Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[camn]

oops.. Sorry.. FTR, in Medieval...KORE was the best replacement ever.. XLY was my new favorite.

(Though right now I have a girl-crush on OJANEN.)

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Mastin (3): Zachrulez, GIEFF, Benmage
jammer (2): Kairyuu, SensFan
Battle Mage (2): Mastin, VP Baltar
GIEFF (2): jammer, camn
broomhead (1): alexhans
Cephrir (1): Debonair Danny DiPietro
alexhans (1): Battle Mage


Not Voting: Cephrir, broomhead, SpyreX

8 to lynch

[GIEFF]

I skimmed all of those games, which I picked randomly. I do not think my "case" (I wouldn't even call it that) is strong, and I am not shoving it down your throat. You asked me to look into your meta, so I did. Why are you reacting so strongly?

[Kairyuu]

I actually managed to forget about this game. My apologies. Will try to post tomorrow before work.

[Battle Mage]

At the very least, we want an Alex claim here.

What do you think the results of this forced claim would be?

At this point, i wouldnt put anything past him.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If you're a cop, you should claim now, and save us some time.

First, this is a mountainous set up. There are only goons and vanilla. Second, if we did have powerroles, this is a horrible idea and is blatantly you rolefishing.

Unvote, Vote: Battle Mage

*facepalm*

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

[VP Baltar]

If that is your idea of a trap BM, then it's pretty lame. I want to reread this interaction between you two sometime today and get a little better feel for what each of you are arguing.

[Battle Mage]

If that is your idea of a trap BM, then it's pretty lame. I want to reread this interaction between you two sometime today and get a little better feel for what each of you are arguing.

Lame? maybe. Scummy? Wtf.

Please explain your vote on me.

BM

[camn]

I do not think my "case" (I wouldn't even call it that) is strong, and I am not shoving it down your throat.

Not only is it not strong, it is totally incorrect! It isn't factual in any way. and your meta-investigation failed!

Admit it!

Say, "camn is wonderful!! A game without her is a step toward an empty abyss."

[GIEFF]

Masking your over-reaction with a joke, I see. You even went so far as to edit out the part of my quote that mentioned your over-reaction.

skimmed all of those games, which I picked randomly. I do not think my "case" (I wouldn't even call it that) is strong, and I am not shoving it down your throat. You asked me to look into your meta, so I did. Why are you reacting so strongly?

If you think I am trying to twist the past to fabricate a case on you, why the joke? In your games as town, you were abrasive (for lack of a better word) towards those you thought were scum.

Not only is it not strong, it is totally incorrect! It isn't factual in any way. and your meta-investigation failed!

It didn't fail at all - I learned a lot reading your games.

[jammer]

Because I didnt want to lose my broomhead vote... I want the guy to stop lurking or to appear and react. I can't have 2 votes so I stated my opinions in a clear way and I Fosed him. It's good enough for me. He will have to answer. Can anyone doubt that I find him scummy atm?

Voting off lurkers is more important then voting scummy players? Where is your priority?

I skimmed all of those games, which I picked randomly. I do not think my "case" (I wouldn't even call it that) is strong, and I am not shoving it down your throat. You asked me to look into your meta, so I did. Why are you reacting so strongly?

Then why list them after this quote? Seems you where building a case with that quote in front.

Check my meta if you want to build a case on those grounds.

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

Do you think the "If you're cop, claim now" trick has a high rate of succes?

[GIEFF]

I skimmed all of those games, which I picked randomly. I do not think my "case" (I wouldn't even call it that) is strong, and I am not shoving it down your throat. You asked me to look into your meta, so I did. Why are you reacting so strongly?

Then why list them after this quote? Seems you where building a case with that quote in front.

Check my meta if you want to build a case on those grounds.

It's not a "case" as I'm not trying to show that she is scum and urging people to get on her wagon. One observation of scummy behavior does not a case make.

[Benmage]

I'm back, skimmed it, but need to read from basically the top of page 5, gimmie a day or so to catchup.

