Stars Aligned - GAME OVER

[chenhsi]

I am just saying we don't need to worry about the assigned robber dieing.

That's true. If the grave robber is killed, we still learn the alignment of the dead player. But we would lose any extra items they picked up from the corpse.

No, the items just go on the new grave that we can then rob.

Sarag: You don't think that we should NK Mastin. I don't think that Mastin needs to be lynched. People want him dead because they don't like his playstyle, it's a policy lynch. My opinion was that the people who want him dead should vig him themselves, and not waste the town lynch. DeathNote, I'm not sure about.

I don't think he needs to be lynched

OR

NK'd. I agree that we shouldn't go for a policy lynch. I don't think we should policy vig either, and I think encouraging others to do so is scummy. Both the lynch and the vig are valuable, for different reasons. Vigging is also

very costly

, as I have already pointed out. Why should we vig frivolously, and only take the lynch seriously? You also seem to be advocating this, so

FoS: chenhsi

.

The difference is that Mastin has not done scummy yet to be lynched, or for me to consider him scum. I am not supporting that we should vig him. I am saying that people who want him dead because they don't like his playstyle should vig him, and not waste a lynch + discussion time about it.

Sarag, what is your opinion on Datadanne?

[chenhsi]

My questions are not useless!

Yes they are. You are not making sense and you are making random posts. Your questions have almost no basis in them.

Sajin, Better reasons plz.

And you have given good reasons for voting?

"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish."

I'm glad you agree with us.

[Magua]

But why even take the risk?

I nominate Magua to rob the grave tonight, instead of zwet.

I'm also willing to do it myself if people aren't happy with Magua.

Out of curiosity, did you pick my name out of a hat? I'm fine with zwet robbing the grave. If he gets killed, well, then we can figure out someone to rob his grave the next day. It's not like the items are going anywhere, and the main intent -- revealing alignment -- gets done either way.

I'm not fond of this idea of yours of volunteering someone else to gain insanity.

On to other matters: Mastin is back. Allow me some time to control my joy. Let's see...he claims at least half the people voting for him are scum. His scum claim is a null tell because he does it every game. Perhaps I should start every game by voting for Mastin. Then that would become a null tell too, hmm? Oh, no, you've got another term for that -- policy lynch. How convenient.

The only vaguely useful pieces I see in that wall of text are:

* Says Drench gets bandwagoned for defending him.
* Posits a connection between Zwet and Zyke.

I am so far unimpressed with this gambit, and still think Mastin is scum. But I would rather read Mastin's walls than Datadanne's one liners.

[Sajin]

My questions are not useless!

Sajin, Better reasons plz.

"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish."

Ok explain to me how any of your questions on the last 3 pages actively help the town.

[chenhsi]

On to other matters: Mastin is back. Allow me some time to control my joy. Let's see...he claims at least half the people voting for him are scum. His scum claim is a null tell because he does it every game. Perhaps I should start every game by voting for Mastin. Then that would become a null tell too, hmm? Oh, no, you've got another term for that -- policy lynch. How convenient.

While I do disagree that half the people voting for Mastin are scum, I do agree that there are probably multiple scum voting for Mastin. Whether you like his strategy or not, it does catch a few scum. I just disagree on how effective it is. And while voting for Mastin every game is a policy-lynch, it isn't a scum-tell either.

[Sajin]

On to other matters: Mastin is back. Allow me some time to control my joy. Let's see...he claims at least half the people voting for him are scum. His scum claim is a null tell because he does it every game. Perhaps I should start every game by voting for Mastin. Then that would become a null tell too, hmm? Oh, no, you've got another term for that -- policy lynch. How convenient.

While I do disagree that half the people voting for Mastin are scum, I do agree that there are probably multiple scum voting for Mastin. Whether you like his strategy or not, it does catch a few scum. I just disagree on how effective it is. And while voting for Mastin every game is a policy-lynch, it isn't a scum-tell either.

I disagree. Following a policy lynch because of the reasoning "hey, its a policy lynch" with not much else for reasoning is incredibly scummy. It detracts from actual mechanics information and scum hunting that can actually help the town. Therefore at best its a null tell and can quite easily be a scum tell.

