Mini 793: Scrubs mafia- GAME OVER

[Tzeentch]

MafiaSSK: PLEASE unvote. It's very possible that we're in LyLo, and if we are then holding that vote is seriously risky while we have people who've barely spoken who could be waiting for an opportunity.

[MafiaSSK]

MafiaSSK: PLEASE unvote. It's very possible that we're in LyLo, and if we are then holding that vote is seriously risky while we have people who've barely spoken who could be waiting for an opportunity.

Fine.

unvote

[Snow White]

Hi guys! Just wanted to let ye all know im reading through the thread and will be giving my thoughts over everything that has happened as i go along, which i will then be posting for you, hopefully to ponder over too.

I hope you'll have some patience with me as i may recover past events that may have been forgotten but it will only be because i feel that it may be of some relevance or importance. So please bear with me while get to grips with the game to date. I will do my best to answer any questions put to me about BrianMcQueso's past actions and any questions on my own analysis after i put up my analysis post.

Other than that id like to thank Dr. Perry Cox for letting me play as BrianMcQueso's replacement and can only say that i hope BrianMcQueso is okay and that i can do some justice as his replacement.

Snow White.

[Snow White]

Fishy

-Page 1 post 18: Fishy votes Gorrad for voting for Furry for a third vote on Brandi in the RVS. Why? Personally i believe that in page 1 no one should have more than 2 votes and think that Gorrad was more than right to point the finger at Furry who applied the third vote.

-However Fishy's questioning of hp[leaves]/mafiaSSK makes me feel he is innocent. I agree with him that this slip up seems almost too likely to be false. This independant like streak in fishy makes me wanna say, he's innocent. What i want to know is why did hp reveal 4names and why were they the ones he picked?

-And i notice here Brian says that we should lynch Fishy because he's being stupid for believing there are 4mafia but i believe in a game of Mafia anything is possible it depends on the mod and how deviant he is, and it was foolish on Brians behalf to dismiss this and vote fishy for having his suspicions. Simply, i dont know what Brian was thinking.

-Inhisname seemed to believe fishy's innocence as well. Page 6 Post 166.

hp [leaves] / MafiaSSK

-SSK. im sorry for having to ask you this but can you tell me whay you thought was hp's reasoning for naming out how many mafia there was, and why he thought Slicey, brandi, veerus and tzeentch as Mafia when page1 still was not over?

(If you have a role, please do not name it! The last thing i want is role fishing in an already disadvantaged game to town!!)

What i dont like even more is that both Slicey and Brandi who have since been killed were proved innocent. For this reason im worried about hp and as a consequence your alignment as i find it pretty damning hp came out with a number of Mafia and sited 4 people, 2 of which have been

proved

innocents. I think that if the game set up says there can be a maximum of four scum i would not have dismissed it easily. Anything is possible and I dont think hp [leaves] had the intention of making such a bold statement without knowledge of everyones alignment (or at least some peoples alignment)and the only way he would have that knowledge is if he has a special role or is mafia. Im not sure if hp sited four innocents or was just taking his chances, but im liable to suspect hp and as a consequence you.

Page 4 Post 75. Then if you could further explain the reason for me as to why when inhisnameshallibe seemed to be getting into bother because of his bandwagoning of fishy did hp [leaves] seem to jump on inhisnameshallibe. I understand totally if you cannot explain hp's motives but in retrospect hp has me worried.

After this hp then began to lurk

Gorrad and veerus

Page 3 post 56. I dont like the way you both garnered for a bandwagon for Fishy at the point of the great scumtell everyone seemed to jump ship which makes me wonder about Gorrad and veerus. Debonair (rip) agreed with me on this. Page 3 post 60. I cant decide whether your naive towns or suspects to question.

You've both been backing each other up and latching onto each other at various points in the game. I believe either your scum together or your innocents clinging to each other.

I think at one point you tried to seperate from each other. And this was suspicious to me. What are your stances on the other?

I noted at page 12 you both went from ganging fishy to brandi. Do you really just agree with each other because im still skeptical as to form a view on either one of you two as you have both been fading in and out of the debate until a few pages ago.

Suspicious.

hp [leaves] calling 4 mafia and naming them. 2 of the dead are now proved innocents. Did he know who he was calling out?

