Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

GIEFF · Post Post #675 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:56 am

camn wrote:You are simply pushing a mislynch, distracting people from actual hunting, and doing it in a clever way that will actually give you some sort of "defense" after my flip (if I am lynched, obv).

Sounds pretty scummy to me. Why do you think I'm town again?

camn wrote:Although I have a town-read on Geiff.. I could EASILY be wrong (it has happened!). . and to mitigate that risk, he should probably die someday. Or convince me of his ability to make the right decisions. (Which wouldn't be that hard, btw.)

What could I do (that isn't that hard) that would convince you of my ability to make the right decisions? Don't tell me you weren't referring to unvoting you... that would be ridiculous. You want to keep pressure on me, and keep me off of you. You tried the truce, but it's obvious that you did NOT do this to stop the quote-war walls (as you claimed), because you got right back into it with Benmage.

So, I am left to conclude that you asked for a truce to stop me pursuing your lynch.

But I never stopped voting for you. And because you already called me townie, you can't threaten me with a vote, or reward me by removing your vote. So you are forced to perform some mental gymnastics claiming your joking, random, "Let's lynch GIEFF because he's good scum" logic STILL applies, even though it's completely backwards now - "Let's lynch GIEFF because he's poor town." You do this JUST so you have something to threaten me with. And something to reward me with (taking away your policy-lynch on me if I will only "show you I can make the right decisions"). You even go so far as to show me that it wouldn't be that hard. Which means you WANT me to do it. And if my case is as crappy and scummy as you claim, it SHOULD be really hard for me to convince you I can make the right decisions, shouldn't it?

confirm vote: camn

moar camn votes

Zachrulez · Post Post #676 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:56 am

Once I get on lunch, I will give your Camn case a look and try to get a post up letting you know what I think of it Gieff.

GIEFF · Post Post #677 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:57 am

camn wrote:That it why I support my lynch.

No. You "support" your lynch because you tied your vote to BenMage's because you would rather prove a point to him than try to find scum. Much like you would rather look townie than try to find scum, but at least looking townie does have some benefit to the town.

Zachrulez · Post Post #678 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:57 am

I do find Camn agreeing with BM's town read on you strange though.

GIEFF · Post Post #679 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:58 am

Zachrulez wrote:Once I get on lunch, I will give your Camn case a look and try to get a post up letting you know what I think of it Gieff.

Thanks, Zach. I would appreciate it, especially with an open mind.

camn · Post Post #680 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:00 am

GIEFF wrote:Don't tell me you weren't referring to unvoting you... that would be ridiculous.

That is what I am telling you.
Thank you for the insult.
Feel free to ignore it now, and pretend I never said it.

GIEFF wrote: So, I am left to conclude that you asked for a truce to stop me pursuing your lynch.

Actually, I was trying to save this day. But I don't think it is going to happen.
I actually WANT to die. I want to be lynched.
So once again, your conclusions are wrong.

GIEFF wrote:And if my case is as crappy and scummy as you claim, it SHOULD be really hard for me to convince you I can make the right decisions, shouldn't it?

Did I claim it was scummy?
I think it is crappy, yes, but scummy... not really.
And yes, It will be hard.

camn · Post Post #681 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:08 am

GIEFF wrote:
camn wrote:That it why I support my lynch.
No. You "support" your lynch because you tied your vote to BenMage's because you would rather prove a point to him than try to find scum. Much like you would rather look townie than try to find scum, but at least looking townie does have some benefit to the town.

Actually.. I would rather die than continue this game.
I don't care about looking townie at all.
But please.. continue ignoring what I actually say and inserting what YOU think in its place. that works.

MORE CAMN VOTES PLEASE!!!!!!

I have felt this way for a while.. but I felt bad about getting suicidal. (they say suicide is anti-town)
But I honestly have come to the conclusion that my death will HELP the town, by shedding light onto the incredibly POOR state of you and BenMage's so-called "logic"... and by taking away the distraction of your unhealthy obsession with me.

