Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[alexhans]

NOTE: I WILL try to make posts shorter from know on.

[camn]

@ alex..
a) I was too hungover to lurkerwagon. But I will get around to it.
b) I get emotional. Defensive is not a scumtell. Crapcases, however, ARE.
c) I think I am STILL hung over. god.

[GIEFF]

I wrote this yesterday (and saved it in my notes), but I wanted to see how alexhans responded to BM's attack before I posted it, as my attack on BM also defends alex. Now that alex has defended himself, I will post the rest of my attack on BM:


BM, you claim that the case you made in Post 113 was enough for you to be so convinced that alex is scum (and so convinced he wouldn't defend his buddy so blatantly), that you are ALSO convinced Mastin is town. I don't think this is likely. Your case in 113 does not look like enough evidence for such surety. In order, your points are (with my resopnses after):

1. Alex wanted to use player nicknames
   . This is null.
2. Alex complimented Mastin on an obvious assumption.
   Looks like buddying, mildly suspicious.
3. Any motive given to a scumkill is WIFOM.
   This also applies to Mastin, to a GREATER extent than to alex, which makes it a very poor reason to unvote the former to vote the latter.
4. Alex is desperate to push the 4 scum theory, yet town should be cautious.
   This is incorrect – it is actually MORE cautious to leave the door open to the possibility of 4 scum.
5. Alex asks rhetorical questions (you phrased this as a rhetorical question – isn’t that odd?).
   This is somewhat valid, based on your later explanations of why scum would like to ask rhetorical questions.
6. Alex agrees with Baltar that newer players would have less say in a scum kill - you think this is a convenient because alex is saying that HE wouldn't direct a scum kill.
   I don’t see this.
7. Alex tries to appear pro-town, but isn't really saying anything.
   I disagree - this is protown, if alex really believes it is pro-town to speculate on the nightkill. I don't think it is protown, but I see no reason to be so sure that alex-town would feel the same way.
8. Alex claimed that speculating about night-kills NOW reduces the WIFOM involved in doing so. BM thinks this is wrong.
   I disagree. There is still WIFOM, but I do agree with alex that there is less WIFOM than there would be later in the game, as people will try to analyze the way the dead player interacted with others, which is not possible for the first kill.
9. Alex coached Zach.
   This is not coaching, this is cautioning, which you claim is protown.
10. Alex says that players who are first to post and post a lot are pro-town - BM disagrees.
    Viewing Mastin as pro-town is not necessarily scummy.
11. Alex believes Mastin destroyed the RVS - BM disagrees (and presents a falsely binary choice).
    Viewing Mastin as pro-town is not necessarily scummy.
12. Alex "shat a brick" when Mastin got wagoned.
    Agreed - this was very fishy.
13. Alex defended Mastin in all-caps - BM says this means Alex KNOWS Mastin is town.
    I agree it is fishy, but I don't agree this means Alex KNOWS Mastin is town.
14. Alex says he likes Mastin's theory - BM says it is not a pro-town theory.
    Viewing Mastin (or his theories) as pro-town is not necessarily scummy.

For five of your fourteen points (2, 3, 10, 11, 14), you use alex's agreement/following of Mastin to prove that alex is scum, yet at the same time you claim this means that Mastin is town. This makes little sense, and I'm sure you see why - if two players are making the same claims, how can that make one of them scum and the other town? I agree that the all-caps thing was over the top, but if alex has so often said "You're right, Mastin" and "I agree, Mastin" then is the extremity of the all-caps outburst enough to really rid yourself of ALL suspicion of Mastin, assuming alex-scum? I don't think a townie would be as sure as you are, especially after having VOTED for Mastin. Also, your claim that your vote for Mastin was random is obviously false. In Post 77, you ask camn why she didn't let Mastin defend himself, which shows that in your mind, Mastin needed defending, which is NOT the case for a random vote.

As far as your other points, only 5 and 12/13 make sense to me. All you really have on alex is that he freaked out about Mastin, which I agree is scummy, but if that's really the main reason you had for wanting to "serious-wagon" him, it makes little sense to completely ignore Mastin, and assume that he is town.