Gorrad and veerus you both agreed for the lynch of fishy. Fishy is still here but from reading i believe him to be innocent, he had no backing and defended himself extremely well, alone.

Places where i would like explanations

@fishy page 6 you and Brandi's spat. I felt Brandi's reasoning was stated simply. She wittfully said of inhisnane that he was hypocritical to bandwagon one party to pressure them into giving their opinion and then became defensive and quite agressive in my opinion in defending himself against a bandwagon on himself. Which he was entitled to do. I want to know why you felt because she pointed this out that you were inclined to berate her?

Actions i would have taken and speculation.
1.) Day one i will admit i would have voted for inhisnameshallibe. His attempt at a bandwagon on fishy and apparent arrogance would have had me convinced he was scum. As well as him twisting DDD's words Page 6 Post 127.

__________At this point ive found that Brandi made quick summaries for the pages covered (Page 7 Post 173) which give a better over view than what i have written. I dont expect any of you to take my word so check it out from a VERIFED innocent__________________Mind you by the end of the post considering that inhisname was innocent, Brandi's opinion should be taken with a pinch of salt and not as the gospel.

Moving on

God. I really had no idea what i signed up for here. Anyway. Page 8 Dr. Perry Cox institutes his deadline.

WHAT!!?!?!?! INHISNAME ROLECLAIMED!?!?!? Thats insane. Argh!! Grrr... at Brandi, Tzee and hp. What we're ye thinking!? You couldnt have waited for a consensus? Well making the best of this. Brandi was an innocent and inhisname, well, as i stated already i probably would have voted for him too, before that roleclaim!! It seemed like no one would believe inhisname as roleblocker is more commonly a mafian role.

Tzee is clearly an idiot. And i havent seen much posting from you to assume otherwise, dont bandhop unless you are sticking to your bloody convictions cause no lynch is better especially when there is a role claim!!

And at this stage in time i would have LOVED to hear hp's response to

if I were a bad guy.

Can someone vote already?

Tzee you misled eejit. A no lynch is by FAR better than a lynched pro town role. Grrr... reluctantly im giving you the benefit of the doubt as Brandi and hp done nothing to stop you even though they were online at the time. Brandi presumably because of her own innocence, and obviously i cant ask hp nor expect MafiaSSK to be able to respond to that. I feel Brandi was right Page 11 post 254. With inhisname appearing more anti town than pro but all i can say is NO LYNCH OVER POTENTIAL ROLECLAIM IS ALWAYS WORTH THE WAIT. Thats what ive always believed and this is what should have been stuck by in inhisnames case. O.k. well its over now and things have to move on. Im thinking that there is a mafia power role now and am worried as to what it may be. Inhisname was meant to roleblock someone. There was no reason for him to be a roleblocker with no reason.

In future, however we should no lynch over potential lynchs with role claims because it is riddiculous to just jump on board with the lynch and put the town in further danger, both Brandi and inhisname should have been spared and as soon as he roleclaimed people should have been pulling there votes, even to tide things over for the day and the doc protect him. But anyway! Its a lesson for another day i've spent too much time on this and still have many pages to go. P.s. if you've made it down this far congrats. My head hurts from reading this, god only knows what it must be like for you.

At this part i think Brandi seriously starts to lose the plot by voting Furry.

@Gorrad Day2 Page 12 post 257 why did you vote fishy? A new tell? What were you hoping for if you can remember? In the next 2 posts you change your vote to Brandi simply saying "gotcha" can you tell me why after her BIG post?

@Fishy. I believed Brandi's BIG post was quite solid too. Of course it helps that im reading it and taking it and judging it, its a whole different matter playing in the moment but i cant blame Gorrad for being bound over at her text analysis and overall she was convinced of her own convictions and was good at getting this across. I read your wall response too and am pretty impressed you stuck up for your opinions. All im saying here is that i understand Gorrad's thinking because i was fully on Brandi's side too.

Im growing to dislike hp's threats more and more

If I think someone is town though, I am going to defend them to the end. Admittedly I thought slicey would flip scum which is another reason I prefered no lynch, but I would rather have a no lynch then a lynch on

my strongest town read

.

Where did you state this? You're getting scummier and scummier if you fail to respond.

@MafiaSSK i dont expect you to be able to fully respond but can you give me an idea of what he may have been thinking while making these threats to both Tzee and Furry?