[chenhsi]

I never said that it was a town tell, just that it was a null-tell.

And scummy or not, it doesn't really tell us anything about the alignment of the player.

[ryan2754]

Bare with me all: this is my first themes game so if I ask stupid questions, it's mainly because I have had some problems with the flavor.

Mastin being Mastin...Good God...I can see where his ideas about RVS make sense, but it's soo hard not to get annoyed.

Getting through the whole Ward/Noise claims, and understanding what they mean. I am pretty sure I have the jist of it down:
Use Resuscitates on people who heard noise, and Wards on those who did not. Correct.

To use a peace of equipment such as Forensic Tools, must they be equipped first? Or can one just say "I investigate X" without equipping the tools? Or do you equip an item one night, and thus gain it in your inventory to use the next night?

I could see Mastin stalking N0. I could also see him using Occult Books last night. Hell I could see Mastin pulling any damn gambit possible.

I'd also like to point out something: since becoming a Murderer is an insanity, and you are allowed to take one stalk action and one murder action as an Investigator, wouldn't that mean that all Investigators have a one-shot vig?

Wow, didn't realize this initially. Something to consider...

If there are any questions people would like to specifically ask me, let me know.

Seems to me like you're trying to put finding murderers at a lower priority than finding cult, when both should be important. Murderers are also an anti-town faction. We can't win when there are murderers. Seems like you're trying to push speculation away from murderers because you are one.

No one starts as a murderer. The only way at this point in the game is if you Researched or Stalked and chose Psychopath N0.

I think the topic was getting slightly off when discussing murderers and town becoming them as a way of cheating.

I feel deathnote is worthy of a vote just for Post 271 where he votes Mastin. And then he Selfvotes...Good God...FACEPALM for the Resuscitate N0.

Datadanne hasn't given much of anything except basic IIoA, but I do like his 335. Does seem as those Chensi may be buddying with using slight humor.


This gets me through page 13 or so. My computer is acting up so I tried to get this in before my internet connection was lost. Will finish read tomorrow.

[Sajin]

I suppose we could break the setup and play this like texas justice. But that is a double edged sword as well.

[dramonic]

chaos danger

[Drench]

DRENCH:

The bw on Mastin smells scummy. However, I feel that the people who jumped on the bandwagon 2nd or 3rd weren't as scummy as the people who called it out. I mean, it's a 25 player game.

Scum are not going to quicklynch from L-13 or L-12. I doubt they even have the numbers to even do that.

Maybe I missed something, but what exactly are you talking about when you refer to "the people who called it out"? Who, specifically, are you talking about, and why was calling out the bandwagon scummy in those cases? Because this:

Speaking of the bw, it's not sitting well with me. I saw Mastin committ a null-tell, and I saw 7 or so people jump on it like lightning. I mean, one or two is fine with reason (see above), but when 7 people jump on one person for doing something they do every single game...it looks opportunistic.

Seems like you're calling it out...

What you've managed to do here is get 2 seperate incidents and string them together. Yay for you! The first incident is referring to the ones that went 'OMG2PPLBANDWAGONINGSCUMSCUMSCUM', and the second is, well, me calling out the opportunistic nature of the bandwagon in its later stages.

chaos danger

Um...what? Explain.

[Sarag]

If the grave robber is killed, we still learn the alignment of the dead player. But we would lose any extra items they picked up from the corpse.

No, the items just go on the new grave that we can then rob.

Sure, but then we just defer the problem. If we continue to do that, we will end up with a worse spread of gear on different Investigators, since having more than one of an item doesn't help.

The difference is that Mastin has not done scummy yet to be lynched, or for me to consider him scum. I am not supporting that we should vig him. I am saying that people who want him dead because they don't like his playstyle should vig him, and not waste a lynch + discussion time about it.

If you don't think there is enough to say he's scum then why would you encourage other people to vig him for playstyle? It is incredibly wasteful to have an investigator use up their kill on someone you don't think it worth it. The investigators are a team - if you are one, you should be encouraging your team mates to make wise choices.

Sarag, what is your opinion on Datadanne?

His posts have been pretty useless so far. Sadly this seems to be consistent with his meta.

Out of curiosity, did you pick my name out of a hat?

