Open 156 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over before 816

[ZazieR]

Then why did you ask for Frankie (me) and ekiM to give their opinion on the other?

I want you to tell me what you think about all of ekiM's posts. Not just how you feel about the "self-voting denies the town interactions to draw from" sentence.

I already did? Look here. Will you now answer my question?

@Kise

Who's the scum team now and why?

It's... still leaning towards you two. Are you going to scumhunt or play psychiatrist, boo?

Stop calling me that I''ve checked what it means now!
Anyway, I''m scumhunting.

Also, that's not what ekiM meant (The part of denying interactions)

Rephrase this for me, please. ekiM didn't mean what?

He said that your Random Vote denies the town some interaction. You thought wrongly about what he meant with it. I''m surprised he didn''t point this out.

Vote Count #5

Going After Someone For Self Voting In The RVS:

Raivann (3) - Debonair Danny DiPietro, Santos, Sho Minamimoto
Exalt (1) - Raivann
Santos (1) - Kise
Debonair Danny DiPietro (2) - Toro, itacv2
Toro (1) - ZazieR
Sho Minamimoto (1) - muzzz
Kise (1) - ekiM

[ZazieR]

Question to all - Did I deny the town the ability to use my interactions with others as a source for theoretical study?

Theoretical study? I know you mean your self-vote, but why call it like this?
I don''t think you did.

[ZazieR]

In return, I will progress to hear your reasoning on this.

Unvote; vote raivann

State your reason how according to you this will help.

[Santos]

State your reason how according to you this will help.

My reason, according to me, is that it will help me know more.

[ZazieR]

State your reason how according to you this will help.

My reason, according to me, is that it will help me know more.

What information do you expect it will give?

[Santos]

Whether or not to believe if DDD just claimed cop or not.

[ZazieR]

Do you think he claimed cop? Ok...

[muzzz]

@Kise: yes and no. Technically, laying a trap is interacting, just like voting for someone else. But I don't think the self-vote-trap is that useful. So I feel you did deny the town some, in the sense that you could've made a more useful play.

But really, this is moot. Empirical evidence suggests that the whole self-vote discussion is a null-tell.

@Santos: please go read the rules again.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Whether or not to believe if DDD just claimed cop or not.

Yes, I'm claiming cop in an open setup that doesn't feature a cop and with that a guilty result on Raivann on D1 of a game with a day start.

~

Reasons for voting Raivann:

1) Meta - I was working on a pet project of mine and compiling data from a recently completed Newbie game Raivann was involved in. In the first five pages he had nearly thirty posts and accounted for almost thirty percent of all game posts, he was a vanilla townie. So far in this game he has a total of six posts over a similar time span. And it's not as if this was an ineffective strategy, town won the game and Raivann was NKed N3. So why such a substantial change in style unless there's a change in role?

2) Vote on Exalt - It's a terrible vote and he jumps on someone else's bad logic to place it. It's a good vote for scum because Exalt has foot in mouth disease which means it's easy to sustain with an adequate chance of securing a mislynch.

3) Response to my vote - There are certain behaviors that might've persuaded me that he's town, I didn't see any of them. His asking if I was "certain" didn't help his case either in my eyes.

[muzzz]

I wouldn't say Exalt has foot-in-mouth disease, but his temper-flares do make him a cheap target.

@Raivann: linkies to completed games, please.

[ekiM]

Kise, you're blowing smoke. I've asked you more than once what your 'trap' was meant to do and you've not answered.

Mod: Toro hasn't posted in three days. Prod please.

Mod: Votecount please.

[Exalt]

Hey, I need to catch up, been a busy last 2 days... I'm still here though, I'll post my thoughts asap

[Raivann]

1) Meta - I was working on a pet project of mine and compiling data from a recently completed Newbie game Raivann was involved in. In the first five pages he had nearly thirty posts and accounted for almost thirty percent of all game posts, he was a vanilla townie. So far in this game he has a total of six posts over a similar time span. And it's not as if this was an ineffective strategy, town won the game and Raivann was NKed N3. So why such a substantial change in style unless there's a change in role?

Yeah this is true, but did you notice my scumdar was off almost all game too!
I'm having a hard time in this game at the moment. I'm not even sure I like my vote on Exalt after rereading him.

[Alduskkel]

Mod: Toro hasn't posted in three days. Prod please.

Mod: Votecount please.

Both are done.

[ekiM]

Mod: Thanks.

