Newbie 810 - Game over!

[KittyMo]

Also, BlueRaven:
The scum would win if it got to the point where there were 2 town and 2 scum. That is stated in the rules in this post.

[BlueRaven]

ah right, so that equil sinario would never emerge. thanks for pointing out my mistake.

[KittyMo]

Well, the equal scenario would emerge if we lynch a townie today, and lynch a townie tomorrow, assuming someone gets nightkilled tonight.

[BlueRaven]

but why would the scum opt their NK?

[Raskol]

K, looks like I have a bit of explaining of my own to do here.

First of all---I backed off of ronnie (temporarily) because her replies, though they weren't what I might have hoped for from a townie teammate, didn't fit my read on her. I still think she's scummy, but the kind of scumminess I saw in her playstyle and the kind I got from her responses were totally different. If she were the kind of player I thought she was when I first attacked her, I think she would have tried to be more clever than she was in her defense.

So it makes me question my read. I still don't know if she's town, and I still think people should be a lore more suspicious than they were before (everyone was basically saying she was obvtown, which I don't think is right). I don't mind using my vote to pressure people, and I don't mind changing my vote when pressure is more useful elsewhere. I find the idea that changing your focus is scummy to be totally wrong, if there's a reason behind the change. So if you're going to be suspicious of me for that, whatever. Just remember what happened with Zach.

Also---for what it's worth, if it's going to be a choice between Riddle and Geek, I really think Riddle is without a doubt a better choice than geek. Illiniguy's hammer alone is enough to make that player slot lynchable, and everything else that slot has done, through all of its 3 incarnations, has either been null or scum. I haven't seen a single definitely protown action out of that slot all game, whereas geek has been a lot more helpful.

12keyblade hasn't put out any kind of case against geek as afar as I know, he just posted a bunch of scumnumbers for everyone and said "based on that he has no trouble voting geek".

I don't trust Riddle as far as an infant can throw him. His 'analysis' was just a bunch of links to posts with

no

little elaboration on why he finds them scummy.

So tell me again, why are we considering Geeklynching?

As for possibilities---I think it can be put much shorter by saying that right now there are 2 scum and 5 town alive. If we mislynch today, then we will be in LyLo tomorrow.

Which brings me to my next, somewhat less important point: we have a lot more from geek to go on than we have from Riddle, which means it's going to be a lot better for us to have geek alive tomorrow in lylo than Riddle. We want as much info as possible tomorrow, and lynching a frequent contributor goes against that goal. Of course, that's secondary to trying to lynch scum, so I guess it's a good thing that Riddle is also scummier than Geek. Win/Win situation.

[KittyMo]

but why would the scum opt their NK?

Well, it's not often done, but scum will sometimes do it to help them forge a doc claim. Or, the actual doctor will interfere. (But we may or may not have on in this game, so...yeah.)

[KittyMo]

Your above post makes a lot of sense, Raskol. I think I'll go ahead and go with a

FAKEvote: Riddle

, since I'm still unsure if we're going with deadline lynch, or normal lynch.

[BlueRaven]

ok, makes sence kitty and i agree with raskol, riddle is the best lynch candidate for today...

unvote

but lets see where this goes in the next 24 hours...

[Raskol]

Well, Kitty, if we want to lynch Riddle at least one of you is going to have to vote for him, since as you said, Geek got two votes first and as it is now he will be the one lynched at deadline.

So I say we grab the best of both worlds and agree that one of you will vote for Riddle and the other will not hammer. Then we let discussion run until deadline, and if anyone hammers and ends the day early, we'll consider it a massive scumtell.

[Raskol]

Alright, but to avoid simulposting, make sure you agree on the plan and agree which one of you will vote, so that you don't both vote at the same time.

[Raskol]

At deadline, ½ the original number of votes will be required for a lynch. In the case of a tie, the person who first received the required number of votes will be lynched. If this number is not met, a No Lynch will occur. There will be no reduced number of votes in LyLo.

Mod, rule clarification please. If riddle ends the day with more votes than geek, that will result in a riddle lynch even though geek got the "required 1/2" first, won't it? Want to make sure that this plan will actually work. =/

[KittyMo]

Whoa, good job catching that. Could we also just have someone unvote Geek, though, to fix that problem?

