Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[jammer]

Jammer, Kairyuu, Spy, Alex, Camn, and BM: Who are you suspicious of other than the person you are voting?

I don't really like the last followers of the Mastin wagon, DDD & SF. I don't think falling behind after being V/LA and having other games where to catch up is a relieable meta-tell at this point and doesn't deserve that amount of votes while he isn't posting.
I think Alex is thinking along those lines. But was going against the wagon a little to hard. He is more attacking the "intentions" of the wagon followers then defending Mastin himself.

List
GIEFF(repeating questions, asking obvious questions, pushing crapcases)
If I got the time I'm gonna pull a case out why and what I suspect you. I think you want to hear that, not just recent events. But those made you come higher on it.
Cephrir(contradiction in first post+lurking)(what DDD said)
Zach (gut)


Before I forget.

Unvote: Cephrir
Vote: GIEFF

[Zachrulez]

Okay, while I'm trying to make sense of the last few pages here, I am going to throw a simplified summary of what I see so far in them.

Gieff unvotes Mastin

Gieff votes BM

Gieff makes case on BM

Gieff abandons case on BM

hours

later to vote for camn.

All the while the last few pages have a lot of talk about Camn and Gieff and none about Mastin, who has been lurking up until yesterday, has speculated on the NK heavier than what I believe to be normal for his meta, and has is "catching up" but upon his last posting only seemed to have gotten to the end of page 3.

Is that a pretty accurate recollection of what's been going on so far?

[GIEFF]

Yes, Zach, pretty accurate. You're right - maybe I shouldn't have taken the pressure off of Mastin- I just found BM, and then camn, scummier. It's could just be because Mastin's behavior was so long ago, but I don't think that's it.

GIEFF(repeating questions, asking obvious questions, pushing crapcases)
If I got the time I'm gonna pull a case out why and what I suspect you. I think you want to hear that, not just recent events.

Yes, I would appreciate that. I would also appreciate you trying to read my case on camn before labeling it as crap - if it really does come across that way, that is my fault, as I am pretty confident she is scum. Just because camn keeps repeating "crapcase!" (11 times), does not make it so. Mafia is not the game to take others' words for things.

[camn]

Mafia is not the game to take others' words for things.

Especially YOUR WORD, given the amount of factual inaccuracies your "cases" against me have had !!

PS.. i am in a good mood this morning.

GEIFF-- what do you think of KMD so far?

[GIEFF]

KMD has contributed very little scumhunting. I don't like his vote on me, and retro-active attempt to justify it. I didn't like his adamant defense of you, and his assumption that my case was crap before he knew what it was, but as he doesn't appear to be the only one to think my case sucks, that's not as big a deal.


If you get a chance, camn, could you answer my questions in 410, please?

[camn]

I already addressed those questions.

I ask about KMD.. because it seems like a lot of your 'case' is based on meta-reads.
So I would like to point out that KMD has a rather SIGNIFICANT amount of meta on me. More than you, certainly.
SO if you want insight into my play here vs. my meta.. he would be a good resource.
Plus, although we like each other, both of us would be very happy to see the other dead... so I would guess his reads are as unbiased as one can expect.

Unless, of course, you are implying that we are scumbuddies. Are you?

[Battle Mage]

Jammer, Kairyuu, Spy, Alex, Camn, and BM: Who are you suspicious of other than the person you are voting?

Ceph, who are you suspicious of?

----------------

My second suspect is alexhans FTR.

ha, is there any merit to me saying who i suspect, when i cant even remember who i'm voting? lmao

Will review.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage:

[mrow]Game[col]Alignment[col]Posts / Day[col]1,000's of Chars / DayNewbie 688[col]Scum[col]1.3[col]0.5US Election Mafia[col]Scum[col]1.9[col]0.6Newbie 763[col]Scum[col]1.4[col]0.6Newbie 770[col]Town[col]3.8[col]1.7Freelancer Mafia[col]Town[col]1.9[col]0.4Mafia 82[col]Town[col]2.8[col]0.9Traitor Mafia[col]Town[col]1.3[col]0.2Choose Carefully Mafia[col]Town[col]1.6[col]0.3Crackers Mafia[col]Town[col]4.1[col]0.7Return to New Catania[col]Town[col]2.6[col]0.5Mafia 83[col]Town[col]2[col]0.4This Game[col]?[col]5[col]3.2

Battle Mage posts about 600 characters per day when town or scum, but posts about 1.5 times a day as scum, and 2.5 times a day as town. This doesn't support my case on BM, but I am still very happy with my vote for him.

