Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[Zachrulez]

Don't think that little piece of vote bartering you did with Alex has gone unnoticed by me...

[GIEFF]

Don't think that little piece of vote bartering you did with Alex has gone unnoticed by me...

Unvote Mastin

I suspect alex and camn are buddies. I asked them both questions about the other

Alex claims to find camn scummy, claims to want to save Mastin, yet refuses to vote her to do so. Hmm.

I also asked camn if she would prefer a Mastin or alex lynch, and she chose Mastin.

[Zachrulez]

And yet lynching Mastin and learning his alignment for certainty will shed a whole lot more light on that matter then unvoting him will...

[VP Baltar]

GIEFF, that isn't a very logical conclusion to be reaching without seeing any alignment flips. Mastin needs lynching. Also, I forgot to say earlier, but I will address your case on camn point by point overnight so you don't feel like people are completely ignoring you.

[alexhans]

I found Camn scummy... but all those defenses from KMD, VP and other people wifomed my brains out.

What if they are scum and know Camn is town? etc, etc... So... I'm not willing to be wrong about Camn right now...

I WONT save Mastin at this point. If he is town, wich he probably is, that's too bad. But at least you won't be pushing his lynch again.

I prefer a BM lynch.

[Benmage]

Don't think that little piece of vote bartering you did with Alex has gone unnoticed by me...

Unvote Mastin

I suspect alex and camn are buddies. I asked them both questions about the other

Alex claims to find camn scummy, claims to want to save Mastin, yet refuses to vote her to do so. Hmm.

I also asked camn if she would prefer a Mastin or alex lynch, and she chose Mastin.

So shouldn't we be voting Camn?

I found Camn scummy... but all those defenses from KMD, VP and other people wifomed my brains out.

What if they are scum and know Camn is town? etc, etc... So... I'm not willing to be wrong about Camn right now...

I WONT save Mastin at this point. If he is town, wich he probably is, that's too bad. But at least you won't be pushing his lynch again.

I prefer a BM lynch.

So would you be willing to vote camn?

To note: I am still quite willing to see here lynched, via my preference.

[VP Baltar]

But at least you won't be pushing his lynch again.

I agree with you for a change. You should vote Mastin.

[GIEFF]

1. @Camn: I like you... and I DONT like you at the same time... How's that possible? Acting crazy helps your meta? Try to help town...

   Thanks, coach.
   
   

2. 
   But don't worry.. I will grow on you!

   I hope so. Smile.
   
   Ok.
   *Alexhans gives 1 credit to camn for ending the RVS (or attempting to in a WEIRD way Razz)

   "Camn is so townie, everybody!"
   
   

3. 
   

   UNVOTE

   
   I follow this alex-bm battle with interest.

   Camn.... I advise you to question anyone of us if you're interested instead of watching it from the side. Or question other people, or whatever... We need more input.
   
   Also... Why aren't you lurkerwaggoning Whooo!!! as you usually do IIRC?

   "I advise." Telling her to get more involved. Thanks, coach.
   
   

4. Camn... None of this is buddying... The only one close to buddying is the first one because you allow him to softclaim (even though you think is scummy?) but the other 2 are definetly not... you're trying to LYNCH them for god's sake!!! Shocked
   Ok... the rest of them... Some are, some are not... but I see your point... specially remembering 799...

   Wishy-washy. Pretends to be against camn, but comes back to agreeing with her - "I see your point." Also, this is way too many ellipses for my liking...
   
   
5. First part of Post 221. Tells her what she is doing that is scummy. Doesn't pressure her on it, just ask her what's up, and why she's acting that way. Thanks, coach.
   
   

6. That goes to you to camn... Don't say that BM is scummier or we are both townies or whatever without explaining.

   Thanks, coach.
   
   

7. I support ANY lurkerlynch.

   YET. Unlike you, you never jumped on lurkers like broomhead and don't vote for them now.

   "Do some damn scumhunting, camn! Something, anything!" Thanks, coach.
   

   
   Anyway, I AM writing off my lack of scumhunting to early-game weakness. I don't know who the scum are. I don't put much credence in RVS 'scumslips'.

   being lazy can be a scum excuse. Razz and I thought we had left the RVS a long time ago.