Oh and I'm totally the cop in this game of vanillas only.

[Zachrulez]

If you're a cop, you should claim now, and save us some time.

First, this is a mountainous set up. There are only goons and vanilla. Second, if we did have powerroles, this is a horrible idea and is blatantly you rolefishing.

Unvote, Vote: Battle Mage

*facepalm*

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

This is a bunch of crap. I'm pretty certain Alexhans knows this game is Mountainous.

[VP Baltar]

Lame? maybe. Scummy? Wtf.

Please explain your vote on me.

Well, as I explained before, it looks like you forgot the setup and were rolefishing. Now, perhaps you were attempting to go down this trap road you are explaining, in which case you could be town and were just making a lame play.

Alex invited serveral players to this game (myself included), so I would assume he knows the setup plenty well. Perhaps you were the one who forgot the setup. Perhaps not.

Does my vote bother you?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD: Fair enough, it's contradictory. But does that really matter?

Yes, I’m inherently suspicious of anyone who either fails to take a stance or tries to make multiple stances because both of those are the easiest ways to make sure you’re never wrong or always partially right thus just slipping into the background.

also, in addition to Mastin's following post I would tell you to look at Sensfan's death on n0 in Mafia 91. Not random.

Mastin has a very good point when he says that n0 kills are very probably not random.

Very good point? It isnt brain surgery, pal. What scumgroup kills randomly?

The flaw you have is, that any motive you give to a scumkill is automatically WIFOM. Thus, no conclusion you can draw from the kills can make a strong case.

Agreed. Ironically, Alex mentions M91 as solid reason for NK speculation, noting that Sens’ N0 death wasn’t random. Except the other scum group, which I was a part of, removed everyone we played with from the player list and then randomly killed from that list N0 as to throw off townies trying to do this exact kind of speculation. BM’s last two sentences perfectly sum up my opinion on this matter.

Out of sheer interest, rather than any game relevance, have you got a link to this process taking place? Like in a quicktopic or whatever?

BM

http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/tMHQY9RX8RT

Though I wasn't as clear in my post(s) in retrospect as I remembered, but I assume people would only remove players they knew from the list and then from that list I randomly selected one. As it stands, I've never played with Zilla and I sent in the kill on him. So I find the Alex/Mastin theories to be more than a little short-sighted.

[Yaw]

broomhead has requested replacement. I'll get on that tomorrow. Shouldn't take too long to fill the spot.

[Battle Mage]

Lame? maybe. Scummy? Wtf.

Please explain your vote on me.

Well, as I explained before, it looks like you forgot the setup and were rolefishing. Now, perhaps you were attempting to go down this trap road you are explaining, in which case you could be town and were just making a lame play.

Alex invited serveral players to this game (myself included), so I would assume he knows the setup plenty well. Perhaps you were the one who forgot the setup. Perhaps not.

Does my vote bother you?

Haha, ofc your vote bothers me. I never enjoy people wanting to lynch me.

Let's talk scenarios here. Say this game wasn't mountainous, and i was asking for a roleclaim. How is that scummy play? In fact, the optimal play would be to subtly hint at him being a cop, and see if he breadcrumbs back. I've done that before, quite recently, in a game that is still ongoing, but might be finished soon.

If you have any familiarity with my play, you'd know that outright asking for a roleclaim would merely be a BM-tell. Maybe a mild town-tell? I'm not sure.

Did Alex recruit Mastin? Because that might explain his odd loyalty to him. I'm surprised you haven't brought this up.

Final comment on your vote:

Saying "are you a cop?" is not rolefishing. It's roleASKING.

I still think Alex might have slipped were it not for your comment.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If you're a cop, you should claim now, and save us some time.

First, this is a mountainous set up. There are only goons and vanilla. Second, if we did have powerroles, this is a horrible idea and is blatantly you rolefishing.

