Newbie 817 (Game over!)

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Vote: Halidon

This vote is not random.

How so?

Vote: Jeromus

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A no lynch is a fucking disaster. Those who argue for it are always firmly at the top of my scum list. Just saying. I'd go into it, but our illustrious IC would do a better job.

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Unvote, Vote: BagSquad

. Based on what everyone has posted so far, he seems most likely to be scum.

>:(

Vote:

iamausername

If you're going to break out an OMGUS at least write something.

I do want to know what iamusername found especially scummy about your earlier posts though.

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I completely forgot this website existed, to be honest. I don't even lurk (and yes I am dangerous don't fuck with me bro).

Also, I'm still keeping my vote for iamausername, because he is mean, and talks a lot. Sounds like scum to me.

You completely forgot the website existed? So you /in for nexted... replied promptly to your role PM (as we all did, which is a good sign for the game) and then up and forgot that the website even existed? And as soon as a vote is cast against you all of a sudden remember that you're playing this game and respond to it? Not buying it- and if that's you being "honest" I can't trust you. In my book you went from quiet to being both an active lurker and a liar.

So, I'm gonna fuck with you bro...

Unvote: Jeromus

Vote: BagSquad

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I've always seen aggressiveness as being a bit scummy. It makes a person seem as if they're a scum trying to get the rest of the town to follow their vote and lynch a townie. Sure it can be helpful if you're a doctor questioning a known mafia but that's not the case here. Besides, doesn't anyone else thinking saying:

A no lynch is a fucking disaster. Those who argue for it are always firmly at the top of my scum list. Just saying. I'd go into it, but our illustrious IC would do a better job.

to someone who's brand new to the game is extremely harsh? There was no need to curse, it was still the first page of the game.

I'm surprised that people feel I'm being overly aggressive. Regarding the expletive used in my post regarding the no-lynch- I apologize. I'm prone to some salty language once in a while, but I do try to reign that kind of thing in. It is after all a family site. I was merely expressing my distaste for a no lynch, and any discussion of the possibility. I was in no way trying to belittle the person who brought it up.

In my opinion being aggressive is very pro-town. It shakes things up, and draws reactions out of people, often valuable reactions. Anything that keeps emotions charged and discussion rolling is in the towns favor, which goes back to why lurking can in turn be so detrimental for town. I do draw a line when it comes to bullying, intimidation, and insults. These things serve nobody, and when I see it happen I'm suspicious of the person responsible. For one it's not civil, and those tactics can be used to create a stigma regarding questioning the opinions and tactics of the person responsible. So in short- if it seems that I make a post in high temper (which I don't think I really have) take it with a grain of salt. But you can be assured that I will never be rude to people just for the sake of it.

All that said, if you think I'm bad- you're in for a rude awakening in future games. I'm a kitten compared to some others I've played with.

Other than that I have little to say at the moment. BagSquad is still my focus, and I wait with baited breath to read his response to the accusations against him.

Also, going camping... so

VLA for the next 36 hours

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Startrannie (Yes, I insist upon calling you this) is acting a lot like a guy in my last game, who turned out to be scum - Not exactly a scumtell, but I think a little pressure can hardly hurt

Startransmission

Startrannie - What is a ranmission and why are we starting it? Or is it a stellar transmission?

It's startransmission. But call me whatever is easy for you.

If you can give me something specific about my posts that bothers you I will be happy to address your concerns.

Also, thanks to the magic of the modern internet I am able to access it even in the middle of nowhere, in front of a nice campfire. So disregard my earlier VLA.

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jesus christ you people

If this is meant as a defense then you need to do better. If you are town, say so and stick up for yourself, don't let the mafia sit quiet as you get lynched.

I say this because as soon as momentum went against Bagsquad, this game got very very quiet. It wreaks of scum sitting on thier hands and waiting for day two.

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Ack, I can't believe I've gotten myself prodded. My apologies, I suppose I was waiting for a response from BagSquad, and the other lines of discussion didn't provoke me to provide input. This won't happen again.

So, I guess we write off BagSquad. I'll keep my vote where it is until he is replaced. I don't really have anywhere else to put it at the moment.

Welcome Starbuck, a pleasure to have you join us.

So here is where I'm at... I agree that pursuing Bag at this point is a waste of time, but where to go from here? I wouldn't say that we are back in the random stage entirely, but we do seem to have lost direction.

I will admit I have my eye on Maemuki. There's nothing too scummy going on, it just seems all her posts recently deal with how annoying it is that Bag has dropped off the face of the earth- and nothing else, no other content. The cynical part of me wonders if she's fretting over the loss of her scumbuddy and is anxious to have a replacement. I may be making too much out of it, but it's all I really have right now.

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Do you honestly believe that the person that replaced BagSquad, a completely different person, would act the same as him. Don't try to connect us. Connect me for me and not to him. One thing I can say is I am not unresponsive, since I answered your post.

Hey hiphop, welcome to the game. As a fun gesture I will

Unvote

Now, regarding what you have said above- you are in a way the same person as BagSquad. Or rather, you have the same

role

. So while I don't think that anyone expects (or certainly would want) you to behave like BagSquad, the fact is that you have taken over the role- not the identity- of the overall top scummy player. So you're connected, like it or not. You will be pushed, consider it a challenge.

With that said, having read back what is your analysis of the game, and specifically your predecessor?

@Bouchedufou - You know why we wanted Bag replaced. You listed it. Every person with a vote on him was because he was lurking, not because (most) knew him to be scum. You need to give hiphop a chance before you jump all over him.

Just to clarify I voted for BagSquad because I felt he made a very dishonest post early on. It was a matter of me not trusting him. His lurking came after. I know it's a dumb distinction, but I felt it should be made.

It's just that...There's nothing else going on. If there's something going on, please warn me, because I completely missed it. I don't want to get prodded, so I just post stuff about Baggy, because, that's all the clues we have right now. Besides, his play-style just downright annoys me.

Yeah, I dig. Like I said, I don't find you too scummy. It just bothered me that your posts were... safe. Echoing the sentiments of the town in brief posts is a nice way for scum to blend in. You raise my eyebrow, that's all.

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jesus christ you people

If this is meant as a defense then you need to do better. If you are town, say so and stick up for yourself, don't let the mafia sit quiet as you get lynched.

I say this because as soon as momentum went against Bagsquad, this game got very very quiet. It wreaks of scum sitting on thier hands and waiting for day two.

Considering he was voting BagSquad at the time, this does not sit well with me.

I don't understand what bothers you about my vote being against the (what was in my opinion) scummiest player at the time. Why would I unvote BagSquad after his "jesus christ you people" response? I was frustrated by his lack of defense, as I was aware of the possibility of BagSquad being just a shitty player and not scum. I was appealing to him to defend himself properly, and if he was town not to let the actual mafia sit quietly as all the scrutiny landed on him. Activity did drop immediately after BagSquad became the focus, and it concerned me.

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You weren't just voting for BagSquad, you were simultaneously voting for BagSquad and suggesting that scum were trying to get BagSquad lynched. That's what I have a problem with.

Well, almost. I was voting for BagSquad for obvious reasons. Once the heat was really on him and he was at L-2 the activity dropped significantly. I took that as a red flag... the chance that Bag was town and just sucked as a player struck me and I pointed out to Bag that

if

he was town he needed to say so, and not let the mafia sit back and enjoy a freebie.

Now, while I understood the possibility that Bag was town, I still found him to be the scummiest player. There was no way I was going to unvote considering his behavior at that point. When I vote for somebody it means they are the most scummy player in my eyes. That does not mean that I don't scrutinize other peoples actions (or lack thereof) and keep my eyes open for other suspicious posts/behavior.

startran, I would like to hear your thoughts on jeromus, if you don't mind.

Not at all. There isn't much to analyze, I think he has only posted 3-4 times. He started out by voting for me because I reminded him of another player in a previous game that turned out to be scum. I didn't really choose to attack that vote too much, as I had already made clear that I didn't think I was being rude or overly aggressive. Also, jeromus acknowledged that his reason for voting me wasn't too strong. I think his last post was unvoting me (because of said weak reasons) and correcting somebody on Starbucks gender.

So here is what I think- nothing too scummy. If one thing does bother me it's his quietness, and his desire to have questions of him to be short and to the point, so that his response can be short and to the point. I'd like to see some more analysis from him, and don't want him to feel comfortable just sitting back and waiting for people to ask him questions.

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I'm a little peeved at this latest prod. Frankly, this went from a very promising game to a fucking wash. Once people stop arguing semantics about when people should be replaced and start asking real questions my interest will be revived. Many of you (our IC included) seem to be content with waiting for answers to outdated questions. Or arguing about things that have nothing to do with finding and lynching scum.

So- if you feel that I'm being "overly aggressive" or "snarky" then mop up your tears and deal with it. This game needs some balls, and if I'm lynched for providing them then so be it. I'll post my analysis of all current and past players within the next few hours.

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My analysis will have to wait for a bit due to time constraints. Sorry for the delay.