Interesting stats. I guess i'll consider them a mild town-tell for myself, but really, nothing major.

Gotta ask though-why bother to research those stats, if you didnt intend to take them seriously enough to follow up?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I am constantly amazed that you can do that stuff.. . but if you ignore your own stats.. then what is the point?

I'm not ignoring it. I would not use posts/day meta as a sole reason for determining alignment. In BM's case, his other actions far outweigh the fact that he tends to post more often as town, and has posted very often in this game.

Not scumhunting at all is scummy.

Yes.

BM's play in this game is a great example of why scum don't like scumhunting - it's hard to remain consistent in your suspicion when that suspicion is faked to begin with.

Lmao. As fantastic a case study as i may appear, there's one little flaw.

I'm town. xD Just really brain-dead after not sleeping.

BM

[GIEFF]

I already addressed those questions.

I ask about KMD.. because it seems like a lot of your 'case' is based on meta-reads.
So I would like to point out that KMD has a rather SIGNIFICANT amount of meta on me. More than you, certainly.
SO if you want insight into my play here vs. my meta.. he would be a good resource.
Plus, although we like each other, both of us would be very happy to see the other dead... so I would guess his reads are as unbiased as one can expect.

Unless, of course, you are implying that we are scumbuddies. Are you?

Very little of my case is based on meta-reads. Lack of scumhunting is scummy - the fact that you DO scumhunt in your town games just lends credence to it; it is NOT the basis of the case.

I don't remember you addressing the questions in 410 - if you already did, could you do me a favor and find your responses to all four of them, and repost them?


I am not implying you are scumbuddies, unless KMD starts making quote pyramids.

Interesting stats. I guess i'll consider them a mild town-tell for myself, but really, nothing major. :P

Gotta ask though-why bother to research those stats, if you didnt intend to take them seriously enough to follow up?

I agree that it is a mild town-tell, and I did take this into account. I still think a scum-motivation fits your play a lot better than a town motivation, and the mild town-tell was not enough to counteract that. This is early in the game, and you've really gotten into it with alex. A hitter can go on a hot streak for a week, but that doesn't mean he's a .380 hitter.

[GIEFF]

I ask about KMD.. because it seems like a lot of your 'case' is based on meta-reads. So I would like to point out that KMD has a rather SIGNIFICANT amount of meta on me. More than you, certainly.
SO if you want insight into my play here vs. my meta.. he would be a good resource.

This is an appeal to authority. When has the wiki EVER been wrong about ANYTHING?

[camn]

Except don't think KMD is older or wiser.
He simply has played a ton of games with me.. whereas you have not.
If you are actually interested in truth, it would be silly to ignore his insight.... especially considering your reliance on my 'meta'.
Of course, no one really thinks you are interested in the truth....

And no, I will not do you that favor. You can read. It would do you good to go through my posts again, I think.

You know what I am already dreading? That this weekend, when, as I have already mentioned, I fully intend on getting down to the biz of reviewing EVERY player for scumminess.... I am going to hear your dumb "appeasement" argument.

It won't be that I am no longer acting 'scummy' according to you.. but that I am 'appeasing' you, which is also 'scummy'.

You have set it up pretty neatly that ANYTHING I do is 'scummy' according to you.
Hunting, not hunting,
OMGUS, NOT OMGUS.....
Playing like I always have, Deviating from my meta..
apparently it ALL works with your arguments.

I only hope you will read back here after this game is over, and realize how wrong you are in every instance.

[camn]

And

UNVOTE

Fielding this torrent of nonsense has totally derailed my plans with Benmage. I'll come back to him someday. Hopefully.

[Benmage]

I'm nowhere near caughtup in this game. I swear everytime I goto bed and come back there is atleast 2+ pages added on.

I'm dissapoint in Camn...he was really going places...siiiiiikkeee

And

UNVOTE

Fielding this torrent of nonsense has totally derailed my plans with Benmage. I'll come back to him someday. Hopefully.

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Mastin (5): Zachrulez, Benmage, VP Baltar, Debonair Danny DiPietro
GIEFF (3): Kmd4390, SensFan, jammer
Battle Mage (1): Mastin
jammer (1): Kairyuu
Zachrulez (1): SpyreX
SensFan (1): alexhans
VP Baltar (1): Battle Mage
camn (1): GIEFF


Not Voting: Cephrir, camn

8 to lynch

[camn]

Another question for GIEFF....

If I am so committed to "looking town".. why is it you think I am so scummy?

Am I just plain terrible at it? Do I really SUCK at 'looking town'?
Or do you, GEIFF, simply have superhuman perceptive powers, that can easily see through all of my attempts to 'appear town'?