Unvote, Vote: Battle Mage

*facepalm*

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

This is a bunch of crap. I'm pretty certain Alexhans knows this game is Mountainous.

Did he recruit you too? lmao

Vote stands btw. I love the way suddenly people jump up to defend Alex when the charge is something other than scummy play.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

Do you think the "If you're cop, claim now" trick has a high rate of succes?

Does the rate of success really matter? Fact is, it could potentially work. So it's worth a shot. No win, no fee.

BM

[jammer]

Let's talk scenarios here. Say this game wasn't mountainous, and i was asking for a roleclaim. How is that scummy play? In fact, the optimal play would be to subtly hint at him being a cop, and see if he breadcrumbs back. I've done that before, quite recently, in a game that is still ongoing, but might be finished soon.

It is scummy becouse mafia likes to know PR's for obvious reasons.

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

Do you think the "If you're cop, claim now" trick has a high rate of succes?

Does the rate of success really matter? Fact is, it could potentially work. So it's worth a shot. No win, no fee.

BM

It would give an insight in how likely it is for you to role'ask' as town or just is a excuse of mafia.

[SensFan]

The pressure on BM is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

It had a >0% chance of helping the Town, by outing a Scum
It had a 0% chance of hurting the Town

How the fuck can you call that scummy?

[Battle Mage]

Let's talk scenarios here. Say this game wasn't mountainous, and i was asking for a roleclaim. How is that scummy play? In fact, the optimal play would be to subtly hint at him being a cop, and see if he breadcrumbs back. I've done that before, quite recently, in a game that is still ongoing, but might be finished soon.

It is scummy becouse mafia likes to know PR's for obvious reasons.

There is no incentive for Mafia to blatantly out a Cop on Day 1, with the strong likelihood of Doc-protection. If anything, Scum want the Cop to remain unclaimed. I honestly dont think you've thought this through at all. Take the blindfold off.

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

Do you think the "If you're cop, claim now" trick has a high rate of succes?

Does the rate of success really matter? Fact is, it could potentially work. So it's worth a shot. No win, no fee.

BM

It would give an insight in how likely it is for you to role'ask' as town or just is a excuse of mafia.

This discussion is irrelevant, because regardless of whether i knew the setup was all vanilla or not, me asking for a Cop claim is not a scumtell. xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

The pressure on BM is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

It had a >0% chance of helping the Town, by outing a Scum
It had a 0% chance of hurting the Town

How the fuck can you call that scummy?

QFAT.

Thanks bro.

BM

[alexhans]

Out of sheer interest, rather than any game relevance, have you got a link to this process taking place? Like in a quicktopic or whatever?

It's mafia 91. You COULD'VE searched for it... but here are the links...
Mafia 91
Sicilian
Japanese

Mastin's behaviour was vaguely scummy, but given how much he posts, and his general meta, not really lynch-worthy. Alex's reaction to him was far scummier, and doesnt make sense with them as scumbuddies. Taking the assumption Alex is scum (which is the assumption i am making if i want him lynched), Mastin is almost certainly town. Of course, if Alex turns out to be town, this condition is no longer met, and Mastin can be looked at again.

Ok... I sized this for emphasis... THIS is one hell of a scummy statement. COnnecting the lynches of 2 players so if one them flips town the other must be looked at... Hell of a way to get 2 town players lynched with crap logic (no, I don't know if mastin is town or not but it's my current feeling).

haha, you make it sound so scary. I'm capable of thinking 2 moves ahead, if thats what you're actually asking. Wink
At the very least, we want an Alex claim here.

1) I don't care if you think the best of you and above every player here... but you can't appeal to experience to pull of scummy actions.
2) DONT underestimate me like that. First, it's stupid. Then, it's scummy. That's called fake scumhunting. Doing something you know, would not work if you were town but you do it all the same to pretend.

Again, you consistently assume he is town. If you're a cop, you should claim now, and save us some time.