If I were a dayVig I might have even vigged me

GIEFF · Post Post #682 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:13 am

camn wrote:That is what I am telling you.
Thank you for the insult.
Feel free to ignore it now, and pretend I never said it.

There are scum lurking out there. They will lie about things that are as clear as day in order to look scummy. I will ALWAYS assume the most logical explanation, because if we all just blindly trusted any explanation someone gave, how would you ever find lying scum?

You can choose to either:

Explain what you meant when you said it wouldn't be that hard for me to convince you I can make the right decisions
Realize that there's nothing you can say that makes more sense than the assumption you were, and continue to play the suicide angle.
- If you really did mean something besides unvoting you, and you really are town (both of which are doubtful), then please, for ALL of us - just explain what you meant. How could I convince you that I can make the right decision, and why would this be easy to do?
  
  Also, camn - another glaringly obvoius inconsistency: you first claim your vote for yourself was because you are following BenMage. But now you claim it's because you are suicidal. That is inconsistent. And the latter explanation is obviously false, as you only switched once Benmage did. If you think my obsession with you is unhealthy, your inconsistencies, lies, and question-dodging sure don't seem designed to cure me of it.

alexhans · Post Post #683 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:15 am

POST EXCLUSIVELY MADE FOR SENSFAN SO HE DOESN'T CONVENIENTLY IGNORE IT

Prologue

SensFan... I fucking explained your vote....

I explained a whole lot more than you.

So quit lying.
------------------------

Sensfan... why wouldnt you bother to read 535? It's not even mine...

Alexhans 566 wrote:SensFan voted Mastin when he hadn't talked previously about him. He didn't include him in his list (jammer, Alexhans, GIEFF) until there was a good waggon against him.
SensFan didn't give reasons. SensFan used other's reasons. Claimed it as playstyle.
SensFan stated that BM, camn and KMD (even though he just got in) are all townie.

Are you going to ignore this again?

SensFan wrote:This camn wagon is the worst wagon I've ever seen.

If camn is lynched today, I will consider everyone off the wagon to be confirmed for the rest of the game, since there's no way that many Town will have voted her.

HOW THE HELL IS THIS DIFFERENT FROM MY NutSoCaps? Are you threatening everyone of being scum? Isn't this totally ridiculous? As you couldn't know her alignment?

SensFan wrote: Alex or Mastin needs to be lynched today.

lol... You were talking about Mastin, jammer and GIEFF but now you talk about me first... Annoyed with my vote aren't you?
Your point about me is bullshit because I explained my case on you. You just don't want to read it.

So, Mastin for lurking? What about Cephir? what about DDD?

SensFan wrote: Seriously, I think most of the Scum are working hard to divert the Mastin wagon right now. I'm looking at the people that were fighting over him earlier as well: GIEFF, Alex, someone else.

How many scum are there? 3? then what do you mean most of the scum? They're not big enough to influence much of this game then... 3/15 66% of TOWN players must agree on a lynch and that's that. GIEFF voted Mastin if you recall. I was the one that didn't like the waggon on him for playstyle reasons.
Pretty much the same frigging defence that KMD is offering about Camn. You're just naive enough to think that CAPS make everything different. No, guys... I did it to be noticed... And I certainly was.

BUt you seriously need scumhunting 101 if you think that I would call attention upon myself without need.

As I said.
If we were scumbuddies. I would not link myself to him by defending him.
If he was town... Why in hell do I need to buddy him like that when he had expressed he thought me as town? I didn't need that.

so cut with it.

alexhans · Post Post #684 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:17 am

For all of you who don't like wall posts... Imagine this as several posts for several people.... You can JUST SKIM those who are not directed at you if you are so annoyed with my posting style.

-------------------------------

Camn

Camn wrote: Objectively, I would think (via the KMD Gambit) that scum would jump on a crap-case on a townie...... especially if it was presented well... so I could be scum.
Of course, if YOU are scum, and part of a 2-man team.. then that obviously WOULDN'T happen.

