Open 156 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over before 816

[itacv2]

I think is well explained what i tried to say. Maybe the words chosen are not the best, but given that my first language is not english, i think they were the ones i needed in order to say what i wanted. I guess.

That aside, what else, u want explained.
Im not certain that DDD is mafia. Im not certain Raivann is mafia either. Nor anyone can claim certainty. I had a gut feeling about DDD, he reacted defensively and harsh, thats ok for me at the moment, imo. No one else has presented any other evidence.

U might be right that i said wrong about Raivann, but i spoke without the evidence. Someone said he changed playstyle, someone secunded so i thought it was true, my mistake.

But u saying that I WANTED RAIVANN dead, that i cant permit, because i never said i wanted him dead, nor i made a move against him. I just explained my point of view in the current situation.

That aside, and DDD behavior as like he is not being held as suspect, led me to think that he does have something to hide. And his other posts changing the attention to people that havent done anything for real, his lack of arguments in defense of his vote. HIS CONTINUOS evasiveness on the topic, THAT is WHY i dont take my vote of him.

Vote Count #8

Completely unchanged!

Debonair Danny DiPietro (3) - Toro, itacv2, Raivann
itacv2 (2) - ekiM, ZazieR
Santos (1) - Kise
Raivann (1) - Debonair Danny DiPietro
Sho Minamimoto (1) - muzzz

[ekiM]

I still think That DDD has a chance to be a big shot scum, lol, but he makes a point.

I think we might want to test the case.
Why? If Raivann is lynched and he is town we might be short of one people but a nontalkative one, since he is counterproductive is not a big deal

and might then watch the patterns of behavior , the bandwagoners and reactions to the lynch.

What did you mean by "test the case" other than "lynch Raivann"?

[Kise]

{Placeholder}
Need to read pages 6+

[Sho Minamimoto]

itacv2, what is your first language?

[Exalt]

I was responding to your post 174, silly bear.

And, look:

I understand what zetta is, but used in the context you put it in does not work unless you are going for the slang term, which is the same as "uber, or super". Saying something is "zeta cool" is the same as saying something is "hella cool". We might understand the meaning, but it doesn't mean it is grammatically correct used in that fashion. Calling someone else dumb because you choose to not be grammatically correct is the same as trying to factor hectopascals.

For everyone else, I saw this in another game I'm in, and

Sho is contriving his wording and playstyle

based on some type of anime character with the same name. The link can be found here http://twewy.wikia.com/wiki/Sho_Minamimoto

I hope he doesn't continue to do it all game, because I think it will become quite annoying later on.

If Sho keeps it up I would vote him simply because acting like that is pretty annoying

, and it is more detrimental than actually productive to town in terms of analyzing and scum hunting. If I decided to speak a very unknown foreign language in the game, you would probably vote me off too, because you would know that I could speak English and so speaking the foreign language would only be to be unhelpful to town and piss everyone else off. Being detrimental on purpose can only be viewed as scummy, no matter how you look at it. It is that simple.

You were talking about

the style in which he posts

. It is not scummy to say "zetta" instead of "hella". Period.

Did you just refuse to read the entire like 10 wall posts AFTER those 2 specific posts all dedicated to the Sho subject? Are you purposely ignoring it now? How many times do I have to explain the same things over and over again to you until you decide you will read the thread?

Are you telling me that you are not reading the thread now past page 3? Is that what you are saying? That is sure what it looks like to me.

[Exalt]

Exalt, why are you not voting? Who are your suspects right now?

I'm building a case right now. You'll know my suspects soon enough

I refuse to vote until I can build a case on someone. Even if it is a weak one, I will end up building some type of case before I vote. Thanks.

[Raivann]

FrankiePeanuts was criticized for making more analysis than suspicions and not wanting to ruffle feathers, then Zazie replaces him and goes overboard with questions and says 'noted' alot. Not much but it's more than I have on DDD

unvote, Vote: Zazie

P.S. I know I've been moving my vote around alot. I'm not doing it to be anti town or anything, just voting who I'm most suspicious of at the moment.

[ekiM]

I have read the thread, Exalt. That is how I know that when you first complained about Sho's 'playstyle' you were referring to the way he phrased his posts; the way he was posting 'in character', and said that if he kept it up you would vote him for it.

---

Raivann, you said that you were agreeing with the case Zazie made on itacv2 and would reread him. Have you reread him? What do you conclude?

[ekiM]

Exalt, when you say things like:

As far as you saying we should not lynch him for the "way he posts", well I disagree, because if he slips up and makes scummy posts, then obviously you cannot call that a play style. If he makes mistakes and looks like scum and does scummy things in his posts, then why are you calling it his play style still? Get what I'm saying here?

You cannot call everything he does and says a play style, because you are just going to give him a free pass.

... you are putting words into my mouth that I never said.

[Exalt]

Exalt, when you say things like:

As far as you saying we should not lynch him for the "way he posts", well I disagree, because if he slips up and makes scummy posts, then obviously you cannot call that a play style. If he makes mistakes and looks like scum and does scummy things in his posts, then why are you calling it his play style still? Get what I'm saying here?