Dude... I ADVERTISED this game to other players... I know what kind of setup it is... I can not imagine that you would think otherwise. Therefore your "scumhunting" is not genuine.

Lol, it wouldnt be funny if i didnt actually want you dead. And if im not willing to put my money where my mouth is, i wont be a great asset to the town now, will i?

it's funny how you feel the need to respond a lot of useless stuff and always try to paint you in a "townie" fashion.

Hasdgfas is fine for a short form. Alot of the players here i dont even know. You asking everyone to abbreviate their names,

is immensely unhelpful

Bolded for emphasis. NOTE HOW YOU ARE ATTACKING ME FOR JUST ABOUT ANYTHING. IT'S A REPETETION ATTACK FROM EVERY SIDE EVEN TO START IMPRINTING IN PEOPLE'S MIND THAT IF YOU HAVE SO MANY THINGS (bull) AGAINST ME THEN THERE MUST BE SOMETHING...
Cool tactic. But it's not gonna work.

Also, argumenting isnt a word. Bet you wish i'd ignored that.

We all make mistakes. "Argumentar" is a word in spanish. My bad.

Yep, i've never made any attempt to deny that it seems scummier from my perspective, because i know that the conclusion of such a policy will NOT result in a scum lynch. So of course there is an element of OMGUS. But anyone can see that it is logically flawed, and you yourself must realise that with people like you tailing Mastin like a lost little puppy dog, the rest of us are BOUND to be edgy about craplogic actually leading somewhere.

All I'm reading from this is

preventive

voting. You don't actually think we are scummy. You just want to avoid getting lynched.

I'm usually told that setup-speculation is bad, but here we are, wondering how many scum there is and no one has said anything there was anything wrong about it.

Because it's totally and utterly, IRRELEVANT. Commenting on the number of scum we might have on Day 1, is the most pointless exercise i can imagine. Maybe look at it lately, and by all means, err on the side of caution,

but your attempts to bully everyone into believing there are 4 scum, when there is no way in hell you could know that as town, have not gone unnoticed by me

. What annoys me is,

i cant even see a logical reason to make that argument as scum, unless you are just deliberately out to mislead at every turn

, or you wanna get your chips in quick, so you can later cry "I told ya so!"

HAH!

OK PEOPLE! check this out ^^

I wonder why people complain about NK speculation and then say that no one is complaining about setup speculation (Most of us chipped in about the number of scum) and BM decides to think, now, not before, that I'm scummey for it even though from his own point of view is ilogical so he quickly makes up a theory where I'm a SUPER WIFOMER or a unnecesary gloater.

I dunno how much clearer i can be. You're wrong. Please stop wasting everybody's time.

... you won't flame me up. So don't try. Anyway, I would advise you to stop with the agressive tone.

What is the obsession with the RVS about? It's like you portray it as something bad, when in reality, it serves us just fine. Granted, this conversation has induced discussion, but if it wasnt for Mastin, you wouldnt be in this position right now. Maybe you should think again as to whether his plan was quite so good.

I've never played a game without RVS. RVS can be a very easy path for experienced players (and I know there's a lot of them here) that can choose to excuse any scummy action because it was RVS... (ehem, Vote on Mastin, ehem)

IIRC there's some important experienced players who say that there's no need for RVS so it's not Mastin's innovative plan. It's something that has been done.

I don't care in wich position you're trying to imply I am. I'm in no bad position. You're just trying to portrait it as if I were.

Personally speaking, i only left the RVS with my vote for you. I expect the vast majority are still there, because you dont have anywhere near enough votes.

see? You excuse your mastin vote as RVS... You KEEP pushin my case in the worst possible way. Without

#71 BM's vote on mastin
Mastin NEVER responded... YET, BM unvoted and voted me... scumhunting?

Pure, unadulterated OMGUS

NO man... If this is OMGUS Then why isn't omgus what you did to mastin? Come on... I'm just questioning your motives. I didn't jump at you for voting me. But the you keep acting in scummy ways to push a case that really doesn't exist.

