Mini 808 - Rabbit Doubt Mafia: Over!

[Kreriov]

Piling votes on someone who is not around is not something I like doing. I do not think that is a bad reason to unvote. I also will not vote for someone who I think might be scummy just to be voting. Tenchi has done some scummy things. Or maybe he has done some overly zealous townie things. I am not sure so removed my vote for now. That Kmd then somehow links me to myko and Tenchi is ludicrous - scummy at worst and a bad attempt to try and get a reaction at best.

@Iecerint - Not sure why you think I should immediately attack someone. I have suspicions and have voiced them, but just do not see anything strong enough to warrant a vote. Rushing to judgement is not good. I think the byplay between Kmd, Myko, PhilyEc and you could lead to something, but even then, that is only 5 (counting me) of the 12 people in the game. Batt seems to be getting involved a bit now as well. It is 4th of July weekend. I think it is a very good time for me to see what develops and look at things fresh on monday.

[Iecerint]

If you don't want to pursue the Tenchi situation because he's not here, I think that's a reasonable course of action; however, failing to bring up an alternate conversation topic will lead to lurker behavior for anyone who agrees with you, as there's implicitly nothing to discuss until Tenchi comes back and restarts the thread. Your decision not to provide an alternate topic of conversation is a null-tell in my view -- you've pointed out reasonably that you don't want to rush into anything -- but I still wish you'd offered a preferred way to spend the time while Tenchi was away.

[mykonian]

Myko- please answer my request:


Tell me what Tenchi has done that is so risky, that scum would not do it.

Tenchi was IIRC the first to come with hard accusations, that were likely wrong. That is a town tell.

but like Iece said: a towntell doesn't make him definate town. Just more likely then he would be without it.

I'm getting a bit more uncertain about my KMD vote, although his recent theories dont help, but Phily's buddying gets so obvious...

unvote vote Phily

I think you should not tunnel on tenchi, and not use tenchi as leverage to defend KMD.

[PhilyEc]

Myko- please answer my request:


Tell me what Tenchi has done that is so risky, that scum would not do it.

Tenchi was IIRC the first to come with hard accusations, that were likely wrong. That is a town tell.

but like Iece said: a towntell doesn't make him definate town. Just more likely then he would be without it.

I'm getting a bit more uncertain about my KMD vote, although his recent theories dont help, but Phily's buddying gets so obvious...

unvote vote Phily

I think you should not tunnel on tenchi, and not use tenchi as leverage to defend KMD.

^ Another OMGUS
I've barely talked directly about Tenchi. I dont see where I've tunneled, besides having to mention his name to explain why your accusations in that double vote post are scummy.

Myk, why is everyone who suspects you scum? I'm obviously attacking you for your scummy behaviour, as I see fit to do whenever something dodgy comes up, the fact that KMD is involved has made you paranoid over the fact that I'm 'buddying' with him seeing as how you suspect him. I think you're infact wrong. He isnt trying to hide, hes not playing a cautious game here (ie not risk taking) and his posts have been far more substantive than your own, the fact that you vote for him under these pretences is what I consider scummy.

You turning around a voting for me for not agreeing with you also tells me you're cracking under pressure, I'd advise you stop fabricating facts and answer some of the questions posted to you besides from myself.

[ZazieR]

EBWOP: On that note, I'll be

V/LA July 5th to July 10th

. I should be able to check in on Tuesday night, though.

Noted

[ZazieR]

1) Kmd4390
2) mykonian (1) - PhilyEc
3) Bitchibee (1) - PaperPenguin
4) Ztife (1) - Looker
5) Looker
6) Iecerint
7) MafiaMann
8) Kreriov

9) Tenchi (3) - Battousai, Kmd4390, iecerint

10) PhilyEc (1) - mykonian
11) Battousai (1) - Tenchi
12) PaperPenguin (1) - Mafiamann

Not voting (3) - Bitchibee, Ztife, Kreriov

With 12 players alive, you''ll need 7 votes to lynch.
Green indicates closest to lynch.

Room 1: Male Restroom - Kmd4390
Room 2: ???

Room 3: Library - Bitchibee, PaperPenguin

Room 4: ???
Room 5: ???

Room 6: Dark Room
Room 7: Storage Room - PhilyEc, Mykonian
Room 8: Great Hall
Room 9: Bedroom - Kreriov
Room 10: Empty Room - Iecerint

Room 11: ???
Room 12: Crime Scene Room - Looker, Battousai

Room 13: Exit Room - Ztife

Room 14: ???