You cannot call everything he does and says a play style, because you are just going to give him a free pass.

... you are putting words into my mouth that I never said.

I didn't say you said it, but it is my stance on the issue with Sho. I changed my stance from wanting to lynch him based on him LOOKING like scum admittedly from his play style, to me looking at him as a player who I can sift through his play style and find content to base a read off of.

That is why I changed my stance on him. I think I can read him now, when compared to before I couldn't. I just noticed there was a catch all phrase being thrown around in "policy lynch" which I don't agree with now, because if Sho does something scummy then he is being scummy not just living up to his play style.

[ZazieR]

@Itacv2

First of all, you said that Raivann is an easy target according to you. Why?
There is one other thing why I didn''t like you soft-pushing Raivann. But please answer the questions in this post first.

[ZazieR]

FrankiePeanuts was criticized for making more analysis than suspicions and not wanting to ruffle feathers, then Zazie replaces him and goes overboard with questions and says 'noted' alot. Not much but it's more than I have on DDD

unvote, Vote: Zazie

P.S. I know I've been moving my vote around alot. I'm not doing it to be anti town or anything, just voting who I'm most suspicious of at the moment.

First of all, you weren''t one of the players who criticized Frankie''s play. So I''d like to hear why you do point it out now.
Secondly, when I say noted, it means that I remember it as I find it scummy.
Third, you have nothing against DDD. You said yourself it was OMGUS.
Fourth, the last paragraph. Without being attacked, you are already commenting on why you are doing it. This reminds me of the early claim. Seems you don''t want to get attention.

And last, you once again didn''t answer my questions of posts 177 and 179

[ZazieR]

itacv2's latest post cements my vote for him. I'd like everyone to comment on posts 145 and 160.

Also this. Why did everybody ignore this request?

[ekiM]

Exalt, when I objected to the "policy lynch" I was objecting to a lynch for stuff like using 'zetta' instead of 'very' or using math metaphors. That's what you'd complained about initially about Sho's playstyle. Maybe you were actually talking about something else, but it didn't come off that way.

I don't believe anyone said "If Sho does something scummy then let's ignore it because that's his playstle", or anything similar. So I think you've been tilting at windmills a bit.

Anyway, this is beating a dead horse. Looking forward to those cases!

[Sho Minamimoto]

Inactiveness is a way used by scums to lay low, but i think Toro has not shown a true scum face thats why i will not think bad about him, yet.

As for Raivann, HE IS AN EASY TARGET as was put before.
@Raivann- there is no way you can prove the case against you wrong, the only chance u stand is to detecting a threat bigger than you in order to avoid being lynched.

@DDD- since it was you who also broght to attention the change of playstyle in this guy what else you suggest could be a proper approach to this situation. Because even when i still think you might be scum, you are making a point there.

@everyone else- I still think That DDD has a chance to be a big shot scum, lol, but he makes a point. I think we might want to test the case.
Why? If Raivann is lynched and he is town we might be short of one people but a nontalkative one, since he is counterproductive is not a big deal and might then watch the patterns of behavior , the bandwagoners and reactions to the lynch.

Aside from this i dont think i can make at this time make a clearer case than the ones being held

This post is scummy because he never explains why DDD seems liike "big shot scum" at this point. Also, he is setting up lynches. I guess I was distracted by the fact his writing is very first grade, but this is definitely scummy.

I just want to get movement, since this is going nowhere. Also you may think i want Raivann lynched when i dont. If you are paying attention i never retired the vote on DDD since i think at this moment he is SCUM and noone has proven otherwise or that we should consider any another player to check.

To lack of arguments my vote stays.

Also when i say counterproductive means that while we have a change that we may find useful information doing it, the chances are low compared with what has been called mislynches.

Also, If i said that Raivann could be mafia but if he was not, was ok anyways, you misunderstood it. What i meant was that given the evidence presented this could mean one of two things, either Raivann is Scum or DDD is looking extensively to change the crosshairs in his head. Or maybe both.

Change in playstayle is known as a kill me strategy for newbs, and a change like the one shown when a overly active player changes to idontwannaspeakalot guy, most of the time this happen because the player dont know how to impersonate the character that was assigned, meaning that he is either scum or important role character.

Here, itacv continues to pursue a DDD lynch, but a majority of his post would favor Raiv=scum in theory. Plus, his only given reason, thus far, to vote DDD is the simple lack of proof on the theorem DDD=town. The lack of evidence doesn't implicate DDD is town because nothing says any one player is town at the current moment, but he is singling out DDD. This could mean that itacv is focusing on one player, who as scum, he knows is town, but while also trying to remain ambgious by admitting good points DDD makes and noting negative aspects of other players. THe lack of ACTING on DDD's positive moves (unvoting) or the flaws in other player's play (voting Raiv, in this particular case) could indicate itacv is scum.

Unvote; Vote itacv

Also, itacv, what is your first language?