[geekalicious]

Well, if you're a townie, even if you feel frustrated and backed into a wall, you must do what you can to help the town. Zach's refusal to defend himself at the end just ended up hurting the town, but the cases he made on people still live on for us to look at and use. So, if we decide to lynch you over Riddle, and you're a townie, please give us all the information you can.

Alright, I can do that.

12Keyblade

He's been acting very odd lately.

ronnieroo (6) Honestly seems town, but at the same time, Zach's case rings some bells...really, I think this needs moved.

This part of his Scum-O-Meter is contradictory. Very soon afterwards he says

Ummm...holy crap. Can I be perfectly honest for a minute? I'm considering voting for Raskol just for that. I don't see ronnie's playstyle as scummy in the least...OK, slightly. Very, very little. Like, almost not at all. Point is, I never considered voting for such a pro-town player. I really want to see the reasons behind this, or my vote may go from geek to Raskol.

Wait, she goes from a 6 to almost completely non-scummy that quickly? When I press him about the issue, he doesn't even defend himself. He just says

Haha. You're so funny. I don't play those games. Please don't pretend like I do.

As I said before, not an argument and thus pushes him into a higher level of scummy for me. Additionally, he mentions having a "delusional day". Uh huh. Again, not an argument, just a very odd excuse.

Strawmanning=weak. I really don't want a flame war here.

Wait, so are you threatening to start a flame war with me on a mafia forum? Again, scummy.

BlueRaven

I'm pleased with the fact that BlueRaven's most recent posts have been longer and better thought out than his initial batch of posts. My main issues with him have mostly been the lack of posting combined with the lack of content when he does post. Hm....

Unvote

KittyMo

I'm not opportunistically jumping on ronnieroo. As you'll note, I had already placed her in my Purgatory category when I rated her. Seeing the way she's reacting to Raskol's questioning is only tipping her into the Wolf Lean category for me.

Hmmm. I must have you confused with someone else then. Sorry about that.

You shouldn't have thrown out there that I was leaping on ronnieroo without reason if you weren't certain. However, I'm still overall really seeing you as a townie.

Riddle

Hm.... I'm really thinking about the possibility of a Riddle lynch. His predecessor illiniguy09 was rather scummy. I mentioned earlier that I wanted to give him a chance to defend himself against his predecessor's bad reputation, though. Thus far... well, I don't really think he's doing well. Almost all of the points against me that he listed have been a re-hash of points other players made. I don't really any reasoning behind it besides the game links that he posted which I'm guessing he figures just speak for themselves.

Raskol

Came in and waged a case against ronnieroo. Nothing scummy about the case that I can see.... However, what came after was:

Riddle, on the other hand, still isn't here, and so....

Unvote

Vote: Riddle

I my view, that's our best target for today. I could go into all the reasons why, but most of what needed to be said about Krauthammer and Illini already has been, and Riddle has been evasive and hasn't contributed anything. So let's lynch him.

The reasoning behind the case wasn't as strong as his other case. Earlier, Raskol had said

Riddle----I found both of your predecessors scummy and I think you'd be best served making sure you make up for their mistakes. I wouldn't mind lynching you either at this point, at all. Get into the conversation.

However, Raskol didn't wait for Riddle to get back into the conversation before he voted for him. Somewhat scummy since I believe he should have waited for Riddle to make at least one post before voting for him.

ronnieroo

I feel like my current points against ronnieroo are basically summed up in my post 663.

Additionally, I'm sorry if I'm doing bad town play right now.... With the majority of players on my case for the whole game, I'm just starting to feel like I'm cracking.

[Raskol]

Whoa, good job catching that. Could we also just have someone unvote Geek, though, to fix that problem?

I guess we could, though I doubt if Riddle will do it, since it results in his lynch, and I'm not sure keyblade will be willing or even here to do it. I agree that if possible that would be a safer option.

Or I guess you could just wait until the deadline and then vote for Riddle if you're worried about doing it now for some reason. It will be as good as a hammer, that is if it's true that riddle will by lynched by having more votes than geek.

[BlueRaven]

i thought it was 1/2 the populations votes, not 1/2 the votes. if so then we would need a hammer on him.

