Newbie 816 - Game over!

[Cirdua]

Yay, first post!

random vote: pancakes

pancakes, yummy

[Cirdua]

Because it preserves a mislynch for a point in the game where we might actually have something to go on?

Firstly, you require 5 votes for a lynch, so a mislynch isn't very likely to occur in the fisrt stages of the day. Usually Day 1 only ends just before deadline because players try to gather as much info as possible to hunt scum.
Secondly, nolynching won't give us anything to go on, while a lynch (even if we lynch a townie) would actually get us somewhere, because when you lynch a townie you can be sure that that person was actually a townie and then you can analyse voting patterns, discussion and stuff like that. A NL would (as otheres have also stated) just give the scum a free lynch.

I'm used to playing with folks who buy into the 'NL day one' school of thought. If that's lunacy here on this board I apologize and will randomly vote someone.

I believe that sometimes, under certain circumstances, a nolynch is the best thing to do. But in a small game like this, it's suicide. Unless you're scum, then a nolynch would be a good thing to happen.

This is his first game on this site so small

FoS: Steve

A word of advise Steve, just randomly vote someone untill someone makes a scumtell. But do not change you're vote every five seconds, that will get you lynched.

[Cirdua]

That vote is really... random and... unexpected

[Cirdua]

But I'm used to NLing at epicmafia.
Vote: No lynch

ok, I'll clarify something here, when you post you're also expected to

read

other people's posts to avoid saying something really stupid, like voting for a nolynch while it's been explained why (in small games) a NL almost always means Suicide/Scum wins. I'll accept the newbie card on this one, but remember that you can't always keep hiding behind it

Alllllrighty then. Unvote: No Lynch.

Very nice explanation, C. Vote: Cirdua.

See, it feels so good to try getting someone lynched doesn't it?

[Cirdua]

unvote, vote Cirdua

who has a trippy picture

jealous because mine has colour?

unvote, Vote:Dramonic

Read his sig, he's advertising for the mob, what more proof do you need

[Cirdua]

Official Vote Count

ElectricBadger - 2 (dramonic, lailai)
Cirdua - 2 (Steve Kulko, tfrench)

lailai - 2 (havingfitz, ElectricBadger)

Why is Lailai in black? Me and EB got the same amount of votes against us.

I've got a question. Why are the days so long? I'd think 7 RL days would be more than enough time.

Read some games on this site, also not everybody can post all the time, some people here have jobs, girlfriends, etc. which prevents them from being online all the time. So if we only have one week to post a lot of people wouldn't be able to actively contribute to the game. A three-week deadline is actually rather short, and when someone reaches a majority the Day will immediatly go into Night phase.

[Cirdua]

Official Vote Count
ElectricBadger - 2 (dramonic, lailai)
Cirdua - 2 (Steve Kulko, tfrench)
lailai - 2 (havingfitz, ElectricBadger)

@ Mod:

Why did you bold Lailai? he's only at L-3, just like me and Badger.

So I can track who was the first to reach that vote count so that I know who the lynch is in case of a tie.

[Cirdua]

unvote, vote: ElectricBadger

yeah, so why are you voting for EB?

RVS?

are you happy with him being at lynch -2 then?

Are you trying to skip Day 1? Are you perhaps scum trying to get a free NK?

@Lailai: So you're putting me to L-2, may I also ask why or are you planning on keeping your reasons for yourself (which is

not

a good idea)

[Cirdua]

ill

unvote

and vote

No lynch

let's see where we stand tomorrow

One townie less and still nothing to go on to hunt scum, that's where we'll stand tomorrow. You should have got the message by now

unvote, vote:pancakes

I believe only scum would still try to NL after it has been told by all experienced players that a NL would mean a free NK for the scum.

[Cirdua]

FOS Cirdua. The rush to a new bandwagon up to L-1 implies scum are jumping on it, and that implies they don't like the existing bandwagon.

I just saw Pancakes behavior as suspicious and acted as such, that's kinda the point about mafia. Maybe you didn't notice but there was there whole discusison about why a NL is pro-mafia and pancakes uhm, voted NL. And with existing bandwagon I take it you mean the random votes that are still upon me?