Black means that that the door is open.
Red means that the door is closed.
Room 14 is in darkred, as it's its door in a different room, which got locked by Iecerint. So nobody, except for Iecerint (who can't use his barcode on it) can get to this door. So nobody can open this door until Iecrint unlocks his door.
Then there's purple. Room 7 also had an extra door in it. This one was opened by Mykonian. As Mykonian didn't leave this room when PhilyEc closed Room 7 and as Mykonian's door isn't locked, both Mykonian and PhilyEc can still move between these two rooms.

Corridor - Tenchi, Mafiamann

NOTE: When you open a room, you''ll automatically enter it.

[ZazieR]

Prodding Ztife for his second time. Also looking for a replacement Bitchibee.

[Battousai]

Myko- please answer my request:


Tell me what Tenchi has done that is so risky, that scum would not do it.

Tenchi was, IIRC, the first to come with hard accusations, that were likely wrong. That is a town tell.

But like Iece said, a towntell doesn't make him definite town, just more likely then he would be without it.

I'm getting a bit more uncertain about my KMD vote, although his recent theories don't help, but Phily's buddying gets so obvious...

unvote vote Phily

I think you should not tunnel on Tenchi, and not use Tenchi as leverage to defend KMD.

SFOS: Mykonian

- Are you saying that voting me for going into the storage room is a hard accusation that is likely wrong?

You are saying that as long as you pursue your accusations, it is a towntell, no matter what the accusation was.

Also, this is the second time you've "tried" to help player's game by telling them what they should, and shouldn't do. This is also not your first time you are telling someone they are defending, busing, or buddying someone else, based solely on the fact that both parties attention is on you right now.

[ZazieR]

As some of you know/saw, I posted in all my games that I''ll be V/LA this weekend. I want to think about some things. I might be posting around if I can keep my thoughts focused on the game, but I won''t promise anything. I''ll try to prod though if needed. Anyway, I''ll try to get back asap. See you all soon.

[mykonian]

no, bat, I said it before about Phily. I think it is fishy he actually doesn't say a thing about KMD, while he is accusing me for voting KMD.

and scum and town would go into the storage room, so I don't think that a good scumtell, while Tenchi did try to get the game really started that way.

and I did vote Phily, and I "coached" him. That is a way of expressing my theories about what he is doing here. I can't see how it is sneaky in some way.

o and phily, you again got the term OMGUS wrong. It is a reasonless countervote, something I again didn't do.

[mykonian]

but yes, you are right, I should give a bit more attention to this game, because I've already found 4 scum, and 1 town, and those theories dont really fit. I'll try to get a clearer post tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

but yes, you are right, I should give a bit more attention to this game, because I've already found 4 scum, and 1 town, and those theories dont really fit. I'll try to get a clearer post tomorrow.

I've done better. I found the whole scumteam.

[Tenchi]

335:

I think the two most suspect actions taken by players so far have been Kmd's focus on myko (which doesn't strike me as scummy so much as unusual) and Batt's vig soft claim (even if he afterward said it was intended to be hypothetical). I also don't know what to make of Kmd holing himself up in the Male Restroom. Batt's other behavior seems town to me, and the vig thing has already been dealt with, so I don't think badgering him would be productive.

Fair enough. I still find Battousai suspicious though, but I am willing to pursue other leads.

340: Interesting. Who leaves the room etc. But wouldn't it be best to put together people who find each other suspicious to make this more effective?

344: As far as I can remember, I suspect Batt for:

1. Going into the weapons storage room when there are other rooms open.

My suspicions still hold.

345: Iecerint summarizes how I feel:

" He's explained this as a playstyle; he likes to be aggressive with his best current lead. "

353: Looker, I have nothing more to add as far as I can remember. He did give the excuse that he might be a Vig needing something there, but I am not buying it. See below.

356: Paperpenguin reminds me of why I pushed the Battousai case: He never gave a clear answer why he picked that room. He did waffle around flavor. Although PP doesn't find it scummy, I still do.

358: Battousai, you are misunderstanding the timing of why I suspect you. We never talked about flavor before you went inside that room. The thing is, I see no possible intent on why the hell you would pick that room. Currently however, there has been consensus that it may be healthier that we all mask the power roles in gaining their abilities by everyone going into all the rooms.

