Newbie 807 - Game Over

[bgg1996]

Votes are to find, and kill scum, and that vote removed pressure from dothefandango.

I don't see what about my behavior you find scummy.

The only thing you said was me being scumbuddies with dothefandango, but I can't, so that blows your theory.

[ChannelDelibird]

Way to miss my point. I thought your vote on Kichirou was for terrible reasons (abandoning your supposed real suspicion for the sake of the game moving on) and looked like you might have been throwing your scumbuddy under the bus. This is independent of DTF.

[ChannelDelibird]

Also, I haven't once claimed today that you are scumbuddies with DTF. Only yesterday.

[Xtoxm]

Vote Count

Snow White (2) DTF, bgg

DTF (1) CDB

Not voting (2) CB, SW

3 to lynch.

[ChannelDelibird]

Also, bgg (or DTF, I don't mind which), please unvote Snow White. While I personally feel sure that the scum is already on that wagon, I don't want to run the risk of a quicklynch, accidental or otherwise, so early in the day.

[bgg1996]

Oh, please.
If there was a quicklynch, then mafia would kill someone, there would be 3 left, and we would win, voting the quicklyncher.

And, you're avoiding my question.
What about me do you find scummy?

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm not avoiding the question. I answered it in 276.

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh, please.
If there was a quicklynch, then mafia would kill someone, there would be 3 left, and we would win, voting the quicklyncher.

Sure, if the quicklynch is deliberate. I'm more wary of a newbtown player hammering prematurely or, god forbid, a self-vote like Kard did. Why do you have a problem with allowing more time for discussion?

[dothefandango]

Sorry all, my computer malfunctioned and thus I will have limited internet access until Saturday.

That being said, I will not change my vote. If anything I cannot see why you are even voting for me. My actions, whether you agree with them or not, are pretty much the reason we have one mafia left. All signs POINT TO SNOW WHITE.

[ChannelDelibird]

That being said, I will not change my vote. If anything I cannot see why you are even voting for me. My actions, whether you agree with them or not, are pretty much the reason we have one mafia left. All signs POINT TO SNOW WHITE.

No, they don't. You're trying to pretend you didn't irresponsibly and reasonlessly put Kard at lynch-1 on Day 1, and now you're trying to take credit for the Kichirou lynch (when your only reason for voting was that you didn't think he was a reliable source of info...I don't even know what you meant by that). I don't buy it. I think you're scum.

Also, I'm still waiting for a reason to vote for Snow White. I haven't seen a good one yet.

[dothefandango]

What I meant, and didn't want to say was that Kichirou was saying things he could not support and acting way too high profile. My L-1 vote of Kard was a mistake, I've admitted that extensively. If you think I'm sucm, that's fine -- but I want you to know you are wasting your vote, and a dayphase doing so.

[dothefandango]

Further, where is CB in this discussion? Or snow white?

[ChannelDelibird]

What I meant, and didn't want to say was that Kichirou was saying things he could not support and acting way too high profile. My L-1 vote of Kard was a mistake, I've admitted that extensively. If you think I'm sucm, that's fine -- but I want you to know you are wasting your vote, and a dayphase doing so.

Why didn't you want to say that? What possible reason did you have for keeping it back? Were you trying to hold back reasons why your scumbuddy might be scummy in case the wagon switched to somebody else? That's what it soundss like.

Also, "yeah, but, I'm not scum", isn't a defence, nor a reason of any kind for me to move my vote. Your Appeal to Emotion by telling me that I'm wasting a dayphase (we've got one spare, anyway) is noted.

As far as CB and Snow White go: CB I think is most likely town, I have no reason to suspect him, I will not consider a vote for him today. Snow White I feel is less scummy than both you and bgg, and the fact that you're both voting for her only makes me reinforce the opinion that she's probably town.

[ChannelDelibird]

Also, you only bring CB up when asking me to comment on him. You haven't done so yourself. Why is that?

[Snow White]

@ChannelDelibird. There is no fear of me quicklynching myself. If anything i will be lynched.

@DTF. I have given my defense there should be no more reason for myself to talk about things

too big of a deal for you even when none of us were caring/looking at it.

[CancerBottle]

Further, where is CB in this discussion? Or snow white?

I'm in and out, sorry.

After the Kichirou lynch and the Crazypianist NK, a re-read made me begin to believe Snow White was scummy. I don't like the way she innocently interpreted Bgg--but especially Kichirou's --votes on Kard. Elaboration can be found in my post 266.

