Open 156 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over before 816


User avatar
ZazieR
ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7567
Joined: August 15, 2008
Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD

Post Post #100 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:14 pm

Post by ZazieR »

itacv2 wrote:What would u like me to explain, i have just been reading and havent got any other reason to change vote whatsoever. I still think that using the whole jerk tone and saying it while evading to other topics could mean that indeed DDD is in fact scum. While the scope was on him, briefly, DDD was dodgy and managed to change the target from him. And why should i change my vote and bandwagon when there is little or close to none information or loose lead.
I want you to quote where he has used this 'jerk tone' and how it makes him scum.
Also, why did you decide to post now?

Vote Count #4

Hectopascal (3) - Factor of Hectopascal, Factor of Hectopascal, Factor of Hectopascal


Exalt (2) - Debonair Danny DiPietro, Raivann
Santos (2) - Sho Minamimoto, Kise
Debonair Danny DiPietro (2) - Toro, itacv2
Toro (1) - ZazieR
Sho Minamimoto (1) - muzzz
Kise (1) - ekiM
Ignore the ''R''
User avatar
ZazieR
ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7567
Joined: August 15, 2008
Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD

Post Post #101 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:17 pm

Post by ZazieR »

Raivann wrote:
Exalt wrote:@Raivann: Please answer my question to you on why your single and only post in the entire game is to say that I was trying too hard when I removed my vote. Since it was your only post of the game and since you voted me without explaining it, I'm asking that you do. How was I trying too hard, and in what way did it look scummy enough to deserve a vote.
No hard evidence, just a hunch.
My explanation was trying too hard, should have said to appear townie.
You also seem overly worried about my vote on you.
Can you give more details why you think that Exalt was trying to hard to appear as townie?
Ignore the ''R''
User avatar
ZazieR
ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7567
Joined: August 15, 2008
Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD

Post Post #102 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:23 pm

Post by ZazieR »

Kise wrote:
Sho Minamimoto wrote:Kise's Trap seemed like root-1. I mean, a self vote is null and gets as much conversation as a vote does in the RVS. I understand that much. What I don't understand is how someone attacking that (as it is a newer concept) is scummy or indicative of anti-town alignment.
Because ekiM [was the only one who] made a big deal out of my self-vote and tried to take the moral high ground against me.. He voted me because of what I did. Plus, the reason he gives does not click with me because it was already noted that I would be gone for a few days anyway, thus I would not be around to engage in convo & interaction, as he claimed I was going to deny him and the town
Self-votes are anti-town. And the traps that players claim them to be, haven't worked in my experiences of finished games. I'm waiting on my games with Mastin to finish to confirm this.
Also, that's not what ekiM meant (The part of denying interactions)
Ignore the ''R''
User avatar
ekiM
ekiM
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ekiM
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1057
Joined: April 10, 2009
Location: UK=GMT+1

Post Post #103 (ISO) » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:51 pm

Post by ekiM »

Zazie, I've read your explanation for your posting style and I think it's just, well, wrong. It is
a lot harder
for me to follow the thread if every single different thought you have has its own post. That's why people don't do that usually.

Anyway I'm not going to argue with you about it, but I do wish you would just post normally. I like most of what you're saying, it just gives me a bit of a headache to read it all split up like this.


Exalt, I think I don't really understand what you're saying. You've said you're not suggesting a policy lynch on Sho for his posting style, but that you
would
vote for him if he kept posting like that. I guess I don't understand the fundamental difference between pushing a policy lynch now, and suggesting you'll push one later. Both are suggesting that someone should be lynched for
the way that they post
rather than
because they are likely to be scum
. I think we should lynch people we think are likely to be scum, and I don't see how someone choosing to post in a certain way (in this and another game) makes it more likely that they are scum.

Do you think Sho posting this way makes him more likely to be scum, or are you saying this style of posting could be so anti-town it should be dealt with by a lynch even if it doesn't make him likely scum, or that it's impossible to determine the scumminess of someone posting that way? Or something else?

In answer to your question, I'm going to be ignoring his way of phrasing things and examining what he actually says and seeing if it is scummy. I don't see why his using "zetta" instead of "very" means that we can't attempt to deduce his alignment in the same way as we would with any other player.


Kise, I'm afraid I still don't understand your 'trap'. You did something scummy. I pointed it out. Now what? You're using a lot of pejorative phrases such as 'nitpicking' and 'taking the moral high ground' to describe my behavior, when all I've done is point out a scummy thing you did and vote you for it. Do you have a problem with me pointing out scummy behavior? Why?


itacv2, you've justified your vote on DDD, but I'd like to hear any comments you have on other players. Townies do tunnel, but scum can pretend to tunnel to avoid interacting with too many players.


Raivann, there's really no need to be sarcastic. I didn't complain that you agreed with me, I complained that you said you were agreeing with me when you were not.

