorry, In answer. Kinda yes... But, I was meaning like after his defence, not before, and even then maybe not, but yeah, I kinda was. Bus NOT a speedlynch.

That's a horribly wishy-washy answer. :D

Did you fail to read that last sentence? I've bolded it for your reading convenience. I said that I just wanted to throw it out there, and that I knew it was far-fetched, and that it probably meant next to nothing.

I did read the last sentence. It's just that you admitted yourself that it was far-fetched, and that it "probably means next to nothing", yet you still felt the need of pointing it out.


And is it just me, or is this game starting to slow down again?

Mod: I'm requesting that you prod ODDin, who hasn't posted for almost a week now.

Tarballs points out the obvious flaw in Hernz's answer. Filler Text. And even if something means next to nothing, I wanted the village's feedback. Posting something is better than nothing. + scum points for Tarballs.

Ugh... Yeah, nothing is happening here. I'm on a 4-week vacation now, so I should have more time. Hopefully this game starts to pick up some pace.

You still haven't responded to Fluffy and LL.

They're voting for me because I wasn't on the Starbuck wagon yesterday, which is something that I can't change anymore. And they didn't even ask anything that I could've answered to.

To be honest, I wasn't following Locke on the Tarballs vote, I just sat down to try and analyse who could be scum partner objectively - ie. based on voting patterns, which is based on the information we got from day 1 in light of the outcome of the lynch and nightkill, I didn't even realise Locke had voted Tarballs until I posted and then read his post.

That's one of the main reasons why people get hammered accidentally. You should

always

look what everyone else is doing before you vote, even if you don't want their decisions to affect yours.

I haven't really used day talking at all.. how do you guys think it should be used? :roll:

Here are some hypothetical examples:

You're a tracker, and you tracked your neighbor last night. You found out that they visited no one. In a one-scum game, which we assume we're in right now, that should mean that your target cannot have killed anyone last night. Therefore, he/she must be town, so you could use your day-talking abilities to claim privately to your neighbor, which could make him trust you more.

A confirmed cop has publicly claimed that he has investigated player X, and found out that X is town. Now, both of X's neighbors could claim to X by using their daytalking ability.

No, they were voting you for more than that. You could also explain why you weren't on the wagon yesterday. You're just refusing to respond. +Scum points for Tarballs.

Here's a question for both of you: if one of your neighbours came to you and told you they had a role and what it was, would you believe them? Would you tell them what your role was?

I pretty surely would not outright claim to them, no matter what. And whether I would believe their claim or not is rather impossible to say.

And I'm thirding the request for a massprod. There's some serious lurking going on here.

Oh, so Tarballs has something to hide? Interesting. + scum points for Tarballs.

Why do you have both ODDin and Spinach as neutral?

You could actually give reasons to all of your reads, not just the neutral ones.

Hernz:

Are you still here?

ODDin:

Who do you think is scum?

Asking questions. Minor town points, one of his few posts that isn't scummy to me.

-Tarballs Lurks for 4 days-

I'm not voting Spinach because that'll put him at L-1, if I'm not mistaken (4 to lynch, Locke and Tarballs are both voting him).

After what happened yesterday, I'd say that's somewhat understandable. But why don't you want to put someone on L-1? If you're suspicious about someone, you shouldn't be afraid to vote.

2) This has been brought up by Locke and Fluffy, and they voted Tarballs. He then follows to gently push against Tarballs himself, in a somewhat wishy-washy manner. He's raising a suspicion, and then saying it's probably nothing. It's a classical way to attempt a win-win. When Tarballs questions him, he just says it's nothing, thus not warranting an answer - he didn't really accuse him. However, it did its job in solidifying Fluffy's opinion on Tarballs, which means it's hardly nothing. So, I think Spinach thought it was either him or Tarballs, and attempted to make sure it's gonna be Tarballs.

What do you mean I thought it was either me or tarballs? How could one make that assumption so early in the day? And it could easily be someone besdies me or tarballs for the lynch today. And the only reason I didn't vote because it would be a) Bandwagoning and b) Put Tarballs at L-1.

The same applies here. And bandwagoning isn't automatically a bad thing.

Starbuck was a silencer, so it means that since one of the mafia role's goal was to hamper communication, then wouldn't the goal of the whole mafia be the same thing?

Not necessarily. I think they can choose themselves how they want to approach the game and how to best utilize their roles. And we don't know what the remaining scum's role is.

Tarballs shows that he wants me lynched fast, very scummy. He then points out that bandwagoning isn't bad, also scummy. He then hints that the reaming scum may have a role. Interesting... + scum points for Tarballs.

KittyMo, are you giving up already? :(

And if I've understood correctly, the deadline is on Monday, which is 3 days from now. Luckily it says in the rules that a lynch will happen even if there is no majority at the deadline, but I'd still like to hear everyone's opinions so that you don't get a cheap excuse for tomorrow in case we fail to lynch the last scum off today.

This post just confuses me. The last part. . .It's directed at me, right?

He replaced Claramata, whose only post contained an oddly phrased statement. (#3)

But, other than that, I can't really find anything he does scummy. This statement seems off, though:

Good to see we were spot on with Starbuck.

There he goes again, tapping himself in the back. :D

But, that was apparently a joke, so I'm not too worried.

Read: Neutral (but if I had to go either way, I'd go slight town)

Previously you said you had a slight scum read on me, but now you're not seeing anything odd about my play except that "apparent joke". So what made you change your mind?

And I didn't mean that comment as a joke. I recalled someone called out Locke on day 1 for him patting himself in the back, then saw him do that again at start of day 2. I don't know if it meant that much, but I felt it wouldn't hurt to point it out.

perhaps he hasn't seen your meta?

I believe I already told how Locke seems pro-town in every game and is therefore very difficult to get a read on. And the game that you posted isn't that great of an example, since Locke replaced in so late in the game and didn't get to say very much.

Wondering why Tarballs is asking what makes him town.. that doesn't make sense for a townie to ask. And then about the joke bit: He says it wouldn't hurt to point it out, well I thought it wouldn't hurt to point out the kill. Contradictions. + scum points.

[Spinach]

It's time to decide. ODDin, KittyMo, either hammer me, or Vote Tarballs. It's that simple. I've made my argument, he's made his. Let's go.

[Spinach]

Nope not the last scum, just a townie.
Please lynch Tarballs tomorrow, avenge my death? :P