Im now at the place where Gorrad and Brandi are exchanging words.

@Gorrad, i would hope the doctor, i assume there's a competant one left, wouldnt be so foolish as to reveal themselves especially with a knockout of 3 towns after night1. Im definately with Brandi when i say that opinions on deaths are essential for establishing ties and perhaps this is something to mull over. Slicey and DDD.

Page 11. Furry retaliates against hp's threats. This to me firmly established his innocence.

Page 12. Im still agreeing with brandi in the face of tag team Gorrad and veerus. However Brandi becomes over defensive. Im glad Fishy sticks up for her while im annoyed that Brian persecutes her for her opinion.

Furry and Tzee have an exchange on page 12 post 290.
Furry relates Tzee's posts but states he is off his scumdar
Furry states his main suspects are brandi, hp and brian.
Furry suspects roles being linked to names. At least this is what i understood by him.
Which on reflection makes sense as he was Doug the hapless doctor/vigillante.
And this to me makes sense because i certainly believe names have a certain relevance to the roles given.

I agree with Gorrad saying that Brandi had a lot of gall to assume she would be next in line for a lynching but could that have been WIFOM on behalf of the Mafia? Because if it was, it worked.

At this point i would have liked to hear more from:
-myself or Brian. - town
-veersus - ?
-Maturian24/Lindisfarne/Fritzler ?
-hp. - Mafia?

Undeniably it is the following people leading the conversations:
-Brandi - dead
-Gorrad - ?
-Furry - dead
-Tzee - town
-Fishy - town?

Again, another deadline is instated.

Annoyed Brandi refused to roleclaim or even state her innocence to Gorrad.
It is only after she is pressed by Tzee that she then comes out as Ted Buckland and its fairly acceptable that she's a no roler and im happy at her co-operation.
Im surprised Gorrad picked up on Tzee's vote as a serious threat when Tzee clarified however i can understand his doing so.

Although there is a lynch out on me at this point. Fair enough. I will address any questions for Brian and answer them to the best of my knowledge.

Although my actions would have been the total reverse of his i will try to make amends as to what he had been thinking. But personally i assume Brandi got it right in calling him a "lazy townie" but not of choice. In remembering that he'd just lost his job and has had to be replaced by me for this game.

I dont think many should even raise the question of why he didnt post because with people losing their jobs in the global recession i think its pretty self explanitory that he had bigger things on his mind.

Dammit Tzee... Ok... well yes, i see why you've now outted us. Otherwise Brian would have been killed. This to date has been one of your only smart moves.

Yes folks, Tzee and Brian were Masons together.
Now Brian has left, im Tzee's mason.
Tzee is JD and i am Turk.
We are masons together.
If you will notice i have failed to actually question his innocence unlike the rest of you because i have been informed of Brian and Tzee's roles. Although INCREDIBLY pissed at some of his actions, im relatively relieved at this one. Even though i do not like the general disclosure of roles this one was necessary for him to save the town an extra loss.

No one else will claim this because we are telling the truth. I am Turk and he is JD. We are innocents.

When relating to Furry's claim that roles have a certain relevance to names i believed he was right. Because from my role, JD and Turk being ultra close, i know Tzee/JD to be my mason and therefore town. If i had been Brian from the beginning i would have tried to leave a subtle trail for back up but Brian to my knowledge did not.

If anyone has any questions for me i will gladly answer them. Brian, Mason, FoS's related.

The people i am willing to vote for are in order
-hp[leaves]/MafiaSSK
-Gorrad/veerus (i cant seperate these two.)
-fishy
-Tzeetch
-Snow White.

Btw. i dont think Maturin24/Lindisfarne/Fritzler i have no idea where you fit in atm. I cant recall posts that your predecessors may have made so i hope you dont mind me reserving my judgement on you for the time being. But i find it highly likely you are a innocent vamilla townie otherwise i dont know why Maturin24 and lindisfarne left. This is just a theory. I dont want to know if im right or not!! Im just trying to make a point i think that you have a higher likelihood of innocence.

Reading the last 2 pages. BEST READ BY FAR!! Nothing to disect!! i see that Fritzler and MafiaSSK have only like myself just joined. At this stage i have now lost the will to continue posting until wayyy later. lol. its like 3.50am so this is all i have to say until tomorrow.