What other situations could explain 12-14ish townies, and 1-3ish scum, pretty much ignoring your case on me?

is this serious?
626: anti town. THIS is worst than my stream of conciousness posts.
-------------------------------

@VP:

why would you want to shut up KMD? She has just joined the game. I won't die for disagreeing with your unsupported enough cases on Masin ,though his lurking is making me suspect him more and more his 4 votes that caused the NutSoCaps where based on his play about the NK SPECULATION!!! DO YOU NOT GET THAT? No, I supposed it's amazingly hard to understand it when you're all so worried about looking scummy.

@VP: You've voted GIEFF, BM and Mastin in this game... then me... how have I outgained them in your opinion to be voted?
--------------------------------

DDD:

1) What do you think my case on SensFan? (No, it's not asking for approval, I want to see where you stand)
2) What do you think about BM's trap?
3) What do you make of Camn's attitude? Still think it's all Camn-like and therefore a null tell or what?
4) Is buddying a scumtell? Who do you think buddies who?
5) Don't you think that your attitude of not playing unless you're asked for is totally anti-town? or sub-standard play?
--------------------------------

Battle Mage

BM wrote: Yep. Either that, or it is how you said it was originally-that you didnt have enough clout within the scumteam to determine the kill. Sad, eh?

yeah... that was my theory too, to make it all fit.
--------------------------------

Zach

666 Zach: Zach, you're not playing enough. How am I supposed to read you if I don't interact with you in any way...?
None of the things I say were accusations of being scum... I just wanted to know how you reacted. But to every question you reacted at me as if I were framing you or something.
And for the rest of your sentence... whatever man...
--------------------------------

Everyone

Referring to my wall posts... I've shorten them down and organized them. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I'm just playing this game so it has my full attention. What am I supposed to do? Let you go over the same things again and again? Let you leave so many players untouched and opinion free? I need to find scum. As to now, I'm suspicious of certain people but not set on a lynch just yet so I need to keep going. I can not rest till I'm really sure.

alexhans · Post Post #685 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:21 am

And

Camn

... voting yourself does nothing else than confusing me...

if you were town... it would never be a good strategy to lynch yourself unless you were going for a trade with someone of 1 after the other if the first doesn't flip scum (Wich seems also bad because both could be town) so, at this point, it only hurts us.

1) Are you town and trying to make a point by voting yourself or do you EARNESTLY believe it will help? why are we gonna gain something from your lynch if you're town? SensFan's defense of you is just a threat and a lie. So I need a real reason.

2) The other theory I have is that you're pulling a gambyt to look town... the "look, she is willing to die, so she probably isn't scum" one....

Do you see why is most unhelpful?

Zachrulez · Post Post #686 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:25 am

Alright

To point 1 in Gieff's case on page 22

Yeah, this seems off. I read around this point a bit and the summary of what I see from it is that you made note of her buddying you. She claimed she likes to buddy and challenged you to meta her on that point, and then apparently voted you for doing so. (Yikes!)

Point 2: Is Camn a known lurker lyncher? If so, this point could have merits, especially if she has actively avoided voting lurkers. (Which would need to be verified with an iso read probably)

Point 3: I do see this point. Though I have seen games where townies play this way. Out of all three points in the case, this one is probably the weakest IMO.

It seems so long ago, but I do believe Camn hit my radar around the same time I started suspecting Mastin. I will have to go through and see if I can remember why I found her suspicious early on.

I still favor lynching Mastin at this point.

Benmage · Post Post #687 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:27 am

SensFan wrote: If camn is lynched today, I will consider everyone off the wagon to be confirmed for the rest of the game, since there's no way that many Town will have voted her.

What makes you think she’s sooo town??

It’s hard to get a read from your limited contribution. But this little tidbit makes me think you may just be scum.

camn wrote:
GIEFF wrote:I forgot to mention:

Anybody on the camn-wagon will be viewed as cleared town by me the rest of the game,
Even when I flip town?

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s probably a duck. It’s not our fault if you turn out to be a chicken. **(knows people won’t get analogy)**

GIEFF wrote: And if Sens REALLY believes that a camn-town-lynch means ALL scum are on the wagon, there is no way he would say it out loud. If it were true (and camn were town), saying it out loud completely ruins it, and ensure at least one scum will keep off the wagon. I would think that sacrificing one townie to confirm 6 townies would be a great deal. Why did you ruin this, Sens, if you really believe it?