Right now, I am still quite iffy by the proposal, but I am considering it. If I do fold and accept it fully however, that would be folding my suspicions of you.

Summary: I am firm with my decisions, but I am not close-minded.

360:

on page 4, tenchi comes with a crap case on battousai, and it is a subjective attack, mostly. It is about battousai not having a key.

MY CASE ON BATTOUSAI IS NOT ABOUT HIM NOT HAVING A KEY. KTHXBYE. (Read above.)

Also, you summarize my reactions to Battousai's defense and accuse me of not having any points AT ALL. Talk about selective reading! Sure I am arrogant at some of my reactions, but I always supported them with arguments. Instead, you took soundbytes from my posts!

361: I think I have answered some concerns on my stance in the Batt wagon given these new posts.

363: Good point by PhilyEC. It was interesting he didn't vote for me despite him calling my case weak or presenting no points for my vote/suspicions. Odd that he uses his "gut" to vote for KMD.

370: Interesting. Myk accuses KMD of being a Survivor with an NK.

388: Although you should unvote me :-p I think KMD makes a good point here, except #1:

Tenchi is away, unable to defend himself, and despite my suspicions, I am not really convinced he is scum. After reading everything, I am afraid I may be influenced by the fact that he has actually been very active and has actions to analyze.

Unvote

^This is a weak unvote.

1) Away or not, he's still scummy
2) "despite your suspicions", you aren't "convinced he's scum"? What's that even supposed to mean.
3) He only looks scummy because he's active?!? Um, what???

400: Fair enough reply by Kreriov.

406: Good point by Batt:

Not being able to say a player's name isn't much of a hindrance...

MafiaMann has no excuse to not participate. We have codenames remember?

408: Mykonian explains his vote for KMD vs his suspicions of me. Noting it here.

Tenchi is a player that tends to play with fire, like he does here. His things he said were scummy, but he took risks, something I consider town.

KMD does exactly the opposite. Tries not to stand out, but still be here. Brings little new, doesnt lead the game, like he likes to. Scummy behaviour for certain.

Phily: you are looking too much at prove, not at motivations. A player that takes risks, and stands out, is per definition more town. Check the meta on this site.

415: Now now... here is the thing. I am town, and has no partner etc. (not that it will change your minds but I am just thinking aloud here). Why would somebody would want to discuss their suspicion of me and not vote for me? In my POV, there is nothing to distance from. Now, could it be

A. They just find me suspicious but find another person more suspicious.
B. They are scum but wants to preserve me for
B1. a later lynch
B2. a frame up in case they bus the person who "distanced" from me.

I'm thinking...

423

I also think it's a little weird that you won't let anyone into the bathroom with you, flavor aside.

Also, is Batt aware that he's locked in the Crime Scene Room with Looker?

I'm not complaining

I don't know what it could imply but it should be interesting.

Now here's another thought for EVERYBODY:

If we lock each other in groups, and the owner of the key dies, then how do we get out? Or should we stay in those rooms?

[Kmd4390]

Tenchi, so much of that is just IIOA. We know what happened. Opinions on it are better than just a recap. Other than that you are suspicious of Batt, I don't even know where you stand on most of what you just posted about.

[PhilyEc]

no, bat, I said it before about Phily. I think it is fishy he actually doesn't say a thing about KMD, while he is accusing me for voting KMD.

and scum and town would go into the storage room, so I don't think that a good scumtell, while Tenchi did try to get the game really started that way.

and I did vote Phily, and I "coached" him. That is a way of expressing my theories about what he is doing here. I can't see how it is sneaky in some way.

o and phily, you again got the term OMGUS wrong. It is a reasonless countervote, something I again didn't do.

Your case against me is that I dont agree with you one bit. I think the spotlight should be on you right now so using deflections over me not talking about KMD isnt a case.

You've fabricated a case in order to vote for me, first came the need to vote for me then came the motive (after thinking one up). Its a blatant OMGUS and you suck for even trying to squirm your way out of that fact.

[Iecerint]

Tenchi, I have to say that I agree with Kmd with regard to your return post. It reads more like a summary of non-Tenchi troubling behavior than an individual's take on the game. For example, you'll comment that someone said something "interesting" without providing any context. What kind of interesting? Scummy? Insightful? It's not always clear. The closest you come to what I was hoping for is your (implicit) suspicion of myko.

