Mini 170 - Time Travel Mafia, Game Over!

[mathcam]

Darn, I was hoping to catch the thread before anyone posted...despite having stared at the night choices for an hour, I messed up. My apologies to Fuldu, who is still quite dead.

Cam

[Crola]

Holy S%#t! You've got to be kidding me, 5 people left? I have the feeling we just lost our doc, firstly b/c Cam thought Fuldu was protected a previous night.
Next thing I'm gonna throw out for ya'll, how the hell did our so called "Vig" make it through the night?

Vote Tactix

I still don't trust you, not only 'cause you're suspicious, but also since the mafia didn't kill you. If you're logic is correct, there should have been 3 kills. One SK, one Mafia, one Vig. Now, we had 2 kills. Out of two kills, one of them most likely would have found its way to the vigilante, unless we're playing with really dumb mafia, but so far they've been doing a damn good job.
I say we kill Tactix, we'll know we made a mistake if he's a townie, but according to him, his death scene should show a non-townie role, I have a hunch he's our SK.

[Axelrod]

I agree with Crola, just about all the points he made. No one else it could really be at this point.

Vote: SubtleTactics

[Axelrod]

I agree with Crola, just about all the points he made. No one else it could really be at this point.

Vote: SubtleTactics

[Axelrod]

I agree with Crola, just about all the points he made. No one else it could really be at this point.

Vote: SubtleTactics

[SubtleTactix]

With only

FIVE

alive, it takes only

THREE

to lynch. PLEASE one of you unvote me until we've had a chance to sort through what's going on. Otherwise we're looking at a quick lynch, and a possible loss for the town. You can still lynch me closer to deadline, and get more info for the town to use as a result.

Holy S%#t! You've got to be kidding me, 5 people left? I have the feeling we just lost our doc, firstly b/c Cam thought Fuldu was protected a previous night.

Are you saying you think DarkLight was a doc? On what basis do you make that claim? I think you're reading too much into mathcam's mistake.

Next thing I'm gonna throw out for ya'll, how the hell did our so called "Vig" make it through the night?

I'm sure the mafia realized that I would make a great lynch target today, so didn't bother to kill me last night.

If you're logic is correct, there should have been 3 kills. One SK, one Mafia, one Vig. Now, we had 2 kills.

No, the fact that there were only two kills is not a contradiction. Last night, I traveled to Night 1 to kill Darklight. If he's our SK, then there would only be only two kills as a result. Or perhaps both SK/mafia targeted DS. There are certainly ways to explain what has happened that don't involve me being Mafia.

Out of two kills, one of them most likely would have found its way to the vigilante, unless we're playing with really dumb mafia, but so far they've been doing a damn good job.

Crola, your argument has basically consisted of "The mafia would have killed you if you were telling the truth," stated several different times. But that's not true. Mafia know I could be easier to lynch than someone else, so they left me alive.

Currently, we only have two role-claims: mine, and Uraj (Nanook claimed townie.) I think one of Crola/Axelrod is scum. I don't have a vibe for Drummer (Electra was way too lurky on Day 2). Sure, it's easy to claim townie, but no cop counter-claimed, and Uraj was a lot more reasonable about my role-claim than Crola was, so of course I'm naturally inclined to believe Uraj's claim.

Also, let me ask this: Even if you think I am scum, I can't possibly be the last scum left in the game, since two people died after Day 2 ended. Who among Crola/Uraj/Axelrod/Drummer is scum? No matter what you think of me, there's scum among the other four of you somewhere.

Finally,

I agree with Crola, just about all the points he made. No one else it could really be at this point.

Vote: SubtleTactics

You've got to be kidding. Crola merely wrote "Mafia should have killed him" several different ways. And how does Crola's argument rule out anyone else being scum?

I'm not the right lynch target here, folks.

Vote: Crola

. I know he kind of claimed townie by misunderstanding time fuel on Day 1, but a lot of people were doing that, and it could just be a ruse. I'm not 100% sure he's scum, but I'm 100% sure I'm NOT scum, and that's just as important.

--Tactix

[Crola]

Okay, you bring up some good points Tactix, but with fatal flaws.