[KittyMo]

i thought it was 1/2 the populations votes, not 1/2 the votes. if so then we would need a hammer on him.

[quote="[http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 61#1742661]The Rules[/url]"[/quote]
At deadline, ½ the original number of votes will be required for a lynch. In the case of a tie, the person who first received the required number of votes will be lynched. If this number is not met, a No Lynch will occur. There will be no reduced number of votes in LyLo.[/quote]

[KittyMo]

EBWOP:

At deadline, ½ the original number of votes will be required for a lynch. In the case of a tie, the person who first received the required number of votes will be lynched. If this number is not met, a No Lynch will occur. There will be no reduced number of votes in LyLo.

[BlueRaven]

so that means that someone needs to have 4 votes otherwise there will be no lynch so we have to have a hammer without beeing looked on as scummy.

[KittyMo]

No, no, no. Normally, to lynch, we need a simple majority of votes: since we have 7 alive, we need half of 7, rounded up. (4)

But, if the deadline hits, we'll only need half of the normal number of votes, which would be 2 votes needed for a lynch.

Does that make sense?

[Raskol]

I'm pretty sure it means that it originally takes half of all player votes (4) to lynch someone before deadline, but when the deadline hits, half that number (2) will be enough.

Hopefully Vel-Rahn will be in here soon to clear everything up, though. Probably better to do nothing for the moment, as long as neither of you are planning to disappear anytime soon.

Man you guys are overthinking this.

It states the required number to Lynch in every vote count.

The rules state that, AT DEADLINE, 1/2 that number is needed.

Therefore, if you want to lynch someone before deadline, you need 4, since there's 7 alive. At deadline, it's only 2.

[KittyMo]

I'm going to be here pretty much all day, but tomorrow I won't be here after 9:30am Pacific, until late. (Perhaps a couple of hours before the deadline?)

Sorry if I'm flooding the thread. >.<

[BlueRaven]

im going for dinner at my nans tomorrow and will be there pritty much all day, i'll see if i can use the comp but i cant make any pormises.

[Raskol]

Well, I don't care how it gets done, as long as it does. I would just like things to be really clear.

So, is it right that as of now you're planning on being the one to vote for Riddle, and you're going to do it sometime before 9:30 am pacific?

[Raskol]

btw that was to kitty.

[12Keyblade]

Raskol:

OK Mon, here's your info:

Post 53: Begins the long chain of overanalysing my random vote for reverendpsycho.
Post 64: Places the second vote on BlueRaven. He also placed the second vote on TFGM, so either he's on at all the wrong times, or he likes to be second on bandwagons.
Post 157:

I'm not following others. I look at the person's actions, I look at points that others have brought up about them, and then I take the action I see fit.

And yet, in both cases where you were vote #2 (and the only votes you had placed up to that point), there was little to no content between your vote and the first one.
Post 395: Places the second vote on Zachrulez because of his case on ronnieroo. To me, ronnie seems town, but geek's blatant defense puts me on edge. Also selectivly quoted Zach to make him seem scummier.
Post 440: Possible, maybe, not really, but kinda buddying to Kitty. I may have said the exact same things, which is why it's not a big deal for me.
Post 495:

Oh great.... Both of our IC's are dead.... >_<

This falls along the same lines as "Good job Doctor!" or "Darn, our cop is dead." IMO, a null tell, but to some it's a light-up billboard.
Post 510: A post from ronnie, which I just noticed, which may be returning the favor of geek defending her.
Post 523:

The only commentary that I can make is that I think that at least 12Keyblade and/or ronnieroo is cleared from being scum since they were both on V/LA during the period of time when night actions needed to be submitted. That means that at least one scum (or perhaps both) was definitely in town during the period to submit a night kill.

Never. Ever. Metagame. The. Night. Don't forget it.
Posts 529 and 530: Please read these loverly posts from our new player Monsieur for more detail than what I've put here.
Post 569:

So why couldn't I have been doing the same thing instead of "panicking"? Granted, I was sick, but what led you to jump to the conclusion that I was lurking?

I wasn't aware that you were sick, and as such, I apologize.

So unless anyone (besides the accused) is against it, I will vote for geek after illin's replacement shows up and offers his opinion, unless that manages to sway me in the extreme.

There's my case against geek.