So, to sum up, you claim that your case makes you SO sure that alex is scum that you are willing to make a complete 180 on Mastin, and say that he is town, with a LOT of confidence. Yet as I think I have shown here, many of the points you brought up are not scummy - they are just observations. And as I also think I have shown here, you

LIED

when you said your vote for Mastin was random, to allow yourself to perform the mental gymnastics required to force this case on alex.

Normally, I am all for early aggression, but not when it is this inconsistent, or supported by lying about the intentions behind your vote for Mastin.

--------------

Camn:

If you truly think I am scum (enough to revote me in large font), you sure are being lackadaisical in your attempt to lynch me, which was NOT your style of play from my read of your past games when you were town. It seems to me that you made your vote so large so that you LOOK angry, LOOK like you find me scummy, and LOOK like you want to lynch me. Yet actions speak louder than words, even when those words are in 18-point font. I called your joke-vote for me toothless, and this one strikes me as just as gummy. I note that once again (as you did in post 159), you ignored my answers to your questions, as well as my additional questions for you. If you truly found me so suspicious, why would you IGNORE my posts about you?

That is

not

the behavior of a pro-town player trying to lynch a player she finds scummy. That is the behavior of a scummy player trying to

look

like she wants to lynch a player she is

pretending

to find scummy.
------

My posting rate and questions are outpacing others' posting rates and their ability to answer questions. As I don't want these questions to go unanswered, I will post them again here:

• Post 50:
  Sens
  , I take it your vote for jammer is semi-random OMGUS, and has little to do with my or Kairyuu's reasons for voting him. Is that correct? If you do not want to answer, could you please just say "I refuse to answer" instead of ignoring it for the third time?
  
• Post 107:
  Mastin
  , I assume you will respond when you return from V/LA, but this should ensure you don't miss it.
  
• Post 144 (and this post):
  Battle Mage
  , please respond.
  
• Post 159 (and this post):
  camn
  , please respond.

[camn]

whats your question, exactly?
Short sentences, pls.. I am still hung over.

[camn]

PS, GIEFF..... you have already totally proven that you don't really understand how to use Meta.... so any meta arguments you might bring are pretty worthless, IMO.

[GIEFF]

If you think I am trying to twist the past to fabricate a case on you, why the joke? In your games as town, you were abrasive (for lack of a better word) towards those you thought were scum.

If you truly found me so suspicious, why would you IGNORE my posts about you?

That is

not

the behavior of a pro-town player trying to lynch a player she finds scummy. That is the behavior of a scummy player trying to

look

like she wants to lynch a player she is

pretending

to find scummy.

Although I mention your meta, that is not necessary for my point to be a valid one. If you really think I am scummy, you are not pursuing it very actively - you are just grandstanding.

PS, GIEFF..... you have already totally proven that you don't really understand how to use Meta.... so any meta arguments you might bring are pretty worthless, IMO.

And your (very late) attempt to be abrasive just shows you are trying to appease me. You tried ignoring me, but that didn't get me to stop questioning you. So now you try to fit your play to the description that I gave you of what I perceive your town-meta to be, i.e. being aggressive toward those you think (or claim to think) are scum. That won't get me to stop questioning you, either.

If I told you that town-camn would jump off a bridge, would you do it?

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Mastin (3): Zachrulez, GIEFF, Benmage
jammer (2): Kairyuu, SensFan
Battle Mage (2): Mastin, VP Baltar
GIEFF (2): jammer, camn
Cephrir (1): Debonair Danny DiPietro
alexhans (1): Battle Mage


Not Voting: Cephrir, broomhead, SpyreX, alexhans

8 to lynch

[camn]

So.. Your question is about a bridge?

[GIEFF]

Town-camn wouldn't pretend to misunderstand my question.

[camn]

You have no idea what town-camn would do.
You have proven this.

Everything you have written is insane speculation... you need to be more clear.

Are you asking where I was this weekend?

[camn]

Oh wait...
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 20#1760320

YOU KNOW where I was this weekend!!