Well naturally 8 scum in this game would be a bit much.

camn wrote: I actually WANT to die. I want to be lynched.
So once again, your conclusions are wrong.

It’s so utterly lame when people do this. Games aren’t always going to be lovey-dovey…so lame.

camn wrote: Actually.. I would rather die than continue this game.
I don't care about looking townie at all.
But please.. continue ignoring what I actually say and inserting what YOU think in its place. that works.

MORE CAMN VOTES PLEASE!!!!!!

I have felt this way for a while.. but I felt bad about getting suicidal. (they say suicide is anti-town)
But I honestly have come to the conclusion that my death will HELP the town, by shedding light onto the incredibly POOR state of you and BenMage's so-called "logic"... and by taking away the distraction of your unhealthy obsession with me.

If I were a dayVig I might have even vigged me

Please replace out, get some strand of dignity. Stop ruining our game.

alexhans wrote: 2) The other theory I have is that you're pulling a gambyt to look town... the "look, she is willing to die, so she probably isn't scum" one....

This or she’s just letting her emotions get to her. She should just replace out.

GIEFF · Post Post #688 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:31 am

No, she shouldn't replace out. camn, I am not insulting you - I just don't believe you, because I think you're scum. And scum lie. There is no need to make anything personal, there is no need for your feelings to be hurt, and there is no need for you to give up. Just answer my simple question:

What did you mean when you said:

camn wrote:Although I have a town-read on Geiff.. I could EASILY be wrong (it has happened!). . and to mitigate that risk, he should probably die someday.
Or convince me of his ability to make the right decisions. (Which wouldn't be that hard, btw.)

It seems fairly obvious to me that you are talking about unvoting you (as that's the only decision of mine you have claimed is so crappy). You claim that I am wrong, but don't give a counter-explanation. Please give one now.

VP Baltar · Post Post #689 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:32 am

ATTENTION TOWN: WE'RE NOT LYNCHING CAMN TODAY.

More votes on people who are actually scum: Alex, Mastin or Bowel Movements.

I'll address the rest of this crap later.

Benmage · Post Post #690 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:34 am

@VP

What makes Camn town for you?

Battle Mage · Post Post #691 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:38 am

Unvote

while im at work. Will respond to the bs when i get back and re-review.

BM

Zachrulez · Post Post #692 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:42 am

alexhans wrote:
Zach

666 Zach: Zach, you're not playing enough. How am I supposed to read you if I don't interact with you in any way...?
None of the things I say were accusations of being scum... I just wanted to know how you reacted. But to every question you reacted at me as if I were framing you or something.
And for the rest of your sentence... whatever man...

I have as many posts as you Alex, I don't know what you're trying to get at that I'm not playing enough. I find it disturbing that I'm already being called a lurker. Is 50 posts at this point not enough?

You wanted to see how I'd react to false points on me? How do you expect me to react? How would YOU react? Your foundation is crumbling before you even started laying the bricks. How can you justify your actions when you are making false points on me? It's ridiculous.

Oh I was wrong, but look at how you reacted to it! *change subject to new point.*

alexhans · Post Post #693 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:43 am

VP Baltar

: Stop pushing a ghost case...

state your case on me on 200 words or less... well... if you can.... because... we both know you have nothing and are just pushing and pushing ignoring me when I talk to you.
---------------------------
I'm gonna do some ISO-reads and see what I can found... problem is... some people are really hard to read due to their low posting and involvement so far in this game...

alexhans · Post Post #694 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:49 am

ZACH

You actually have MORE posts than I do... So? Does it mean that you've given you've participated on more levels of this game than me? No. Also, note that a great deal of your posts are directed at me thanks to my interactions with you.

Zach wrote: You wanted to see how I'd react to false points on me? How do you expect me to react? How would YOU react? Your foundation is crumbling before you even started laying the bricks. How can you justify your actions when you are making false points on me? It's ridiculous.

