Stars Aligned - GAME OVER

[chenhsi]

All the cultists all becoming murderers is dangerous (in the sense that there are many more NKs), but they all know who each other are, so they would all go after each other first, decreasing anti-town people. Also, it is harder to win as a murderer than as a cultist. I think that all the cultists becoming murderers may not be a bad thing.

[ZykeZero]

I can speculate that cultist becoming a murderer won't happen until either there is 3 of them or less left. Any more and it would take too long for that one murderer to kill the rest of the cultists and win the game. If there is a murderer, big odds are a murderer will be an investigator and smart odds say the same thing.

But no one needs to be a murderer, you choose it. Just reminding the players.

[zwetschenwasser]

Hello, fellow pumpkins. I heard noises in the dark night.

[arelian]

Did you ward anyone, zwet?

And does anyone know if cultists can equip items? I would assume they can, but if they can't then that's one way we can start to confirm people.

Also,

unvote

.

[zwetschenwasser]

I think cultists can equip if they can make fetishes. No, I did not ward someone.

[chenhsi]

I'm pretty sure cultists can use and equip items.

Why could cultists not become murderers early? The other cultists have no way of knowing who betrayed them.

[sideney]

I will be V/LA until monday 27.

[Percy]

12Keyblade and JasonT1981 have requested replacement.

Seraphim replaces 12Keyblade.

Prods going out tonight. Players' V/LA noted.

[ZykeZero]

I'm pretty sure cultists can use and equip items.

Why could cultists not become murderers early? The other cultists have no way of knowing who betrayed them.

Perhaps you should read up on what it is they can do exactly.

[Seraphim]

Hey folks. Reading up.

[Magua]

Why could cultists not become murderers early? The other cultists have no way of knowing who betrayed them.

The murderer win condition includes being the only murderer alive. Going murderer early is risky -- if anyone else, in the 25 player game, does as well, it's going to be a long time before you win.

In fact, it seems like it's possible for murderers to get to the point where they cannot win. If you have a murderer who kills, say, 5 people, and is then themselves killed, a murderer would have to kill 6 people and be the last murderer alive to win.

But since murderers will have to rack up the insanity pretty quickly, and we can easily tell how many murderers we're dealing with from how many people die, I'm not particularly worried about them at the moment. I'll be more worried once we have more than one kill in a night.

[ZykeZero]

Not to mention the murderers are out to kill the other murderers too.

[chenhsi]

I'm pretty sure cultists can use and equip items.

Why could cultists not become murderers early? The other cultists have no way of knowing who betrayed them.

Perhaps you should read up on what it is they can do exactly.

What?

If for some reason the target of the Ritual is a Cultist (the other Cultists

suspect

they might be a Murderer, for instance) no Fetish is needed.

This implies that cultists don't know if anyone betrays them.

Stalk

A Cultist may not take this action unless they are already a Murderer.

This implies that cultists can take actions other than Ritual and Fetish.

In summary, I don't see what I missed and what I need to reread.

The murderer win condition includes being the only murderer alive. Going murderer early is risky -- if anyone else, in the 25 player game, does as well, it's going to be a long time before you win.

I felt that anyone who would intends on becoming a murderer would do early in the game. The earlier they become a murderer, the more people they can kill, getting an advantage in # of kills compared to other people who become murderers later.

In fact, it seems like it's possible for murderers to get to the point where they cannot win.

Based on the win conditions, I do think that it is possible that no one wins the game at all (last player is a murderer, but doesn't have enough kills).

[Magua]

I felt that anyone who would intends on becoming a murderer would do early in the game. The earlier they become a murderer, the more people they can kill, getting an advantage in # of kills compared to other people who become murderers later.

I was thinking this through -- since it requires at least three kills to win as murderer, if the town suspects that there is a single murderer, who is close to winning...it would really be in the town's interest to nominate people to "lose" and become murderers. Or, at the extreme, take the step where they all become murderers (since otherwise, the one or two people sacrificed are essentially giving up their win condition).

I do not think that becoming murderer is a winning strategy. It is too easy to become one, which thwarts the win condition.

[Exalt]

There is too much speculation in terms of murders and how a player can or cannot win as one, and not enough speculation as to who are cult and what we are going to do about it.

Enough with the murderer talk, because if you become a murderer you become anti-everything which is not what we should be focused on doing.