However, I haven't ignored CDB's case against DTF. And this case is based on a scummy vote. I suppose that's stronger than my interpretation of Snow White's posts.

You know what, I'll "stir the pot."

Vote: dothfandango

[ChannelDelibird]

Further, where is CB in this discussion? Or snow white?

I misinterpreted this post. Please disregard my post 288.

(That said, what

do

you think of CB, DTF?)

[Snow White]

Just to clarify, not yet dishing out the hammer until DTF responds. If he responds.

[ChannelDelibird]

I will be on holiday for 9 days starting tomorrow morning. I expect to have full internet access where I am going, but on the off chance that I don't, that'll be why I'm not posting (if this is the case I will be trying to find another method of access ASAP). Just so you know.

[dothefandango]

Ok, computer is fixed and I'm ready to go.

I'm willing to let go of Snow White, but to be perfectly honest do not think this unvote is a relaxation of my suspicions. You guys made some good points and I think we need to look further into this.

UNVOTE

... for now.

[dothefandango]

Why didn't you want to say that? What possible reason did you have for keeping it back? Were you trying to hold back reasons why your scumbuddy might be scummy in case the wagon switched to somebody else? That's what it soundss like.

On the off chance Kichirou was scum, and I was pointing fingers at him the whole time, wouldn't that put me up as a target?

[Snow White]

@DTF: Im not intimidated by that "for now".

Pointing out the obvious, you have still failed to explain what you think of CancerBottle, as CDB had previously asked you.

[dothefandango]

To be honest, I have no idea what to think. I don't like him putting me at L-1, obviously, because the only vote now is you [Snow White], and I know you're not going to vote for yourself, so my pressure on you at this point makes no sense.

I see how my actions at Kard can be conceived as scummy, but this is just a bad case of wrong place, wrong time. I don't know how I can explain this enough. I thought I made up for it for not only VOTING for a scum, but being the reason bgg changed his vote to scum (not in convincing him, but for him to drop the hammer like he did based on the stalemate).

If anything, I suppose I should be looking at CDB for suspecting me even though I voted for a scum, but at this point it seems you're either for or against me.

A lot of heat was put on me because I put a townie at L-1. Now, I stand at L-1 and no one jumps at this.

The reason I found Snow White suspicious is what seemed to be a concurrence of what her and Kichirou said. She now claims innocence, but it seems like there are just too many instances of her seemingly being "framed" for this to run true.

[ChannelDelibird]

To be honest, I have no idea what to think. I don't like him putting me at L-1, obviously, because the only vote now is you [Snow White], and I know you're not going to vote for yourself, so my pressure on you at this point makes no sense.

Well, the idea is to make people change their votes, not assume that once someone's voted that's it, there's nothing you can do.

I see how my actions at Kard can be conceived as scummy, but this is just a bad case of wrong place, wrong time. I don't know how I can explain this enough. I thought I made up for it for not only VOTING for a scum, but being the reason bgg changed his vote to scum (not in convincing him, but for him to drop the hammer like he did based on the stalemate).

1) It is possible for scum to vote for their buddies. Your vote on Kichirou wasn't a particularly bad one, I admit, but that doesn't make up for your scummy Kard vote.
2) You don't get to take credit for the Kichirou lynch because it enabled bgg to make a scummy vote (one that was looking to move the game on, not to lynch scum, even though it ended up in the latter). As you say, you didn't *convince* him that Kichirou was scum. I'm not impressed that you think this makes up for your earlier behaviour.

If anything, I suppose I should be looking at CDB for suspecting me even though I voted for a scum, but at this point it seems you're either for or against me.

Yeah, see above, that doesn't make you town, and suspecting you doesn't make me scum, especially since I've backed up my vote with reason.

A lot of heat was put on me because I put a townie at L-1. Now, I stand at L-1 and no one jumps at this.

Context.

You put Kard at lynch-1 for no good reason. You're at lynch-1 because you've earned it. That's why we're not jumping at your situation.

The reason I found Snow White suspicious is what seemed to be a concurrence of what her and Kichirou said. She now claims innocence, but it seems like there are just too many instances of her seemingly being "framed" for this to run true.

As I've said before, I don't put much stock in choices of nightkill because it's a murky WIFOM area, and regarding her interactions with Kichirou...I'm yet to be convinced. I haven't seen anything suspicious enough in their interactions to make me think it's worth looking into before we lynch you.

I'd like you to claim, DTF.

[dothefandango]

I am claiming, right now, Vanilla Townie. I have nothing left to lose.