Newbie 817 (Game over!)

[Starbuck]

I don't see that knowing bouched's alignment would be particularly more helpful than knowing anyone else's, and I don't like this as a reason to support his lynch at all. Lynching someone because "it will be useful to know their alignment" is a good line for scum to push, because no one can say they were wrong if the player in question turns up town.

Do you think Mae's lurking has been more egregious than jeromus?

---

Lynches I would support at the moment:

jeromus
VRK
startrans

in that order.

Unvote, Vote: jeromus

Why do you not vote for vrk instead if you think the vrk push is something a scum would pull? Lurkers don’t always have to be scum. Although it does bother me that he has time to answer the prod yet not make a substantial post at least once in a while.

@hiphop - Sometimes voting for someone who is lurking is to put pressure on them. If they see they are being voted, then they *might* turn up and we *might* get a substantial post out of them.

[hiphop]

The keyword is might. Do not count your chickens before they hatch. There is always the chace of them not posting just because you voted for them.

[Starbuck]

I've seen it more often than not that people respond when they see that they are being suspected.

[Elmo]

Day 1, Vote Count #7

hiphop (2) <- crazypianist1116, bouchedufou
bouchedufou <- hiphop
jeromus <- iamausername

Not voting: Starbuck, Maemuki, jeromus, startransmission, Vel-Rahn Koon.

The

deadline

is Friday, 14th August 22:00 UTC, which is 3 days, 4 hours and 5 minutes from this post. If deadline hits, there will be No Lynch.
With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch. jeromus has requested replacement.

[hiphop]

In this case apparently he didn't want to post, because he has asked for a replacement.

So iamausername are you going to change your vote, or are you going to leave it as is, waiting for the replacement to say something to convince you not to vote him?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

If I

had

to lynch someone right now it would be bouche, followed closely by Mae. He (gender ?) has had several people push against him, and knowing his alignment would help lead us to other potential suspects. Mae's lynch wouldn't help get us much more information like bouche's could potentially get us, but the active lurking is not helping get a handle on alignment. Good question crazy - do you have an opinion as well to add?

I don't see that knowing bouched's alignment would be particularly more helpful than knowing anyone else's, and I don't like this as a reason to support his lynch at all. Lynching someone because "it will be useful to know their alignment" is a good line for scum to push, because no one can say they were wrong if the player in question turns up town.

Do you think Mae's lurking has been more egregious than jeromus?

---

Lynches I would support at the moment:

jeromus
VRK
startrans

in that order.

Unvote, Vote: jeromus

Notice how the question was asked and the bolded part of my statement. If I

HAD

to lynch someone,

RIGHT NOW

. Frankly I don't see any "good" candidates for lynching at the moment. But we're not under the HAVE TO clause at this time - we still have until Friday.

As for the jero versus Mae line, yes I do think Mae's lurking has been more egregious because her lurking has been more active than jero's. And since Elmo is replacing jero I have to believe the problems he said he was having were genuine.

you shouldn't assume in this game either, just because I haven't voted yet, doesn't mean I don't have my suspicions. I would like to have the active lurkers weigh in a bit more.

That is the problem, why should they weigh in, if you are not? Your suspicions make them post. The reason this game is slow is because nobody finds a reason to weigh in. "I do not want to tip off the scum, so I won't weigh in." is what I get off of vrk. Somebody must weigh in, and throw suspicion around. I have news for you. The scum already know everything the town knows. In fact they have an advantage, being they know who they are and who we are. So vrk, I would appreciate if you let a little more info leak out. We beginner players may not see everything you seem, so we have even more of a disadvantage.

Fair enough. I will do a PBPA of everyone within the next 24 hours, since the deadline is near. I'm not going to write a wall of text - I will give a synopsis of my major suspicions with regards to each player. The read through this will require may spark something that I hadn't considered before.