So seriously.. you're argument that I am "not pursuing it very actively" contradicts what you KNOW about me schedule this last weekend.

Hmm.
Another crap-case.

So that is 2 crapcases in less than a week. Do you have more?

[GIEFF]

Everything I have written is speculation, but calling it insane does not make it insane, no more than calling my posts crapcases is enough to make them crappy. Yet once again, I feel that your focus is not on calling me scummy - you only call my cases crap because you want to protect yourself

I know nothing about your schedule. I knew you spent a lot of time on the 11th making 4 posts, one of which was an in-depth investigation of your own meta - you are willing to spend all that effort to defend yourself, yet hardly any effort at all to follow up on your claim that you find me scummy.

You seem to be under the illusion that you can ignore my posts because you claim to have found something wrong with them, dismiss the points I raise as "crap," and ignore the points I am sure you understand. I speculate, quite sanely, that a townie would be more open than you have been, would try to answer honestly, and would not look for a technicality to avoid a genuine response, after first trying the ignore-strategy, and then trying the appease-strategy.

[camn]

Your crap-cases are scummy.
They are crap because they are not true.
Me calling them crapcases simultaneously defends myself against them, and points out your scumminess to everyone else.

I never ignored you.
I never appeased you.
I am NOT abrasive.

If you have any sane, rational QUESTIONS, please ask them.
Your speculation is based on nothing.
You failed at building a meta-case on me.
Your "ignoring" argument is based on lies.
Your "buddying up" argument was based on lies.
your "appeasement" argument is based on lies.

When I totally refuted and destroyed your case (in 149), I asked YOU some questions.. which you have totally ignored.

Do you care to answer them now?

FURTHERMORE, your logic is totally flawed.
Above, you say:

I knew you spent a lot of time on the 11th making 4 posts, one of which was an in-depth investigation of your own meta - you are willing to spend all that effort to defend yourself, yet hardly any effort at all to follow up on your claim that you find me scummy.

149 is THE VERY POST where I voted you based on your crap-case.
Are you saying that I should have "followed up" on my accusations IN THE SAME POST that I MADE the accusations?
That is nonsense.
Your entire line of thought is nonsense.... in 158 I DID follow up! Then I went out to the bar .

Is this a 'genuine' enough response?

[Kairyuu]

Posting now.

[Kairyuu]

@GIEFF:

Kairyuu, what pro-town reason is there for listing the players you think that scum should kill?

1. Umm, first of all, the fact that a high priority player wasn't killed increases the likelyhood that some or all of the priority kills are actually the scum.

2. Everyone I listed are rather obvious choices, so a large portion of the players in this game would already have the same idea.

3. Now it's your turn. What anti-town reasons would I have for listing them when I could have just listed it in the QT or via pm (depending on what format this game uses) during the Night phase?

@all: I actually will have to disagree with all fo your final conclusions about jammer's number theory.Assuming that he was scum, he would have a nice incentive to make it look like he didn't know the number of scum so that people would be less likely to think that he was one of them. That said, the likelyhood of the teo scenerios is pretty even, so I'm calling it null, rather than the town-tell that seems to be the agreement.

@DDD:

Cephrir expects three or four scum, says we should assume four scum because of that possibility. And then concludes by stating there probably aren't four scum. While these statements are completely contradictory they certainly don't look good to me.

I disagree with this. If anything, Cephrir's idea makes sense. If we assume a higher number of scum than we actually have then we will be more cautious, thinking that we have less chances than we actually do. Then, if we're wrong, we get an extra lynch or something that we weren't expecting, as opposed to being wrong while assuming too few scum, and hitting endgame sooner than we thought.

@Zach:

Control of the game based on the nightkill seems to be Mastin's motive, and I'm happy to put a vote on him. (I'm clear! But these people are scummy because they know Has!)

I kinda agree with the sentiments on Mastin given here, but I think that NK speculation is potentially useful also, as long as we don't allow it to influence us overly much (aka. it can be used to narrow suspects somewhat, but not as anything completely definitive).