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Starbuck

Here's where I'm the most undecided. A good player, who has been active since replacing in for Halidon. Reading back through has given me some pause however. She subbed in while Bag was under fire, and was soon to be replaced himself. In her opening analysis she expressed the opinion that Bag was probably town. At the time I wasn't willing to argue with her, I was suspecting the same thing (don't get too excited iamausersname, Bag was still my top scum pick at that time). It's when Hiphop replaces in that a few things start to bug me.

@hiphop - Something I do any time I replace into a game is an analysis of my predecessor's posts along with a synopsis of the game. While you really only have like 3 posts of his to analyze, it's good to point them out.

This seems like advice from one scumbuddy to another, albeit good advice. I myself asked hiphop for his analysis of Bag and other players. Still, after brushing off Bags potential guilt, this sticks out to me.

I just don't like to assume that someone's scum based on the fact that he just doesn't care about the game at all, which Bag did not care. It sucks for hiphop to have to take over for such a shitty player. I know that I will not hold him accountable for BagSquad's actions.

Again, I agree in principle, as I myself unvoted hiphop when he came into the game. He did not deserve Bags votes. But this does seem like one more instance of assuming that Bag was innocent, and therefore giving hiphop an entirely clean slate.

When looked at one post at a time there is nothing scummy about what Starbuck is saying or doing. In fact I give her credit for being consistent. Taken together though, and maybe I'm looking too hard, I do get the impression of her taking hiphop under her wing.

Her debate with bouchedufou has given me further pause. Post 118 stands out especially. She says she detects sarcasm from bouche, where I see none. She (yet again) defends hiphop

Why do you think he's trying too hard? He walked into a horrible situation when he replaced Bag. What would you do if you were in his position?

Assumes he is town and defends his vote

I think you are being very vindictive because he is now voting for you. It seems as though you are overreacting because he found you out.

And then shoots down Bouches opinion on hiphops value as a voter...

It seems that hiphop senses that he found scum and is therefore voting for the scummiest player in his eyes, which is what a person should do. You are accusing him of randomly voting around. His vote on you isn't at all random.

When in fact hiphop has thrown his vote at everybody who engages him in debate.

Also, hiphop wasn't my main suspicion at the time- I was more worried about Jeromus because of his fewer posts due to recharging problems.

You seem to continuously be concerned with those who are not posting as much. That's quite a tunnel vision you have going there. While lurking can be a scum tell, lurking should not be the only thing you are focused on.

I do agree that lurking should not be the only thing people are focused on, but it is something to be concerned about. I don't see how you can criticize somebody for being suspicious with lurkers, especially active lurkers like Jeromus.

@Starbuck I know it seems like I'm picking on you and building a case, but it just so happens that I have time for just one analysis today. My weekend is just hours away, and I'll get to everybody else.

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Startransmission-Why did you only do Starbuck? I kind of want you to do me as well. I want to see what kind of impression I am making, being this is my first game at mafiascum. Maybe a few others that are suspicious to you as well, if you have time.

Yeah, I plan to. Hopefully before the damn deadline passes.

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Welcome Petunho.

I would like to say how sorry I am about my inactivity in the recent days. I know it's an old excuse, but a combo of my being insanely busy with work and some family crisis has made giving this game my all rather difficult. Things are calming down now, and I pledge that this won't be a problem should I live to see day 2.

I'm torn between voting maemuki or hiphop. Maemuki has rubbed me the wrong way this entire game. She is an active lurker, and I get a weird vibe when she does post. The only problem is that if she is lynched and turns up town we will have very little to work with.

Hiphop doesn't give me the willies the way Maemuki does, but the reasons for a Hiphop lynch are numerous. I like Starbuck post 183, it's a nice summary of some of those reasons. My issue is... I just don't think he's scum. If I'm wrong I'll have some major egg on my face... but he responds quickly to criticisms. Even if his logic is a bit skewed, he provides what his is. Post 206 is a nice example of this, it strikes me as an honest defense of his actions and his perspective. I think if he laid back more and maybe FOSed more than voted he wouldn't be in the jam he's in.

So, it may get us nowhere, but I'm voting for who I find the scummiest.

Vote: Maemuki

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I meant if you didn't know Mae was town. Wording always gets me.

The way you interepted it, oviously I can't answer it any better. I would not of lynched her if I knew she was town.

However, I was against voting for Mae, because besides lurking she didn't have anything that put her as scum. That is why I waited to the last 10 minutes before I voted.

I voted for two reasons:
1. She asked to be voted, I think because she wanted to get on the newbie list, because she signed up again as soon as I voted.
2. I was thinking 75% town, but that 25% I wasn't sure of. I couldn't be positive, so I had to vote.

Eh? You were against voting for Mae despite not thinking that she was scum?

You should only vote for two reasons, to place pressure on somebody, or because you truly believe them to be scum and want them lynched. Like Starbuck said- you never

have

to vote.

I voted Mae because I really thought she was scum. I never expected for people to jump on the wagon so quickly... just in time for the deadline. And the fact that you hammered Mae while admittedly not believing that she was even scum makes me very suspicious.

And as crazypianist said, asking why someone was NKed is a pretty WIFOM thing to do, unless there is an obvious frame up going on, which I don't see in this case.

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How can I be sure she wasn’t scum? I can’t, so I voted. I agree with one of iamausernames first posts. If I didn’t vote for Mae, I would of given up 22% chance of catching scum.

I voted Mae because I really thought she was scum. I never expected for people to jump on the wagon so quickly... just in time for the deadline. And the fact that you hammered Mae while admittedly not believing that she was even scum makes me very suspicious.

Your justification of your vote makes me very suspicious. You started the bw with the second vote on Mae. What do you think people might do so close to the deadline? I made a post saying she should at least vote for who she thinks is the scummiest, how is that suspicious?

FOS:startransmission

I don't find your saying that she (Mae) should vote for who is most suspicious scummy. I find you hammering her while not finding her scummy suspicious. Beyond suspicious actually- damning.

And what about my vote don't you understand? I expressed my uneasiness regarding mae very early on. I was in fact the first to challenge her. When I voted her it was close to the deadline and I felt I owed it to the proceedings to vote who I felt was the most scummy before deadline. It was within hours that both you and Starbuck unvoted and voted Mae.

You

hammered her... just before the deadline. And then you roll into day 2 saying that you never found the person you hammered scummy. Shit, this is an easy vote...

Vote: Hiphop

As far as our IC, I've written VRK off. May well be scum, but I can't point to enough to warrant a vote. It's just a loss. It's a symptom on this site, IC's often sign up for games they never end up playing in depth due to all the other games they are involved in, be it playing or modding.

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I told her to vote. I wanted everybody to vote. Wouldn't you vote for someone if you were in her situation?

Yep. That's an example of the behavior that led me to vote against her.

I told her to post something that everybody could look at. I wanted activity from her, is activity bad for the town?

Oh, I hate activity from the town.

Imo it isn't. In fact I believe that activity is what is the most beneficial to town, it is the best information available.

Brave stance.

It was not your vote that drew suspicion it was your justification of your vote. Don’t you read.

What about my justification don't you understand? And yes, I do read. I urge you to do more reading yourself, it helps with grammar and punctuation.

I voted Mae because I really thought she was scum. I never expected for people to jump on the wagon so quickly... just in time for the deadline.

This is the way I interpret it. “I never expected people to jump on a bw that is happening so close to the deadline. People shouldn’t have voted.” To me that is how scum talk.

I never expected for Mae to be lynched. I voted for who I found the most scummy, and I stand by my vote despite the result. I'm glad people voted, especially you. The timing, your reason, and your statements today is why I am voting for you.

Where do you get this hammering nonsense?

Are you high?

You hammered her.

Where is the nonsense?

I wanted her to vote. I would of done the same thing to vrk, except he wasn’t around. She responded to my 227, I responded back. Hammering no, helping yes.

You would have hammered VRK... if he was more active? I'm not following you. You didn't hammer her (you did) you were helping her? How is casting the deciding vote against somebody that you now say you never really found scummy helping anybody? Especially her?

Shit, this is an easy vote...

Ouch! Something scum will say.

Ouch! It's a fucking easy vote.

Vote: Hiphop

Then we have an omgus situation. However I find you very suspicious.

Vote: startransmission

Fair enough.

As far as our IC, I've written VRK off. May well be scum, but I can't point to enough to warrant a vote. It's just a loss. It's a symptom on this site, IC's often sign up for games they

never end up playing in depth due to all the other games

they are involved in, be it playing or modding.

And finally the buddying. You find Mae suspicious because she doesn’t post anything substantial, yet you say,” never end up playing in depth due to all the other games,” about Vrk. Looks like the same reason to me. In fact it is the same definition of lurking just worded differently. Why is VRK different than Mae? He is not. They both haven’t given us anything good. This is where Petunho comes in. He said Mae was acting the same as he was. Vrk is doing the same thing. That was my problem with Mae, one couldn’t tell if she was town or scum. VRK I can’t tell either, yet startransmission is willing to say he is town. WOW. I don’t believe this.