[iamausername]

Why do you not vote for vrk instead if you think the vrk push is something a scum would pull? Lurkers don’t always have to be scum. Although it does bother me that he has time to answer the prod yet not make a substantial post at least once in a while.

Yeah, pretty much what Starbuck said. If someone is not keeping up with the game for whatever reason (as appears to have been the case with jeromus), then voting them won't do anything. But if they are keeping up with the game and just not posting, then the vote is probably going to provoke a response from them, which is what I was aiming for. I definitely don't think it would stop them from posting something they were planning to post before seeing my vote.

So iamausername are you going to change your vote, or are you going to leave it as is, waiting for the replacement to say something to convince you not to vote him?

Well, you'll find out at the end of this post!

No skipping ahead though. You don't want to spoil the suspense.

Notice how the question was asked and the bolded part of my statement. If I

HAD

to lynch someone,

RIGHT NOW

. Frankly I don't see any "good" candidates for lynching at the moment. But we're not under the HAVE TO clause at this time - we still have until Friday.

I'm well aware of the context, and I somewhat agree with the "no good candidates" point, but I don't see that it makes that much difference to my central point. You're still arguing for the lynch of someone that I believe to be town, for reasons that I find scummy.

And yes, we really are under the HAVE TO clause. Factor in the time for the leading lynch candidate to claim, and for everyone else to evaluate their claim and respond to it, and we really need to be coming to some kind of consensus on who that leading lynch candidate actually is, ooh, about yesterday.

As for the jero versus Mae line, yes I do think Mae's lurking has been more egregious because her lurking has been more active than jero's. And since Elmo is replacing jero I have to believe the problems he said he was having were genuine.

You can't really use jeromus's replacement to justify your position before we knew he was being replaced, but otherwise, fair enough.

---

So, yes, just in case I didn't stress the urgency enough earlier:

WE DO NOT HAVE MUCH TIME. IF YOU ARE NOT VOTING, YOU SHOULD BE.

Unvote, Vote: Vel-Rahn Koon

If it comes down to a choice between hiphop or bouched (I specify these two because they are the only other players who have any votes at all right now), I will vote for hiphop.

If it comes down to a choice between lynching

anyone

and lynching no one, I will vote to lynch someone.

[hiphop]

I can always change my vote in the next two days, but for now...

unvote, vote Maemuki

in the hall with the wrench. If I am wrong and you are in the ballroom, please say something. Sorry, wrong game.

For the real reason. Make a post with some essence. Give us anything, the most irritating person, your hunch, most-likely to be town, most suspicious. Anything is better than nothing.

Vel and Startransmission please hurry up with those posts.

I want a lynch too. Not making a lynch would seriously hurt the town. Time is ticking

[Starbuck]

Currently, I find hiphop the scummiest.

On hiphop, he replaced in and I tried to give him benefit of the doubt because he did replace a really horrible player. I really didn't understand his vote on Iamausername since we were already out of RVS.

As for if I had to lynch someone, I would lynch bouched, the person who I am voting for, otherwise why would I vote for him in the first place?

A vote can be used for a number of things. You can place the L-1 vote causing someone to claim or you can place a vote on someone that's lurking in hopes that the pressure of a vote might bring them back to the thread. I don't like that you don't even consider either of these options when I brought up the reasoning behind Iamausername's vote on Jeromus.

Lurkers don’t always have to be scum. Although it does bother me that he has time to answer the prod yet not make a substantial post at least once in a while.

As of late, he seems to be trying to divert attention from himself and Jeromus. I knew what Iamausername was trying to do, and when I pointed it out, hiphop argued with me that I was wrong. It seems like he is trying to keep that player spot alive.


This bothers me:

I wasn’t accusing you. I was just wondering if you find school fun. School is where people are lectured. To me that is boring, and games are supposed to be fun. If nobody follows bouched’s logic, shouldn’t that be an explanation enough, that his point is wrong. If he realizes this he will change anyways. Faulty logic, holes in text, they are the same thing to me.