I was wrong about you buddying BM. Just that. So stop acting like a beaten up child.

You put me on 2nd place becauase I asked you questions or talked about you and because I defended Mastin when his waggon had only crap reasons (save his auto clearing that only few mentioned).

Why haven't you called SensFan or KMD on their Camn defenses? Or do CAPS shock you?

GIEFF · Post Post #695 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:00 am

VP Baltar.

Please read my last few posts about camn and my case on page 22 before proclaiming in large bold font that camn is not a lynch-target. She is obv-scum.

VP Baltar · Post Post #696 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:08 am

Dearest GIEFF,

You and camn are both town. I've read your case. It's weak sauce and you can't let it go. There are some points that are mildly valid, but nothing that warrants a lynch. Meanwhile, Mastin is scum and you know it.

Yours in spirit,

VP Baltar

--------------------------

@ alex--Your unwarranted defense of Mastin, high fluff ratio, and general pushing of horrible cases make you lynchalicious.

That's way under 200 words. What do I win?

Debonair Danny DiPietro · Post Post #697 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:15 am

alexhans wrote:
DDD:

1) What do you think my case on SensFan? (No, it's not asking for approval, I want to see where you stand)
2) What do you think about BM's trap?
3) What do you make of Camn's attitude? Still think it's all Camn-like and therefore a null tell or what?
4) Is buddying a scumtell? Who do you think buddies who?
5) Don't you think that your attitude of not playing unless you're asked for is totally anti-town? or sub-standard play?

1) Hard to tell where your case actually is, I'm trying to find it in your ISO and it's just a mess. Anyways, either you've never played or followed a game Sensfan is in or you've conveniently chosen to disregard that experience because I don't really see anything out of the ordinary for Sens. Does it clear Sens? Hardly, but the things you're complaining about are for more indicative of player than alignment.

2) Already talked about this in my ISO 6, of course it's easy to lose something like that between everyone else's wall posts of doom.

3) I want to see how camn's behavior continues to play out before I comment and thus skew the interactions.

4) Scum buddying scum; extremely rarely. Scum buddying town, quite common. I see obvious connections of Sens-BM, KMD-Camn, and Alex-Mastin so far in this game.

5) You're about the last person in this game who should be criticizing someone's posting habits.

alexhans · Post Post #698 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:15 am

hold on... VP... So I take it that you think I'm scum with Mastin then?

You win nothing because it's a crappy line... crappy lines don't make cases and they definetly don't allow for pushing a lynch as you did.

Zachrulez · Post Post #699 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:15 am

alexhans wrote:
ZACH

You actually have MORE posts than I do... So? Does it mean that you've given you've participated on more levels of this game than me? No. Also, note that a great deal of your posts are directed at me thanks to my interactions with you.

Very well Alex, you are the authority on activity. Have a medal.

alexhans wrote:
Zach wrote: You wanted to see how I'd react to false points on me? How do you expect me to react? How would YOU react? Your foundation is crumbling before you even started laying the bricks. How can you justify your actions when you are making false points on me? It's ridiculous.
I was wrong about you buddying BM. Just that. So stop acting like a beaten up child.

You also characterized my position on NK speculation, charging that I lynched Panzer based on his belief that NK speculation was scummy. My past position on NK speculation has nothing to do with what you tried to pull here.

alexhans wrote:You put me on 2nd place becauase I asked you questions or talked about you and because I defended Mastin when his waggon had only crap reasons (save his auto clearing that only few mentioned).

Who said you were 2nd? The points against Mastin are night kill speculation that he used to argue himself clear, (2 for 1!) and now lurking as he's been asked to address this case on him. What about that is crap?

alexhans wrote:Why haven't you called SensFan or KMD on their Camn defenses? Or do CAPS shock you?

Have they actively tried to derail a Camn wagon? (You can probably argue that VP just pulled that in his latest post.)

Do you see it as my duty to call out Camn's defenders based on the fact that I called you out for defending Mastin even though I don't find Camn as scummy as Mastin?