Mini 808 - Rabbit Doubt Mafia: Over!

[mykonian]

@ Post 448
Why do you think phily and KMD are not scum buddies? Im not too clear on this point.

I don't see Phily (before I say this) defending his buddy this clearly. He was actively attacking my choice to vote KMD. It actually wouldn't help scum, because it would have gotten them into the spotlight

BTW:

unvote Phily

sorry phily, I shouldn't have gotten you mad. And there is just too much chance that I'm attacking an annoyed towny (would surprise me if you played being annoyed).

And no, this is not to make you unvote, I expect you to think this is again a scum-action, but I don't care. All that can make you unvote is a glass of water

[mykonian]

Me, Attacking Myk for double votes, Myk, using this as excuse to accuse me of buddying to save his own hide.
Got it now?

sorry, but like other people said, this case is not that great you think it is. It was a catchup post, and I was perfectly doing nothing wrong to vote twice in that.

but this is not the whole point, you disagree that I choose for KMD. That is the point you attack me for. Not that I distance from Tenchi, no you say I shouldn't have voted KMD. Later KMD comes with the distance stuff (as I read it)

Sorry I see my name being mentioned alot but I dont have the time to look for when it was first mentioned can someone please help me.

the other names should be more interesting then your own. Remember, you are supposed to look for scum

I think myko's scummiest moment that is difficult to attribute to poor play has been his attack on Tenchi that in my view unfairly characterized his attacks on Batt.

and on his attacks on phily, twice. Sorry for that.

Now I agree that your doublevote was obviously a way to track your thinking as you reread, but the outcome is what I find suspicious as well. If you would have voted Tenchi, and then revoted KMD for a good reason, then it would have been much different.

the choice between voting on the big bandwagon with not a great case. (because tenchi isn't close to confirmed scum, there were towntells) or voting for what my feelings (slightly aided by evidence) on a person that hadn't been voted outside the RVS is not that hard. I believe in it, so doesn't that mean it is a good vote?

How could I be any clearer as to why hes been acting scummy at this point? Why dont you post your opinion rather than piggybacking? It seems like you're fishing for a good point to use.

a. get a glass of water and calm down
b. you are suprisingly aggressive against people that question you. There was nothing wrong with Kreviovs questions. Kreviov actually somewhat defends me, by saying your case is not that great. So do what he asks from you, step back, and stop tunneling.

[Kmd4390]

I am playing the game. I'm trying to lynch scum.

players who say they are town, mostly aren't. Why did you do this?

In response to Phily:

Lets keep him on the reserve list for suspects then? Play the game for now? With a setup like this scum slips are bound to occur.

I saw Myko's post as scummy, so I voted him. Phily then told me to play the game for now. I said that by voting scum, I'm playing the game.

And KMD what's your read on phily?

I'd probably be suspicious of him if I didn't think the scumteam was Tenchi/Myko/Kreriov.

BTW:

unvote Phily

sorry phily, I shouldn't have gotten you mad. And there is just too much chance that I'm attacking an annoyed towny (would surprise me if you played being annoyed).

And no, this is not to make you unvote, I expect you to think this is again a scum-action, but I don't care. All that can make you unvote is a glass of water

You think only townies get annoyed?

[mykonian]

I am playing the game. I'm trying to lynch scum.

players who say they are town, mostly aren't. Why did you do this?

In response to Phily:

Lets keep him on the reserve list for suspects then? Play the game for now? With a setup like this scum slips are bound to occur.

I saw Myko's post as scummy, so I voted him. Phily then told me to play the game for now. I said that by voting scum, I'm playing the game.

No

that

is defending against the accusation [/sarcasm]

And KMD what's your read on phily?

I'd probably be suspicious of him if I didn't think the scumteam was Tenchi/Myko/Kreriov.[/qoute]and what do you think of the persons that are not seen as scummy by a lot of people?

BTW:

unvote Phily

sorry phily, I shouldn't have gotten you mad. And there is just too much chance that I'm attacking an annoyed towny (would surprise me if you played being annoyed).