I was aware when I wrote that there would be an accusation of me defending VRK. To be clear, I'm insanely frustrated that in the last three games I've played the IC's have been close to worthless. People are now turning their attention to VRK, and I'd thought I'd weigh in- and that frustration is hard to disguise. He's been prodded now, and perhaps we'll get a substantial vote... but I'm not holding my breath. So- just because I voted Mae for being an active lurker doesn't mean I'm obligated to vote for all active lurkers in this game. Especially when there is an extremely scummy player (you) right in front of me.

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Thanks crazypianist1116 I needed that.

How does that affect your arguments with me?

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How does that affect your arguments with me?

Let’s see…
I did hammer, but I take the same stance that imausername did at the end of post 181 and what you said in post 17 that a lynch is better than no lynch.

If it comes down to a choice between lynching

anyone

and lynching no one, I will vote to lynch someone.

I still don’t get why you didn’t attack VRK like you did to Mae. Can’t you attack two people at once or is this impossible for you? There is always a FOS, which you seem to say in post 215 to use, which you don’t seem to use. I still don’t like your justification. Since the term hammering does not mean what I thought it meant, I would of attacked Vrk like I did to Mae hoping he would post something if he had replied to my post 227.

Of course a lynch is better than a no lynch, I'm not suspicious of you just because you hammered. The hammer vote is always scrutinized, but for me your hammer stands out because of the timing, and your reasons.

I voted for two reasons:
1. She asked to be voted, I think because she wanted to get on the newbie list, because she signed up again as soon as I voted.
2. I was thinking 75% town, but that 25% I wasn't sure of. I couldn't be positive, so I had to vote.

You hammered somebody that you say you felt was 75% town. You imply that you were forced to vote Mae because otherwise there would be a no lynch. I don't buy that, I tend to believe you are using that to clean your hands of Maes lynch. I think that after much vote hopping you saw an excellent opportunity after Starbuck put Mae at L-1 (a vote switch I hope to delve into my next post) to lynch her while acting like you're forced to do it for the sake of a lynch. You kill somebody who you say you felt was town and then use the 22% chance vs. 0% chance as an excuse. That and the classic "he or she wanted to be lynched/didn't care!" which I've heard before and is a ridiculous reason for voting somebody... especially when you think they are town. And then you have the balls to tell me that

my

justification for voting her was scummy. I voted for who I felt was the scummiest. I didn't have a solid read on anybody, but when the deadline approached and push came to shove I voted Mae. She had posted just enough to avoid being prodded, and when she did post there was never any substance. And I got a weird vibe from her posts, something on a gut level I couldn't put my finger on. So, with no other candidate that I felt comfortable voting for I voted Mae. When I did so we were quite close to the deadline, and I didn't anticipate the momentum to shift against Mae so suddenly. But, like I've said, I stand by my vote.

As for why I'm not attacking VRK like I did Mae... well there are a couple differences. I never really attacked Mae, I let it be known that I found her suspicious, and noted her lack of effort when it came to defending herself. While it's true that VRK didn't post much at the end of yesterday (the lack of a vote bothered me then and it bothers me still) or the beginning of today; when he had posted there was substance. That was what was lacking in any of Mae's posts, and what drew my attention to her. When VRK did post there was opinions and logics and argument etc. That's the distinction. Plus, as I've said before, when I voted Mae there was not another person that I found especially scummy, whereas today there is.

You seem to think that Mae's lurking was the only reason I voted her, and therefore I should only vote for lurkers. But, as VRK pointed out, everybody in this game with the exception of Starbuck and yourself have been prodded. (Starbuck was actually prodded, but not for lack of posting). I would be quite the hypocrite if I went around pointing fingers at people for lurking, as I've been guilty of it myself.

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My timing? How can you have a problem with my timing? I knew I would be aroung the final minutes of the day, so if I voted I would cut her off without her being able to make another post(for one can't post once one is lynched). So I waited letting her defend herself the way she deemed fit.

Yeah, my choice of words was somewhat poor. You make a decent point here, you did allow her the chance to at least try to make some argument for herself. But even if she had I doubt she would've been able to dig herself out of the hole she was in with so little time left, so it's easy for you to say you gave her a chance, when the only chance she had was you or VRK not hammering her. I suppose by timing I meant how quickly the tables turned against Mae, and you're not to blame for that.

There we have a misrepresentation. It was 25% chance of lynching scum not 22% chance. 9 people minus myself(because I am not scum) equals 8 people. 2 scum divided by 8 people equals 25% chance of finding scum. I was referring in that post of Mae being part of the 75% town. I never said how sure I was of her being town. If someone else wanted to put the hammer vote on Mae, because they actually believed she was scum, would have been fine with me. My vote was because I wanted a lynch.

Ok, I got the math mixed up. I was also confused about what you meant by the 25 75, I thought you meant that you were 75% sure that Mae was town. Your explanation makes better sense now, but I still feel it may be a crutch.

In post 252 you gave your justification for voting Mae after the lynch happened. That is where I found you suspicious. Nobody asked you for a justification from you. To me it sounds like you wrote your justification just so that nobody could question your vote that nobody questioned in the first place. To me it looks like you want to clear your name and leave no doubt that you honestly believed that Mae was scum and didn’t expect her to be lynched, when she clearly just might be. That is where your scumtell was. Your vote is not an issue, it is your justification in post 252.

I always like to supply a reason for my votes. In post 252 I was responding to your post 250, where you laid out your reasons for voting Mae. I found your reasons to be poor, and this is where I initially misunderstood the 75/25 thing. So in my response I pointed out what I thought was scummy about the reasons for your vote, and as a contrast pointed out the reasons for my vote. I wasn't defending my vote, I hold no guilt or remorse over it.

Funny how yesterday you said I was probably town and today I am scum, when I don’t believe that I changed any. Could it be because I FOS you? Is that why you think I am scum? Also, you seem to be tunneling on me, when there are two scum.

Holy cow, you really think that your FOS on me is why I'm voting for you? Quite a bit can happen in 44 posts, and that is how many lapsed between my saying that I don't think you're scum and me voting for you. Here's a quick summary some of those posts in between that led me to change my mind about you.

232: I didn't like asking the town if you should cast your vote. It's your decision, and it feels like that post served to making you more of an ambassador of the town instead of taking ownership of your vote and the hammer.

246: This is where my alarm bells (or spidey sense if you will) started to go off. Asking why somebody was NKed is very WIFOM. It's a conversation that rarely if ever accomplishes anything. I know the first time I was scum I asked that very question the next day. I felt it did two things for me, it was a subtle way of me saying "look, I'm not scum, I'm as in the dark as anybody else" and would also ideally take conversation into a dead end. It also serves as an ego trip, it's fun to watch people speculate on why you did something. It borders on gloating.

250: I've gone over my issues with this one in virtually every post since.

253: Yes, this is where you FOSed me (and where the 22% confusion came up), but you actually have a decent point in there. What irked me was that I what I said was suspicious was that you hammered somebody that you said you felt was town, and yet you ask me

I made a post saying she should at least vote for who she thinks is the scummiest, how is that suspicious?

It's not suspicious, I never said it was. You changed what it is that I found suspicious into something totally else that I never brought up. Another example of you bringing up how you were the good guy just trying to get info out of Mae because you thought she was town.

256: Neither scummy nor particularly helpful. I think everyone can point to a post they made well before the deadline that was intended to get some substance out of Mae. It doesn't add much credence to your claim that you were "helping" Mae by trying to get her to defend herself, with only hours to go. This is a big problem for me, you saying that you were looking out for her best interest (what with her being in the 75% camp) by trying to coax her into defending herself, and then being forced to hammer her when she did a (predictably) terrible job- despite leaning towards her being town. I think Bouche was onto something when he thought maybe you were trying to make your vote look innocent. This ties in with 232.

So that's a brief explanation of why my opinion of you changed. But... I'm not 100% on you being scum. Let's say... 75%. My reservations for voting you in 215 are still with me. Despite some logic I don't quite follow and there being good reasons (even in day 1, as I pointed out at the time) to vote for you, I still like your play. You are active, you respond quickly to criticisms and defend yourself. As for me tunneling on you, well that's true. You are my number one suspect, and we've been involved in a debate that has focused my attention. I do plan on throwing some other theories out there however.

You are in a dangerous place. You've been at L-1 for a few days and nobody has unvoted you yet, despite you actively defending yourself. Are you willing to claim? Also, other than me, who are you most suspicious of right now?

[startransmission]

No post for 24 hours? Seriously. Where is all the activity that looked so promising the beginning of the second day?

I share your frustration.

startransmission you were posting at a good rate. What happened? The sooner you get those theories out there the sooner they can be speculated on.

It's only been a day. I know how easygoing things are in Hillsboro, but here in Portland people work for a living.

So, there have been a few things I've been thinking over the past few days, and I'd like to throw some of those thoughts out. I'll share what I'm thinking and see if anything sticks. First off, I want to put down where some of my logic is coming from.

