Stars Aligned - GAME OVER

[Sarag]

Sarag, I prefer to wait to hammer people.

At the time you were demanding more votes on Mastin, he had 9 votes. It takes 13 to lynch. The most number of votes he has ever had is 10.

Even if you were being cautious, why demand more people vote for him?

And since you haven't yet, could you please explain why you think Mastin is scummy and you want him lynched?

[Sarag]

Before we all jump on the Datadanne bandwagon, take a look at this newbie game he was in.

I haven't done a thorough read of all his games, but I just picked this one to read arbitrarily. In the above game, he was the doctor. On day 1 he kept asking about claiming, then when he collected a few votes for making useless posts, he claimed doctor. Then he claimed vanilla townie. On day two he claimed cop and doctor, and got himself lynched.

So as much as I agree that his playstyle is pretty useless and I would like to not have to put up with it, I don't think there's any particular reason to think he's scum. A Datadanne lynch today doesn't strike me as a super good choice.

[EriktheRed]

After reading that game Sarag linked, I've decided two things: 1) I have got to play another game with the Fonz, and 2) Datadanne is a mere VI.

Unvote

Back to Zwet.

vote: Zwetschenwasser

Same reasons as before, maybe I'll look for something more tomorrow.

[Sajin]

Before we all jump on the Datadanne bandwagon, take a look at this newbie game he was in.

I haven't done a thorough read of all his games, but I just picked this one to read arbitrarily. In the above game, he was the doctor. On day 1 he kept asking about claiming, then when he collected a few votes for making useless posts, he claimed doctor. Then he claimed vanilla townie. On day two he claimed cop and doctor, and got himself lynched.

So as much as I agree that his playstyle is pretty useless and I would like to not have to put up with it, I don't think there's any particular reason to think he's scum. A Datadanne lynch today doesn't strike me as a super good choice.

So you admit he has a playstyle that confuses the hell out of town as town, and still defend him. Interesting.

If a player cannot answer simple questions asked of them then at best they are a liability and at worst actively working against.

[ryan2754]

Starting where I left off (Page 15).

I think the one person Rob Grave is a good idea, mainly agreeing with what SemiOldGuy says on the subject.

I too agree Insanity should be claimed before Grave Robbing.


I think Nhammen has something within his vote counts in 362 on the wagons so far. Granted, I am not usually big on counting wagons D1 but right now seems as though it is true as one of the few things we have.

Definitely agree vigging of Mastin or DN and not wasting a lynch on them. However, if I had to choose one for the sake of argument, it would be DN, because Mastin heard noise like someone else mentioned.

DN

is

town...

"Is." This is definitively stating that DN is town. Nowhere did you say either "confident" OR "positive," so I don't know where you're getting either of those words to put in my mouth.

Also, I just realized my current votee has been replaced and I was only voting him for inactivity/possible-newbishness, so

unvote

Does anyone else see a little strawmanning in this. Zwet never directly used those words, but when asked why if he is "confident" he replies he is sure. I think ETR is missing this point.

I think Datadanne is still doing a whole lot of nothing.
DN's overreaction to ETR is noted. Seems like more a misinterpretation that the actions were pointed at him.

Why do you know he is scum?
Why do you think my post was useless?
What makes you think i am defending him?

1. I never said I know he is scum. I said I would like for scum to slip, and that I would like for Zwet to slip. Those are two separate hopes. Obviously, if Zwet is town, I wouldn't want him to slip.
2. Because you asked a question I had already answered.
3. Because you're arguing that he doesn't deserve my vote for just that slip, and voting me because of it, and... defending him.

FYI, most of the times when I say something supposedly damning about myself it's usually because of nervousness, not scumminess. I've forgotten that I was a mason with a quicktopic before as town. Anyway, I don't see how you can call a technicality of emphatic word choice as a scumtell. I deal in absolutes to make my point, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I mean exactly what I say. It's a figure of speech.

The most level headed post I have EVER seen Zwet make. EVAR.

Not to mention, his claim about forgetting mason with QR is correct - I was his replacement Mason buddy, and pretty much had to dig ourselves out of a hole.