Why does Exalt's removal of his vote come off as 'trying too hard to appear townie'? Do you have any other comments at all on the game?
User avatar
Santos
Santos
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Santos
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1682
Joined: August 22, 2008
Location: Santa Barbara

Post Post #104 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:00 am

Post by Santos »

It was DDD that wanted Exalt to comment on policy lynches...so DDD, what do you think of Exalt's response?
[url=http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/thecrazies/]zombie - The Crazies[/url]

[url=http://www.erepublik.com/en/referrer/GreekHoplite]Join me in eRepublik![/url]
User avatar
muzzz
muzzz
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
muzzz
Goon
Goon
Posts: 644
Joined: April 1, 2009

Post Post #105 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:01 am

Post by muzzz »

@Zazie: did you know you were going to discuss traps when you posted the Satoko picture? :D



Re. traps - the key to a good trap is knowing how to differentiate between town falling for it and scum falling for it. And I don't think that's a trivial task when it comes to self-voting-as-trap.
Most justified random vote ever:
"Vote: muzzz for making my girlfriend think you were me" - Rai
User avatar
Santos
Santos
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Santos
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1682
Joined: August 22, 2008
Location: Santa Barbara

Post Post #106 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:43 am

Post by Santos »

Personally, I've played in a game where self-voting has caught scum and lynched a townie, so I'm not sure how its setting a trap...am I understanding the context of what you are saying?
[url=http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/thecrazies/]zombie - The Crazies[/url]

[url=http://www.erepublik.com/en/referrer/GreekHoplite]Join me in eRepublik![/url]
User avatar
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5487
Joined: January 21, 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio

Post Post #107 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:45 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Santos wrote:It was DDD that wanted Exalt to comment on policy lynches...so DDD, what do you think of Exalt's response?
He's doing his best to support a possible policy lynch of Sho without using the words "policy lynch" which is more than a little peculiar. Furthermore, I find it a bit odd that's he so willing to simply concede defeat and admit that there's no possible way he can get a read on him.

Anyways, Raivann is scum. We should all vote for her.

Unvote; Vote: Raivann
User avatar
Santos
Santos
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Santos
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1682
Joined: August 22, 2008
Location: Santa Barbara

Post Post #108 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:48 am

Post by Santos »

Can I buy a vowel first?
[url=http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/thecrazies/]zombie - The Crazies[/url]

[url=http://www.erepublik.com/en/referrer/GreekHoplite]Join me in eRepublik![/url]
User avatar
muzzz
muzzz
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
muzzz
Goon
Goon
Posts: 644
Joined: April 1, 2009

Post Post #109 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:57 am

Post by muzzz »

@Santos: Kise said he did it to set a trap.

@DDD: OK, I'll bite. Why Raivann?
Most justified random vote ever:
"Vote: muzzz for making my girlfriend think you were me" - Rai
User avatar
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5487
Joined: January 21, 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio

Post Post #110 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:12 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

muzzz wrote:@DDD: OK, I'll bite. Why Raivann?
I didn't say stop and ask questions, I said vote.
User avatar
Santos
Santos
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Santos
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1682
Joined: August 22, 2008
Location: Santa Barbara

Post Post #111 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:15 am

Post by Santos »

Unvote?

Vote: Raivann


I want to know moar.
[url=http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/thecrazies/]zombie - The Crazies[/url]

[url=http://www.erepublik.com/en/referrer/GreekHoplite]Join me in eRepublik![/url]
User avatar
Raivann
Raivann
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Raivann
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1111
Joined: January 16, 2009
Location: Valhalla , Asgard

Post Post #112 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:46 am

Post by Raivann »

Anyways, Raivann is scum. We should all vote for her.
So sorry, townie here and I'm a dude, Danny
Digestion only feeds...This abomination breathes!
User avatar
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5487
Joined: January 21, 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio

Post Post #113 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:24 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Sorry.

EBWOP: Anyways, Raivann is scum. We should all vote for him.
User avatar
Raivann
Raivann
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Raivann
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1111
Joined: January 16, 2009
Location: Valhalla , Asgard

Post Post #114 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:21 pm

Post by Raivann »

@DDD-Are you certain I'm scum?
Digestion only feeds...This abomination breathes!
User avatar
Santos
Santos
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Santos
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1682
Joined: August 22, 2008
Location: Santa Barbara

Post Post #115 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:10 pm

Post by Santos »

I've done my
portion
of voting, so I would like my
fraction
of reason behind your reasons to say that DDD :)
[url=http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/thecrazies/]zombie - The Crazies[/url]

[url=http://www.erepublik.com/en/referrer/GreekHoplite]Join me in eRepublik![/url]
User avatar
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5487
Joined: January 21, 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio

Post Post #116 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:44 pm

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Raivann wrote:@DDD-Are you certain I'm scum?
With this setup, that would require me to be your scum partner, and since I'm not I'm not "certain".