Day 1, Vote Count #11
Maemuki (5) <- Petunho, startransmission, iamausername, Starbuck, hiphop
hiphop (2) <- crazypianist1116, bouchedufou

This is the final vote count. I'm convinced that scum is somewhere on the Mae wagon. I don't believe Petunho to be scum, I got little scum read out of his predecessor and if he were scum he would be able to reasonably put hiphop at L-1 and avoid being the hammer. Nobody would question him as the momentum was going against hiphop anyhow. He instead chose to vote Mae, and supplied good reasoning. The next vote is myself. While I know myself to be town, none of you (except the mafia) do, so this part is a bit academic. But... I vote for Mae as well, about a day later. I say why I won't get on the hiphop wagon besides there being some valid reasons to vote him, and echo what I've said before about Mae. I found her scummier, and my vote makes two. Next is iamausername, about two hours after my vote- now is where things go fast. He supplies the same reasons as everybody else, and he is now proven town.

This is where things get tricky. Despite being very vocal against hiphop, once three votes quickly stack up against Mae, Starbuck moves into that sweet spot I was talking about with Petunho and hiphop and puts Mae at L-1. This happens within an hour of iamausersname vote.

And now the hammer. hiphop supplies it, just before the deadline. This is about two hours after Mae was placed at L-1. During that two hours both hiphop and Mae were active. Mae claims, but time is out. hiphop figures that a lynch is better than a no lynch (despite not thinking Mae was scum, which still bothers me) and does the deed.

So, given that my list of suspects is down to two, let's look at the possibilities.

1. Starbuck is scum. Her main candidate clearly fell through; with time running out the hiphop wagon was sputtering. Three votes quickly stack against another viable candidate. She has (as had virtually everybody else) already brought up her issues with Mae, so a vote would have precedent in argument. Soon (within an hour) after the third vote comes in she strikes, putting Mae at L-1 and avoiding being the hammer. This part is important, she doesn't wait too long for somebody else to grab the L-2 spot, she nabs it quite quickly. Nothing left to do now but hope that either VRK or hiphop takes the bait. Either way it's a win, either her primary candidate for a lynch is stuck with the hammer, or the IC is.

2. hiphop is scum. Everybody feels more comfortable with a Mae lynch because she was scummy, and once she's placed at L-1 hiphop takes advantage and uses the 22% or whatever thing as a crutch to do his dirty deed.

I'd like to jump to Petunhos excellent post 269.

Starbuck I have read your posts and the thing I was after is listed below.

Currently, I find hiphop the scummiest. ...

Vote: hiphop

I'm definitely staying with my vote.

204: Petunho votes for Mae

...he (hiphop) has been acting scummy, which is why my vote is where it is.

215: Start votes for Mae

Hiphop, has since, replaced in and has made himself look scummy all on his own

219: Iama votes for Mae

I'm in definite agreement. Maemuki has been the epitome of active lurking. ...

Unvote: hiphop
Vote: Maemuki

You all the way justificated strongly on your vote on hiphop and said that he was The scummy, but when you saw hiphop's lynch fading away, after me, start and iama voting, you went for the bandwagon that was gaining pace.

I wasn't after the reasons why you saw Mae scummy, but the reason why you

changed

the vote. It seems scummy to hop on the other wagon after you posted this on your post 219 where you voted for Mae.

Maemuki is my #2 suspicion

If she was your number two suspicion why did you changed the vote on her from number one suspicion?

For scums it all the same who the town lynches as long as it's townie. You saw that VRK posted his absence, you calculated you coudn't get hiphop lynched, because the voting situation was:

According to my unofficial vote count, this is where we are currently at:


Day 1, Vote Count
hiphop (3) <- crazypianist1116, bouchedufou, Starbuck
Maemuki (3) <- Petunho, startransmission, iamausername
iamausername <- hiphop

Not voting: Maemuki, Vel-Rahn Koon.

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

There was only VRK and Mae who could have jumped on the hiphop wagon, but there was crazy, bouch, and hiphop that could jump on Mae's wagon.

You calculated 1+1 = Lynch Mae.

I calculate VRK + Starbuck = Scumpair.

Sorry I quoted the whole thing, I'm actually not sure how to link a post. The point is that Petunho lays out very well why Starbucks vote change is questionable. Petunho actually first asks Starbuck about this vote change in post 258. Starbuck responds,

@Petunho - If you go back in my posts, you will see that my second suspicion was of Mae. Her active lurking (coming in enough just to post something small and then leave again) had me feeling that she was in fact scum. Hiphop did not leave my radar and I said that as well. His hammer of her, especially after his contradictions that I found at the top of this post, are extremely scummy in my eyes.

Which is a reasonable response. But like I said earlier in my debate with hiphop, everyone can say that they were suspicious of Mae before her wagon took off. Petunho isn't satisfied though, and that's where 269 comes in. A post I obviously really like. A response from Starbuck would've been great, but instead...

As for yesterday's lynch, it was quite obvious when it was coming down to the wire that hiphop wasn't going to be lynched. 2 more people would have to vote for hiphop and the only candidates were startransmission, Maemuki, iamausername, PEtunho, and Vel-Rahn Koon (keep in mind this was before Starbuck changed the vote). VRK obviously wasn't going to be on. Startransmission had already said he thought Maemuki was more scummy than hiphop as had you. Even if Maemuki had voted for hiphop, there wouldn't have been enough votes on him to lynch. And Starbuck already said that she found Maemuki suspicious.

It's obvious that a lynch on someone suspicious is better than no lynch and that's why Starbuck changed her vote from #1 to #2.

FoS: Petunho

Immediately dismisses Petunhos logic, which I feel is sound, and strongly defends Starbucks vote. Also reminds everybody that Starbuck never liked Mae in the first place, making her vote a natural switch. Then puts an FOS on Petunho... for what? For questioning Starbuck?

In 275 Petunho expresses his frustration at Crazy answering for Starbuck. @ Petunho... do you mind pointing out other instances? You say it's not the first time...

Wow. When I started this I wasn't too sure about how I felt about this theory, but it seems that putting all this down has emboldened my suspicions. hiphop, you're not off my radar.

Unvote, Vote: Starbuck

And FOS: crazypianist as her partner.

[startransmission]

Secondly, who is this we business. You are an individual. You don't need other people to decide for you.

Mmm, yes. You seemed to feel otherwise in post 232.

@startransmission how? Here we were arguing together and you never convinced me on one point. You make one post on the person who I thought was town, and I am enlightened.
For that

Fos:Starbuck

I am not entirely convinced, but she moved up on my scummy list.

Why couldn't you have done that earlier?

What am I supposed to convince you about? If you're town then there's nothing for me to convince you about, the same is true if you're scum. If you mean convincing you about my innocence... well, sorry I couldn't do it. I explained what you found scummy, if you have further questions please ask. I really don't spend a lot of thought on defending myself from OMGUS votes.

You guys work in Portland? Is that what they do there? I am working 56 hrs this week, but I still make a post every day.

By the way did you just put your loaction in.

Location has been there. We should grab a drink once the game is over!

That's quite an accusation to make. I had two candidates that I thought were scummy, and Mae had enough time to post a quick thought but never give us any type of analysis. I voted for her because on Day 1, a lynch is better than no lynch, and therefore we can garner information. Hiphop placed that hammer rather quickly, even after Mae said she was town. I wanted more information out of Mae, and she wouldn't give any, which is why I did not remove my vote from her.

I know it's a big accusation. I've spent the last week going over what I found scummy with hiphop, and as you are the other Mae voter that has me suspicious, I felt it worthwhile to put down what I felt was scummy about you. One of you two is scum, or I'm the biggest boob ever... which it quite possible. So I went over what the possible motivations would be depending on which of you was scum. I went into that post not expecting to have the floodgates open, and when I was done I found that you being scum just made more sense.

Your response is good, but my vote will stick for the time being. We have time, and my vote could well go back to hiphop. I just need to follow through on my nagging suspicions, and let others weigh in as well.

As far as me piggybacking, I disagree. I know I quoted Petunho and praise one of his posts, but that's only because it's a post that lined up perfectly with what's been on my mental backburner for a while. The fact is he never voted for you, and after crazypianist shot him down in 270 he didn't pursue that line of questioning. But note it all you want.

[startransmission]

technically, I already claimed town in post 288. I said I was not scum. Which in this game means I am town, because there are no neutral roles. Like I said I thought when someone asked me to claim, I thought claiming meant role claiming, which I still won't do until it gets closer to lynch day.

In fact now that I think about it claiming town is stupid. Of course people are going to claim town, so why ask them to claim?

Starbuck kinda covered this, but claiming refers to whether or not somebody has a special role. That's why it's important not to claim until you absolutely have to if you do have a special role. If you're a cop or a doctor that's info you want to keep to yourself for as long as possible, as revealing that prematurely would make you a scum target. You never want the mafia to have any more information than necessary.

Also, I'm currently in relay marathon, and I won't be back home for 36 hours or so... just a heads up.

[startransmission]

I'm back in VA. Will have a post covering page 13 in the next 24 hours.

Vel

Excellent.

