Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Battle Mage (3): alexhans, Zachrulez, Kmd4390
Debonair Danny DiPietro (3): Benmage, Vi, SpyreX
GIEFF (1): Battle Mage
SensFan (1): GIEFF
SpyreX (1): Debonair Danny DiPietro

Not Voting: SensFan, jammer

6 to lynch

[Vi]

I mean, they both know how to get me to contribute so they can evaluate my stances and opinions. The fact that they haven't done that suggests to me that they're simply looking for the next lurker lynch instead of actually trying to scumhunt.

The last time I checked, I was not responsible for your contribution. But thanks for admitting to being a lurker; I feel quite validated.

Why would I deny something that's so obviously the truth. You'll have to excuse me if I don't congratulate you for this insight though; seeing as how I announced this was how I was going to play.

Right, and that makes everything better somehow
Feel free to keep posting while you're here. It's an open forum; talk about whatever you like as long as it's related to the game.

---

Oh, SpyreX ♪

My argument has been that IF GIEFF is town he will be a NK before we reach true-lylo. This is not because he is SUPER TOWN, but because he has been the most active player in this game.

And what, exactly, does this have to do with anything? Anything useful, at any rate.

Going back to DDD's explanation, I'm reading GIEFF 1859 and agreeing with it nicely. To say that GIEFF was thought of as pro-Town throughout the game is quite simply false. For the first 500 posts he consistently had three votes on him; his anti-fan club (Zach, Benmage, Kmd, a side of SpyreX) have been on-and-off voting him throughout. As for being the most active player in the game, I'm really not buying that as a fact or as a worthy reason to push whatever it is you're trying to get across in the above quote.

In comparison,

Actually, let's hold on changing the subject for a moment.
You've now seen two fairly direct references to "cases" on Battle Mage. I'd like to see your response to them.

I would also like to know your *present* opinion of GIEFF, since in voting DDD you took your vote off of him.

So, you're either Beetlejuice or power-lurking scum ex machina.

"Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice!"
"Debonair Danny DiPietro!"
I see the resemblance

[SpyreX]

And what, exactly, does this have to do with anything? Anything useful, at any rate.

Going back to DDD's explanation, I'm reading GIEFF 1859 and agreeing with it nicely. To say that GIEFF was thought of as pro-Town throughout the game is quite simply false. For the first 500 posts he consistently had three votes on him; his anti-fan club (Zach, Benmage, Kmd, a side of SpyreX) have been on-and-off voting him throughout. As for being the most active player in the game, I'm really not buying that as a fact or as a worthy reason to push whatever it is you're trying to get across in the above quote.

This whole diatribe is a function of the great conspiracy theory on BM and SpyreX are together forming a framework where GIEFF gets mislynched later because of the fact he isn't dead.

Which is space awesome.

I've been saying that 1.) we have no obvTown this game and 2.) an active "scummy" player is still going to be far more of a threat than a power lurker which leads to 3.) if GIEFF is town he's a marked man.

Unfortunately that is a giant freaking IF.

Actually, let's hold on changing the subject for a moment.
You've now seen two fairly direct references to "cases" on Battle Mage. I'd like to see your response to them.

I would also like to know your *present* opinion of GIEFF, since in voting DDD you took your vote off of him.

I have?

I'm totally missing what GIEFF had to say about BM in a simple format.

You are rightish about alex though. I apparently totally missed it.

He voted Mastin.
Unvoted, Voted Me.
Pushed my case a lot. He was "convinced" until people started disbelieving his case.
Then voted GIEFF.
Then, suddenly. Called GIEFF town.
When Mastin was getting lynched. He called Mastin Obv town.
After VP's death. He called VP obv town.
He was CLEARLY against a BCC lynch and pushed a Cephir one.
He was NOT on the Cephir waggon.

To start, I would like the collaborating posts. I'm not ashamed to admit the idea of going back and hunting all this down makes my insides simply die.

Specifically line(s) 3, 6 and 8.

Some of the others really mean very little but its not my place to break it out.

Presently? I still think he is scummy. However, he is not near as scummy as DDD. Especially with this last post.

I find his question of "What has DDD done that is scummy?" odd and doubly-odd that he would suggest that you should find yourself scummy due to your predecessors on that logic.

A younger, more optimistic SpyreX would say something along the lines of "If DDD is scum, GIEFF is a good suspect" but that one died when the lurkers were town.

[GIEFF]

Why is it odd to ask what DDD's done that is scummy? How is that different than you asking for a case on BM?

[Vi]

SpyreX:
one (alex #81)
two (GIEFF 1859)

I've been saying that 1.) we have no obvTown this game and 2.) an active "scummy" player is still going to be far more of a threat than a power lurker which leads to 3.) if GIEFF is town he's a marked man.

I still don't understand WHY you're saying this.
I'm a poor innocent replacement, still scarred from reading 75 pages and expected to remember and fully understand all of it. Please tell me as easily as you can what's going on with this line of thought :bambi:

We need more Kmd and jammer. The offer to freely speak is still available for King DeDæDi.

[SpyreX]

Sorry:

"What has DDD done that is scummy besides contribute lightly?"

Which is in direct response to detailing his absence of contribution.

Versus: "I want you to compile your case on BM"

Now, after you do said thing, if I go "Yea, but what has he done that is scummy besides that?" then there is a comparison.