1)

Even if you think I am scum, I can't possibly be the last scum left in the game, since two people died after Day 2 ended. Who among Crola/Uraj/Axelrod/Drummer is scum? No matter what you think of me, there's scum among the other four of you somewhere.

You're implicitly admitting scum right here.

2) You tell me to unvote you, then you go straight away with an OMGUS vote against me. Why in the world would ask someone to not vote you, only to vote them when you finish speaking? This will only want me to leave my vote on more.

3) Darklight could very well have been a doctor, and we now know for a fact you killed him.

Finally, your really long post was just a sophisticated way of whining about the fact that you don't want to be voted for simply for the fact that you were still alive. You claimed Vig, with

NO

pressure on you! You knew the risks of this claim! You've probably done more damage than you realize if you trully are a vig, which at this point I doubt.


You have only harmed us thus far. I will not pull my vote.

[mathcam]

Current Official Vote Count

:

Tactix (2, Axelrod, Crola)
Crola (1, Tactix)

Not Voting: Uraj, Drummer

3 to lynch.

[SubtleTactix]

1)

Even if you think I am scum, I can't possibly be the last scum left in the game, since two people died after Day 2 ended. Who among Crola/Uraj/Axelrod/Drummer is scum? No matter what you think of me, there's scum among the other four of you somewhere.

You're implicitly admitting scum right here.

No I am not, and you're just trying to manipulate people by saying that. I am pointing out that lynching me does not solve all the town's problems, regardless of whether you think I'm scum.

2) You tell me to unvote you, then you go straight away with an OMGUS vote against me. Why in the world would ask someone to not vote you, only to vote them when you finish speaking? This will only want me to leave my vote on more.

It's not simply OMGUS. Your posts against me have been antagonistic and very anti-town. You haven't posted anything in your own defense -- just claimed that I must be scum. You're trying to push through my lynch before the town has a chance to consider things fully. Answer this question: Why should anyone

believe you are pro-town

?

3) Darklight could very well have been a doctor, and we now know for a fact you killed him.

Again...

on what basis do you claim Darklight was the doctor

? Do you have an investigative role? You have not backed this up with any facts at all! He could just as easily have been the SK. All we

know

is that he's not a townie.

You have only harmed us thus far.

Nonsense. Can you

please

justify this statement? If I hadn't claimed, we'd be even more in the dark than we already are. At some point, people have to share what they know.

I will not pull my vote.

Crola, if you were truly pro-town, you'd be willing to entertain other possibilities, consider them fully, then reach a course of action. Why is that such an unpleasant regimen?

Regardless, we need input from the others. Uraj, Drummer, you'll eventually have to decide what happens today -- you might as well ask some questions or share some thoughts first.

[Drummer]

Okay, this game is moving along very rapidly. Since I haven't gotten everything out of this game that I might have needed to...

How many scum do we think we have left?

[Drummer]

Eh, heck. Why prolong the inevitable?

Vote:SubtleTactix

[mathcam]

Official End-Of-Day Vote Count

:

Tactix (3, Axelrod, Crola, Drummer)
Crola (1, Tactix)

Not Voting: Uraj

And with that,

SubtleTactix (non-townie)

, has been lynched.

Congratulations to Axelrod and Drummer, the two mafia.

Mafia win!

I have a lot of comments on this game, but they're all unfortunately at home. I unfortunately made a couple of small errors in modding this game, which I'll be ready for next time (I plan to run something similar again). I'd like to hear your comments about the format of the game more than anything else...we can all argue until the cows come home about how balanced the game was. I think it was pretty close, and scum did a very good job this game of staying under the radar.

Roles coming soon.

Cam

[mathcam]

ROLES:

armlx - Townie
Fuldu - Townie
NanookTheWolf - Townie
Crola - Townie
Dmi - Townie
Mastermind of Sin - Townie

DarkLight140 - Doc
SapphireVerde - Backup Doc
SubtleTactix - Vigilante

Electra - Mafia
Axelrod - Mafia
Mgm - Serial Killer

Time Shields

armlx - Night 4
Fuldu - Night 3
Nanook - Night 2
Crola - Night 2
Dmi - Night 4
MoS - Night 3

[Axelrod]

Woo! Go mafia!