Maybe I should make something clear. People: don't lynch someone before they can react. Bandwagoning just to lynch someone serves no point, this game is about gaining information to determine whether or not someone is scum. Just lynching someone is almost as bad as nolynching, a bandwagon is meant to put pressure on someone to get a reaction and/or some discussion going. If you still think that person is scum, go ahead and lynch him. Then you can use your newly obtained knowledge about the person's true alignment to reanalyze the discussion and use that for Day 2 discussion.
In short:
NL=bad
quick-lynch=bad
thinking before acting=good
this must be one of the longest and most boring things I ever wrote...

[Cirdua]

Actually, we should not put someone at L-1 until we are fairly certain that they are scum. In fact, while we have two scum floating around, L-2 isn't safe either because they can both pile on if they're not both already on it.

Uhm, do you really expect scum to be as stupid as to jump on a L-2 bandwagon to force a lynch? I mean, if two people were to suddenly jump on a wagon without much reasoning causing a hammer that would be seen as very suspicious. They'd probably get lynched Day 2.

[Cirdua]

Cird, between myself and Adel, whose points make more sense/are more logical?

Both of you made some good arguments. Although I mostly agree with you about not linking players, unless there are some serious arguments to do so.

This can turn into WIFOM really really quickly. Because you would argue that scum would not be that stupid. And if scum actually did do that, they would argue the same thing. I'm just saying what's could happen--this is a newbie game.

That's not what I meant exactly, if two people were to quickly jump a wagon they would be seen as suspicious, whether they are scum or not so they will be lynched and/or pressurized. If I wanted to go all WIFOM on you guys I would say that you and Adel can't both be scum because of your argueing and that's why you two must be scum trying to cover each other up. This would be so obvious though that you can't be scum, which means you're scum. Whih means you can't be scum, which means you must be scum...
Can you see how the circle would go on and on and we still wouldn't know whether you're scum or not. I'm not saying you and Abel are scum, I was just providing an example of WIFOM so everyone knows what it means (for those too lazy to go to the wiki and look it up)

While I was writing this I noticed something changed

Adel has requested replacement site-wide.

I wonder why he replaced.

[Cirdua]

Cird your vote is still on pancakes do you still believe that his action was scummy?

Maybe not that scummy, he was a newbie and, judging by his absence, one not too interested in this game (maybe because of our no-nolynch way of playing). He's getting replaced anyway so I'll

unvote

.

Also, you don't need to make a new post for every person you want to cast suspicion on, you can just say something like "@ Pancakes" to indicate who you are going to question next. I've noticed you did your best to cast suspicion on almost everyone, are you trying to avoid getting the players' attention on yourself? Just asking.

[Cirdua]

vote:Imkingdavid

You'll note that I specified that I was only doing this because popular opinion was for it, and I figured they would do it anyway, so I might as well get their thoughts on the matter. I still don't think that it helps town.

Although neither does their tunneling me

.

If you don't think it'll help town, don't do it. Saying something like "I don't think this is the right thing to do but I'll do it anyways because..." won't really help if you're trying to convince people you're town.

It wasn't that I was not suspecting some response, it's that I wasn't expecting Adel to tunnel me continuously

after I had already provided reasoning. I gave my opinion and my reasoning and he continued showing me just how stupid my opinion must be (even though it still makes perfect sense in my head). Just for the record, we've been going on like this for numerous pages, but no one has actually countered my opinion, other than saying that I am arrogant. If you don't agree with me, that's fine, but don't personally attack me. Attack my idea. That's perfectly fine.

I haven't had much of a chance to scum hunt recently because:
1) V/LA (previous and upcoming)
2)

Adel, zwet and princess continuing to tunnel me

3) Real life stuff

About the

italic

parts, I can't help but notice how you keep complaining about people tunneling you. It's the only argument you seem to be using, apart from complaining about people calling your posts arrogant. Somehow you have avoided to give any real suspicions or arguments in your posts and have instead been going on and on about how unfair it is that everyone seems to be targetting you, having people argue against you should not hinder scumhunting. You also seem to become very offensive even if someone asks only a small question.

the deadline is close... I'd prefer either a Tfrench or IKD lynch, but if by sunday we're not close to lynching either I'll embark on the highest wagon.