That said, I think you bring up some good points that others haven't been emphasizing. I agree that myko's "soundbyte" summary of your defense was lacking, as was his claim that your case against Batt was based on his being keyless. I think the second of these was poor play rather than scummy play -- it's such an extreme misrepresentation that I don't think anyone would make it intentionally.

I think Batt's comment is just a joke about the flavor of being locked in a room with someone of indeterminate gender and the mod. On that note, given that your suspicion of Batt is based around his Storage Room entry, why aren't you suspicious of Phily for deviating from Kmd's room assignment plan? IMO both players have offered plausible-if-not-excellent explanations for their behavior (respectively, no key -> has to go into some room, random apart from that, [extra]-soft-vig claim if that doesn't satisfy you; and having misread in-thread).

myko's side of the Phily/myko discussion is doing even less for me, but it may just be that they've tunneled in on one another a bit. myko, do you really believe that there are 4 scum? Also, who's your hypothesized 4th scum? I recall that you've emphasized Phily/Kmd/Tenchi the past few days.

[Tenchi]

I am actually still feeling out other people right now. The only thing suspicious I have seen so far (or I can remember on top of my head) is Mykonian's soundbyting of my case, then not voting for me.

I reread what I wrote and I do understand that it lacks more insight. However, the notes where I said "interesting" is something for me to review/reread because I am really not sure about them.

[Tenchi]

I think Batt's comment is just a joke about the flavor of being locked in a room with someone of indeterminate gender and the mod. On that note, given that your suspicion of Batt is based around his Storage Room entry, why aren't you suspicious of Phily for deviating from Kmd's room assignment plan? IMO both players have offered plausible-if-not-excellent explanations for their behavior (respectively, no key -> has to go into some room, random apart from that, [extra]-soft-vig claim if that doesn't satisfy you; and having misread in-thread).

I find Phily not suspicious because for him to open up the storage room, he had to know what was behind Room 7. I doubt anybody was given any room information in this game. His deviation here is what I would call really random, which I find acceptable.

Batt's "random" picking was not random. He had the information on what the rooms contained, but went to room 7. Hence, I find him suspicious.

[Looker]

Icerint's Post 402 - The more you know.

Battousai's Post 404 - Fixed.

Icerint's Post 421 - What can be deduced from all room-based behaviors so far? Can anything be implied by this and can we come to a decision as to whether or not this should affect scumminess? I believe we're beating around the bush in regards to it.

Tenchi's Post 437 - So your case could be more adequately denoted as: "I don't believe him." Is this correct?

And as a catalyst:

Can at least one player from each of the following three groups make the following decision?

The choices are a)vote: [Tenchi, Battousai, KMD, or Icerint] or b)"I think all of these four are town".

And the groups are:

Group 1. Looker & Ztife*
Group 2. Mykonian & PhilyEc
Group 3. Mafiamann, Paperpenguin, & Bitchibee*

The purpose of this is to ascertain a general consensus as opposed to allowing a select few to dominate both conversation and opinion. Those players having a star by their name would be my preferred choice if only one from the group is to participate; however, I believe it would be more effective if every individual were to comply. Thank you for your participation.

[Battousai]

What's with the groups? Any reason why you picked yourself and Ztife or Mykonian and PhilyEc?

[Looker]

Voting patterns. I'm simply trying to be innovative. Hopefully, I can impress you somehow. Who knows?

[Gregory]

Hey guys, I'm replacement of paperpenguin. I'm reading through the game, and hope to be done tomorrow.

[Ztife]

Will be posting tonight, busy with work sorry =)

[mykonian]

no, Iece, I don't think there are 4 scum, and that is why I should try to get some order in this mess. I have the feeling I'm led too much by emotion. Esspecially when people form a case on me based on OMGUS alone...

Plus: Phily could be scum, but knowing Phily, that would mean: KMD is not his buddy, as he defends himself quite obviously.

KMD & Tenchi could fit together, KMD is not scared to attack his buddy, even sideways ("why are my buddy and that towny still alive?") but Phily and Tenchi are certainly not a team.

and I agree with what you said about Mafiaman, but he really doesnt fit in all this.


so there is much of my problem. I have problems with Phily defending KMD, but I don't think he would defend his buddy.

[PhilyEc]

So now KMD isnt scum and I am? GTFO Myk, right now:twisted: