Stars Aligned - GAME OVER

[EriktheRed]

Confirmed.

[EriktheRed]

Guess what i did last night...

I really don't like the feeling of this.

[EriktheRed]

Well, it's not like you've used it for anything yet. Just make a new one, no harm done.

And claiming something scummy is a joke after the fact doesn't work as a defense.

[EriktheRed]

Oh, I forgot to mention that my night was quite silent. Obviously, then, I didn't ward.

[EriktheRed]

Interesting, I heard no noise. I am curious about how to proceed here. Are we going to lynch anyone?

I'm frankly shocked that no one has voted yet.

[EriktheRed]

Serious votes or random votes? Why haven't you voted? [...] Also, 12Keyblade has voted chensi.

I was thinking either type. And, yeah, I'd forgotten about that very first vote when I posted that. Sorry. I haven't voted for the same reason as everyone else, I guess; I'm too busy with the awesome theme mechanics to think about the normal ones.

I am a cultist, who plans on going serial killer as soon as I can.

You claim serial killer. But you're Mastin. Yet you've claimed scum.

... This is just going in circles.

Vote: Mastin

Also, hai!

[EriktheRed]

vote:Mastin

Care to actually give any sort of reason for this? Or are you just opportunistically hopping on the bandwagon?

[EriktheRed]

Not even in the RVS?

Nope. Self-voting or using dice tags to decide your random vote are purely anti-town actions, by depriving us of interactions to analyze later on in the game.

I have no idea how scummy are suppose to act.

While I get the obvious newbie read from DN like everyone else, I'm not sure it's newbie town, because of this quote. He doesn't know how he should act as scum.

Seriously?

Unvote

Vote: DeathNote

[EriktheRed]

I agree that only one person should rob the graves. It makes perfect sense to me.

unvote

Vote: JasonT1981

You voted Mastin with zero reasoning, and haven't posted a shred of content to help town. What are you trying to accomplish?

[EriktheRed]

Zwett I think you have to target a player in order to rob the grave. So unless you know who is going to die its going to be a waste of an acion, yes? Correct me if I am wrong I am still reading up on the rules.

We're talking about the lynch, not the NK. Zwet will know who that is when we go into night. But this brings up an interesting point: we're going to need more than one person robbing graves each night, unless we get lucky with the resuscitation.

Wait, zwet replaced out then replaced in?

I believe he never picked up his role PM the first time, so I don't think there's a problem.

[EriktheRed]

EBWOP: Didn't notice nhammen beat me to that first point. Oops.

[EriktheRed]

There is an order to the actions as posted in the first post. Rob grave occurs before both the murder and ritual resolution steps. Therefore we only need 1 robber. I just did not realize lynches were no reveal earlier.

While this is true, we'll still need more than one, aside from tonight. One for tomorrow's lynch, one for tonight's NK, and another one for each potential murder. We rob the grave the night after they die, not the same night.

[EriktheRed]

I am just saying we don't need to worry about the assigned robber dieing.

Oh. Yes, I agree, one robber per corpse. I completely missed that, sorry. I need a nap.

[EriktheRed]

DN is town...

You're awfully confident about that.

[EriktheRed]

Certainty of alignment on D1 like this is more a scumtell than something in which to take pride. The only way you can know for a fact he is not a cultist is if you are yourself a cultist.

[EriktheRed]

DN

is

town...

"Is." This is definitively stating that DN is town. Nowhere did you say either "confident" OR "positive," so I don't know where you're getting either of those words to put in my mouth.

Also, I just realized my current votee has been replaced and I was only voting him for inactivity/possible-newbishness, so

unvote

[EriktheRed]

I despise that so much. Inactivity my butt! I try to post and it just makes me look guitly. If I could vote again and not get critized for it, it would be Mastin, but I won't. Instead I will remain

inactive

again.

This would be great if I had actually been talking about you. However, I was voting for JasonT1981, who

has

been inactive and been replaced. Your overreaction is noted, however.

[EriktheRed]

Well you also stated that he was being noobish so I assumed you meant me. Since I was wrong I am wondering what about Jason has been noobish?

It's hard to explain. Just read his posts in isolation; he didn't contribute anything or justify his vote, even after I and someone else called him on it. I took this as a scumtell, but could easily be explained by not being used to play on this site and his subsequent flaking.

You've got to be kidding me.

Dismissing my attacks against you, too. Lovely.

Vote: Zwetschenwasser

[EriktheRed]

Unvote, Vote: Erikthered

You will have to give more reasoning then that.

Zwet's at, what, L-12 or so? Yes, I hope the scum don't pile on for a quicklynch when there's no reason for this wagon. /sarcasm

I don't expect to see him lynched just for this (though I'd be pleased for nailing a scum), but if you'd just pay attention to how he's reacting, you would be able to guess that he's going to slip more and more as it builds.

[EriktheRed]

Unvote, Vote: Erikthered

You will have to give more reasoning then that.

Zwet's at, what, L-12 or so? Yes, I hope the scum don't pile on for a quicklynch when there's no reason for this wagon. /sarcasm

I don't expect to see him lynched just for this (though I'd be pleased for nailing a scum), but if you'd just pay attention to how he's reacting, you would be able to guess that he's going to slip more and more as it builds.

You want zwet to slip?! -.-

Um, I'm not exactly sure how to react to such a useless question. Yes, that would be amazing.

[EriktheRed]

Um, I'm not exactly sure how to react to such a useless question. Yes, that would be amazing.

How dare you?!

How dare I what, exactly? Call a question I'd already answered useless, or want scum to slip so it'll be easier to get a good lynch today? Why are you defending Zwet like this? It's as if you don't want to see him lynched.

[EriktheRed]

Why do you know he is scum?
Why do you think my post was useless?
What makes you think i am defending him?

1. I never said I know he is scum. I said I would like for scum to slip, and that I would like for Zwet to slip. Those are two separate hopes. Obviously, if Zwet is town, I wouldn't want him to slip.
2. Because you asked a question I had already answered.
3. Because you're arguing that he doesn't deserve my vote for just that slip, and voting me because of it, and... defending him.

[EriktheRed]

An example of what, scum? Because he's the scummiest player I see. That's also why I'm voting for him.

[EriktheRed]

To be conscious that you are ignorant is a great step to knowledge.

This is true. Are you trying to bait me into saying that I'm not ignorant, so you can call me on implying I'm certain he's scum and lynch me for that? I don't appreciate how you think I'd fall for something that obvious.

Zwet's not the scummiest player I see anymore.

Unvote

Vote: Datadanne

[EriktheRed]

Datadanne, WTH are you talking about? You are making no sense and posting almost nothing.

So, it's not just me confused by it? Great. I was trying my best to respond.

[EriktheRed]

SOMETHING

SCUMHUNTING, DEFENSE, EXPLANATION, HELL, ANY CONTENT WHATSOEVER

fixed

[EriktheRed]

After reading that game Sarag linked, I've decided two things: 1) I have got to play another game with the Fonz, and 2) Datadanne is a mere VI.

Unvote

Back to Zwet.

vote: Zwetschenwasser

Same reasons as before, maybe I'll look for something more tomorrow.

[EriktheRed]

DN

is

town...

"Is." This is definitively stating that DN is town. Nowhere did you say either "confident" OR "positive," so I don't know where you're getting either of those words to put in my mouth.

Also, I just realized my current votee has been replaced and I was only voting him for inactivity/possible-newbishness, so

unvote

Does anyone else see a little strawmanning in this. Zwet never directly used those words, but when asked why if he is "confident" he replies he is sure. I think ETR is missing this point.

Um, no, this is a blatant misrepresentation. Zwet says Deathnote definitively

is

town, in post 430,

before

he backtracks to saying he's merely "confident" in 434. You're saying he was only positive after first being confident, which would be a simple means of emphasizing his feelings. But he's not. He knows for a fact DN is town, and when I called him on it he realized his mistake and backpedaled to something more defensible.

[EriktheRed]

Zwet: Whatever; where I come from, words actually mean something, and a figure of speech is something also known as an idiom, and there's nothing idiomatic about "is". I understand what you're saying, but what you're saying is nothing but backpedaling.

Cydonia: Love your username. I already said that I didn't think this alone would be enough for a lynch. I said it would get reactions. And look how emotional he's getting under pressure, since he doesn't have a rational, usable defense for why he knows this. I'm not inclined to say "Oh, it's Zwet, he implies he's part of the informed faction all the time, let's ignore this scumtell for meta reasons." If I see Zwet is an idiot in

this

game, you'll have made a point with me. Plus, how the hell can someone misinterpret "DN is town...", anyway? There's no other interpretation but "DN is town"!

[EriktheRed]

Confidence can be expressed more emphatically than it really is. It's called rhetoric. Take a literature class, then come back and tell me I don't know how to use English correctly.

Done already several times over, thanks. I never said you don't know how to use English correctly; I only said that you're backpedaling, and doing it poorly. You're making this personal. A scummy reaction to an accusation, which only serves to reinforce my belief that I'm right.

[EriktheRed]

Tell me how "DN is town" can mean anything but "DN is town", and how I'm misrepresenting it. You're the one trying to misrepresent the slip, not me. After I called you on it, you changed it and said, "I shoar am [confident]." That's going from a scummy position of certainty backward to a more defensible level of mere confidence. Backpedaling.

[EriktheRed]

DN is town is my way of saying that I'm confident he is town.

Which is what you should've said in the very beginning, instead of trying to change it after the fact and getting scummily emotional. Had you reacted in a more townie fashion, I'd have laid off by now.

However, I think I might be tunneling on Zwet a bit, so I'm going to take a couple steps back and reread some with fresh eyes in the morning.

[EriktheRed]

JamesBond, why aren't you posting any content?

I don't like Sajin calling a policy lynch without any reasoning relevant to the particular game at hand scummy, since that is exactly what makes it a policy lynch. But that's not really relevant right now.

Dramonic, why did you merely hop onto my wagon with hardly any reasoning at all?

Magua, I don't think anyone should murder either of those players (or anyone at all, for that matter!). We really don't need the extra insanities to throw off our researching and making townies look scummy. It will be much more cost-effective for us to simply ignore them, unless one of them scum-slips.

[EriktheRed]

Policy lynching is lynching someone you do not like the playstyle of (best example would be mastin).

I am proposing a data lynch because he has been active lurking, avoiding questions and been generally unhelpful in this game.

Explain to me why the 2nd statement makes my lynch "policy"

Sorry, that was in response to post 505, when you said that proposing a policy lynch on Mastin was scummy because it didn't have any other reasons. But not having any other reasons is what

makes

it a policy lynch.

I have no problem with how you want a dataDyne lynch, other than the fact that I think he's just a VI townie.

[EriktheRed]

So, how exactly is Zwet's vote tolerable, then?

Anyway, Dramonic, I wanted to make sure you actually had reasons, instead of just hopping on opportunistically.

[EriktheRed]

At the moment, because of denseness and inability to accept the obvious truth.

So, you're voting me because you think I'm stupid.

...

I'm really the only one who finds Zwet scummy?

[EriktheRed]

No, because you are smart, and are pretending to be stupid.

Funny. You said you were voting because of "denseness and inability to accept the obvious truth." Doesn't sound like you think I'm feigning ignorance to me. Did you change your mind about what you meant now that I called you on it, again?

[EriktheRed]

No, because you are smart, and are pretending to be stupid.

Funny. You said you were voting because of "denseness and inability to accept the obvious truth." Doesn't sound like you think I'm feigning ignorance to me. Did you change your mind about what you meant now that I called you on it, again?

NO FOOL

See? You call me a fool. I, again, can't see how you claim to say you mean I'm faking this stupidity, especially now that you've gone back to the insults again — must be because of my dim wit. It's certainly not because you're reacting scummily to the accusations by getting emotional and illogical.

[EriktheRed]

Chenhsi's description of the case is pretty accurate. It's day one; you can't expect the wagon to actually have that much merit.

Vote: Erikthered

Now, if only I spoke French!

[insert french for 'explainplz' here]

I don't know.

Unvote

So... you were just hopping on my wagon to hop on my wagon? And unvoted as soon as someone called you on it? That's even scummier than Zwet knowing the players' alignments.

Unvote; vote: Seraphim

[EriktheRed]

Watch out, James! Seraphim's gonna vote

you

now!

[EriktheRed]

Go, WIFOM!

This is purely theorical, but I think Seraphim is trying to divert attention off EtR on purpose.

What purpose could this serve, though?

Assuming the case on me is actually legit and I am scum, and assuming Seraphim is also scum, sacrificing himself to save me wouldn't make sense since the scum would still lose a member either way. And, clearly, since I have a wagon on me already, I would not exactly be considered the best player on the scumteam.

If Seraphim is town, my alignment is irrelevant since Seraphim wouldn't know it, and there is no reason to try to draw attention from me. At all.

But I am town, and if we assume Seraphim is scum trying to hop on my wagon without getting noticed, this actually makes sense. I don't think it's some clever attempt to save me, but bad scum play.

[EriktheRed]

Unvote
Vote: Datadanne

You're right, this is a much better use of my vote.

Why do you think Datadanne is scum?

[EriktheRed]

I read Datadanne in isolation and didn't like what I saw. If you want, I could quote some of the more distressing posts but that certainly would take a lot of effort...

That won't be necessary; I just wanted to see if you had reason.

[EriktheRed]

I AM EVIL

Claiming scum, I see?

FOS: Zwet

even more.

[EriktheRed]

Still hopping I see. How many different players have you had votes on today now?