And no, this is not to make you unvote, I expect you to think this is again a scum-action, but I don't care. All that can make you unvote is a glass of water

You think only townies get annoyed?

no, but it makes this reaction more likely to come from town too. If I was already annoyed, and people seemed to misinterpret my arguments, I would tunnel on them until I got a glass of water. Not that it is great play, but if you are in that state of mind things happen.

something I'm sure you knew. Much happier with my unvote after this post.

[Kmd4390]

and what do you think of the persons that are not seen as scummy by a lot of people?

Who is that specifically?

no, but it makes this reaction more likely to come from town too. If I was already annoyed, and people seemed to misinterpret my arguments, I would tunnel on them until I got a glass of water. Not that it is great play, but if you are in that state of mind things happen.

something I'm sure you knew. Much happier with my unvote after this post.

I just don't see why it's a townie reaction. I've reacted that way as both alignments before.

[Battousai]

1) Why would I want to go to a smelly restroom?

why do you want to leave the starting room? Why travel to a suspicious room, while you could stay in a room where nothing happens?

I was just making stuff up, trying to have fun.

Myko's double vote post was actually like, all over the place, but I actually do agree with him on KMD's playstyle being a little less dominant than his usual town plays. The whole post was of weak cases and not very strong votes, it warrants little attention on my part.

Not that I'm an expert on KMD's playstyle or anything.

Sounds like you are trying to give credit to the KMD meta, while at the same time preparing an exit strategy in case KMD is town. So, do you agree that KMD's meta is to take control when town?

All that can make you unvote is a glass of water

You like to say this phrase a lot... I don't see how drinking a glass of water would make someone calm down.

[Looker]

Gregory's Post 472 - Male restrooms offering solace to female players? How does that compute?

[mykonian]

no, but it makes this reaction more likely to come from town too. If I was already annoyed, and people seemed to misinterpret my arguments, I would tunnel on them until I got a glass of water. Not that it is great play, but if you are in that state of mind things happen.

something I'm sure you knew. Much happier with my unvote after this post.

I just don't see why it's a townie reaction. I've reacted that way as both alignments before.

the other way around please. We have a reaction from phily, and we are supposed to find out if it comes from town or from scum. The "real" emotion makes the reaction also likely to come from town.

[mykonian]

All that can make you unvote is a glass of water

You like to say this phrase a lot... I don't see how drinking a glass of water would make someone calm down.

the point is that he should calm down. If he does that by running a marathon I dont mind. Just to keep saying he should calm down is acting like his mother, and saying that he should run a marathon is rather weird.

[PhilyEc]

All that can make you unvote is a glass of water

You like to say this phrase a lot... I don't see how drinking a glass of water would make someone calm down.

the point is that he should calm down. If he does that by running a marathon I dont mind. Just to keep saying he should calm down is acting like his mother, and saying that he should run a marathon is rather weird.

I was pissed off due to personal matters, it just happened to manifest itself within the tone of my previous posts. I do consider Myk scummy for his actions and I like how town is being cautious with this case, it tells me scum arent going to leap all over it. I notice wagons that build up more slowly are usually more town orientated/good willed. If a wagon doesnt build up at all I'm willing to move on, though IGMEOY Myk. Perhaps I'm being paranoid but I truely think you've made one terrible slip in that double vote post.

[Kreriov]

Things are a bit slow in the game right now it seems, so I am going to put a few of my thoughts down to help me remember and maybe generate some discussion.

I have have no real strong opinion about anyone. There are 4 people whom I think have made a few scummy actions.

PhilyEc - opening and entering the storage room. I think it was pure dumb luck and presupposes knowledge of the rooms content so pretty much a null tell.

Tenchi - hoping wagons with weak or no reasons. Seemed anxious to get things going and willing to push things along.

Batt - entering storage room for no real reason other than bored. Doing something to avoid boredom is ok, but should consider consequences of actions better

Kmd - making wild, unsubstantiated accusations and wildly speculating about possible connections. Might be trying to stir things up and not to be taken seriously unless and until he actually tries to substantiate wild claims.

[mykonian]

Perhaps I'm being paranoid but I truely think you've made one terrible slip in that double vote post.

the terrible is a bit weird. I have given the exact reasons, open and clear, what my reasons were for my both votes. Not so scummy.

I think you have seen me as scum. Assume I wanted to distance from Tenchi, but not vote him (already a weird plan), would I have posted clear points against him, that would warrant a vote? [/wifom]

So, the fact that I explain to you why I could vote Tenchi, but why I prefer KMD, doesn't that make that I'm not that likely scum?