I'm still convinced that either Starbuck or Hiphop is scum. I'm torn as to whom I'll end up voting for, and their back and forth isn't convincing me either way.

I'm also still very suspicious of Crazy, his arguments with Petunho aren't doing it for me. He still really hasn't addressed the FoS on Petunho either.

[startransmission]

I'm trying to prove the fact that you still have not claimed your role and I am completely out in the open. What are you hiding, hiphop?

This role claiming business is getting tiring. You both claim town... if you're looking for something more out of hiphop (who is not at L-1) then that's fishing. I suppose I was hoping you'd say "I'm trying to prove the fact that I'm town and you're scum".

[startransmission]

A Hiphop/Starbuck pair doesn't really make sense- Starbuck was hammering Hiphop quite a bit back in day one. And now Hiphop is hammering Starbuck. One of them being mafia I'd agree with, but both? I don't quite follow your read that they're both mafia.

I tend to agree. I brought up the possibility of a hiphop/Starbuck pair in post 159. Starbuck responded to it reasonably, and I never felt it held too much water in the first place. I was concerned however, that as soon as I brought up the fact that it appeared they were working in tandem they immediately got into a debate. It seemed like a manufactured conflict, and the timing was fishy. But as bouche points out Starbuck has been on hiphop way too much, scumbuddies rarely put each other at L-1 just for the sake of appearances.

Despite being somewhat underwhelmed by VRKs solo postolo he brings up good points. I noticed the buddying in post 300 as well, and the claiming debate (which needs to die) doesn't do any favors to anybody. In fact, I'm not sure if it hurt Starbuck or hiphop worse.

Deadline is close... things have gotten very quiet. @Everybody (except starbuck and hiphop obviously)... if the deadline was today... would you rather lynch hiphop or Starbuck? And why

specifically

?

And I still need to hear from Crazy regarding his FoS...

[startransmission]

I am going to try to connect Petunho/Jeromus and Startransmission. The reason for this is because Petunho votes Maemuki, and Startransmission next post is the

second

vote on Maemuki. Day two, Startransmission votes Starbuck and Petunho’s next post is the

second

vote on Starbuck. Interesting. Very interesting.

That is interesting. I'm embarrassed to admit I never noticed that. I half expected for there to be accusations of me buddying up to him after fawning over one of his posts, and also assuming he was town in the same post. But scumbuddies? Your case is pretty weak. Especially the stuff with Jeromus. And I'm always less active on day 1 than any other day. If you want to meta that then be my guest.

Also, my vote for Starbuck was not because of Petunho. I just quoted him because a post he had made lined up with some nagging suspicions I had been having. Our debate had reached an impasse, and we had time... so I argued a case and placed a vote on Starbuck. I wanted to explore other possibilities. I am 99% sure either you or Starbuck is scum. I had only placed pressure on you, and I wanted to try the shoe on the other foot. Petunho had not followed up on his arguments, and I didn't need him to make my case. His earlier points about Starbucks vote change just happened to serve my case.

Start if Starbuck is lynched and flips town, would you still think that Crazy is still scum?

Eh, it wouldn't convince me he wasn't scum, but I wouldn't really have any case against him. I would likely be too consumed with lynching you.

[quote="bouchedufou]I must admit that I took Petunho/Startran's word that Starbuck's vote caused the swing towards Maemuki, but hiphop and crazy are prompting me to read back over and look again at their assertions.[/quote]

Slow down there, I don't recall ever saying that Starbucks vote caused the swing towards Mae. If any vote was a momentum changer it was iamausersnames. My only problem with Starbucks vote was that it came in less than an hour after iamausersnames... and the reason for the vote change. She had been after hiphop all this time and as soon (immediately) as momentum shifted against Mae she changed her vote, leaving the hammer for either her top lynch pick (hiphop) or the IC. I've gone over all this already.

I like my cases against both hiphop and Starbuck, but I'm leaning towards hiphop being scum. We have two days, and until the deadline is imminent I'll let them talk as much as possible before I make my final decision. Are they both at L-1 now?

Unvote

Just to make sure we can use these next two days to get as much info as possible.

[startransmission]

I don't have another pairing I can find at this point. I proposed it mainly because, if they are pair, Starbuck hammering on hiphop was exactly what she should have done, since hiphop was being scummy. You're sort of implying that they would either ignore one another or defend each other. That's not optimal scum play - if your partner acts scummy, you should attack him and try to get him lynched. This is where the term bussing comes from; it means to throw your partner under a bus, and therefore make yourself look better.

I understand where you're coming from, but I just don't see it. Starbuck was really after hiphop during the last half of day 1. She pursued his lynch and in many ways led the charge, despite being the third voter. If they were partners I could see Starbuck bussing hiphop if he was an awful player and his lynch was a sure thing, but she voted for him fairly early on, and kept that vote there until it was clear the momentum had shifted. If she was trying to bus him then that shit was pretty cold, and above all unnecessary. Not impossible, but it seems like a pretty big stretch.

@Crazy- thanks for that post. It's good to read a well researched and explained post that reaffirms my suspicions. I've said it a million times, but I'd bet the farm that either hiphop or Starbuck is scum... and I really want to put my vote in the right place. hiphop was my first choice, and even while I presented my Starbuck case and placed pressure on her, I was leaning hiphop. Most of your post contains stuff that has already been said, but it did help wipe the last smudge of doubt out of my head.

So, I'll be voting for hiphop tomorrow. If my vote means his lynch, I actually hope to be the hammer. I've spent so much time arguing with him that I kinda savor the chance.

Who is suspicious of me for attacking Starbuck? Only you it seems

I believe VRK and Starbuck and others have brought it up. I for one found it suspicious. You OMGUS me, we have a big debate... then I switch gears for a second, and you come around and vote for the person you said you thought was most likely town based off the argument of the person you think is most likely scum? Of course people are going to find that suspicious.

The justification that Start did was unnecessary. Since he justified before the lynch, did he really need to do it afterwards?

I addressed this already

. I wasn't justifying anything, I was pointing out what was wrong with your reasons for voting Mae by presenting mine (and everybody elses) reasons for voting Mae as a

contrast

to your reasons. This is a dead horse, yet you keep beating it.

@bouch Now that I read back, your vote on me seems the same as my vote on Mae. Strange how nobody attacks you for it.

Seems the same? Is he hammering you and then saying he never thought you were scum? His vote for you is not even in the same ballpark. And way to play the victim card.

@town- you lynch me, I flip town, what would you do? This is who I find scummiest vote:startransmission

If you flip town then I will go after Starbuck. The more important question that town should be asking themselves is when you flip scum, who do we go after next? I'm in the same predicament that VRK is... I can't get a scumbuddy read on anybody.

[startransmission]

I would agree with myself but after looking back for posts it seems really really weird that everybody are against hiphop. What we are facing here?

If hiphop flips scum it's probable that his partner bussed him, unless you or crazy is his partner. I know I would. The timing of the votes can be a clue... but that's something that can really only be tackled on day 3.

A) hiphop and his partner are doing great job distacing themselves.
B) Scums are doing great job getting hiphop lynched.

I lean towards option B. Not to antagonize you, but hiphops obsession with us being partners could be a means of distancing himself from you.

Could hiphop and his scumbuddy agreed that they will attack hiphop from the start to get other look really good? This would go to extreme tactics and I haven't played enough to wittness this... no yes I have. BattleMage did this on my Mini 533 where he replaces me as scum. He bussed his buddy on day 3. I'm very intrigued on this case.

I was lucky enough to play in a game with BM once, I hope I get to again in the future, he's a fun player. I doubt that if hiphop is scum there was a discussion during the night about any possible bussing. hiphop came into day 2 not being very high on anybody's scum list, with possibly the exception of Starbuck. He made a mess of things pretty soon... I'm sure the (possible) bussing was improvised.

There isn't question if there is 2 scums on hiphops bandwagon. Everybody are on it!

So you don't believe hiphop to be scum? I know your vote is on Starbuck, but you yourself point out how scummy hiphop is. I'm confused by this statement.

Ok, two hours give or take. Now is the time for some activity... I'd like to hear from Starbuck and VRK before the deadline.

[startransmission]

EBWOP

A) hiphop and his partner are doing great job distacing themselves.
B) Scums are doing great job getting hiphop lynched.

I lean towards option A. Not to antagonize you, but hiphops obsession with us being partners could be a means of distancing himself from you.

[startransmission]

*crickets chirping*

[startransmission]

Ok, I hope I'm making the right decision. I believe I am.

Vote: hiphop

[startransmission]

Hiphop flipping town surprised me quite a bit.

I'll bet.

But it did surprise me. I would apologize to hiphop, but his behavior did scum alot of favors, and town none.

As promised I'm going after Starbuck. Please see my post 287 for exactly why.

Vote: Starbuck

We're at lylo now... we have to be right on this, and I'm positive that Starbuck is scum.

[startransmission]

Er... Startran, your post 287 does not explain why you're going after Starbuck. It only states why you were going after hiphop.

My bad, I meant post 299.

Dammit. But I thought Starbuck was innocent. She defended hiphop when he replaced in, rather than just go along with an easy lynch.

