Boost Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[Ether]

Mostly. (I'd prefer not to elaborate if I can help it.) Do you have any specific concerns about my alignment from my play?

That post was referring to Mastin. (After OGML's recent display--I swear, I could have claimed cop with a fucking guilty on Kise and I'd be deflecting from Mastin--I was kind of in a bad mood.)

Mini 771 is my most recently completed game as scum. Newbie 790 as town. (There are more games on my Wikiscum profile, though I'm almost never scum.) My town play isn't always as strong as it was there, but it's still impossible for me to fake for any extended length of time.

[MissTake]

Thank you for the links. I won't be able to read them in depth until tomorrow. I have work in... seven hours.

Honestly, from the way that you have been conducting yourself, you seem rather town. However, my opinion of you (more specifically your role) is a little tainted by who you're replacing.

It does seem as though you're legitimately scum hunting, but just like with every other players there are a few things that raise red flags. I'm withholding a solid conclusion until after I read those games, and see a little more from you.

But, I _do_ want a little more clarification as to what makes you so dead sure that Kise is scum. From what I have seen (yet again, sorry folks, skimming galore until tomorrow when I boot the roomie out on his butt so I can have my living room back) it seems as though you're relying too heavily on the fact that you know Patrick in real life. I understand that since you know him, you

know

that he wouldn't like the role, but that really isn't cementing everything for me. Does that make sense?

[Ether]

Nope.

[Kmd4390]

Yes, i disagree. The numbers speak for themselves. Take into account the role of scum as an INFORMED minority, i think it's probably 50-50 at best, and that still isnt great for town. With 3 boosts a day, scum should have no trouble getting 1 and staying out of the limelight. With only 1 a day, if scum want it, they will be far more likely to have to fight for it.

I'm just generally sceptical about the Boost mechanic. Has anyone claimed results from boosts yesterday?

BM

Hmm. Guess you're right that scum can influence it in that way. Still, boosting 2 town, like you say we'll do statistically, is beneficial.

Look. If we boost one person, we have 2 possibilities:
1) We boost scum.
2) We give scum a NK target.

Neither is good.

[MissTake]

Trying to think of a way to word this... (Eloquence goes out the window at twelve thirty in the morning, sorry.)

Since you know Patrick in real life, you think that Kise's claim is bullshit because he wouldn't assign such a role, correct?

We're supposed to accept this claim because you know him?

It's almost too easy for you to come in and say, "I know Patrick, and I know that he's scum because his claim

is

bullshit." when you could easily be scum using your personal relationship with Patrick as cover.

Personally, I think/thought that Kise's claim was asinine, but I don't see anything about it (other than the way that it was done) that wreaks of bullshit. But, I'm going off of memory. I'll be re-reading all of that once I get the time to tomorrow.

I'm not directly (or even indirectly) calling you scummy, but I'm not falling all over myself in awe of your towny-ness.

[Ether]

Yep.

Exactly.

No, it's very difficult for me to do much of anything as scum. I lose all my nerve under that horrible alignment.

I actually don't mind the way it was done. But he's still scum.

Yes you are.

-

I could make a case on Kise based on stuff he's done after I called him out, even though it's all secondary to the part where he lied. about. his. role. I'm pretty sure I've pointed all this out already:

From what I remember, all of his interactions with Mastin were pretty bad. To be fair, I haven't read any of Day 2 from before I replaced in yet, but he's certainly nothing impressive on Day 1.

Immediately upon his return, he says something about a Kmd/OGML scumgroup (1016). Doesn't acknowledge the obvious obstacle--that those two have been against Mastin--the guy he's voting--the whole game. Doesn't draw attention to his Mastin vote at all. He maintains this later when pressed, brushing it off with a "but there's more than one scum" (1063) while avoiding the heart of this issue.

In 1063, he also tries to goad me into targeting him in the event that I have a nightchoice. This is rolefishing; if I do have a night action, me agreeing to take him up on his offer would be an obvious trap. He'd nightkill me, I'd be a dead (hypothetical) power role and therefore a good nightkill, and I wouldn't have proven a thing. But even outside of this conspiracy, it's obviously not a mindset a real PGO would have. If he thinks I'm town, which he appears to in spite of everything, then he should be begging me not to sacrifice my (still hypothetical) role that way.

[Ether]

Kmd, can you help me lynch Kise tomorrow?

[Kise]

If he thinks I'm town, which he appears to in spite of everything

........
O rly?

[Kise]

Either tunneling scum

, or soon-to-be-disappointed townie.

Only way I'm dying w/o scum dying is if I'm either lynched or NK'd by a town-aligned killing role. So,

anyone suggesting lynching me automatically makes me think they're scum

looking for alternate ways to deal with me.