It's like he doesn't want us to dig deeper.


I also don't like the reasoning he gave for his Bouched vote.

Just because he said he has only played themed base games, doesn't qualify him as non-mafia.
He also targeted me first, after I only made 1 post.

His vote changes have boggled me. In his short tenure, he has changed his vote 4 times.

hiphop's votes -
Iamausername in first post
Startransmission in third post
Bouched in eighth post
Maemuki in his latest

If you are so sure that Bouched is scum and if you are so against a vote being used to put pressure on someone, why this change of heart?

Vote: hiphop

[crazypianist1116]

Mod: Is replacing someone with less than 3 days left considered an extreme circumstance?

I'm asking for an extension since there will be no lynch if we don't reach the required number of votes.

[Starbuck]

I've replaced into games where we have been hours from a deadline. I would hope we have one before night hits.

[hiphop]

I am not against votes being usd as pressure votes. I said it doesn't always work. In my very first game in playing mafia on another site, I tried it, it didn't work. The other player ignored me completely, because he had nothing to hide.

No one can be ever sure of scum, until at least the first night is over. So don't pull that on me. I don't believe that bouched should of gotten off so easily, without a little pressure. One person cannot, and will never provide pressure unless there are less than five players in the game. Majority rules. I stated clearly in the top of my post that I plan to change my vote on Maemuki. Based on any informtion right now, which is very little, the only person, besides me, (since you believe I deserve a lynch) that has an incriminating evidence is bouched. If my votes stir any activity, I would be happy. Maemuki posts don't provide anythng incriminating against her or anybody else. Will she follow your three votes and vote me, like she followed you guys on bagsquad's bw? We will see.

[hiphop]

The two scummiest people I find right now are bouched and iamausername. This quote made by username sums it up.

If it comes down to a choice between hiphop or bouched (I specify these two because they are the only other players who have any votes at all right now), I will vote for hiphop.

That's fence sitting. That is pushing for my lynch without voting for me. Very bad, and very scummy indeed. You are sitting on that fence, waiting to see if anybody will jump in. Later after my lynch, you can say, "He had the most votes on him I didn’t know if he was scum or not.”
2nd thing about this quote. I don’t know how you can get a town read from bouched. You are defending him for no reason. That is budding. That is also very bad. You cannot know for sure of which side he is on without being scum. Since you say he is town, he is scum too.

This quote shows me that iamausername is fence sitting, and budding, two scummy acts. This leads me to believe he is scum.

@VDK iamausername’s lynch will provide more information than bouched’s lynch. However I would still be happy to lynch either one of these. Plus he has the most evidence pointing his way, double whammy.

Maemuki I still want you to post, however I have more important ways to use my vote,

vote:iamausername

For anyone’s info I find that starbuck and startranmission seem to be the most likely to be town.

oh before I forget

fos

bouched

[Starbuck]

^ That is the 5th time hiphop has changed his vote.

I'm definitely staying with my vote.

[hiphop]

forgot to unvote

unvote
vote:iamausername

[Maemuki]

Gosh.

I still think that bouched is the most suspicious, followed by hiphop. So, unless deadline is about to hit, I'm not going to vote on hiphop. I find him having way too much indecision - but that is one of the caracteristics of day one, but it still is suspicious.

And...that last line...If I wanted to lynch you - I would do it because I wanted it, not because other people voted you. Don't assume I'm always a copycat, I might be it sometimes, granted. But I have my own brain too. (Even if I sometimes don't show it.) And why did you change your vote to iamusername?

[Starbuck]

And just like that as soon as a vote was placed, Mae showed up.

Mae, you are the other person that I am most suspicious of.

You are doing what is called active lurking. Please start posting something of substance rather than poking your head in whenever you see your name.