How many players have I found scummier than the last? Vote hopping is not a scumtell in and of itself. Hopping onto a

bandwagon

like Seraphim did is a scumtell. There's no problem with swinging my vote onto whoever deserves it more at the time. In fact, keeping my vote on a less-scummy player is anti-town, so I'm surprised you're chastising me for this.

I can go for either a Seraphim or a Zwet lynch. Datadanne is newb/VI town.

[EriktheRed]

My only translation to VI is village idiot and we're in a game without those <<

*facepalm* ... Village idiot isn't a role... A village idiot is a notoriously bad/useless player. Zwet, Data, Mastin, etc. Did you even bother to read the game someone linked of Data's play as town?

you don't explain how A is scummier than B at any point.

Try reading my posts. I do explain my votes, actually. Every time.

If I start acting scummy for the whole day then Chensi pops in and yell CHICKEN you'll vote him because he's "scummier" at the moment?

Strawmanning me. Scummy of you. Not as scummy as Seraphim or Zwet, though.

Vote-hopping is not a scumtell. However, it's a nuisance to getting a lynch.

But not as much a nuisance as not reading the thread and/or not posting content. Besides, pressuring scummy players is a

good

thing. It gets reactions. It got Zwet to overreact, it got Data to post nonsense, it got Seraphim to OMGUS.

[EriktheRed]

OMGUS my ass. I totally voted for you first.

Not really; you unvoted me before I voted for you. And then after I voted for you for having zero dedication to my wagon (as evidenced by your unvote the instant someone questioned you), you voted for me again. OMGUS.

Also, I don't like Erik's 685 at all. Hopping onto a bandwagon is NOT a scumtell. Hopping with minimal reasoning is. Hopping on without ANY reasoning is not a scumtell because the entire point of hopping onto a bandwagon in the first place is to stealthily make a vote.

My vote was anything but stealthy.

You don't like it because I called you scummy. Now you're just trying to justify your actions. The only reason your vote wasn't stealthy is that you were noticed. As soon as you were noticed, you withdrew it. You tried to sneak onto the wagon, but were caught. And now, you're attempting to say you weren't being sneaky in the first place.

[EriktheRed]

Wrong. I voted for you later because Magua said to put a vote down. I did. Definitely not OMGUS.

Wrong. You voted for

DATADANNE

when Magua told you to put a vote down. Contradictions

are

scummy. Maybe your play has been erratic up 'til now, but this is a definite lie.

So, Dramonic, since you wanted me to point out again how each of my votees is scummier than the last:

1) Mastin claimed scum, which was scummy until it was decided a null-tell.
2) Deathnote was just behaving scummily and I wanted to pressure him.
3) Jason hopped onto a wagon wordlessly, but I unvoted him when he was replaced.
4) Zwet knew alignments among other anti-town actions, which is scummier.
5) Datadanne defended Zwet, a scummy player, which is even scummier still. I then discovered Datadanne is a VI, making him less scummy than Zwet, and thus re-voted Zwet.
6) Seraphim has been "erratic," which is in my opinion still scummy, wishy-washy, and now contradictory. That's scummier than mere certainty of alignment and overreaction.

[EriktheRed]

Oh, I see the VI confusion now. Sorry for insulting your knowledge of the game.

[EriktheRed]

Now who's lying?

Post 615: my first unvote of you
Post 616: Erik's vote on me
Post 621: Magua's call to put votes down
Post 622: My revote on you
Post 640: Magua says that Datadanne is a better lynch than EriktheRed
Post 644: I unvote you and vote Datadanne after reading up on him.

I dunno; let's look at what Magua said in post 621, where you say he told you to vote for someone:

So, for the six people who haven't voted yet -- deadline's less than a week away. Care to take a stand?

Six people. Let's see, who are the six people who he's talking about?

Not Voting - 6 (Drench, JamesBond, Knight of Cydonia, sideney, Jebus, zwetschenwasser)

Not you, Seraphim. You're floundering, trying to justify yourself.

[EriktheRed]

The sheer number of replacements on D1 seriously screwed over my knowledge of my cultbuddies. Plus, having Mastin and Zwet on our team did not help. I hadn't considered that half the scumteam would be policy vigged N1, and I had wanted to bus Zwet since he was such a liability.

[EriktheRed]

Yeah, Magua, great job. I probably would've given up in your situation. I saw your post in the quicktopic, something like, "HELLOOOO? Anybody here? *crickets*" and really felt bad for your (our) situation. I was really tempted to post something there, but didn't want to risk anything bad befalling us through mod-anger.

And you have no idea how annoyed I was that people preferred to lynch me over Zwet, haha.

Congratulations, nhammen. I hope one day to return the favor.