I don't really like the sound of that,this means you will either be easily manipulated by scum to vote someone or you're scum and this is an attempt to have some arguments to protect you in case you lynch a townie...

I prefer lynching someone seemingly innocent over not lynching

I agree to this, not lynching won't help us.

Why would you lynch someone you think is innocent?

Uhm, where you sleeping when we had this whole discussion about why lynching a townie is better than a NL? I also believe a bandwagon was formed because of it, or was that just my imagination?

[Cirdua]

but would you facilitate a lynch against someone you felt was Innocent? Wouldn't you consider it better to keep pushing for a lynch that you felt had a good chance of being scum?

That depends, if I were scum I'd push an innocent lynch. But when I'm town I rather lynch scum. If there is no particulary scummy player, I would rather lynch a townie then lynching noone. Then if we lose we can atleast say to ourselves "Oh well, atleast I tried"

If townies will push for any lynch at all then a mislynch tells us nothing, because town would be acting just like mafia.

But if we were to lynch, say, ImKingDavid and he turns out town, that would atleast give us some leads to start with, we'd probably question whoever was on that bandwagon, pressurize a bit, someone makes a scumtell (due to the pressure perhaps?), and another one, and there is our Day 2 lynch. Sounds like a solid plan, no?

because lynching is the best source of information.

again, this only goes up when you lynch someone with atleast 6 posts of discussion, a completely random lynch is one of the worst things that could happen to us.

I'm not pushing for a quicklynch, I'm pushing for people to vote and get on one of the wagons instead of spreading the votes so broadly

Quicklynching=people voting on an existing wagon without thinking about it instead of spreading their votes in attempt to hunt scum.

I'd rather have 6 town and no info than 5 town and no info

Let me get some numbers:
-If the town would now form a bandwagon to lynch someone the chances of lynching scum are 2/9
-If the town would not form a bandwagon to lynch someone the chances of lynching scum are 0/9
You don't need to be a genius to figure out that 2/9>0/9 so I'd rather lynch someone.
You could counter this by saying something about the chance to lynch a townie, but in either case atleast one townie would die (unless a doc protects someone ofcourse)

The only mafia interference we'll have is if we try to lynch one of theirs.

Or if we're about to lynch a townie and they feel the need to jump (believe me, some of the newbies here are capable of doing that even after all our discussion about how stupid that would be)

[Cirdua]

5. Apologizes for his last comment, votes for cirdua based on

her

avatar.

Last time I checked, I believe I was still male, I might be wrong but I don't think that's the case.

[Cirdua]

I wonder, if Dramonic was lynched the moment of the deadline, but the Day only ends when the mod posts a dead scene, and since night begins when the town kills someone that would mean Dramonic has been hanging there for hours by now, without dying . Which must be very painfull.

[Cirdua]

One last thing I wanted to say just before the thread was locked

Please note that this is twilight, as deadline has been reached but no death scene has been posted. Note Vel's rule #8.

8. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; the lynched player may

not

post during twilight but all other living players may continue to post.

which is partly in contradiction with rule nr 9 stating that players who are lynched are allowed one bah! post.

9. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post except for a brief “Bah!”-type post.

ElectricBadger, according to the rule stated above you are allowed one last "bah!" post, you could tell us where you want to be burried !

One last thing I wanted to say just before the thread was locked

You weren't killed last night.

You sound awfully confident, like when you shouted

DEATH TO DRAMONIC SCUM

and

YAY! We killing scummalicious!

FoS: zwetschenwasser

[Cirdua]

EBWOP: just saw I copy/pasted something wrong into the quote tags

...

One last thing I wanted to say just before the thread was locked

...

Should be

...

Good morning folks! It is obvious what needs to be done here. Vote: ImKingDavid

...

[Cirdua]

ElectricBadger, according to the rule stated above you are allowed one last "bah!" post, you could tell us where you want to be burried !