Hoping to hear some feedback on this,
Snow White.

[Fishythefish]

[-SSK. im sorry for having to ask you this but can you tell me whay you thought was hp's reasoning for naming out how many mafia there was, and why he thought Slicey, brandi, veerus and tzeentch as Mafia when page1 still was not over?

Note that there are not, in fact, 4 scum in the game. I see no reason hp's naming of scum shouldn't be townie- it's just another way to cast random accusations in the RVS.

@fishy page 6 you and Brandi's spat. I felt Brandi's reasoning was stated simply. She wittfully said of inhisnane that he was hypocritical to bandwagon one party to pressure them into giving their opinion and then became defensive and quite agressive in my opinion in defending himself against a bandwagon on himself. Which he was entitled to do. I want to know why you felt because she pointed this out that you were inclined to berate her?

I didn't feel inHim's actions were hypocritical- bandwagonning other players doesn't extend to supporting bandwagons on yourself. Brandi's phrasing appeared to me to make this connection, which I thought was unfair.

On a fairly irrelevant note, I disagree with you about no lynches. I think they hurt the town tremendously, and you should support almost any lynch above one. There is no way we can no lynch now, because if there are 3 scum that is a loss.

I'm inclined to believe the "masons" for today at least. If they are both still alive tomorrow, I'll think about it, but I'm certainly not voting for them today.

The people i am willing to vote for are in order
-hp[leaves]/MafiaSSK
-Gorrad/veerus (i cant seperate these two.)
-fishy
-Tzeetch
-Snow White.

Fritzler is not on this list.

I'm very much up for a veerus lynch, and suspect Gorrad is also scum. hp I struggle to get a read on. Fritzler etc. I have no read on for obvious reasons.

[Snow White]

@Fishythefish.

I wrote up my post as i went through the thread so when i said that, i meant that at the time i would not have dismissed the fact that there was 4mafia.

But putting aside this, i did not like the fact that hp had previously told players that if they will not vote for a certain person then he will attempt a lynch on the the next day. Its like saying "hey! i dont care if your an innocent, if you dont do what i say your not worth having around." i find threats of the nature, scummy.

@MafiaSSK can you please tell me what you think of the actions hp took when you are up to date? I would like to hear something about his actions until i make up my mind about you.

Well i for one see Brandi's view but i think we should both just agree to disagree with that.

But i do agree with you now that it is far too late to even consider a no lynch. It appears we dont know how many mafia there is so we cannot afford to guess as to how many days there are left. So you are right, but if someone is forced into role claiming i do think it is worth it to give the person the benefit of the doubt, even if we wait a few hours to try to come to a general consensus over whether the person is telling the truth or not. Like the inhisname case. We have must avoid voting off an innocent at all costs. Now more than ever.

Your reasoning is only fair and i accept totally that you would not immediately place trust in me but I hope to eventually earn that trust, if even the only way is through my death. Which i acknowledge is a high possiblity tonight.

I mentioned Fritzler under my suspect list and said that i felt i could not give an opinion on him as he had only just joined.

Im inclined to believe your innocence as many of those dead believed in you, Brandi, Furry, inhisname. As to who else i believe in, Tzee and maybe fritzler. Again i dont see how 2 people would have given up on a game with a role so i think fritz is a town. By process of elimination this leaves hp/MafiaSSK, Gorrad and veerus.

Fishy you have acted independently and if you too feel that veerus has a good chance of being Mafia and think we should lynch i am happy to support you as i feel veerus and Gorrad have a possiblity of both being mafia, it has appeared thoughtout the thread and after a feeble attempt to distance one another they fell into old habits and started backing the other again.

Fishy if you believe we should lynch veerus tonight, i am willing to put that trust in you.

Lastly, people, please vote according to your own conscience. If this goes belly up, either prepare for some questions or the end credits.

Vote veerus

[Fishythefish]

I see no further reason for delay.

vote: veerus

[Fishythefish]

@mod: could we get a prod on Gorrad please?

[Gorrad]

I'm here, no prod needed. Just rather swamped.

[Fishythefish]

That's ok... we only need two words. They are "vote" and "veerus". Whenever you're ready

[Snow White]

Gorrad, please place your vote.