I do agree with Mastin's 496 to Look at no Noise players
No Noise:
12Keyblade
chenhsi
Cephrir
Datadanne
DeathNote
EriktheRed
itacv2
JamesBond
jasonT1981
Magua
nhammen
Nyx
sideney
ZykeZero

People on mastin Wagon:
Mastin, Tuberkulos, sideney, EriktheRed, Magua, ZykeZero, Nyx, Cephrir, Seraphim, jasonT1981, DeathNote
People on DN Wagon:
nhammen, dramonic, Tuberkulos, DeathNote, Datadanne, EriktheRed

ETR on all three. Plus his bad attack on Zwet, IMO.

I could see Zyke being newb scum...and could see Zwet possible coaching him, but I feel this is a stretch.

Sarag makes a good point about wanting more Mastin voters without being on it himself...

Vote: Erikthered

I am now caught up...

[EriktheRed]

DN

is

town...

"Is." This is definitively stating that DN is town. Nowhere did you say either "confident" OR "positive," so I don't know where you're getting either of those words to put in my mouth.

Also, I just realized my current votee has been replaced and I was only voting him for inactivity/possible-newbishness, so

unvote

Does anyone else see a little strawmanning in this. Zwet never directly used those words, but when asked why if he is "confident" he replies he is sure. I think ETR is missing this point.

Um, no, this is a blatant misrepresentation. Zwet says Deathnote definitively

is

town, in post 430,

before

he backtracks to saying he's merely "confident" in 434. You're saying he was only positive after first being confident, which would be a simple means of emphasizing his feelings. But he's not. He knows for a fact DN is town, and when I called him on it he realized his mistake and backpedaled to something more defensible.

[nhammen]

@ryan2754 And ETR's vote hopping has been making me want to revote him.

Vote: EriktheRed

[Sarag]

Tonight, I will rob the grave of whoever is lynched today. I will take the Twitchy insanity. Zwet - please do not also rob the grave.

If the alignment isn't revealed, lynch me tomorrow. I will not back down on this unless there is some kind of consensus for someone else

who did not hear noise

to do it instead, or if someone can give me a good argument for why a noise-hearer is a better choice.

Since I suggested we choose someone who didn't hear noise, a few people have commented simply that they don't have a problem with zwet doing it, but no one has actually said why he is a better choice than what I suggest. I can only conclude that people are being lazy and don't want to think about an issue they feel is mostly resolved. It's true that the noise danger is only a small drawback but we don't need to have even that small drawback.

---

So you admit he has a playstyle that confuses the hell out of town as town, and still defend him. Interesting.

Do you actually have something to say here? Please analylse my behaviour if you think it's interesting - does it seem scummy to you?

@ryan - you left me off your no noise list. I wasn't on the bandwagons though, so your analysis is unaffected.

I noticed the EriktheRed voting pattern as well and it is interesting. I'm not sure if it's enough for a lynch though, and I'm not really bothered by his case on zwet (although I disagree with it).

Also,

unvote Drench

. There are only four people who heard noise that we can't account for (arelian, Drench, Mastin, zwetschenwasser). This is few enough that there can't be many (if any) cultists fake-claiming noise, and these four are probably Investigators. I'm not going to give them a free pass, but the odds are enough to discourage me from voting one of them day 1.

Vote: chenhsi

for:
- Suggesting people vig Mastin if they don't like his playstyle, despite not thinking he is scum (post 234).
- Continuing to defend that position (post 400 and post 500), even after I pointed out how costly a vig is in this set up.

[zwetschenwasser]

DN

is

town...

"Is." This is definitively stating that DN is town. Nowhere did you say either "confident" OR "positive," so I don't know where you're getting either of those words to put in my mouth.

Also, I just realized my current votee has been replaced and I was only voting him for inactivity/possible-newbishness, so

unvote

Does anyone else see a little strawmanning in this. Zwet never directly used those words, but when asked why if he is "confident" he replies he is sure. I think ETR is missing this point.

Um, no, this is a blatant misrepresentation. Zwet says Deathnote definitively

is

town, in post 430,

before

he backtracks to saying he's merely "confident" in 434. You're saying he was only positive after first being confident, which would be a simple means of emphasizing his feelings. But he's not. He knows for a fact DN is town, and when I called him on it he realized his mistake and backpedaled to something more defensible.

You're misrepresenting what I'm saying. You keep calling my figure of speech something more than it actually is. And you keep going on about it. How in heck does my post say that I know for a fact that DN is town? WHEN I SAID THAT I MEANT THAT I WAS CONFIDENT HE WAS TOWN. It's not that hard to understand.