Ask any other player here if they find your consistent protests about the number of scum wierd, and every single one (probably even your buddies, if they have any sense) will agree with me.

Here is where we draw a line between peculiar and scummy. My actions were not scummy. My actions were Alexhans. I explained my actions. You already made up your mind or are bullshitting so you never tried to logically think about them to realize I was telling the truth and that it was not scummy.

You're just squirming now. lol

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

Again. PROPAGANDA won't work.

What's with all the rhetorical questions??

I know SF has a strong personality. I'm just testing the waters. What's wrong with them, anyway? are you just adding fluff to an otherwise lame case?

I'm pointing out that you arent really acting in a protown manner. Rhetorical questions are a classic method of persuasion-you arent trying to find scum, you are trying to make someone look scummier than they actually are. You do it again here. You're trying to come across as an aggressive townie, but it's pretty apparent that it is just a front.

So... YOur question was just a rhetorical question to point I'm scummy? Kudos on the scumhunting then...
You're wrong on all accounts I am and WILL try to find scum and not let anyone fly silently under the radar. I'm gonna look everywhere. I'm not gonna decide on the spur of a moment but will try to analize the whole picture. I am and WILL scumhunt so you saying otherwise is a lie.

Lmfao. Confirm Vote: Alex

You cant seriously try and tell me that you believe this Mastin bullcrap is consistent with your own confession-that you might have killed someone random who you dont know? xD

It's amazing. A post full of redundant "I'm convinced, look at me" tactics.
I don't see why that quote would make you confirm my vote. It's just advertisement. I don't believe anybody's bullcrap. I can find something to be plausible, possible, probable or not and I think for myself, thank you.

Haha, dont kid yourself bro. YOU aren't going to lynch ME, full stop.

Love the confidence. I was thinking along the same lines about me. But, you know... Anyone can get lynched. Maybe not today. But you can't hide yourself behind experience. If you're scum, you're scum. No matter how many games you've played or how good your rep is.

Please have the courtesy of quoting the entire backlog of conversation. I have a life outside of the game, and making me go back and read extra every time i come on, is not very friendly.

Ok. I was trying to keep things as shorter as possible but I will do it from now on.

Ftr, i do apologise if i offended you on a personal level. I just get really annoyed when people say stuff that is clearly wrong. When i disagree with you, just back down, and we'll get on fine. *hugs*

The thing is. That either you're wrong, I'm wrong or you're scum. So I can't let you go on with stuff that is not how I think it is.

If you had meta-ed me... you would find that I usually try to coach everyone into playing in a way wich I think is the optimal way... I may be mistaken but it's what I think is good. A player can take it or leave it.

Got a link for me here?

My wiki is up to date. (only missing Mini 799 - One Flew Over A Cuckoo's Nest, wich was abandoned.)

In any case, my vote was not without reason. Mastin came right out of the gate pushing an argument that was not only completely illogical, but was also likely to lead to the lynch of AT LEAST 1, and possibly 3 or 4, townies. What do you expect me to do?

Ok. I didnt take it that seriously but I guess it's somewhat valid to vote for him. But... would you lynch him for it?

If i intended to lynch him for it, you'd think i'd still be voting for him now, no?

Then why did you vote for him?

By that token, you should be voting for VP Baltar. I seem to recall you saying that he was unreadable.

Well... it's always an option. Although no one is TOTALLY unreadable. He is just hard to read but in both games I played I had a mild scum read on him. The problem is proving your feelings.

The only way you can claim that Mastin destroyed the RVS, is if you assume that he is scum, and/or the wagon on him is legitimate. You don't seem to believe this, thus you cannot claim that we have left the RVS.

what??? I don't follow your logic that the only way in wich RVS was destroyed is if mastin is scum... Could you rephrase it in a way a 5 year old could understand?

Ok. In terms of votes, what Mastin achieved, instead of a random selection of reasonless votes, was a wagon on himself. Now, if you dont think that wagon was legit, then effectively, we are no better off than we would have been with the random stage.