[GIEFF]

But that's the point - if the only case against DDD is absence of contribution, then others fit that bill to a greater degree.

[SpyreX]

Strategic and willful absence of contribution.

Who else is doing that?

And to a greater degree?

[GIEFF]

I don't get a scumvibe from DDD. He hasn't contributed much less than KMD has (from whom I DO get a scumvibe), and far more than bcc/Kai did.

[SpyreX]

bbc/Kai has been replaced. There is nothing strategic about that. The argument of "lurking" for them can only be applied if, and only if, additionally you find Vi scummy.

KMD I could also get behind for the same thing but he doesn't have this amazing habit of showing up when called upon.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

See, at this point SpyreX has revealed his desperation by twisting how I'm playing the game. No, I'm not wall posting or anything close to it, but I show up regularly to comment on the latest goings on. And he knows as well as anyone that I'll show up to answer any questions directed my way; so why hasn't he put any towards me? Because he wants my mislynch and he can't smear me as "under contributing" if he actually tries to involve me in the game.

[SpyreX]

Then contribute.

I think my statement about how your assessment of me in regards to GIEFF is, to be mild, crazy pants would be a start.

[Zachrulez]

bbc/Kai has been replaced. There is nothing strategic about that. The argument of "lurking" for them can only be applied if, and only if, additionally you find Vi scummy.

Why exactly does Vi need to appear scummy in order for us to apply the lurking argument to his predecessor? I understand the whole "you can't completely hold them accountable for the actions of who they replace." But there's a counter argument about the fact that you don't necessarily need to completely forgive the actions either. A replacement is a convenient time to completely wipe away that kind of suspicion.

KMD I could also get behind for the same thing but he doesn't have this amazing habit of showing up when called upon.

Hey Vi, how do you think this compares to my "uncaring just get any lynch between Cephrir and BCC" position?

Also, I'm pleased that you are finally with us on Gieff's 1859 in understanding that the argument of Gieff not being nked as "vocal town" being a weak point of contention. Though I also find is somewhat annoying, as it's confusing me about my read on you.

I'm most suspicious of Spyrex and Battle Mage at this point anyway.

[SpyreX]

"With us"? Nice.

If the argument is "They are lurking because they don't want to contribute as scum" and they get flat out replaced well that doesn't really serve their win condition as any respectable player doesn't count a game as a win when they get replaced.

So, if there are other factors then simply lurking in favor of BCC (which I haven't seen) then of COURSE those still apply.

See, this would have worked with Ceph except for the fact the MOD said that Ceph at night was active enough to tell him he was staying in.

[GIEFF]

So, if there are other factors then simply lurking in favor of BCC (which I haven't seen) then of COURSE those still apply.

But this is my point about Danny - other then inactivity, there are not other factors in favor of his lynch, and so I am asking people to provide them. I don't want to lynch Vi OR Danny today - I am done lynching people simply for not contributing.

I would like today's lynch to be based on scumminess, not on someone who lacks enough posts needed to gage scumminess (which I don't think even applies to DDD, he has enough posts to read as town to me).

[SpyreX]

The nature of his lurking is the issue at hand. He's here. He's choosing not to play. He's came out and OMGUS'd me based on moon logic.

As for the other and I may have missed it but a concise version of BM case yes/no?

[Benmage]

DDD reads scum to me.

[GIEFF]

I will try to take the time to make the BM case for you, but it will be a lot of work, and will be a long post. You said you would read his behavior yesterday regarding bcc vs. Cephrir - have you gotten a chance to do so yet?

[SpyreX]

In detail but I may be suffering from confirmation bias. I'm not seeing anything that stands out like OHH SNAP SCUM FOUND.

[GIEFF]

Why, Benmage? Based on your posts, it looks like you are voting him for

a) his town vs. scum posting frequency
b) his "uselessness" this game


Is that right?

[Benmage]

His overall play to. I did a mini review of the games where he was scum/3rd party(culda sworn i mentioned this) but his frequency and manner matches in my opinion.

Also you can call it from overall play this game and gut...take your pick.

[GIEFF]

Numerically, at least, the frequency and amount of posts do NOT match, as his town and scum posting behaviors are similar. I feel partly responsible for your vote Benmage, as it came directly after (and likely as a result of) a mistake I made in putting the stats together. The updated stats are not incriminating in my eyes.

[Benmage]

I looked at the updated stats. I also looked at the threads aforementioned...not the stats behind them. And analyzed several aspects. I toyed with unvoting to switch to jammer whom I also feel is scum. But I am satisfied with my vote on DDD.

And yes I also think the revised stats were still incriminating.

[alexhans]

I will try to take the time to make the BM case for you, but it will be a lot of work, and will be a long post. You said you would read his behavior yesterday regarding bcc vs. Cephrir - have you gotten a chance to do so yet?

I'd prefer if you DIDN'T make a long case against BM... You've already proved that you can't investigate with a neutral mentality and you just look for things to support your theory and find ways to fit everything towards your conclusion.

In other words. Any "large & intense" scumhunting you migth do will be worth ZERO in my eyes (And probably in most people's eyes). I don't forget what you did about Camn and me.

Try making overall and short points and only develop if they ask you about them...

[SensFan]

Vi found Scum in DDD.
Vi probably also found Scum in Zach.
I'm thinking the last Scum is probably one of alex/Benmage/jammer/GIEFF

Have a good day.