Frankly, I'm quite surprised it went this way. I thought the mafia was toast after day one when we both unintentionally outed ourselves as time-travellers. I even sent math a PM about it semi-complaining that it wasn't clear enough from the game set-up that basic townies didn't get an explanation of the mechanics of time fuel.

Obviously this did not prove to be fatal. Instead, this would appear to be a case of everything falling just the right way for the mafia. Not hit by SK or Vig. any night, and it appears we got help from both.

I'll definately have more comments later. 8)

[Uraj45]

I'm confused. How did the game end in 2 days when the deadline was set at 10?

[Fuldu]

Indeed, only my being dead prevented me from berating the large number of players who were upset at the fast bandwagon. A fast bandwagon doesn't matter when a lynch is only supposed to occur at deadline.

[Axelrod]

Whoops! You're right Uraj. I completely missed that. I guess math did too.

The town was still in an extremely tough spot, however. With Crola voting Tactix and Tactix voting Crola, we actually had our pick at that point. The only way out would have been if you could have persuaded both of them to change their vote to one of us. Not saying you couldn't have done it, but it would have been tough.

So what happened anyway? Here's my guess:

Night 1:

We Picked Armlx. No time travelling.
Mgm travelled to Night 2 to kill Fuldu?

Night 2:
We travelled back to night one to kill Mgm.
Mgm's choice is nullified at this point, I think.
Darklight doesn't travel to revive Armlx. (why not?)
Tactix tries to kill Mgm, but can't because he is now dead night one.

Night 3:
We travel back to night one to kill DragonSlayer
Tactix travels back to night 1 to kill Darklight.
Darklight makes some choice which is nullified because he is now dead as of night one.

Time shields are inneffecitve because most kills occur on night one when townies can't protect themselves. We had six fuel-units total, meaning we could make a total of 4 night one kills. And that was our plan from the beginning.

[Crola]

Oh well, even though Tactix was a Vig, he killed our doctor.
Wow, this was probably the quickest game I ever played.
Speedy, you asked for feedback:
1) The game was way too short, due to the whole time travel idea to it, Mafia can pick off people day one to help them win easily.
2) The Vig made it impossbile to win this time, it could have just been the way Tactix played it or it could be that the Vig is an extreme set back to the town. THe only instance the Vig could actually help the town would be to kill Mafia day 1 which would have people springto life, or if the Vig has made too many mistakes, he should be able to got to day one and kill himself, I think this should definitly be an option.
3) There should/shouldn't be a role revealing what non-townies are, this could be instead of a cop, cinsidering we didn't have one this time. Maybe the role can only investigate dead people rather than those still alive, again that's your call.
4) The fact there were only 2 Mafia helped in the balance a little.
5) Could we have some more specifications on the roles, such as time fuel each person had, and more specifications of the roles in general.

[mathcam]

Thanks for the comments, Crola.

Responses (not really in order to what they're responding to)

1) This time around, it was definitely short. I'm not so sure it would repeat like that. Plus, who's to say short games are bad?
2) Well, Tactix killed your serial killer, too, or at least would have had the mafia not done so on the same night.
3) I think the town got really unlucky in some aspects. First, the mafia never hit a night shield...I was

very

surprised that none of the town chose to place their time shields on night one. Also, the town's major strengths were its two docs...one of which got lynched on day 1, and the second of which chose not to revive until it was too late.
4) I was extremely wary of putting in any kind of investigative roles, especially with the town's ability to revive

mod-confirmed

townies.

Last, I apologize for the early lynch today, and I have to confess further that this was intentional. I had earlier and repeatedly made the mistake of putting "3 to lynch" all over the place. This was extremely misleading, and I felt that changing that would have been unfair to Drummer, who would have been an immediate target. There was just no way out, so I made the call that I thought was least unfair.

Could we have some more specifications on the roles, such as time fuel each person had, and more specifications of the roles in general.

Absolutely, as soon as I get home.