I looked at the list of people who had heard no noise and chose someone who seemed active, and looked reasonable enough to be trusted with the task.

I'm not fond of this idea of yours of volunteering someone else to gain insanity.

Hmm yeah I didn't really think of it like that, I guess I wanted to suggest someone else so people wouldn't think I had some reason for wanting to do it myself - but now that I think about it, there's not really any benefit to scum for doing this so it's not an issue. And I DID say I was willing to do it. I stand by that.

What you've managed to do here is get 2 seperate incidents and string them together. Yay for you! The first incident is referring to the ones that went 'OMG2PPLBANDWAGONINGSCUMSCUMSCUM', and the second is, well, me calling out the opportunistic nature of the bandwagon in its later stages.

Um, I still don't understand, so I'll ask again:
- What exactly are you talking about when you refer to "the people who called it out"? Please refer to specific posts.
- Who, specifically (give names), are you talking about?
- And why was calling out the bandwagon scummy in those cases?

[dramonic]

Ryan says we could play this like texas justice.

However, if at anytime during the game all investigators are bloody, we descend into chaos.

[Sarag]

chaos danger

Um...what? Explain.

See this conversation:

In Texas Justice, all members of the town have a 1-shot vig. It has been discovered that there is a breaking strategy in Texas Justice: If a list is made with all of the players in a random order, and everyone vigs the person below them on the list on the same night, then town wins unless the scum happen to be next to each other on the list.

Even if the odds were still good in this game, it wouldn't work because of this:

Chaos

- If

every living player

is Bloody at any time, all Investigators gain the Psychopathy insanity, and the Day phase no longer occurs. For this state to be triggered, there must be at least three more Investigators than Cultists remaining.

[Percy]

To use a peace of equipment such as Forensic Tools, must they be equipped first? Or can one just say "I investigate X" without equipping the tools? Or do you equip an item one night, and thus gain it in your inventory to use the next night?

The

Equip

action puts an item in your inventory. You may use items in your inventory to perform the night action to which it is associated.

You do not need to Equip your items a second time.

For example, if you chose

Equip: Occult Books

on Night 0 and began the game with a Resuscitation Kit, you may choose

Research

or

Resuscitate

tonight.

[zwetschenwasser]

Sarag, I prefer to wait to hammer people.

[arelian]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been saying much, been pretty busy and haven't been able to follow the game too well.

Datadanne really does seem scummy. I reread him, and a lot of what he says is inconsistent. For example:

He votes for Kise for almost no reason at all (that I can see, at least):

Lynch, vig-kill... one in the same as far as I'm concerned.

Vote: Drench

If you don't think he's lynch-worthy but do think he is vig-worthy, something isn't adding up. Either you want him dead or not.

What? Are you insane?!

Vote: Kise

Then later on, votes for ErikTheRed due to lack of reasoning:

Unvote, Vote: Erikthered

You will have to give more reasoning then that.

And here, he asks Sajin for better reasons:

My questions are not useless!

Sajin, Better reasons plz.

"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish."

Datadanne also goes after DeathNote, perhaps as an easy vote. Doesn't give reasoning for voting, pretty much at all. I see a lot of him wanting other people to make cases, but doesn't do it himself. When people are attacking him, he accuses them of not having good reasoning, but he didn't when he voted for Kise, and I really couldn't see a good argument he had for DeathNote either.

Vote: Datadanne

Datadanne, can you explain?

[Datadanne]

Explain what now?

[zwetschenwasser]

WHY THE FUCK YOU'RE SAYING NOTHING

[Datadanne]

WHAT SHOULD I SAY

[zwetschenwasser]

SOMETHING

[EriktheRed]

SOMETHING

SCUMHUNTING, DEFENSE, EXPLANATION, HELL, ANY CONTENT WHATSOEVER

fixed

[zwetschenwasser]

thank you

[Knight of Cydonia]

This game is making my head hurt. A lot. I'm trying to pick my way through it, but until i do,

Unvote: Mastin

because while I'm not a big fan of his play, or his defence that because he always claims scum, it's meta and therefore he's not really scum, there are people I need to read closer who deserve more attention than that idiot. Are there any questions people would like me specifically to address?

[zwetschenwasser]

I favor a mastin or a datadanne lynch atm.