[nhammen]

There are only four people who heard noise that we can't account for (arelian, Drench, Mastin, zwetschenwasser). This is few enough that there can't be many (if any) cultists fake-claiming noise, and these four are probably Investigators. I'm not going to give them a free pass, but the odds are enough to discourage me from voting one of them day 1.

This is why someone that heard noise should rob grave. Also, something strikes me as scummy about the way you said that you will rob the grave. When zwet said he would, he said he would if we were ok with that. You didn't say anything like that; you decided all by yourself that you will rob the grave. And to me, that means you don't care about any town consensus. Maybe I'm seeing too much into this, but the way you have proposed your ideas looks pretty scummy.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Sarag, your attempts to give orders and basically lead the town worry me. I've never seen a situation where one player starts giving out orders and pushing their agenda as the "correct" one end well for town.

FoS:Sarag

Erik's attack on zwet for saying "DeathNote is town" looks weak. It's zwet, he rarely says what he means unless it's a hammer, and to be honest, I'd be reluctant to lynch someone based on them saying "??? is town", because there's so much WIFOM involved regardless of whether they flip scum. So Erik, until you create a case based on anything than what looks like a strong, deliberate misinterpretation of zwet's words,

Vote: EriktheRed

[zwetschenwasser]

There are only four people who heard noise that we can't account for (arelian, Drench, Mastin, zwetschenwasser). This is few enough that there can't be many (if any) cultists fake-claiming noise, and these four are probably Investigators. I'm not going to give them a free pass, but the odds are enough to discourage me from voting one of them day 1.

This is why someone that heard noise should rob grave. Also, something strikes me as scummy about the way you said that you will rob the grave. When zwet said he would, he said he would if we were ok with that. You didn't say anything like that; you decided all by yourself that you will rob the grave. And to me, that means you don't care about any town consensus. Maybe I'm seeing too much into this, but the way you have proposed your ideas looks pretty scummy.

I think the same.

[EriktheRed]

Zwet: Whatever; where I come from, words actually mean something, and a figure of speech is something also known as an idiom, and there's nothing idiomatic about "is". I understand what you're saying, but what you're saying is nothing but backpedaling.

Cydonia: Love your username. I already said that I didn't think this alone would be enough for a lynch. I said it would get reactions. And look how emotional he's getting under pressure, since he doesn't have a rational, usable defense for why he knows this. I'm not inclined to say "Oh, it's Zwet, he implies he's part of the informed faction all the time, let's ignore this scumtell for meta reasons." If I see Zwet is an idiot in

this

game, you'll have made a point with me. Plus, how the hell can someone misinterpret "DN is town...", anyway? There's no other interpretation but "DN is town"!

[Magua]

Now we're getting somewhere.

Let me just stir the pot with my observations:

1) I support the vigging of Mastin, DeathNote, and Datadanne. I support the lynching of Datadanne at this point (which is where my vote is). Since the game relies on us being able to read the townies from the scum, if we can't read these people, then they could be scum as easily as town. I, for one, can't read any of them, so I find the entire block somewhat worrisome. I'm somewhat swayed by Drench's argument that they should be vigged instead of lynched for information reasons, but I don't have a better vote yet than Datadanne.

2) I don't understand why Sarag is so hot to trot about robbing the grave either. I don't see the equipment as that big of a deal, and I don't see his fear that Zwet will die tonight as likely.

[zwetschenwasser]

Zwet: Whatever; where I come from, words actually mean something, and a figure of speech is something also known as an idiom, and there's nothing idiomatic about "is". I understand what you're saying, but what you're saying is nothing but backpedaling.

Confidence can be expressed more emphatically than it really is. It's called rhetoric. Take a literature class, then come back and tell me I don't know how to use English correctly.

[EriktheRed]

Confidence can be expressed more emphatically than it really is. It's called rhetoric. Take a literature class, then come back and tell me I don't know how to use English correctly.

Done already several times over, thanks. I never said you don't know how to use English correctly; I only said that you're backpedaling, and doing it poorly. You're making this personal. A scummy reaction to an accusation, which only serves to reinforce my belief that I'm right.