@jammer:

@Kairyuu, What do you think about the opposing of the meta N0 kill from SensFan. While he is suspected becouse of this by you and Mastin.(top-suspect)

I think Sens is thinking too much in black and white, but he's not completely wrong. Also, BM is a suspect, but his play is more important than the meta here. I find you scummier than him based on your RVS extension post.

@Battle Mage:

Whoever did the italicising and underlining thing at least actually achieved something.

Why thank you. That would be me.

@all: Mmk. My computer is being stupid, so I'm gonna restart it now and get back to posting. As of right now Battle Mage is looking pro-town to me, the Mastin wagon is weak, but not terrible, Benmage is being Benmage, GIEFF and camn are giving me neutral reads, Cephrir looks slightly town, and jammer hasn't assuaged my suspicions. I have no reads on whoever is left.

Currently on post 93

[Benmage]

Right so here is from the bottom of page 4 actually, me chronologically catching up in this game. Sorry for the delay, was very busy RL.

Vote

BM

Why?

It was a joke…I play this game for fun?...

]

Jammer, your scumminess drops because you went along so easily with an assertion from Alexhans that there are 4 scum, and it's becoming quite apparent that 3 scum is likely based on how the distribution of roles would have to be to get the closest to balancing this game.

QFT.

@Zach, I'm surprised that makes you feel save in calling me town.
Would you have voted me if I stated that there where 3 mafia?

Seriously he could still be scum saying 4 when there may even be 2. Who knows, writing him off as town for agreeing with anothers scum numbers seems scummy.

Doesn't this 2 quotes contradict themselves? In the SAME post?

Not at all. I was saying that Zach’s post makes jammer look less scummy(not even not scummy, just “less” scummy), but that doesn’t mean we assume he’s now town. Which is what jammer pointed out, and I agreed.

Vote Mastin

OK... WTF? BENMAGE??? YOU ARE CLEARLY JUMPING ON MASTIN WAGGON... IT'S REALLY SCUMMY YES! IM FURIOUS (HENCE THE CAPS). I LIKE MASTIN. HE HELPS TOWN. HE MAY BE SCUM BUT THERE ARE NO LEADS THAT INDICATE THAT RIGHT NOW.

Uhh, okay wow…uhm hop of his dick. The caps adds to anything? …nope… He may be scum, you may not believe anything indicates it, but I do. 3-4 votes in this large game isn’t a dreadful wagon, so chill.

]
Now obviously I didn’t vote you. I don’t think this is the most compelling scum find. I am much more inclined to vote for Mastin who initiated this motive, and auto-ruled himself out, because he would obviously kill someone else if he was scum.

Bullshit. Mastin made a theory. It isn't foolproof. It doesn't rule him out. He provided a way to start the game.

I know it doesn’t rule him out. Thank you. He’s trying to rule himself out. I disagree and find that to be scummy. Maybe you should’ve read that before the NuTsOCaPs.

Alexhans, why so upset about Mastin being bandwagoned?

I see no reasons for voting him but atacking the first one who makes something to move the game. He is acting as he usually does and his auto-clearing doesn't seem scummy to me. Just mastin's personality. I should check a game where he is scum to have more information but from what I have now he is not scummy.

I'm not liking a fast waggon on an active, pro town player...

We should worry about those who DONT post or post null opinions and keep discussing everything...

Acting the same way one does when town doesn’t clear them.

Dude... I'm not saying he is a townie... I just HATE his waggon right now when there's still players who haven't posted and I don't really get the reasons behind the Mastin votes.

Nowhere near being lynch, relax.

Pro town doesnt mean he is not mafia... look at VP Baltar, for instance. He always acts pro town. You have to look his actions very closely to see hidden motives.

He does…

Long posts do not mean pro-town. I don't think Mastin has acted pro-town at all.

QFT…although it’s much more appreciated that one-liners. Also I personally don’t like Mastin’s spam one-line quotes + one-line comments.
Also @post 107 by GIEFF I agree with his comments regarding Mastin trying to declare his “townness” and dislike it.

You suggest we ignore the kill?

Yes, or come with something good. You say not to disregard the kill, yet I've seen nothing usefull on that topic coming from you.