I accused her of defending, or rather taking hiphop under her wing, in post 159. She denies ever defending him in post 160. And at what point on Day 1 was hiphop an easy lynch? He made himself look bad, got two votes, and Starbuck supplied a third- that didn't even put him at L-1. When iamausersname voted Mae that made her a potential easy lynch, and Starbucks abrupt vote switch put her at L-1. I lay that out in post 299... sorry about the confusion.

[startransmission]

@start - Where did I deny ever defending him? That's a very strong accusation and if you are going to make it, I would like to see a direct quote.

So when did you defend him?

As I said, I brought up in post 159 that it seemed that you were perhaps taking hiphop under your wing, and defending his early posts. You responded in the very next post (160) that I was incorrect. I brought this up only to correct bouche. I don't see how this is a very strong accusation, you as well as me and several others have been on hiphops case for alot of day 1 and all of day 2. This has little to do with my case against you.

I also DID make my case on Mae and DID state that besides hiphop that she was scummiest to me. I was wrong. Unfortunately now, we are in LYLO. We need to be very careful.

So you made cases against the two townies that making a case against was easiest. Especially when other townies shared their frustration of Maes play. It was easy to piggyback, and the timing of your vote switch on Day 1 suggests that is exactly what you did. You're good at being scum, and good scum keep their options open.

You came right out of the gate voting and I think you are trying to push for a quicklynch.

Nope, I'd like to take full advantage of this day- as I don't know who your partner is. In fact, if others put you at L-1 early, I'm pulling my vote. I don't want to run the risk of your partner bussing you and ending the day too early.

And anyways, I said at the end of day 2 that if hiphop flipped town I would be going after you, so there shouldn't be any surprise here.

[startransmission]

@ Starbuck, let's say you're town. Who do you suspect as scum right now?

I'll lay out my case against you

again

tomorrow, but in the meantime we have time, and I want to know where you would place your vote.

[startransmission]

Well, this bodes poorly for a town win. Scummy McScummerson and I are the only ones posting, and she still hasn't responded to my question about who she finds scummy.

jesus christ you people

QFT

[startransmission]

but who is number two? I was thinking start is probably town, but I'm not terribly excited by the fact that he's drumming up accusations against starbuck (piggybacking) and then can't or won't provide examples. Either respond to starbuck's request or come up with a better argument - this is something you're accusing starbuck of doing, yet you're doing it yourself. You're also using a subtle Appeal to Emotion with 384.

What I'm saying isn't coming out of left field. She asks me to point out where she said she never defended hiphop, and I point to post 160. I'm not going to go through the trouble of making a wall o' text quotewar post about that, because it's irrelevent and has nothing to do with my case. Next she asks where she piggybacks... I'm already making a case that she switched her vote to Mae when it was convenient for her to do so, and the fact that she expressed dislike for Maes behavior long before she put her vote on her isn't convincing me of anything.

And what appeal to emotion? 384 was rather regrettable, but I'm frustrated at the silence.

The opening sentence of 378 would tend to be a null-tell, given that we now know that hiphop is Town, so why bring it up? And the rest of the case is you saying she piggy backed against the two easiest players. Would you have voted for anyone different?

No, I'm happy with my votes, if not the outcomes. My point is that it's easy to set up a precedent for voting somebody when the wagon arrives if you've already echoed what town has to say about that person. When it's an obvious problem (like Mae or hiphop) it's a wet dream because you can actually attack and appear to be scumhunting. She says she had pointed out her issues with Mae before she switched votes, and my point is that's what good scum do. This wagons gone kaput? No problem, I can jump on this one, I've already complained about the person involved.

But, I don't see how you can call any of 378 a case.

Disregard the hiphop stuff (this all came from me responding to bouche's post 375) I want to be done with it. The second paragraph ties in with my case completely.

Therefore I'm going to throw out another radical idea for a pair -

starbuck and start

.

Holy shit. First it was Starbuck and hiphop as the crazy pairing, and now it's Starbuck and I? If we were partners then this little ruse leading to me bussing her would not be necessary. We could have easily played these last two days as we have been and gotten the people we wanted dead lynched and nked without ever really having to work in concert. In fact the only time Starbuck and I communicated on Day 2 was when I voted her. And frankly, the level of discussion today would have been ace for Starbuck and I were we scumbuddies. No bussing necessary, we could go for the win together.

Look, you get one point of my case, but I think you're confusing some other observational stuff as part of my case. My case is simple and kinda weak in that it makes one big assumption, and that only I and scum know that I'm town. I'll quote myself, as I love to do that.

Day 1, Vote Count #11
Maemuki (5) <- Petunho, startransmission, iamausername, Starbuck, hiphop
hiphop (2) <- crazypianist1116, bouchedufou

This is the final vote count. I'm convinced that scum is somewhere on the Mae wagon. I don't believe Petunho to be scum, I got little scum read out of his predecessor and if he were scum he would be able to reasonably put hiphop at L-1 and avoid being the hammer. Nobody would question him as the momentum was going against hiphop anyhow. He instead chose to vote Mae, and supplied good reasoning. The next vote is myself. While I know myself to be town, none of you (except the mafia) do, so this part is a bit academic. But... I vote for Mae as well, about a day later. I say why I won't get on the hiphop wagon besides there being some valid reasons to vote him, and echo what I've said before about Mae. I found her scummier, and my vote makes two. Next is iamausername, about two hours after my vote- now is where things go fast. He supplies the same reasons as everybody else, and he is now proven town.

This is where things get tricky. Despite being very vocal against hiphop, once three votes quickly stack up against Mae, Starbuck moves into that sweet spot I was talking about with Petunho and hiphop and puts Mae at L-1. This happens within an hour of iamausersname vote.

And now the hammer. hiphop supplies it, just before the deadline. This is about two hours after Mae was placed at L-1. During that two hours both hiphop and Mae were active. Mae claims, but time is out. hiphop figures that a lynch is better than a no lynch (despite not thinking Mae was scum, which still bothers me) and does the deed.

So, given that my list of suspects is down to two, let's look at the possibilities.

1. Starbuck is scum. Her main candidate clearly fell through; with time running out the hiphop wagon was sputtering. Three votes quickly stack against another viable candidate. She has (as had virtually everybody else) already brought up her issues with Mae, so a vote would have precedent in argument. Soon (within an hour) after the third vote comes in she strikes, putting Mae at L-1 and avoiding being the hammer. This part is important, she doesn't wait too long for somebody else to grab the L-2 spot, she nabs it quite quickly. Nothing left to do now but hope that either VRK or hiphop takes the bait. Either way it's a win, either her primary candidate for a lynch is stuck with the hammer, or the IC is.

2. hiphop is scum. Everybody feels more comfortable with a Mae lynch because she was scummy, and once she's placed at L-1 hiphop takes advantage and uses the 22% or whatever thing as a crutch to do his dirty deed.

So, my logic for this whole argument is that I'm positive that scum was on the Mae wagon. Process of elimination leads me to Starbuck. I know that people can point out that I may be the scum on that wagon, but all I can say to that is look at the timing. It can also be pointed out that perhaps only town was on that wagon, and both scum looked on with glee. Perhaps, but again I would point to Starbucks timing.

[startransmission]

Elmo, can we get a prod on Starbuck?

[startransmission]

Bouche, I'll get to your concerns in a moment, in the meantime I'll sleep and sober up.

What the fuck is going on here? I know Starbuck has a (somewhat) decent excuse for not posting, what's the deal with the rest of you?

Mod, can we get a prod on... everybody?

[startransmission]

Ok, responding to prod. I see nothing has happened since my last post.

I will say that I'm interested in peoples cases against each other, as precious little those have been. But barring some unforseen revelation, I won't be moving my vote. My mind is made up, we can discuss who Starbucks partner is tomorrow. Having one less townie as a suspect will make that easier tomorrow.

And I happen to agree with Starbuck regarding Bouched. I'm sorry there's no cop, but you're gonna have to man up and make a decision. Read, think, and take a position one way or another. We need everyone playing.

[startransmission]

Hey, welcome Zorblag, pleasure to be in a game with you again.

Well I claim Vanilla Townie. I think that it's pretty unlikely at this point that we have a cop or doctor. If we did the game would essentially be over. The only scenario I can imagine is if the cop investigated only the people that were NKed, and the doctor would have to have equally rotten luck.

[startransmission]

Who would you like to claim next?

Well, as Starbuck has already claimed vanilla I suppose either you or crazy would be my top pick for a claim.

Let's go with you.

Also, since getting responses from people is like pulling teeth lately would you mind posting what you think of the game so far? What do you make of my case against Starbuck? What do you think of Crazy's assertion that bouche and I are scum? Just something to talk about while we wait for people to claim.

Welcome Zorblag!

Hey Starbuck! If you have time could you post something that's more than one sentence? How about a LoS, or even just who your main two suspects are and why?

@Mod- can we get a prod on Bouchedufou please?