[Gorrad]

Vote: Fishythefish

Why do you want to rush me in very likely LYLO?

[Fishythefish]

I didn't intend to rush you, and I don't think my post implies that. The phrase "whenever you're ready" sort of shows this. My post was intended to get you to review veerus. I find it distinctly odd that of the two posts immediately above yours, you think it is mine that wants to rush you.

[Gorrad]

It's the "That's ok... we only need two words. They are "vote" and "veerus"." part. It implies you don't wish any analysis, etc. with them.

[Fishythefish]

Not really. It's saying that I'm happy for any amount of analysis, but I'd like you to agree with me in the end. There was, perhaps, an element of wanting the game to get a move on- it's rather dragging it's feet at the moment- but only in a lighthearted way. I certainly never thought you would reply to me by voting for veerus, and I struggle to believe you find that likely. It's also extraordinary that you think this action alone is voteworthy.

[veerus]

So let's see:

1) you want me lynched despite the fact that you have really failed to explain your reasons for it.
2) you are trying to hurry a lynch in a possible lylo situation despite failing to provide sufficient reasoning.

The conclusion here is rather obvious.

vote: fishythefish

[Fishythefish]

1) you want me lynched despite the fact that you have really failed to explain your reasons for it.

I have explained my reasoning repeatedly (and you haven't responded to it). One more time- you were the scummiest player on what I consider a terrible bandwagon on Brandi.

Gorrad- please unvote. If your vote is wrong (which it is) it is handing the game to the scum. It's based on a stupidly small amount of evidence for a game this long- a single post which clearly does not have the motive you ascribe to it.

The following is from my pov:
Assumptions: the masons are real, there are three scum.
1. Therefore, three of Gorrad, veerus, MafiaSSK, Fritzler are scum
2. Therefore, at least one of Gorrad, veerus are scum
3. Therefore, veerus is scum. With two votes on townie-veerus, Gorrad votes for another player as scum? I don't think so.

The same logic extends well for MafiaSSK and Friztler. If veerus were town, what is scum-Gorrad playing at (regardless of my alignment)? Right now, if the masons are real veerus is practically certainly scum.

[Dr. Perry Cox]

Votecount

2 veerus

(Snow White, Fishythefish)

2 Fishythefish

(Gorrad, veerus)

Not voting: Fritzler, Tzeentch, MafiaSSK

[Snow White]

Please Gorrad you must realise how absurd your voting of Fishy is. He has done

nothing

to qualify your vote on him. Please remove it, if you are indeed innocent.

You have also failed to respond to my long post even though i had mentioned you several times. I would like your opinion on the points i raised.

Veerus is the more scummier candidate, you must realise this if you are innocent. Veerus has followed your every move, complimented your every thought process, voted as you voted. You even said a few pages back you were going to re read veerus yourself!! Why are you reluctant to vote him off now? Why are you shielding him? I know this may be lynch or lose but i feel our best scum lead here is veerus.

Not Fishy, who even previously dead players, considered innocent when they wrote of him. With that much faith in one player being pro town it is foolish to vote him out. We dont know how many mafia there is and who might jump.

Dont let fishy's small misdemeanor in manners(no offense fishy) contribute to a wrong lynch. Your ego is clouding your mind. Veerus is far scummier than Fishy has ever been.

Gorrad, please, retract your vote.

[MafiaSSK]

Can I now vote Veerus?

[Gorrad]

...I'm loathe to say it, but Snow White is right.

Unvote: Vote: Veerus

.

Let's pray you're right.

[MafiaSSK]

...I'm loathe to say it, but Snow White is right.

Unvote: Vote: Veerus

.

Let's pray you're right.

This post doesn't seem right...

[Gorrad]

...: D and you just made me sure my vote is right.

You could hammer. Assuming that the two masons are town, I'm town, and you're town for not hammering, that makes scum Fishy, Fritz, and Veerus.

...But that makes no sense. Then why would fishy be voting Veerus?

Unvote

I need to think on that...

[Gorrad]

...OH! Mafia is Veerus, Fritz, SSK. That makes more sense.

Vote: Veerus

[Fritzler]

...OH! Mafia is Veerus, Fritz, SSK. That makes more sense.

Vote: Veerus

Umm...no? There is also a third killer we need to think about?