This contradicts itself jammer, no? You answer should be. “No, but nothing useful has come from it yet” or something along those lines. To note, I don’t think the kill should be ignored.

also, in addition to Mastin's following post I would tell you to look at Sensfan's death on n0 in Mafia 91. Not random.

Mastin has a very good point when he says that n0 kills are very probably not random.

If you catched mafia using meta with the kill back then, I can follow. Till I hear you did that, I call the idea stupid.

I don’t know Sensfan, so I couldn’t tell you that is death N0 in mafia 91, wasn’t random. I was in that game and this N0 focus on kills wasn’t really brought up. The only thing noted was that Empking was probably not random because people dislike playing with him.

Unvote, Vote: Alex Hans

Serious vote. Serious wagon required.

Hmm…why…

Are you and Mastin a couple irl?
Maybe if you quit whinging and listen to the points against Mastin with an open mind, you might fare better in the game.

Lol, but then also a good point.

Agreed. Ironically, Alex mentions M91 as solid reason for NK speculation, noting that Sens’ N0 death wasn’t random. Except the other scum group, which I was a part of, removed everyone we played with from the player list and then randomly killed from that list N0 as to throw off townies trying to do this exact kind of speculation.

WOW*****can we lynch Mastin yet?

2:10 is considered theoretically balanced, though Town has never won.

Wait...really? Then why is one of the newbie setups a 2:7??

I vote for who I think is Scum. That's it, that's all.
If you have any doubts about my ability to read with my gut, ask GIEFF.

You'll never get scum lynched that way.
You have to convince the rest of us!

Agree.

OK WTF BATTLE MAGE???? YOU ARE CLEARLY STARTING A BENMAGE WAGGON.

This is a joke right….and fyi I fully endorse the battle mage wagon.

I'm not calling anyone town until I'm REALLY convinced they are town... and event then... I will still watch them closely.

Then why are you so sure Mastin is town that you freak out when he gets 4 votes? That is inconsistent.

That’s an interesting find.

Trying to appear pro-town, whilst not actually saying anything.

BM... you're really starting to annoy me and you're really starting to look like trying to fake a case instead of actually scumhunting.

I think you’re both adding a lot of fluff, but I don’t see his case on you as a strong one.

That's why I wont be hard set on Mastin town.

Wow, fooled me.

Posting helps --- That's why lurking is so detrimental to town and no one should do it if they're town so scum cant hide in a lurker pool.

QFT

Active and great player, as he may be, it doesnt mean he is town

I know

, or worth keeping around.

I wouldn't be so sure about that as I've explained before.

Nor does it make people who are suspicious of him, automatically scummy.

No, BUT, I think one may always sense if a vote is forced or not. Benmage's vote, for example, sounded forced to me.

First this whole ‘big post’ seems like alex took some chill pills and may be trying to relax off the MASTIN is confirmed town mentality, which is an odd quick switch. Also my vote forced? What the fuck does that even mean. Are you suggesting that the 3-4 of us on Mastin all plotted to vote quickly and wagon him. No scum would ever do that. Don’t be an idiot.

Alright need to get some food. Currently caught up to post 127.
Top of page 6.

[GIEFF]

When I totally refuted and destroyed your case (in 149), I asked YOU some questions.. which you have totally ignored.

Do you care to answer them now?

I did not think I had left any questions un-answered. In 149, you asked:

Questions: why did you ignore these examples?
Is that not the definition of a crap-case?
Did you even read the games?

And I responded:

I skimmed all of those games, which I picked randomly. I do not think my "case" (I wouldn't even call it that) is strong, and I am not shoving it down your throat. You asked me to look into your meta, so I did. Why are you reacting so strongly?

But to be more specific:

I did not ignore anything on purpose. A number of the quotes you bring up do not look like buddying to me. They were more game-related (related to lynches and voting), and I did not think they were buddying out of the blue, as was the case for the other ones. Simply saying "I like you" isn't enough to be buddying, in my opinion. I was also skimming the games, so I did not find every example - I even asked you to be sure I didn't miss any.

That is not the definition of a crap-case, no.