[startransmission]

Troll, I got 10 bucks that says we wait a full week before everyone gets around to claiming. And when they do I don't think we'll see anything other than "vanilla". Analysis of players and their posts is all we have... waiting for this claim is a waste of time- with all due respect.

I don't mean to seem rude, but I've been in this particular game for a couple of months, and I want to win this one. This one means more to me than most other games, and I hate to watch time slip while we wait for people to claim. And my strong feeling is there are no special town roles, and that mafia won't stick their necks out to pretend otherwise. It's lylo, so let's all talk.

Anyone consider that the reason that some people have gotten so quiet is that a no lynch means town loses? If we lose let's make it because a wrong choice was made, not because no choice was made.

[startransmission]

I'm also concerned about Start because it seems like, particularly after post 416, that you are invested in this game to win because you are on the scum team.

What about that post indicates that I'm on the scum team? Having a vested interest in the game and wanting to promote posting and discussion is a scumtell?

[startransmission]

If you'd like to win this game then I'd recommend applying just a bit more patience for now. Given your views I can see how you don't think this is useful but a mass claim, if done right, should help the town if only to be sure about the situation that they're in. I'm less convinced than you are that there will be no power role claims but even if that turns out to be true we'll be helped down the road by committing scum to a particular position.

I see your point here and I agree. As it turns out there were no power roles claimed, but I like your point about committing scum to a particular position. Also, you're right about me needing to be a little more patient. I was frustrated by how much the game has slowed down today, and I was doubtful that we would get a mass claim in a reasonable time frame. Thankfully we did.

startransmissions's vote came as soon as the day started. He sites his post 287 for reasons (though I don't think he meant that as 287 doesn't really have anything to do with Starbuck.) His main case throughout day two seems to have been based on the how Starbuck was part of the wagon on Maemuki day one which looks like it involved a fair amount of action right at the deadline. I'm really not seeing a case that he should be comfortable enough to vote with his opening post in what he knows is LyLo.

Yeah, I meant post 299.

What other case do I have,

especially

since we are at LyLo? I don't really have much of a case against anybody else. Is it unreasonable for me to think that there were scum on the Mae wagon? The combination of Starbucks timing and the fact that she is the only remaining person on that wagon that I don't know to be town is as strong a case as I can muster at this point. And I don't think it's weak.

Starbuck's vote on startransmission doesn't actually look particularly better to me than startransmissions does. I'm not following the case she's trying to make at all at the end there. It seems more like an excuse to vote for startransmission than anything else (especially when she says that she'd been getting a townie reading from him until what she's saying is a contradiction.) She's experienced enough to be able to realize that his vote staying on her as long as it has in LyLo should make it clear that he's got to be scum if she's town.

Thank you for noticing the contradiction. To be fair it's (hypothetically) possible that both Starbuck and I are both town and she just figured I was just a townie that was insanely wrong and was barking up the wrong tree. But I don't believe that for a second, and her case against me was something that I've been waiting for. I wasn't sure how it was going to come, and I think the fact that her case against me has come so late and is so weak shows that she is desperate for some excuse to vote me. I would imagine the mafia pair hoped to find a better case against me, have one vote for me, hope that an undecided townie would vote for me based off that case, and let the other hammer me. And I knew it would be Starbuck presenting a case- her partner is flying under the radar right now, and probably wants to keep it that way.

For the other two players, I don't want to focus on them too much today as I don't have any interest in lynching either of them given the alternative.

Again I agree. As I said earlier I'm interested in other peoples cases against each other, but unless somebody convincingly admits to being scum my vote won't be moving. My focus is solely on Starbuck, and I hope to convince people that she is the right lynch.

[startransmission]

I'm claiming that both you and startransmission are taking his vote in LyLo too lightly. What do you make of that assertion? Is it a fair criterion to be looking at? Does it describe your attitudes correctly?

I'm taking LyLo too lightly? I have made up my mind that Starbuck is scum, and I voted for her right off the bat. I've explained why I believe Starbuck to be scum, and I really believe my case against her holds water. I have refused to get into distracting discussions as to who the partner might be, because that conversation is academic unless we lynch scum today. That is a discussion for tomorrow, if it comes.

I have been posting content, answering questions, and presenting arguments. I don't see how I'm taking this lightly. I recently posted how important winning this is to me (which is apparently a scumtell) and I think my history in this particular game demonstrates that.

Starbuck on the other hand has posted several one sentence posts today, and when she does say something it's badly explained or just doesn't make a lot of sense. That includes her vote for me. So if anyone is taking things lightly it is her.

@Crazy- what about my case against Starbuck do you feel needs to be clarified/improved? Why does it bother you that it hasn't changed much since Day 2, considering that there has been very little content from her so far today?

Looking back at your day two play and your reasons for voting hiphop I see that you're using a very similar argument to startransmission; you found the fact that hiphop chose to hammer some he had a neutral read on at deadline rather than letting a no lynch occur scummy. Do you think that no lynch would be preferable to a lynch you weren't certain of at deadline on day one in general? Am I just spouting nonsense when I say that a no lynch is one of the worst things that can happen to a town day one in this setup?

I have to correct you here.

One

of my beefs with hiphop was that he chose to hammer somebody that he said he felt was

town

. Not neutral, he was specific about that. If he had said neutral I would not have been on him so hard, at least not that early in Day 2. There were other factors in my suspicion with him. I absolutely agree that a no-lynch is one of the worst things that can happen. I made clear that the hammer itself was not what raised my suspicion.

[startransmission]

You're acting as though it was reasonable to cast it before doing anything to get new information (such as the mass claim) which simply isn't true.

I made clear at the end of Day 2 that if hiphop flipped town I would be going after Starbuck. I followed through. I wasn't interested in a quicklynch, which I pointed out, so I don't see how my vote does anything to curb the amount of information we can get today. In fact the vote is there because a.) I believe Starbuck to be scum and I want to be clear on that and b.) I wanted to engage Starbuck in a debate. That would help me and the rest of the town with who her partner might be. Sadly Starbuck and company have done nothing to engage with todays proceedings. So I might as well not even have a vote on her for all the good it's doing.

And I was skeptical of a mass claim

because

of the inactivity. Because as you say Starbuck and I are the focus for a lynch today I wanted to use the time to convince people that my assertion that she is scum has some merit. But you were right, I've never done a mass claim before and I was dubious of its merits. But people claimed and now everyone is locked into a role. So, lesson learned.

Additionally, as I've already said, you jumped right in and cast your vote despite the fact that it was based on a reason that you shouldn't have found compelling anyhow. If you're trying to win the game then as town you should absolutely get every edge you can to be sure that you're maximizing your chances of hitting scum in LyLo and you've completely failed to do that. If you are town then you're lucky that you happened to latch on to a scum acting in a way that runs counter to their own interest near deadline on day one.

I'm sorry we have a difference of opinion on the strength of my case. I find my reason to be very compelling. I don't have much of a case on anybody else. As I've said, in my opinion because it's lylo I'm going to press for a lynch on the person I believe is scum. I appreciate any discussion as to whom else could be scum, but unless I see an airtight case presented, my vote sticks. And frankly, Starbucks play today is so inconsistent with her play earlier in the game that it surprises me. It appears that she has either given up or is purposefully posting her one sentence posts to avoid prod and replacement and waste the towns time, giving no information, and waiting for the inactivity to turn into a no lynch.

And her vote for me is such a scumtell I can't believe it's not being challenged more.

That vote as it was cast is only reasonable if you're scum and hoping that people would follow your lead without stopping to look at the situation. Claiming otherwise (which you're continuing to do even now) is taking voting in LyLo lightly. It has nothing to do with your level of participation.

Again, you make it sound like I'm pushing for a quicklynch, something I made clear I didn't want at the beginning of the day. I'm just letting my frame of mind be known, and I would hope that town does look around and make a thought out decision on who deserves their vote.

As for hiphop, he knew that he was town at the end of day one. There were eight other players of which two were scum and six were town. When he says that he thinks he's got a 75% chance of hitting town he's giving what he would if he didn't have any information. It's absolutely a neutral read no matter how you want to spin it.

I might be misunderstanding you here. hiphop knew that he was town when he got his role pm. The math is right on the odds of hitting town, but that's not what I was talking about when I said I found it scummy when he said that he thought Mae was town. I wasn't the first person to point out that it was a suspicious statement, so I don't see how I'm spinning anything.


Welcome DarklightA. I know it's quite a bit of reading, but I'm anxious to read your take on things.

[startransmission]

Listen, I see your point. I just know I have scum in my sights. I can't shake that feeling. You call it luck (if I'm right) and I call it deductive reasoning with a dash of logic and instinct.

You bring up some instances of games where a quick vote in LyLo cost the game. If you have the time I'd like you to read the last day of a game I finished up a few weeks ago. I was the cop and led the charge to lynch the IC. I was wrong, and luckily that game wasn't at LyLo. If you can be bothered, read that last day (it's brief) and tell me if I'm making a similar mistake here. I don't think I am. And I had much more information in that game compared to this one.

viewtopic.php?t=11618&postdays=0&postor ... &start=350

I bring it up because of your recent post, and also to illustrate how sensitive I am (now) to myopic cases and lynches. I'm really trying to not be careless, but I do believe I have scum in my scope.