*Makes deathly gurgling noises* perhaps a nice spot overlooking the sea? also, I'd like a casket made of pure gold, because you CAN take it with you. *more gurgles*

Been a pleasure playing with y'all, catch you in another game!

I didn't really get that first part due to all that gurgling, did you just say you wanted to be thrown into the sea in a sack filled with mold? And what about that ban? hello? Oh, he's dead

[Cirdua]

I find the fact that you are pushing for an ikd lynch without discussing other possible scum very scummy.

[Cirdua]

I find the fact that you are pushing for an ikd lynch without discussing other possible scum very scummy.

Maybe if you point out the "other possible scum" he'll change his mind.

With other possible scum I meant general discussing about yesterday's events (lynch, NK). Zwet is trying to rush a lynch again without considering the option of someone he targeted not being scum.

You weren't killed last night.

I think he means yesterday as in Day 1. Because if "You weren't killed last night" is an actual case, then what is this game coming to?

I am an erratic player, who does things most might consider unnatural, unacceptable, or just plain stupid when it comes to mafia related things

It could be considered erratic, unnatural, unacceptable

and

plain stupid to complain about not having NK-ed the person you wanted to kill (although it would be rather stupid as scum to kill the person you've been having arguments with). Even if you're not scum and just think ikd's scummy because no one killed him last night.

[Cirdua]

purple princess and ikd are obvious scum buddies.

Why? Because princess doesn't agree with everything you say? Because she doesn't support your "case" against ikd, the only reason you'v egiven us to lynch him is "he isn't lynched/killed yet". Correct me if I'm wrong but that doesn't seem to be a good reason to lynch someone.

I wonder, am I scum too now because I don't blindly follow you?

Also, Manzar asked you some questions, maybe you would care to answer them.

Zwets, from what I can read in your ISO post 6 you stated that IKD was scummy for:
1. insisting teaching points were lucid and helpful
2. he was acting defensively
3. He was acting sarcastically.
Are these the only three reasons you find IKD scummy?

[Cirdua]

I just did. Did you see? It was a trap to get him to slip with his perfect attitude. AND IT WORKED SO WELL. muhahaha!

What are you talking about? A trap? So annoying someone with statements like "you two must be scum because one of you defended the other one against my ridiculous and stupid accusations that aren't helping anyone at all!" untill they get angry at you is your idea for scumhunting?

And if you're trying to appear town, stop the evil laughing, it's not really something that will win you other people's trust

[Cirdua]

This is getting awfully close to WIFOM

[Cirdua]

I used my playstyle to my advantage to get people to get mad at me.

Yeah, getting everyone mad at you is the best way of finding scum and convincing the town to lynch'em. . People getting mad at you is really... advantageous...

[Cirdua]

Cird haven't heard from you lately what do you make of zwets arguments about a princess ikd scum team?

I'm sorry for being so silent, but I didn't really had anything new to comment on the zwet-ikd discussion and I didn't want to repeat everything others had already said. It's also been a busy week (school is about to begin )
I don't think the chance of PP and ikd both being scum is very high, I don't know if there is anything as Too Obvious but I don't think one scum member would attract attention to him/her to defend the other one. Unless some other people are also defending that scum member but they still wouldn't come forward in such an obvious manner. I don't think that defending someone against arguments like "you're scum because you ain't dead and you got mad at me for annoying you" can be seen as scummy. I also don't like it how zwets is indeed tunneling ikd and PP to the extent of dismissing all other discussion as "townie-vs-townie" disputes. His weird gameplay isn't helping either. I'm starting to wonder if zwet even looked at the Being a Good IC wiki page.

Where in this game is anyone getting any real solid evidence?

Oh there are enough ways of gaining solid evidence:If someone gets killed his alignment is revealed. If you're a cop you can investigate people, which will reveal their alignment. If you're scum you know who isn' t scum and with the F11 setup they can even know if there are two or only one power roles in the game.

[Cirdua]

I'm not answering your questions because I don't understand them

don't understand them? what's so difficult about them? Maybe you misread them so I'll post them anew

Is there any reason why you needed to make sure everyone knew he (Adel) was a scumhunting master?