[Kmd4390]

the other way around please. We have a reaction from phily, and we are supposed to find out if it comes from town or from scum. The "real" emotion makes the reaction also likely to come from town.

Still not seeing why scum can't get a "real emotion" of annoyance.

Kmd - making wild, unsubstantiated accusations and wildly speculating about possible connections. Might be trying to stir things up and not to be taken seriously unless and until he actually tries to substantiate wild claims.

What is wild about my suspicions?

[Kreriov]

You mean other than the fact you have not supported them in the least?

[MafiaMann]

I do find it somewhat scummy to get frustrated just go with it if your town

[MafiaMann]

Repeating mine:

Having just read MM in isolation, I agree that it would be nice to have on record his view of the various miniwagons, and of other not-yet-wagon'd players. I think the post restriction makes this a bit of a pain for him, which may explain why there's relatively little out there. From what I've read, it seems like he's agreed with Batt's points against Tenchi and is suspicious of Phily's room assignments form, but he does think that we should room in small groups overnight.

My avatar is the painting "Satan sowing his seeds," so I can be Satan if you need a name for me.

I'd just like you to contribute your perspective of the various conflicts (namely, Kmd/Phily/myko and Tenchi/Batt). Looker's question may be a reasonable way to approach Tenchi's wagon.

the ninja man with glasses argument meant very little to me. It was obvious man with glasses was trying to start discussion by bringing up a weak point and i dont understand the other confrontation you mentioned.

[Battousai]

"The other confrontation" has been going on for the past couple pages. From the posts you have given us, it doesn't even look like you've even read all of the thread yet.

[Kmd4390]

You mean other than the fact you have not supported them in the least?

Tenchi:
-Comes out of the gate working more on setup than finding scum. I've never liked that.
-When he makes a case (on Batt), it's the biggest load of crap I've ever see.
-The shrugging things off as WIFOM bothered me.
-Through 20 posts, has done zero scumhunting aside from latching on to Batt and making a mistake on Phily.
-Continues to look at only the setup
-catch up post is complete IIOA. Almost no opinions at all.

Myko:
-His "promise" to Looker.
-Basically lurked through the beginning of the game.
-Took 12+ pages to respond to my serious vote on him.
-OMGUS's me by letting the case develop as I respond to him.
-Votes me over Tenchi, who he actually, you know, HAS a case against.

Kreriov:
-Basically tunnels on Phily early.
-Unvotes Tenchi for crap reasons instead of pursuing what is actually a good case.
-And now, shrugs off my suspicions as "wild" and unsupported.

If I'm wrong on one of these, Phily is my next suspect.

[Iecerint]

Back for a few hours tonight. Have caught up:

Kmd: It looks like one-third of your points against Tenchi are on account of his speculation at the setup. In my opinion, other players have been just as guilty of this -- namely, I believe Ztife and I have made a few flavor/setup-based posts. Is there something different about our (and others') speculation about flavor that makes it less scummy, or is it just that Tenchi also has the bandwagoning in his corner?

I'd also encourage you to re-examine Kre's alleged tunnel on Phily. For one, the basis of his attack on Phily was that Phily deviated from the plan that you had formulated (Phily said he didn't read all of your post), so I'm guessing that it's not that you think that Kre was wrong to question Phily. Kre quickly accepted that explanation and said his action was a null-tell, but the argument wore on because Phily became defensive. (I also liked Kre's reasons for unvoting Tenchi, but that's neither here nor there.)

His "wild/unsupported" comment does seem a little off, as none of the reasons in your post are new. Maybe the comment was based on your apparently having mentally locked-in a scumteam with members XYZ on Day 1 rather than the cases on the individual players.

Also, unless you received a PM (or something) suggesting that it would be pro-town to keep players out of the bathroom, I think you should let us into the bathroom. You are the only player who has not allowed access to his room.

That said, Gregory's post was a little weird. O_o

[Gregory]

That said, Gregory's post was a little weird. O_o

please explain. my enlish isn't very good, so maybe I made some mistakes.

[Kmd4390]

Iec, I don't like that we haven't gotten much of an opinion from Tenchi on anything and that the little bit we do have is crap. I don't get that feel from you or Zt.