~

Santos, I promise you'll get some reasons, but I'd like to at least have a few more people react before I do so.
User avatar
Kise
Kise
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Kise
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8337
Joined: May 26, 2009

Post Post #117 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:24 pm

Post by Kise »

@DDD - What makes Raivann scum, in your own words?
ZazieR wrote:Then why did you ask for Frankie (me) and ekiM to give their opinion on the other?
I want you to tell me what you think about all of ekiM's posts. Not just how you feel about the "self-voting denies the town interactions to draw from" sentence.
ZazieR wrote:
@Kise

Who's the scum team now and why?
It's... still leaning towards you two. Are you going to scumhunt or play psychiatrist, boo?
ZazieR wrote:Also, that's not what ekiM meant (The part of denying interactions)
Rephrase this for me, please. ekiM didn't mean what?
ekiM wrote:Do you have a problem with me pointing out scummy behavior? Why?
No. Do you have a problem with me pointing out a trivial viewpoint?
They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.

Yet…
User avatar
Kise
Kise
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Kise
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8337
Joined: May 26, 2009

Post Post #118 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:25 pm

Post by Kise »

Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Santos, I promise you'll get some reasons, but I'd like to at least have a few more people react before I do so.
You want us to blindly vote, or.....??
They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.

Yet…
User avatar
Kise
Kise
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Kise
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8337
Joined: May 26, 2009

Post Post #119 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:31 pm

Post by Kise »

Question to all - Did I deny the town the ability to use my interactions with others as a source for theoretical study?
They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.

Yet…
User avatar
Sho Minamimoto
Sho Minamimoto
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Sho Minamimoto
Goon
Goon
Posts: 165
Joined: July 9, 2009
Location: Shibuya, Japan

Post Post #120 (ISO) » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:51 pm

Post by Sho Minamimoto »

Kise wrote:
ekiM wrote:Self-voting in RVS is anti-town because it denies the town some interactions to work from. Any attempt to reduce the amount of information you're giving in the early game is scummy, because only scum have a motive for it.
I feel zetta stupid. Sorry, just missed the connection there.

I love ZazieR at the moment. I can actually follow the thought process.

I like eKim cause I get a vaguely town origin for eKim's behavior. However, I disagree. I don't find Kise's self vote scummy as it progressed the game, which is the main goal of the RVS.
Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
Santos wrote:It was DDD that wanted Exalt to comment on policy lynches...so DDD, what do you think of Exalt's response?
He's doing his best to support a possible policy lynch of Sho without using the words "policy lynch" which is more than a little peculiar. Furthermore, I find it a bit odd that's he so willing to simply concede defeat and admit that there's no possible way he can get a read on him.

Anyways, Raivann is scum. We should all vote for her.

Unvote; Vote: Raivann
...!
You were able to so elegantly describe my thoughts on Exalt. I am not bad at English. In fact, it is one of my better subjects, but I just couldn't word it. Thanks DDD.

In return, I will progress to hear your reasoning on this.
Unvote; vote raivann


@Kise: No. I find it to be a useless pursuit anyway.
This is my latest masterpiece. I call it: "Myself!"

One mafia win and one mafia loss... CRUNCH! I'll add it to the heap!
User avatar
ZazieR
ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7567
Joined: August 15, 2008
Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD

Post Post #121 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:53 am

Post by ZazieR »

muzzz wrote:@Zazie: did you know you were going to discuss traps when you posted the Satoko picture? :D



Re. traps - the key to a good trap is knowing how to differentiate between town falling for it and scum falling for it. And I don't think that's a trivial task when it comes to self-voting-as-trap.
No, I wasn''t >.< I just like the image :D
I also use one of Rika, but I''ve used that one much more. So this time I started with Satoko ^.^
Self-voting as a trap doesn''t work. It starts discussion, but outside the game with Mastin, I''ve seen it four times. One is ongoing, two were a discussion between two town players with scum using it to lynch and in the fourth game, it was barely noticed.

So
Kise
, why is this ekiM-scum commenting and not ekiM-town according to you?
Ignore the ''R''
User avatar
ZazieR
ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7567
Joined: August 15, 2008
Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD

Post Post #122 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:55 am

Post by ZazieR »

Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Anyways, Raivann is scum. We should all vote for him.

Unvote; Vote: Raivann
No. This is follow the sheep and especially in this set-up is this scummy. State your reasons for suggesting this, DDD.
Ignore the ''R''
User avatar
ZazieR
ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7567
Joined: August 15, 2008
Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD

Post Post #123 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:01 am

Post by ZazieR »

Santos wrote:
Unvote?

Vote: Raivann


I want to know moar.
State your reason how according to you this will help.
Ignore the ''R''
User avatar
ZazieR
ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7567
Joined: August 15, 2008
Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD

Post Post #124 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:03 am

Post by ZazieR »

Raivann wrote:
Anyways, Raivann is scum. We should all vote for her.
So sorry, townie here and I'm a dude, Danny
Why did you already claim?
Ignore the ''R''

Return to “Completed Mini Normal Games”