   "START PRETENDING TO FIND SCUM, CAMN!!!!"
   
   Thanks, coach.
   
   

8. The only time I can remember ever getting scum Day 1 is on lurkerlynches... This is my least favorite part of every game.

   woah... So you never succeeded in finding scum on day 1? odd... anyway... why aren't you voting a lurker then?

   "Camn! Why the hell are you still making no effort to catch scum! Just vote a lurker, it's an easy cover!"
   
   

9. UNVOTE
   vote: Benmage

   Oh wow, you are good at this game...what was i thinking.

   hey... I think it's "gut"... that's how she plays... Cool

   Defending camn.
   
   

10. Simply from a theoretical perspective.. do you think it is good to lay out why people strike you as TOWN?

    Well... reasons are important in this game... Scum has knowledge town doesn't so seeing through those reasons you can try to disentangle if it's a valid guess or a totally unsupported guess based on a scum game strategy wich, again, involves knowledge.

    Note how camn only asks her buddy alex from a theoretical perspective. Not from a perspective of trying to see if he is town or not.
    
    

11. Camn... quit acting like a child... if you're town... you're being most unhelpful with ridiculous questions...

    Thanks, coach.
    
    

12. Camn... if you wanna know so you can OMGUS me too. Yes, you're acting scummy. OMGUS, evasiveness, lack of scumhunting, odd reactions to questions, you're recoiling too much...

    Just like Mastin did to jammer. "You are acting scummy because of X, Y, and Z." No votes, no pressure, just a nudge in the right direction, coaching on how to appear less scummy.
    
    

13. lynch me then.

    Be careful with your wifom. It's anti-town if you're town and it's scummy.

    Thanks, coach.
    
    

14. KMD: I'm suspicious of BM, Camn, Benmage and SensFan mainly. For things they have done or attitudes they have.

    Safe-distancing is safe.
    
    

15. Camn... the truth is... that I WAS referring at your vote to GIEFF because you jumped at him for what you believed was a case against you. That's some kind of OMGUS.
    
    And, please, don't appeal to emotion calling for your own lynch. It's confusing.

    Thanks, coach.
    
    

16. Camn... Since when do you suspect mastin??? Are you voting him to prove Benmage wrong or something? you KEEP acting scummy. There's no way around it.

    Thanks, coach.
    
    

17. Anyway... 495... Good post Camn... We need that kind of posts. I'm working on a similar one but I still need to refresh some things and receive more input from some players.

    Making camn look good.
    
    

18. 
    Camn's really defensive of Mastin for no reason other than... well... no idea.

    Can you refresh me where did this happen? Camn is currently voting Mastin... what do you make out of that? Are you sure she was defending him?

    Defending camn.
    
    
    

19. my theres-scum-in-here list consists on
    SensFan, BM, Camn, Benmage

    Safe-distancing is safe. Let's throw her in a list so when she flips scum people wont' suspect me!
    
    
    

20. I know what you said when you said it... I just want to see what you say now after all your explanations regarding different topics

    to show you as town, no matter what.

    Then we can see if you're consistent or just trying to look townie out of every question.

    Am I misreading something? You just want to show her as town, no matter what?
    
    
21. Then there is 685, which BM mentioned, and which got me looking back at all of alex's interactions with camn in the first place.

I hope everybody agrees that this is a shocking amount of coaching, a shocking amount of defense, and a very lame pretense of finding camn scummy.

Alex had a chance to vote for a player he CLAIMS to find scummy, with a significant number of people behind her lynch, in order to stave off the lynch of another player he CLAIMS to find townie, but instead chooses to vote for Battle Mage, because apparently other people defending camn confuses him.


If I can't convince you guys to lynch camn today, can we please lynch alex instead?

Vote alex

[VP Baltar]

GIEFF, you played with camn as scum, do you feel she needs that much coaching to play correctly?

[Benmage]

Wouldn't the coaching occur in the QT?

[camn]

B0ut, If he doesn't, you'll have to remember it.

Is Alex ALREADY trying to take credit for staying off the Mastin Wagon?