[bouchedufou]

When hiphop first voted for Maemuki I was thinking that if we lynched hiphop and he turned out to be scum, Maemuki would probably be town. However, is it suspicious that hiphop switched votes rather quickly away from Maemuki without any real reason (Maemuki hadn't posted yet at that point, and why didn't hiphop start voting iama?). Is this suspicion valid, or is it merely due to hiphop's wild voting? I'd like to know how are the more experienced players reading this?

[hiphop]

When hiphop first voted for Maemuki I was thinking that if we lynched hiphop and he turned out to be scum, Maemuki would probably be town. However, is it suspicious that hiphop switched votes rather quickly away from Maemuki without any real reason (Maemuki hadn't posted yet at that point, and why didn't hiphop start voting iama?). Is this suspicion valid, or is it merely due to hiphop's wild voting? I'd like to know how are the more experienced players reading this?

I was afraid with iamausername saying people need to vote, that everybody would follow the bw of me, before Maemuki would post. I already have three votes. Two is not hard to find. I wanted to show my suspicions before I went to bed, so that people didn't jump on me, before morning. Remember the scum are the only two who know everybodies alignment.

[Maemuki]

I'll try to become more active from now on, Starbuck.

hiphop, if the two scum didn't vote yet, they wouldn't be as stupid to bandwagon you. Then we would know exactly who they were. And, granted, deadline is close. But it isn't hours away....yet.

[Elmo]

Day 1, Vote Count #8

hiphop (3) <- crazypianist1116, bouchedufou, Starbuck
Vel-Rahn Koon <- iamausername
iamausername <- hiphop

Not voting: Maemuki, Petunho, startransmission, Vel-Rahn Koon.

The

deadline

is Friday, 14th August 22:00 UTC, which is 2 days, 2 hours and 13 minutes from this post. If deadline hits, there will be No Lynch.
With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Petunho replaces jeromus - thanks!

Mod: Is replacing someone with less than 3 days left considered an extreme circumstance?

Nope.

[hiphop]

hiphop, if the two scum didn't vote yet, they wouldn't be as stupid to bandwagon you. Then we would know exactly who they were.

I never used this term before, but I bleieve that is WIFOM. You won't know what the scum did until they are lynched, or the game is over.

[Starbuck]

YAY for a replacement!

[hiphop]

@Petunho when you get a chance can you give us your thoughts on the game?
An outsider's view is always helpful.

[iamausername]

I find him having way too much indecision - but that is one of the caracteristics of day one, but it still is suspicious.

Why is it still suspicious?

That's fence sitting. That is pushing for my lynch without voting for me. Very bad, and very scummy indeed. You are sitting on that fence, waiting to see if anybody will jump in. Later after my lynch, you can say, "He had the most votes on him I didn’t know if he was scum or not.”

Fence sitting is the completely the wrong term; fence sitting would be not taking a position either way between you and bouched.

But semantics aside, I can't be waiting to see if anybody will jump in, because people

already have

jumped in. You were already one of the two most likely to end up as the day's lynch, that's why I made that comment in the first place. I think VRK is the most likely scum, but if no one else is convinced by my case there, voting him at deadline will be useless, so I'm telling everyone where my vote will go at deadline if things stay as they are. I don't see what's scummy about that.

2nd thing about this quote. I don’t know how you can get a town read from bouched.

I find that bouched has displayed a particular brand of confusion that is unique to newbie town players, and is hard to fake. That's how.

You are defending him for no reason.

False, I'm defending him because I think he's town.

That is budding. That is also very bad.

Call it 'buddying', but I disagree with the prevailing opinion that it's a bad thing to talk about who you think is town.

You cannot know for sure of which side he is on without being scum.

By this logic, we should just keep no lynching and waiting for the cop to tell us who the scum is, and if we don't have a cop, I guess we're just screwed.

You can't know for sure which side anyone is on unless you're scum. If you're town, you have to go with your best guess, that's pretty much how the game works.

For anyone’s info I find that starbuck and startranmission seem to be the most likely to be town.

Why isn't this buddying, and therefore bad, but me saying the same about bouched is?