Yes, I skimmed the games - I did not read every post carefully. I read more carefully in the early portion of the games, which is when you buddied me when you were scum, when you buddied me in this game, and before there is a chance for the pure buddying to be tainted with things like lynches and votes.

------

It was never my intent to say "aha! camn is scum because she is buddying, and this proves it!" I simply noticed that you were buddying me in a similar fashion to the way you buddied me in the game in which you were my scumbuddy, and so I brought it up, and called it scummy.


YOU asked me to look further into your meta, and so I did, and you reacted quite strongly, and threw me an OMGUS vote.

I asked you why you were reacting so strongly - this was not answered. Instead, you edited this question out of my quote and ignored it, instead making a joke.

I asked you why you joked instead of answering the question about your strong reaction.

And in your next post, you once again ignored any mention of your strong reaction, and my question about WHY you ignored my first question.

Are you saying that I should have "followed up" on my accusations IN THE SAME POST that I MADE the accusations?
That is nonsense.

I am not saying you should have done it in the same post, although that would have been fine. But in your very next post, (Post 158, which you claim was you "following up") you dodge a question, make a joke, and don't attack me at all. You made much better cases than that, and were much more aggressive than that in the games I read when you were town.

And you have attacked NOBODY else this game but me, other than your first vote for Baltar, which you have since said you will not return to. No votes, no FOS's, no questions, no accusations, zip, nada, zilch. JUST me... and yet you don't seem to really think I am scum, either.

Do you find anybody else scummy? Why? Do you find anything about me scummy other than what you perceive to be a faulty case that I am trying to shove down your throat?

If you have any sane, rational QUESTIONS, please ask them.

Again:

Why did you react so strongly to my investigation into your meta?
Why did you ignore me when I asked this question, instead trying to turn it into a joke?


Do not mistake my attention on you as thinking you are the scummiest player. I would prefer to be grilling Mastin or Battle Mage, yet they are not answering my questions.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Though I wasn't as clear in my post(s) in retrospect as I remembered, but I assume people would only remove players they knew from the list and then from that list I randomly selected one. As it stands, I've never played with Zilla and I sent in the kill on him. So I find the Alex/Mastin theories to be more than a little short-sighted.

But, still, many scum in that game suggested Sensfan kill because he might be dangerous. It's not a totally invalid theory.

I don’t think I ever said it was an invalid theory just that pushing it so hard when it’s such an easy WIFOM situation is sub-standard play.

@DDD:

Cephrir expects three or four scum, says we should assume four scum because of that possibility. And then concludes by stating there probably aren't four scum. While these statements are completely contradictory they certainly don't look good to me.

I disagree with this. If anything, Cephrir's idea makes sense. If we assume a higher number of scum than we actually have then we will be more cautious, thinking that we have less chances than we actually do. Then, if we're wrong, we get an extra lynch or something that we weren't expecting, as opposed to being wrong while assuming too few scum, and hitting endgame sooner than we thought.

I don’t disagree that we should work on the “rather safe than sorry” assumption, its Cephrir’s tone and attempt to hold multiple opinions that bothers me.

[Benmage]

oh ya, let me

unvote

untill i can catchup, only seems fair.

[Zachrulez]

While Alexhans vs Battlemage | Camn vs Geiff has been going on, Mastin has fallen off the face of this game.

What's up with that?

[camn]

Why did you react so strongly to my investigation into your meta?
Why did you ignore me when I asked this question, instead trying to turn it into a joke?

Well, I will try and explain it to you.. even though I already did.

I was not reacting particularly strongly, in my opinion. Thus your comment that PRESUMED that I was "reacting strongly" was a misrepresentation at best, and a lie at worst... and EITHER WAY I interpreted it (and still do) as you trying to turn the discussion away from your INCREDIBLE failure at reading. It was not germane to the discussion, and did not deserve anything but my scorn and disdain.

RE: Question #2....It is the same thing.
I made no Joke. You attest I made a joke.. but I see no smiley face. Your assumption is wrong. Probably it is just a lie. Thus, again, you are simply trying to change the subject, and it doesn't deserve anything but my scorn and disdain.