It seems like, If I was so into 'looking town'.. that I would have figured out how to do it by now!

[Benmage]

I don't know why both Sensfan and BM claim they see nothing scummy about camn.

• She has contributed little to no scumhunting.
  
• She has shown she is more concerned about how she is viewed by the town than about catching scum.
  
• She strongly over-reacted to my investigation of her meta, and OMGUS-voted me. Once again, this was NOT about scumhunting, but about protecting how she is viewed by the town, as evidenced by how weakly she pursued it.

She just seems like a poor player to me.

These posts establish an attempt by Mastin to both clear himself based on the nightkill and gather scum suspects based on the nightkill.

And I never lie about matters such as that, even as scum.
I'm an honorable player.
The proof is in my recent anti-town games.

I'd *never* Night-kill a person like Hascow with *far* better targets around.

The

*only* possible

way is if I was overrided by a player that I hold huge respect for. I gave, in my list before, who those people are.

And even then, it's doubtful that I'd allow them to.

Also, gathering suspects based off of the unusual night-kill--->Hugely pro-town. At that stage in the game, it is *definitely* the best possible way to find scum. Later on, scum tells become important, sure.

I don’t think this is a valid statement. “Oh I’m an honorable player” “I don’t lie” etc etc..fluff we can’t believe, sorry but this is exactly what I’d expect scum to say.

I know if I was scum, Camn wouldn't be living past today.

This seems genius.

@ Alex... I theorize that OMGUS is, if anything, a town-tell. Townies get mad when people call them scummy. Scum get scared.

Which means your OMGUS-vote of me is yet another example of you behaving in a way you think will make you seem to be town rather than behaving in a way that is likely to catch scum.

Ooo ooo he did that to me too.

You are trying to act like you think townies act, instead of trying to catch scum.

QFT

(That's the reason

I

joined this game. )

Didn’t you just go on a tangent of you two vengefully killing eachother… O.o …

And PLEASE LYNCH ME!!!!!
PLEASE!
DO IT NOW!!!

I want to die right now just so the world will see how flawed your so-called "scumhunting" is.

Anyone else willing to give the lady what she wants?

Sensfan, can you make your point in non-analogy form? That makes no sense to me.

*You accuse her of OMGUSing you
*She denies OMGUSing you
*You reply "Well, let's not get hung up on our respective definitions of OMGUS"

Lol.

I can’t read this Gieff vs Camn/KmD conflict anymore. It rivals BM vs Alex in fluff/uselessness/and has totally derailed any direction for the day. It also makes catching up in this game less favorable than slamming ones head in to the wall. Regardless I still think a Mastin lynch is best thus far. I really wish he wasn’t only on page 3…*sigh*

[camn]

Ooo ooo he did that to me too.

When?

[Benmage]

Ooo ooo he did that to me too.

When?

Here:

UNVOTE
vote: Benmage

[camn]

And you are contending that that was an OMGUS vote?

[Benmage]

And you are contending that that was an OMGUS vote?

Are you suggesting otherwise?

[camn]

Should I take that as as a yes, or an evasion?

YOu actually had done little other than agree with me before I voted you.

(in 190 and 229)

You CERTAINLY weren't attacking me......
So...What would I be OMG-ing about?

Whereas . . AFTER I voted you, you seem to have gotten a little more negative toward me, no?

(in 305, 438 and 441)

So, once again.... are you saying that >I< OMGUS voted YOU?
Or would you like to retract your implication in Post 441?

[Benmage]

Maybe you just don't understand all the context of an "omgus" vote. it doesn't always literally mean, oh my god you suck…You mention me what…once before in the text in a null reference and than drop a post which only contains a vote. No prior/lead-up explanation. Just a vote. Period. End of story. That in my book is a quintessential example of an “omgus” vote.

[camn]

WELL THEN!.. I will try

harder

to understand the '

context

' of an '

omgus

' vote.
I will take a lesson from you that omgus =/= omgus in all occasions. sometimes it can just be willy-nilly applied to any circumstance.
(which of course makes it even LESS of a scumtell!)
Thank you for expanding my mind.
I was mistaken that the term actually had meaning.

PS..
That vote for for your lack of comprehension and needless attacks on GEIFF in post 300.
I have been studying under Incognito.. the fine art of withholding your reasons for voting.. but I got distracted. Plus I no longer feel like defending GEIFF.

[Benmage]

If you gave initial context it wouldn't have been an omgus-vote/seemed scummy/made you look like a bad player. I don't know if the wiki offers a handbook or something, but I'd suggest playing some more newbie games, they may be more fitting.