[startransmission]

Also, this game is almost lost. Not to be a negative nancy, but we got about two days at most.

Mod, please prod Starbuck and Crazy.

[startransmission]

My thoughts on Start and why I voted him:

Startransmission started out the game with a pretty aggressive tone.

He was definitely overaggressive towards Bouched when answering his question about a no lynch in post 17, and towards BagSquad in post 28. He apologizes for his swearing in post 44, but I took his comment as being aggressive, even without the cuss word.

Well that's digging deep. I said it then and I'll say it again, I wasn't trying to be rude, and I don't think that I was. I wasn't even being all that aggressive, I just feel strongly about no lynches. I don't insult people or intimidate them, and you'll find no examples of that in this game. And my language in post 28 is in context with Bags post 27. Again, I don't see how what I'm saying or how I'm saying it is a scumtell.

You didn't seem to have a complaint about this at the time. You comment on the discussion in your opening post, but by that point I think it was clear that I meant no offense, and most people didn't seem to think I was out of line in any way.

I also do not care for post 152. He's right in the fact that the discussion had turned away from the subject at hand, but a stupid thing (like asking for a prod) was going to be used for a case, and I felt I needed to correct that information. It bothers me that he pretty much didn't do anything to help move the conversation along, but could post long enough to complain about it.

I regretted that one the moment I posted it. I think it can be agreed that patience is not my strong suit in the game. You have a point here, and it was a dumb thing to get annoyed about.

Something bothers me here:

Unvote, Vote: BagSquad

. Based on what everyone has posted so far, he seems most likely to be scum.

>:(

Vote:

iamausername

If you're going to break out an OMGUS at least write something.

I do want to know what iamusername found especially scummy about your earlier posts though.

BagSquad didn't have any earlier posts. His first one of the game was that vote on iamausername. I'm wondering why he couldn't be bothered to scroll up to re-read and see this.

That's a very early bit of confusion. I think I confused Bag for Jeromus or something. It wasn't laziness, it was mistaken identity. Why is this being brought up? Why does this bother you enough that it is part of your case against me?

In post 80, he admits to having an eye on Maemuki, and he seems to be speculating a bit. Knowing now that both Mae and hiphop are town, it seems his was trying to deflect suspicion. His very next post 92, he backpedals off that pretty quickly. In post 215, he jumps right back on Maemuki again and votes her. We don't hear from him again until 5 days later, well after Maemuki has been lynched.

By the time post 80 rolled around my main suspect at the time had just been replaced. Mae had been posting fluff, and I pointed it out. I wanted to get her attention, and bring up something that I had noticed to the group. She responded, and I didn't really have a case against her, so I backed off a little bit. Plus, by post 92 there were other things on my mind. When I voted for her 120 posts later her it was because her behavior had not only changed but gotten worse, and she seemed the scummiest to me.

For most of Day 2, he tunnels on hiphop. He keeps on about hiphop until Petunho makes a post about me. He seems to piggyback on all of what Petunho said and come up with nothing of his own. He defends this a few times in following posts, but I really don't buy it. The opportunity was there for him to piggyback off of a decent case, and he took it. He backs off, and then goes back onto hiphop right before the deadline.

This is a lie and a misrepresentation. I in no way piggybacked. My case is and was based on the Mae wagon. Petunho made an excellent point about the timing of your vote switch, and also how quickly the momentum shifted against Mae late in the day. He pressed you about why you switched your vote. That tied in with my case, but was not the basis. As you yourself say, it was a decent case. But it wasn't my case, it just augmented it.

By the way, I didn't need to piggyback on anything. hiphop was my primary suspect and he was at L-1. I developed a theory about the Mae wagon, and I wanted to investigate it. We had time, and it intrigued me. Why would I not bring it up? It seemed to me that Petunho was town, he had no reason to vote for Mae other than that he found her scummy. I know I'm town, and iamausersname had been proven town. Two left, you and hiphop. hiphop was my main supsect, and not just because he was the hammer. Then there was you. I explained why you could be the scum in post 299. You'll notice I didn't even bring up Petunhos questions about your vote switch until

after

I lay out why you could be the scum on the wagon. And I only bring it up because it dovetailed perfectly with my independent theory. In fact Petunhos questions had been all but forgotten until I brought his post up again.

He does bother me with the fact of voting straight off at the beginning of Day 3. His whole case on me is based off of everything Petunho said. Since Petunho flipped town, he can lean on that fact to try and show that he's pro-town.

Sorry I voted straight off. In retrospect it was hasty, but I was clear about not wanting a quick lynch. I just wanted to make clear how convinced I was that you were scum. And again you misrepresent my case on you. I haven't even brought up the questions Petunho asked you about your vote switch. I bring up the timing of your vote switch briefly, but that's to address those who may wonder if there was scum on the Mae wagon at all.

I don't like the following quote at all:

My case is simple and kinda weak in that it makes one big assumption, and that only I and scum know that I'm town.

I also don't like how he is setting up actions for tomorrow, basically knowing that he's going to be here.

What don't you like about that quote? I don't know 100% that you are scum, and therefore that there are scum on Maes wagon at all is an assumption. An assumption that was bolstered by the timing of your vote switch. And what do you mean I know that I will be here tomorrow? I certainly do not know that. And I always post and play with the assumption that I will be there the next day. Why would I play otherwise? If I NKed then I get NKed. I would want to make sure my PoV is there for reference for the next day.

I have refused to get into distracting discussions as to who the partner might be, because that conversation is academic unless we lynch scum today. That is a discussion for tomorrow, if it comes.

One of the main things that bother me is that he barely if ever mentions Bouched or talks to him. When he does though, he seems to coach him along.

Why is my quote a problem? I didn't want to waste time chasing my tail looking for a partner when I don't have a good case. It's LyLo, so I'm focusing on who I strongly believe to be scum.

And I talked to Bouche. Not a lot, he was never somebody I suspected through out the game. His posts were fluff, and while that bugged me about Mae on Day 1- by Day 2 and certainly today I had bigger fish to fry. But, in light of Bouches replacement I probably should have interacted with him more. I'm going to hit this up in my next post, as I now believe he was/is your scum partner.

Throughout the game, he's constantly being prodded and getting annoyed with getting prodded, but pretty evenly actively lurking, but here at the end, he really wants to finish the game. I'm really thinking that the only reason he held on this long is that he thinks he can get a scum win.

I've been prodded about the same amount of times as anybody else. I got annoyed once, and I've addressed it. You want to make it sound like I'm piggybacking on cases and setting up lynches, yet I'm actively lurking? You have been doing little more than posting one sentence posts all day today, and for a good chunk of yesterday. Especially at the end. Good for you for having... roughly the same if not less posts than me on Day 1 and early Day two. But come LyLo you contribute almost nothing but content free posts every three days, and you want to give me shit for active lurking? I'm here posting and wanting to finish the game because (a. That's why I'm on this site playing and (b. after everything a scum win would make my head explode, and I believe I can prevent it. Sorry I'm not rolling over.

Ok, give me a few and I'll be hitting up why Darklight is only helping my case, and is clearly the scumbuddy. Any questions in the meantime are welcome.

[startransmission]

Ah, fuck it. Do I need to spell out why I think Starbuck is scum? Do I have to build a case against Darklight and Bouche for everyone to be convinced? For what is so obvious? Is the writing not on the wall? Am I losing my fucking mind here?? Am I really the only one??? Yeah, I've made mistakes this game, but this is too much. Please, vote to lynch Starbuck. I have absolute faith that if we do there will be a Day 4. I know I'm right, and even if I wasn't 100% when the day started, I sure as hell am now.

Ask me questions and I'll do the best I can. But I have to believe that Troll and Crazy are town. And I can't imagine that at this point you two can't see that I've been right.

They need one town vote, I need both. Zorblag, Crazy- if you need it I'll post why I think Darklight is the scumbuddy. But in the meantime I place trust in your judgement. Even if you don't see it, don't hammer me. Ask me... and as I said I'll do my best. We have time.

[startransmission]

I lolled at your post, ST

Laugh it up. Even if you guys win it, it wasn't earned. Apathy is your trump card, and it won't work in very many future games.

[startransmission]

I should be on before deadline tomorrow.

You really have to be.

[startransmission]

Awesome.


Well, good game guys. I was leaning for Zorblag being the partner until Darklight came along. VRK only spoke of me in the third person, and went on and on about how town I seemed. It struck me as odd every time he did it. And when Zorblag started to focus almost solely on me I had my doubts about him being town.

Well, what do you guys think? What could I do better in the future?

Darklight, no offense or anything, but what the hell? Your comments were so out of left field considering the game at that point that I had no doubt you were scum. Did you read the game or just peruse the first few pages?

Elmo, Troll... Congrats. But don't hurt yourself patting each others backs. Had town shown up things might've been different.

[startransmission]

And thank you Elmo for being an excellent mod!

Congrats Starbuck, sorry I put down the wrong name.