Raivann: I've looked at that other game DDD mentioned and you got stuck into playing

far

more quickly there. Do some of the following:

• Ask questions
  
• Look for scumtells
  
• Put pressure on people
  
• Voice your suspicions

So far all you have done is voice suspicion of Exalt.

[Santos]

haha, I'm in way too many mafias :p

I rescind my reason(s)

[muzzz]

But not your vote?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Mod: Thanks.

Raivann: I've looked at that other game DDD mentioned and you got stuck into playing

far

more quickly there. Do some of the following:

• Ask questions
  
• Look for scumtells
  
• Put pressure on people
  
• Voice your suspicions

So far all you have done is voice suspicion of Exalt.

So, do you always coach your scum buddies this blatantly ekiM?

[Raivann]

I wouldn't say Exalt has foot-in-mouth disease, but his temper-flares do make him a cheap target.

@Raivann: linkies to completed games, please.

I've completed 2 newbie games, I don't know how to put in links though

unvote,Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

I originally didn't mind his vote on me. We could see voting patterns and such.Now he's trying to get me lynched because he sees me as an easy target.
I'm thinking scumteam is DDD/Toro.[/url]

[Toro]

Catchin' up.

[itacv2]

Inactiveness is a way used by scums to lay low, but i think Toro has not shown a true scum face thats why i will not think bad about him, yet.

As for Raivann, HE IS AN EASY TARGET as was put before.
@Raivann- there is no way you can prove the case against you wrong, the only chance u stand is to detecting a threat bigger than you in order to avoid being lynched.

@DDD- since it was you who also broght to attention the change of playstyle in this guy what else you suggest could be a proper approach to this situation. Because even when i still think you might be scum, you are making a point there.

@everyone else- I still think That DDD has a chance to be a big shot scum, lol, but he makes a point. I think we might want to test the case.
Why? If Raivann is lynched and he is town we might be short of one people but a nontalkative one, since he is counterproductive is not a big deal and might then watch the patterns of behavior , the bandwagoners and reactions to the lynch.

Aside from this i dont think i can make at this time make a clearer case than the ones being held

[Sho Minamimoto]

I wouldn't say Exalt has foot-in-mouth disease, but his temper-flares do make him a cheap target.

@Raivann: linkies to completed games, please.

After looking at a recent Exalt game, I'm thinking you're both right.

I like DDD's reasoning, and a simple search of Raivann's name will bring you to it.

@everyone else- I still think That DDD has a chance to be a big shot scum, lol, but he makes a point. I think we might want to test the case.
Why? If Raivann is lynched and he is town we might be short of one people but a nontalkative one, since he is counterproductive is not a big deal and might then watch the patterns of behavior , the bandwagoners and reactions to the lynch.

This is like: Yeah, I commit. But there is an X chance that Y isn't scum. So, if Y is town, it's only like losing 7% of our winning chances.

It's a giant load of bull.

[ekiM]

No, DDD, can't say that I do.

---

itacv2 suggests DDD is scum going for the easy target of Raivann, but says we might want to lynch Raivann to test this. This looks like a clumsy attempt to set up a chain of mislynches.

unvote; vote itacv2

[ekiM]

Santos isn't pulling his weight. He says that he's in way too many games, but I count just two others where he's active (plus one he just died in). What gives?

[ZazieR]

Reasons for voting Raivann:

1) Meta - I was working on a pet project of mine and compiling data from a recently completed Newbie game Raivann was involved in. In the first five pages he had nearly thirty posts and accounted for almost thirty percent of all game posts, he was a vanilla townie. So far in this game he has a total of six posts over a similar time span. And it's not as if this was an ineffective strategy, town won the game and Raivann was NKed N3. So why such a substantial change in style unless there's a change in role?

2) Vote on Exalt - It's a terrible vote and he jumps on someone else's bad logic to place it. It's a good vote for scum because Exalt has foot in mouth disease which means it's easy to sustain with an adequate chance of securing a mislynch.

3) Response to my vote - There are certain behaviors that might've persuaded me that he's town, I didn't see any of them. His asking if I was "certain" didn't help his case either in my eyes.

Weak case.
Meta argument isn't valid. Reason 3 wasn't present yet when voted. Leaving only #2. Yet, he made already one post after ekiM complained about Raivann's vote. He had no comment. In his next post, he votes.
So three questions:
-When did you check his meta?
-Why did you check his meta?
-Why didn't you comment on Raivann's vote earlier?

I'm also interested in hearing why you voted without giving your reasons and asking others to vote with you.