[Kmd4390]

Kmd, can you help me lynch Kise tomorrow?

We'll get to that tomorrow. If I was certain you were town, I'd be with you in a heartbeat.

[Ether]

Sounds to me more like Patrick nailed you.

Looks like it.

[Ether]

Yeah, I'm not arguing about the order at this point. Is there anything I can say, or is this mostly based on Wiirdo?

[MissTake]

Ether, if I thought you were scum, or meant to imply that I believed you were scummy I would say something. I'm not a very subtle person I still have rather neutral feelings about you (which might or might change tomorrow, when I look at the games that you linked me to).

But, you do make a few valid points. As I said before, I'll go through and re-read tomorrow. If I have an argument then, I'll bring it up, but at the moment, I'm kind of sitting over here with my thumb up my ass with gut feeling arguments, which don't equate to factual arguments.

[Kise]

Unvote, Vote: ConsonantM

Boost: Kmd

I noticed no one has commented on Mastin's claim...... Anyone care to?

I can admit that I don't view Mastin as

obv

scum, but he's far from behaving townie IMO; Thus, I do not see him receiving a boost.. thus, having a useless role.

The Mufasa wagon sucks.
Mufasa is town.

I noticed you've been preaching here and there how Mufasa is/was town, but you never explained what Mufasa did to appear townie in your eyes. So, what was it about him?

[Kise]

Sounds to me more like Patrick nailed you.

Looks like it.

Ether, this --->

We're supposed to accept this claim because you know him?

It's almost too easy for you to come in and say, "I know Patrick, and I know that he's scum because his claim

is

bullshit." when you could easily

be scum using your personal relationship with Patrick as cover

[Ether]

↑ further evidence that Kise lied. about. his. role.

[MissTake]

Kise, are you just catching up or avoiding Ether?

[MissTake]

Simul-post for the win?

[Ether]

Yeah, my last post was about Kise's 1113.

See, the trouble is that MissTake said that, not you. Whether you intend it or not, your posts give off the distinct vibe that you know I'm town and are just trying to make me secondguess myself. There are a few sly jabs on the side, but comments about how Patrick might have tricked me totally ruin that.

[Kise]

MissTake said it before I did [in my own words]. Big deal?

-My alignment should be pretty obvious at this point to anyone with half a meta.

If I may point it out, Mastin is guilty of saying this same line... He's not always town when he enforces his playstyle, however.

Exactly what is it that Patrick said in regards to his supposed distaste for PGOs? You have been vague when it comes to specifying the conversation you may have had with him.

[Kise]

And even better, how long ago was it that you & Patrick had this discussion about PGO-dislike?

[Ether]

Quite a big deal, since that's not the impression

you've

been giving off at all. You should instead be begging me not to sacrifice my (hypothetical) role that way. Your last post--trying to prove that maybe I'm just outdated--is yet another example of this. You don't think I'm scum; you believe every word I've said.

While I have logs back to June 2008, I'm going to stay fairly vague for ethical reasons. (Also, Patrick has already explicitly forbidden me from quoting any transcripts that could indirectly refer to this game. I asked.) I'm just gonna say that he

has

said, fairly recently, that PGOs are a bad role, and leave it at that.

But even if he hadn't said it, I'd still be pushing your lynch after seeing the claim. I'm pretty sure Patrick believes as strongly as I do that punishing scum for things they should have no reason to expect to be punished over doesn't make for a very enjoyable game. He's a square like that.

[Porochaz]

Please view this to see why Mastin is now obvscum

[Patrick]

Votecount

Mastin (6) -- Kmd4390, OhGodMyLife, Sir Tornado, Empking, Kise, MissTake
millar13 (3) -- cateraction, semioldguy, Porochaz
OhGodMyLife (1) -- Sajin
cateraction (1) -- populartajo
Kmd4390 (1) -- Mastin

Not voting: Ether, zwetschenwasser, millar13, Battle Mage
16 alive, 9 to lynch.

By my count, Mastin's vote boosted Porochaz. Everyone now only has 2 boost votes; those who would still have had 3 boost votes out have had them reset.

Boosting

Kise (1) -- Sajin
Battle Mage (3) -- Sajin, Kise, Empking
Sajin (5) -- cateraction, Sir Tornado, Kise, semioldguy, populartajo
MissTake (2) -- semioldguy, Ether
Kmd4390 (5) -- cateraction, OhGodMyLife, Empking, millar13, MissTake
OhGodMyLife (1) -- Ether
Ether (1) -- OhGodMyLife

[Sir Tornado]

Ether, what are the reasons for PGO being a bad role (according to Patrick)?