[Santos]

Is that so?

You betcha.

Why the change in your stance?

Because it had meta-fail in it and I no longer find it plausible to follow considering I was a dumb ass and wasn't paying attention that there is no cop in this game. Now I just feel sheepish.

@Santos: I expect you to answer Zazie's question regardless of her answer, so you might as well just do it now. The longer you wait, the less plausible it becomes.

Alrighty.

Santos for not voting anyone and just hoping town mislynches on its own

Where?

Also, post 190 and 191 I'm agreeing with at the moment. Is she a suspect? Sure, townies aren't always the ones who lead the games with questions.

Secondly, when I say noted, it means that I remember it as I find it scummy.

So its 'noted' that I questioned how you are quoting me out of chronological order = scummy when you didn't explain what you were doing in the first place? Have you quoted anyone else out of chronological order? It just threw me off as incredibly suspicious because it seemed like you were trying to set up some sort of elaborate attack on me no matter what my response would be to your questions. That is why I was getting defensive about it.

So, ZazieR, is my question about that ^ still 'noted/scummy' now that we've cleared the water?

----------------------------
Hey, what is 'zetta'?

And I would like Kise to catch up and post an analysis.

[muzzz]

Zetta is Sho's way of saying "very".

You do realize that you've basically done a 180 some 24 hours after the facts, right?

[Exalt]

Anyway, this is beating a dead horse. Looking forward to those cases!

I'm not. It takes hours to do one properly, and I have to do one for 5 games lol. I have tomorrow off, so I might just stay up tonight and spend far too long in mafia forums doing them. Don't worry, I'll have a case on someone soon though. I just like to make large ones compared to making small cases throughout the game.

[Santos]

You do realize that you've basically done a 180 some 24 hours after the facts, right?

You've played with me before, right? :p Or were you dead already when I replaced in and watched how I played? I'm an atrocious player often times. Usually when I'm not so outspoken I get the 'OMG SANTOS IS NOT POSTING' deal.
But to answer you, yes, 180, 360, 1080, they're not impossible to do, just unlikely to happen in a mafia game where you could be lynched for less. Usually I tend to make a dramatic case of something, but then just end up tunneling on someone instead of trying to open the causeway and breathe in other's ideas, speculations, concerns, suspicions, etc.

---------------------------

I look forward to Exalt's case and input from Kise.

Also, muzzz, where do your thoughts lie?

[muzzz]

Hmmm, you've got a point. I watched you vs. Sens from the sidelines, and IIRC you did need some time to catch on to things others were saying about your defense.

The people I'm keeping my eye on (in no particular order):
Itac
Toro
Raivann
Kise
DDD

[Sho Minamimoto]

Zetta is Sho's way of saying "very".

You do realize that you've basically done a 180 some 24 hours after the facts, right?

Zetta is an SI prefix meaning 10 to the 21st power OR a sextillion.

I will wait for Exalt's large case.

[Exalt]

Zetta is Sho's way of saying "very".

You do realize that you've basically done a 180 some 24 hours after the facts, right?

Zetta is an SI prefix meaning 10 to the 21st power OR a sextillion.

I will wait for Exalt's large case.

You might have to wait a while. I got home from the bar not that long ago, and its now 5:30 AM my time. I'm off today so I'll have the time to attempt a case anyways. I'll do my best when I find the time hopefully after I get some sleep. Going to bed right now. Hopefully when I wake up, I can find time to do what I intend to do, which is make a case on SOMEONE.

[ZazieR]

Why the change in your stance?

Because it had meta-fail in it and I no longer find it plausible to follow considering I was a dumb ass and wasn't paying attention that there is no cop in this game. Now I just feel sheepish.

So you agreed with a case, on which you didn''t even check if the points were valid? In other words, you were following. Noted.

Secondly, when I say noted, it means that I remember it as I find it scummy.

So its 'noted' that I questioned how you are quoting me out of chronological order = scummy when you didn't explain what you were doing in the first place? Have you quoted anyone else out of chronological order? It just threw me off as incredibly suspicious because it seemed like you were trying to set up some sort of elaborate attack on me no matter what my response would be to your questions. That is why I was getting defensive about it.

So, ZazieR, is my question about that ^ still 'noted/scummy' now that we've cleared the water?

My answer: Check our ongoing game in which you have flipped. That''s one of the reasons. The other is the reaching. You''re trying to make me look scummy, when I''m questioning your motives behind your opinion.
So yes, it''s still noted.

[Santos]

Check our ongoing game in which you have flipped.

Which one? Most recently, probably the last 5-10 games I've flipped town.

[Santos]

You''re trying to make me look scummy, when I''m questioning your motives behind your opinion.

You might be thinking I'm making it scummy, but for others to see this as well it would have to be pointed out, otherwise this is just your opinion. And even if it is the case that I am making you look scummy, its your complete inability to move from the fence you're standing on. Choose a side already; you are looking scummier and scummier every 'note' you take and 'note' you 'note.'