What if they are scum and know Camn is town? etc, etc... So... I'm not willing to be wrong about Camn right now...

They could ALL be town who

THINK

I am town..
or some could be scum that

KNOW

I am town....

but they certainly couldn't

all

be scum!

[GIEFF]

GIEFF, you played with camn as scum, do you feel she needs that much coaching to play correctly?

She doesn't need coaching at all; she was a very good scum player.

And I think you should be asking alex that question, not me.



@ Benmage: It was my understanding that scum could only post during the QT during the night phase. Am I incorrect?

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Mastin (6): Zachrulez, Debonair Danny DiPietro, VP Baltar, Kmd4390, Benmage, camn
camn (1): SpyreX
SpyreX (1): jammer
Battle Mage (2): Mastin, alexhans
jammer (1): Battle Mage
alexhans (1): GIEFF

Not Voting: Cephrir, blackcatcontract, SensFan

Saw the prod requests. Will get to dealing with that a bit later.

8 to lynch

[GIEFF]

alex and camn, are you two allowed to post in the QT during the day, or only at night?

[VP Baltar]

She doesn't need coaching at all; she was a very good scum player.

That's my point then. Perhaps you are simply forcing the square peg into the round hole.

Benmage, have you been scum before with a daytalk QT?

[camn]

alex and camn, are you two allowed to post in the QT during the day, or only at night?

only at nigh------
OH YOU! You ALMOST GOT ME!!

Just kidding.
Geiff.. what about our whole OMGUS discussion?
If he was my buddy.. why did he contradict me, and say he actually WAS talking about you, when I made it clear I thought we were talking about him and Ben?

Plus, just cuz I am for a Mastin lynch...don't think that I am against an alex lynch.
I am for it.
and I certainly am not his buddy.

[Zachrulez]

Moar votes on Mastin please.

[GIEFF]

That's my point then. Perhaps you are simply forcing the square peg into the round hole.

Do you agree that alex was coaching camn?
Do you think a townie would coach anybody as much as alex has coached camn, regardless of camn's alignment?


I admit it was my suspicion of camn (and BM's accusation of coaching) that first got me to dig back and look at all this stuff, but it's pretty clear that when camn does something scummy, alex mentions it to either tell her to stop, or just warn her that her behavior is scummy. His quotes speak for themselves. He threw her on a couple scum-lists for appearances, but his refusal to wagon her to save Mastin lends credence to my theory that it's just distancing.


And as camn says, alex's excuse for not voting camn to save Mastin ("people defending her is WIFOM-y!") rings pretty hollow.

[GIEFF]

Also, I'm not certain that it's coincidence that alex left for over 24 hours, and only posted again half an hour after Mastin hit L-1. You wanted to demonstrate your opposition to a Mastin lynch one more time, eh?

[VP Baltar]

I would lynch alex to test your theory....tomorrow. These types of accusations never fly until you know someone's alignment.

I think you could very well be reaching for some of these "coaching" instances you point out. Here is a counter question for you:

Do you think any townie would defend Mastin so hard for no reason?

[Zachrulez]

I think I need to iso Alex.

I get the impression that Alex takes the coaching attitude as an aspect of his playing style, but I want to take a closer look and verify that.

[GIEFF]

Do you think any townie would defend Mastin so hard for no reason?

No.

Couple that with alex's opportune return to the thread right after L-1 to just tell us one more time that he's against a Mastin lynch (yet for some reason won't vote camn in order to REALLY stop a Mastin lynch) make me think alex is scum trying to gain town-points by PRETENDING to stop a Mastin-lynch.

Which woudl make Mastin town, would it not?

Which do you think would incriminate alex more at this point - Mastin-town or Mastin-scum?

[Zachrulez]

And I don't want to get into any of this chain lynching talk, or presuming who's still going to be alive tomorrow. That is really putting me off.

[GIEFF]

OK, so just lynch alex for coaching a player that acts scummy instead of attacking her.

Or lynch him for "undeniably playing scummy," as a wise poster once said.

[Zachrulez]

You were reading when made a big fuss about me not calling out the detractors of the Camn wagon right?