If you believe Mastin has destroyed the RVS, then you are, by definition, acknowledging that the wagon on Mastin is valuable, and most probably, that he is scum.

OK... this seems like Twisted logic 101...

^^ READ THAT TWICE OR THRICE OR AS MANY TIMES AS YOU NEED TO AND TRY TO DISENTANGLE THE MESS

1) Every waggon that forms out of the RVS did not necessarily find scum.
2) Typically, there's a waggon on the active player for being so agressive. I've experienced that it's adequately pushed by scum.
3) The bolded part is contradictory BS from yourself who have tried to paint me as scum buddying up to mastin.

btw, BM, when did you stop beating your wife?

When she got a restraining order. How the f*** did you know about that?!?!?

2. You admitted above that defending someone looks scummy. Ive been nailed for it in the past, so if you're town, you have my sympathy. But, your buddying is based on nothing, and is completely illogical. You've basically decided he is town off the bat, and then used that claim to lead your suspicions.

No. my suspicions came from the way in wich the waggon form. It's reasons. The quickness of it. I hadn't found anything that indicated mastin-scum and you were all voting the active player for a STRATEGY? yes. Voting someone for an hypothesis was scummy.

If you're town, you should see what i see. Or thats how i view things anyway.

The thing is... I'm trying to decide if you're scum or not based on all the inconsistencies and scummy things you seem to try to pull to get my lynch (endless propaganda too). But I think that this whole conversation has and will be useful in the future. Now we need to keep discussing between ourselves but also encourage EVERYONE to look for stuff to discuss, either out of BM-Alexhans, or inside. But no one can stay silent.
-----------------------------------

If you're a cop, you should claim now, and save us some time.

First, this is a mountainous set up. There are only goons and vanilla. Second, if we did have powerroles, this is a horrible idea and is blatantly you rolefishing.

Unvote, Vote: Battle Mage

VP... I don't think he forgot about the setup. It was either a lame underestimation or a lame attempt to pretend he was scumhunting. Either way... laaaaaaame.
-----------------------------------

haha, you make it sound so scary. I'm capable of thinking 2 moves ahead, if thats what you're actually asking. Wink
At the very least, we want an Alex claim here.

It IS scary. The last time I saw somebody make nested assumptions like that, he was scum. It's much easier for scum to pretend to look a step ahead, because they are ALREADY SURE of the first step (i.e. sure of player 1's alignment, so they pretend to use that assumption to make "guesses" about others' alignments, whereas townies would NOT make these nested assumptions so readily, especially not so early in the game).

GIEFF has a BIG point here. I've seen this attitude in some other games too. Conditioned lynches.
-----------------------------------

UNVOTE

I follow this alex-bm battle with interest.

Camn.... I advise you to question anyone of us if you're interested instead of watching it from the side. Or question other people, or whatever... We need more input.

Also... Why aren't you lurkerwaggoning Whooo!!! as you usually do IIRC?
-----------------------------------

B) I >AM < here to make friends. Check my meta if you want to build a case on those grounds.

-----------------------------------
Me too... GO camn!
-----------------------------------

Now, my town games......
Let me point out whom I buddied with in each game.. and PLEASE explain to me why you are only noticing in my scum games?

DGB, I am going to allow you a LITTLE bit of soft-claiming... but that is because I like you.

YOu know I will lynch you, right Zwet? I like you, but that doesn't mean you need to live.

Tenchi.. I am going to do my best to run you up to a lynch.....
PS.. I like your picture.

Camn... None of this is buddying... The only one close to buddying is the first one because you allow him to softclaim (even though you think is scummy?) but the other 2 are definetly not... you're trying to LYNCH them for god's sake!!!
Ok... the rest of them... Some are, some are not... but I see your point... specially remembering 799...

I skimmed all of those games, which I picked randomly. I do not think my "case" (I wouldn't even call it that) is strong, and I am not shoving it down your throat. You asked me to look into your meta, so I did. Why are you reacting so strongly?