I don't find it a good win condition for townies (non cult) to purposely sacrifice themselves and lose to help the townies gain a win. That is the completely wrong way to do things in my mind, and is almost cheating probably. I sure as hell won't sacrifice my win condition merely to help everyone else win. If I became a murderer, I would try to win as a murderer too. Get my drift here? I don't like this discussion magua and chenhsi are having about it at all.

As far as Matin goes, if he doesn't post something of actual substance instead of "faking insanities" and claiming cult, than I will vote him too. It is scummy as hell, and it becomes far more than a policy lynch at that point. I don't care if his meta shows he does it every game, because the only use for it is to meta town nonstop until he becomes scum, and then no one will know the difference. I will take it as it is in THIS game, and I find it scummy.

[zwetschenwasser]

NO POLICY LYNCHING

[chenhsi]

Townies should not purposely sacrifice themselves to help others win. That means that they are not playing to win.

I do think that trying to find cult is useful, but unless you propose some way of finding out who the cultists are, the murderer discussion is the best discussion we have.

[zwetschenwasser]

Um... murderers don't even exist yet, or at the most there's one or two now. They don't want to specifically kill the investigators, just their rivals. Cult wants to kill everybody, therefore they are scum, and we try to find cult.

[Nyx]

For the moment,

Mastin Unvotes,
Mastin Votes: Nyx

.
Serious bandwagon, while ignoring the reasoning behind not voting me.

Sounds like OMGUS to me. Since no reasons were given not to vote for you prior to my voting. Heck I still don't know why I should unvote you besides the fact I just read you do this more often.

- Self vote
- Claiming scum where nobody gains profit from. ( Scum knows who's scum but town doesn't so even if you were town what do we gain from it ? )
- There was healthy discussion going on and still continuing if anything you derailed it.

[Seraphim]

Mastin: You might be scum or he could not be scum. I had already planned on simply ignoring his opening posts and see if he continued the anti-behavior or actually started scumhunting.

Also, you say that you want to end the RVS. This is funny because there wasn't really an RVS before this.

Congrats, you're the new DGB with monster posts.

Mastin, the biggest problem with your tactics is that you give the scum a reason to vote you while also giving town players reason to vote you. It's a poor tactic...I much prefer real scum hunting.

This set-up speculation bugs the shit out of me. Well, not speculation...you get what I mean, right? Set-up discussion and all that...while not scummy, it can be very distracting. We can foil the scum all we want but there are still two truths...

1. Murderers will happen.
2. We need to lynch scum.

Murderers may have happened last night. There is nothing we as a town can do. Stop talking about it. Zwet is on the right track...let's avoid policy lynches and murderer discussion.

Unvote
Vote: Mastin

You say you want reactions. Analyze them or die. If you're going to use scummy tactics to supposedly catch scum, I want to see the scum. Frankly, your actions and self-meta are great cover for a scum player to excuse scummy behavior. "Oh, I always do that." is not an excuse.

[semioldguy]

Hello. I heard no noises last night.

@Mastin
I want you to vote for me. There was discussion and not random voting going on and you came in and distracted from that. I know you always do what you do at the beginning of the game, but there really wasn't an RVS going on when you came in this time. It is also perfect cover for you taking the insanity that only allows you to vote for players that vote for you, which if I were you is the first insanity I would take. That is why I want you to vote for me, you can take it off and vote someone else later.

[semioldguy]

I would prefer that no one else reply to the following prior to nhammen's response.

Didn't think of that! I equipped the wrong thing!

You began the game with more than one item?

[semioldguy]

People who claimed to have warded someone last night also have an insanity rating as per the action they chose last night. What does everyone think about the players with claimed insanity rating claiming the insanities they chose?

Don't claim your insanities yet if you are one of those people who warded someone, I want to first make sure there isn't something someone else noticed that I overlooked which would make the insanity claiming a bad idea for the town.

[ZykeZero]

I am missing something. isn't it saturday? The game started on wednesday, shouldn't we have at least one write up? Shouldn't we be on day 2?

[semioldguy]

Yes, it is Saturday (where I am at least).

Games on MafiaScum generally last a few months, even moreso for large theme games like this one. Day periods in game on this site generally last a few weeks before deadlines. If you are looking for faster paced games, you should probably look for another site.