It was pretty easy to see that Phily had missed that part of the plan. To tunnel on that point was scummy.

I've "locked in" on the scum team because I think it is awesome that my top three suspects seem so connected. I feel like I'm actually right about the scum team. Of course if I am, I won't be here for Day 2.

[ZazieR]

1) Kmd4390
2) mykonian (1) - PhilyEc
3) Bitchibee (1) - Gregory
4) Ztife (1) - Looker
5) Looker
6) Iecerint
7) MafiaMann
8) Kreriov

9) Tenchi (2) - Battousai, Kmd4390

10) PhilyEc
11) Battousai (1) - Tenchi
12) Gregory (1) - Mafiamann

Not voting (5) - Mykonian, Bitchibee, Ztife, Iecerint Kreriov

With 12 players alive, you''ll need 7 votes to lynch.
Green indicates closest to lynch.

Room 1: Male Restroom - Kmd4390
Room 2: ???

Room 3: Library - Bitchibee

Room 4: ???
Room 5: ???

Room 6: Dark Room
Room 7: Storage Room - PhilyEc, Mykonian
Room 8: Great Hall
Room 9: Bedroom - Kreriov
Room 10: Empty Room - Iecerint

Room 11: ???
Room 12: Crime Scene Room - Looker, Battousai

Room 13: Exit Room - Ztife

Room 14: ???

Black means that that the door is open.
Red means that the door is closed.
Room 14 is in darkred, as it's its door in a different room, which got locked by Iecerint. So nobody, except for Iecerint (who can't use his barcode on it) can get to this door. So nobody can open this door until Iecrint unlocks his door.
Then there's purple. Room 7 also had an extra door in it. This one was opened by Mykonian. As Mykonian didn't leave this room when PhilyEc closed Room 7 and as Mykonian's door isn't locked, both Mykonian and PhilyEc can still move between these two rooms.

Corridor - Tenchi, Mafiamann, Gregory

NOTE: When you open a room, you''ll automatically enter it.

Attention, My body is starting to rot in the room. So as to do it a pleasure by speeding up some time to get buried sooner, a deadline will be set for the 20th of July.
Deadline will then hit at 20.00 GMT+2

[mykonian]

Myko:
-His "promise" to Looker.

explained. Every game till now I have aggressively attacked Looker, when she was towny. It is not more then normal that I change the way I play then. She has been a bit lurky in this game now, something that is a shame, because her posts were not antitown.

-Basically lurked through the beginning of the game.

v/la for the most part.

-Took 12+ pages to respond to my serious vote on him.

strawman. The above explanation was given short after it (a defence). When I reread and you are still hammering that on page 12, I attack you for it.

-OMGUS's me by letting the case develop as I respond to him.

don't get this point. I hate the word omgus, I gave my reasoning

-Votes me over Tenchi, who he actually, you know, HAS a case against.

that is much too easily followed by the wrong people, and there are things that point at Tenchi not being scum. Enough for me not to follow the case

[Gregory]

I see I'm voting someone now, so

unvote

Myk and KMD, your cases against eachother look fake. at this moment, it wouldn't surprise me if you were distancing.

[Kreriov]

@Kmd - See, was that so hard to do? After seeing that, I would agree with Icerint in that 'wild and unsupported' might be over stating things, at least against Myko and Tenchi. I might disagree with your case, but you do have reasons for suspecting them. Against me, however, you are both wrong and stretching. I did not tunnel on PhilyEc. He agreed to do something and then did not follow through. If you think me trying to figure out if it was a real mistake or a ruse to cover up a deliberate action was unwarranted, you are a fool. PhilyEc's defensiveness was just another reason to keep the heat on him until I was convinced. As for not liking me unvoting Tenchi, well, tough cookies. Its bullshit and you should know better. You want him lynched so of course you think anyone unvoting him is wrong. My reasons are and were sound. Even if I think him the most scummy player in the game, keeping a big wagon going on him while he is V/LA is just stupid. Come 20 July, I might be of a different opinion. What I do know, however, is I will not risk my vote lynching someone without being reasonably certain they are scum and I am just not at that point with Tenchi yet. So yeah, your suspicion of me is wild and unsupported.