----------------------------

Are you saying that I should have "followed up" on my accusations IN THE SAME POST that I MADE the accusations?
That is nonsense.

I am not saying you should have done it in the same post, although that would have been fine.

How do you follow up on something in the same post that you first post it in? You realize that doesn't even make sense, right?

Actually nevermind. Don't answer that.
I am tabling this discussion for 72 hours.
I am not interested in your vortex of poor logic, and it is disturbing my feng-shui.

Since I value my feng shui, I will not be fielding your questions until I mellow out.

[VP Baltar]

If you have any familiarity with my play, you'd know that outright asking for a roleclaim would merely be a BM-tell. Maybe a mild town-tell? I'm not sure.

I'm not familiar with your play. I've heard your name plenty, but I don't recall reading any games with you in them.

Saying "are you a cop?" is not rolefishing. It's roleASKING.

I still think Alex might have slipped were it not for your comment.

I don't think he would have, but whatevs. I pretty much believe at this point you were trying to trap him, as ridiculous as that sounds. That being said, I read over your little spat with alex and it seems quite contrived on your end. Vote remains.


@camn-since you've been reading along with interest in the alex/BM faceoff, I would like to hear some of your opinions regarding it. Who do you think looks scummier coming out of it?

@Kairyuu--when you catch up I'd like to hear your assessment of the alex/BM faceoff as well.

Wait...really? Then why is one of the newbie setups a 2:7??

I think he was refering to a 2:10 setup without powerroles.

I fully endorse the battle mage wagon.

I was reading you as being more critical of being alex. Was I wrong about this?


Cephrir, DDD, and jammer--are you voting for the person you think has been the scummiest thus far in the game?

[GIEFF]

Thank you for answering my questions, camn. Calling my logic poor does not make it poor. Tabling for now is fine with me, too.

----

While Alexhans vs Battlemage | Camn vs Geiff has been going on, Mastin has fallen off the face of this game.

What's up with that?

He was V/LA over the weekend, but has returned today and posted in two other games. I eagerly await his return to this game.

Also worrisome:

Spyrex has 2 posts, and no votes or FOSs.
Cephrir has 3 non-"will catch up later" posts, and none since 4 days ago.
Sensfan has just 1 vote, in his very first post in the thread, which he refuses to explain. This is particularly odd for a player who calls himself "very aggressive", and who is active in other games.

I would be very surprised if all three were town.


Here is a full voting/FOS history (automatically generated, so there may be errors):

camn

Vote: VP BALTHAR Post 5
unvote Vote :GIEFF Post 64
UNVOTE Post 145
Vote : Gieff Post 149

Mastin

Mastin Votes: Mastin Post 6
Mastin Unvotes: Mastin, Mastin Votes: Battle Mage Post 10

Kairyuu

vote: alexhans Post 7
vote: jammer Post 22

Debonair Danny DiPietro

Vote: Kairyuu Post 9
Unvote; Vote: Cephrir Post 59

alexhans

Vote broomhead Post 12
FoS Benmage Post 94

jammer

Vote: SensFan Post 21
Vote: GIEFF Post 56

GIEFF

Vote: jammer Post 30
unvote jammer Post 55
Vote Mastin Post 69
FOS alexhans Post 127

Zachrulez

Vote: Gieff Post 45
Unvote:, Vote: Mastin Post 62

SensFan

Vote" jammer Post 46

Battle Mage

Vote: Ben Post 68
Unvote, Vote: Mastin Post 71
Unvote, Vote: Alex Hans Post 110
Confirm Vote: Alex Post 142

Benmage

Vote Mastin Post 82
unvote Post 193

VP Baltar

Vote GIEFF Post 112
Unvote, Vote: Battle Mage Post 143

[VP Baltar]

Spyrex has 2 posts, and no votes or FOSs.

Just for reference, I think Spyrex is travelling right now so I would guess that his posting would be sporadic until he gets back.

[camn]

@camn-since you've been reading along with interest in the alex/BM faceoff, I would like to hear some of your opinions regarding it. Who do you think looks scummier coming out of it?

BM.