[Sajin]

Tonight, I will rob the grave of whoever is lynched today. I will take the Twitchy insanity. Zwet - please do not also rob the grave.

If the alignment isn't revealed, lynch me tomorrow. I will not back down on this unless there is some kind of consensus for someone else

who did not hear noise

to do it instead, or if someone can give me a good argument for why a noise-hearer is a better choice.

Since I suggested we choose someone who didn't hear noise, a few people have commented simply that they don't have a problem with zwet doing it, but no one has actually said why he is a better choice than what I suggest. I can only conclude that people are being lazy and don't want to think about an issue they feel is mostly resolved. It's true that the noise danger is only a small drawback but we don't need to have even that small drawback.

---

So you admit he has a playstyle that confuses the hell out of town as town, and still defend him. Interesting.

Do you actually have something to say here? Please analylse my behaviour if you think it's interesting - does it seem scummy to you?

You responded to pressure on datadine by not answering my main point which was Data not answering questions asked of him. You defended someone who has an undependable play style by quoting that play style. I as town would not want to be in LY/LO with data/town or as data/scum if he is as unreadable as you posted. Yet you seem to not mind having a semi unreadable townie (your argument as above) left at LY/LO so I question your motives as to why that is and also why you defended him. Regardless of what alignment Data is it makes you look scummy to me. Is that clear enough?


Also-Look at the order of actions. If Zwet dies, the grave will still be robbed and alignment revealed. Therefore, why do you want to rob the grave so much over zwett? Explain.

[zwetschenwasser]

Confidence can be expressed more emphatically than it really is. It's called rhetoric. Take a literature class, then come back and tell me I don't know how to use English correctly.

Done already several times over, thanks. I never said you don't know how to use English correctly; I only said that you're backpedaling, and doing it poorly. You're making this personal. A scummy reaction to an accusation, which only serves to reinforce my belief that I'm right.

I've told you a billion times already that I'm not backpedaling, and you're misrepping what I said.

[EriktheRed]

Tell me how "DN is town" can mean anything but "DN is town", and how I'm misrepresenting it. You're the one trying to misrepresent the slip, not me. After I called you on it, you changed it and said, "I shoar am [confident]." That's going from a scummy position of certainty backward to a more defensible level of mere confidence. Backpedaling.

[DeathNote]

I dont find Sarag's actions scummy. Maybe a bit rude in expecting us to just go along with what he says, but I understand why Zwet shouldn't rob graves. He gets to much attention and has already heard noise which could mean death. I think that someone else should rob grave.

I am sorry for lurking but there is so many different accusations going on that if I say one more stupid thing, people would jump right back on my bandwagon.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I dont find Sarag's actions scummy. Maybe a bit rude in expecting us to just go along with what he says, but I understand why Zwet shouldn't rob graves. He gets to much attention and has already heard noise which could mean death. I think that someone else should rob grave.

I am sorry for lurking but there is so many different accusations going on that if I say one more stupid thing, people would jump right back on my bandwagon.

The last sentence of this post troubles me greatly. He's essentially admitting he's lurking to avoid people jumping on his bandwagon, with the lame excuse of "if I say one more stupid thing, people would jump right back on".
Substitute stupid with scummy, and you'd be about right.

FoS:DeathNote

Stop lurking, maybe try not to be stupid and make some posts of note. Town shouldn't be worried about getting a wagon on themselves unless they're a PR, since a wagon on a town almost always has scum pushing it, and their pushing makes them noticable.

[zwetschenwasser]

Tell me how "DN is town" can mean anything but "DN is town", and how I'm misrepresenting it. You're the one trying to misrepresent the slip, not me. After I called you on it, you changed it and said, "I shoar am [confident]." That's going from a scummy position of certainty backward to a more defensible level of mere confidence. Backpedaling.

DN is town is my way of saying that I'm confident he is town.

[dramonic]

Vote: EriktheRed

You're just trying to create a (bad) case out of thin air.

[zwetschenwasser]

YEA

[EriktheRed]

DN is town is my way of saying that I'm confident he is town.

Which is what you should've said in the very beginning, instead of trying to change it after the fact and getting scummily emotional. Had you reacted in a more townie fashion, I'd have laid off by now.

However, I think I might be tunneling on Zwet a bit, so I'm going to take a couple steps back and reread some with fresh eyes in the morning.