Cam

[Crola]

Thanks, also, out of complete and utter curiosity, (this is one of my first questions asked) what would have happened if someone defied your will and role claimed, would you have erased them from time, let them keep playing, or modkilled them with cahnce of revival? You don't necesarily have to answer that now, but it seems you want to make anohter game with this theme, that's definitely something to consider.

[Mgm]

Yes, on night 1 I travelled to night 2 to kill Fuldu. It caused the chaos I hoped for. It was just unfortunate I was too dead to see it unfold.

I especially like this post by SubtleTactix

I think a role-claim at this point will help shed some light on this subject. I am the vigilante, and here is an important statement:

*** I did NOT use my Night 2 action to travel to Night 1 and kill Mgm. ***

As a result, I am very confident that we have an SK on our hands. If that is correct, then probably both mafia and SK acted Night 1. But there was only one kill on Night 1 originally. So here are some possibilities:

A. Mafia and SK targeted armlx night one.
B. There will be an attempted future kill, by a scum group.
C. A doc protected somebody night one
D. A roleblocker stopped the SK night one.

D would be great, C would be good, B is not very likely. I worry most about A. Why? Because that means our doc may have spent time fuel last night to protect armlx, only to find that he is still dead (b/c he was targeted twice).

So, if the doc is still alive out there, cursing their luck, they could try to revive armlx AGAIN tonight, or they could try to revive Fuldu. A confirmed townie would definitely be an asset. I guess the positive side of this is that the doc could still very much be alive.

Notice that Mgm CANNOT be the SK: Suppose he were; then clearly he didn't go back in time to kill himself, so it must have been the mafia that did that. That means Mgm would have targeted Fuldu on night two -- except he wouldn't be alive to do it! So Mgm is not the serial killer. He COULD still be mafia.

<snip>

Just a few more assumption could've gotten me revived. I can't be mafia if the mafia killed me. And since you proclaimed me to be not the SK, that faulty logic could've cleared me if anyone had taken it further. Too bad no one did...

Was there any specific reason the mafia killed me?

[DarkLight140]

The problem was, I had only a single time-travel protect, to any night of my choice. Therefore, I didn't want to use it until I thought I could revive a townie, and preferably until someone would have several nights of protection, and after I heard about the time-fuel thing, I felt encouraged to wait until it would be harderto hit people Night 1, but I still could. So...

Night 1, I protected Fuldu.
Night 2, I figured I would be better off saving my time-travel, and so I tried to protect one of the revealed time-travels, who I figured would either be pro-town power roles or not being targeted for kills anyway, based on the single kill from Night 1. So, my randomizer chose Mgm. How ironic.
Night 3, I decided my lifespan wouldn't hold out much longer if at all, so I chose to go revive Fuldu. By my logic, he would have been protected Night 1, 2, and his time shield night, giving him pretty good odds of living for a while. Unfortunately, Tactix decided I loked scummy.

I don't get why the townies didn't start pleading townie as soon as they came under suspicion. They had no reason not to, that I could see- It tells the mafia "I have a shot at being protected if targeted, go away", tells the town "If I die and am non-townie I'm a mafia" and therefore makes the mafia reluctant to claim it for fear of being SK'ed/vig'ed, and, well, if Mastermind of Sin had claimed it I probably would have tried to switch the lynch.

[Mastermind of Sin]

you all suck for killing me...I totally was going to try to draw kills during the night...

[armlx]

Bah. I knew Axel was Mafia cuz he was the only one I could see with any random reason to kill me over a higher profile player at the time. And after somethings he said it was worse. O well, I didn't get to play. I'm sorta glad though. Time travel huts my head.

[Axelrod]

Sorry Armlx. There was just as much of a chance of you having a "power" role as anyone else, and since I "knew" that you would inspect me should you turn out to be the Cop, you had to go.

Mgm: we went after you mainly because we knew for certain that you had a time travelling role, and were some kind of danger to us. Plus, with roles not being revealed, it increased the odds that any false-claim we might make would not get countered.

Interesting that the Doc only had one time-travel protect. I thought Mgm was the Doc after Armlx didn't get revived.

And I suspect that no townie used their shield to protect on night one, because from the way the PM read it looked like you

had

to send it into the future. That's what we were assuming as mafia anyway.