I endorse this question.
------------------------------------

At the very least, we want an Alex claim here.

What do you think the results of this forced claim would be?

At this point, i wouldnt put anything past him.

BM

meaning?

If you're a cop, you should claim now, and save us some time.

First, this is a mountainous set up. There are only goons and vanilla. Second, if we did have powerroles, this is a horrible idea and is blatantly you rolefishing.

Unvote, Vote: Battle Mage

*facepalm*

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

ohhhh.... riiiight.... It was A "Trap"... Now I know where you got that rep from... Your awesome traps that wouldn't work even if I was scum!!!
------------------------------------------

Masking your over-reaction with a joke, I see. You even went so far as to edit out the part of my quote that mentioned your over-reaction.

lol.
------------------------------------------

Voting off lurkers is more important then voting scummy players? Where is your priority?

Not where yours is, apparently. Look. When I voted. It was an RVS vote (I give a crap reason for my RVS votes so I can get a reaction, instead of the typical Vote A because he smells like socks) to try and see how the guy reacted. Later on... I awaited patiently for "the ghost's" return so I could question him about anything and try to get a read on him. In a mountanious game, we can not afford lurkers. Also, I don't need to vote to question a scummy player nor I need to find someone scummy to question him...

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

Do you think the "If you're cop, claim now" trick has a high rate of succes?

lol. It's hard to picture BM being so naive as town.
-------------------------------------------

Though I wasn't as clear in my post(s) in retrospect as I remembered, but I assume people would only remove players they knew from the list and then from that list I randomly selected one. As it stands, I've never played with Zilla and I sent in the kill on him. So I find the Alex/Mastin theories to be more than a little short-sighted.

But, still, many scum in that game suggested Sensfan kill because he might be dangerous. It's not a totally invalid theory.
-------------------------------------------

broomhead has requested replacement. I'll get on that tomorrow. Shouldn't take too long to fill the spot.

Good.

unvote

. Vi is coming to this game!!!
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Let's talk scenarios here. Say this game wasn't mountainous, and i was asking for a roleclaim. How is that scummy play?

With just one vote on me... it's TERRIBLY scummy. Trying to expose or a cop. Or trying to narrow down the cop pool.

If you have any familiarity with my play, you'd know that outright asking for a roleclaim would merely be a BM-tell. Maybe a mild town-tell? I'm not sure.

lol... so you try to pull scummy meta to protect yourself? XD

Did Alex recruit Mastin? Because that might explain his odd loyalty to him. I'm surprised you haven't brought this up.

My odd loyalty comes from my games with him and the fact that I believe him to be a great asset for town and a great detriment to scum. I have yet to see him as scum but I think that if he is indeed scum I might be able to find out sooner or later (before losing, I mean ).
Also, by recruiting you mean what exactly??? there's townies and scum... no cults, no recruiting masons... no nothing... What are you trying to say?

I still think Alex might have slipped were it not for your comment.

And why would you assume that?
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Vote stands btw. I love the way suddenly people jump up to defend Alex when the charge is something other than scummy play

what? explain because you're being unclear. Why do you think people are "defending" me? They're just stating what they know... I INVITED many of them to this game. IF they were, in fact, defending me... what do you think it would mean?
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The pressure on BM is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

It had a >0% chance of helping the Town, by outing a Scum
It had a 0% chance of hurting the Town

How the fuck can you call that scummy?

Is that all?
IMO, it's either a lame trap... As BM says. Or a lame way of trying to appear scumhunting.
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There is no incentive for Mafia to blatantly out a Cop on Day 1, with the strong likelihood of Doc-protection. If anything, Scum want the Cop to remain unclaimed. I honestly dont think you've thought this through at all. Take the blindfold off.

yeah... unless mafia has an RB... but it doesn't matter... I don't think you forgot about the setup so this line of discussion is not necessary.
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