Anyway, what was your aim from your post when you said, "as you continue to insist that your "teaching points" were helpful and lucid".

Zwets how does IKD being alive constitute a good reason for his lynch?

Zwets, from what I can read in your ISO post 6 you stated that IKD was scummy for:
1. insisting teaching points were lucid and helpful
2. he was acting defensively
3. He was acting sarcastically.
Are these the only three reasons you find IKD scummy?

Zwets do you plan on explaining your case for IKD and Princess being scum buddies? (this is a more polite way of saying: Explain yourself, now!)

purple princess and ikd are obvious scum buddies.

Why?

Would you care to elaborate on why you think I am scum?

is this omgus because I voted for you?

do you think anyone is going to belive you when you just write one line on who you think is scum?

I don't have much time so I put them all in one quote, see Post 360 if you want to know who wrote them. I don't see any of these question as especially difficult to answer, so I can't imagine how you could have trouble with it.

Interesting. The peanut gallery is preferring to watch instead of vote.

"peanut gallery" is that an insult?

[Cirdua]

CIRDUA HAVINGFITZ OTHER PEOPLE COMMENT ON WHAT IS TAKING PLACE, don't just lurk and watch.

I know I haven't posted that much recently (partially because school has just begun, but also because I don't want to repeat everything that has already been said, because of timezone differences most of the "active" posting phases happen in the late evening or when I'm sleeping) I'll try to be a bit more active from now on. But because of your argument with IKD and tendency of dismissing anything else ass townie-vs-townie, hunting for other scum is a bit difficult. And there are 2 scum in this game, so there's a high chance of someone (scum) to slip by unnoticed.

[Cirdua]

So give me some time to look at HF vs. Cird and let me see what I come up with.

and I have no clue what you're talking about until you do.

I bet zwet doesn't have a clue either, unless he's cop which would put us into a completely different situation...

@zwet: deadline is close and you're at L-1, if you're cop and got a guilty result on IKD, just say so. In any case you should try to explain why you want IKD dead. And don't say something like "I've explained myself enough/in previous posts" just give us your case against IKD in one post.

Can you do that?

(oops, almost asked a yes-or-no question)

[Cirdua]

@IKD...what do you mean HF vs Cird?

Didn't I ask that already?... Oh, for some reason the part where I asked that didn't got through, weird. Very strange since the rest of the message got through...

would you care to claim zwetschenwasser?

Uhm, zwet already said he wasn't cop, that means he's doc or townie (or scum ofcourse) but a doc wouldn't attract so much attention to himself (although, seeing how he has played so far I wouldn't be surprised)

And uhm, these two sentences seem to be in slight contradiction to each other:

think I am just having a change of heart

I'm willing to hammer zwetschenwasser before the deadline,

That shows how active I've been in this game.

That's sarcasm, I presume.

[Cirdua]

well, zwet, so you have any last 'bah'-post to make?

@mod:could you please remove one of havingfitz's double posts

[Cirdua]

I knew Manzcar was up to no good when I saw his post

Cird and CP do you get the same feeling?

Manzar's been asking for confirmation by other players since the beginning, But it was covered up quite well so I was still searching his posts for evidence, since just saying someone's scum based on a feeling usually doesn't end well. AARGH. If I had just posted my thoughts... I would've ended like zwet.

Anyway, good game scum. btw, was there any power role in this game?

[Cirdua]

If only princess hadn't voted that quickly in lylo. Then maybe we could've won the game. the whole zwet-ikd argument didn't really help us either. We practically started day 3 with very little to go with since all discussion during this game was mainly focused around 2 arguments, some others did pop up but they faded away.

[Cirdua]

Now that the game is over, do we have to wait for a confirmation by the mod (death scene) before we can say anything about this game (like: oh dang, I was a townie but I lost) or updating a win-loss record?

[Cirdua]

I PM'ed him, he'll come soon

[Cirdua]

No way, Manzcar and crazypianist were scum!?! That was unexpected.
Oh, I see I was roleblocked Night 2, were you just doing that so your nightactions were over or did you have some kind of reason for that?

[Cirdua]

I actually wanted to kill you

I'll just take that as a compliment