Mini 833 - Empire at War(The game is over?)

[Kreriov]

@RestFermata - Wow, I should just print out your posts and take a red pen to them. Ok, you are lying once again. I most certainly did not imply Sajin was more likely to be town or scum or anything at all. I asked McavityLock if HE though Sajin was more likely to be town. I didn't imply anything at all and your continued attempts to twist words just make you look more scummy.

[xRECKONERx]

Well, that would be fine except since Sajin was scum in your last game, does that not make it much more likely he is not in this one?

I voted Kreriov because he was questioning the legitimacy of a random vote. And not even with good logic. It was with poor logic. Being scum in another game has no statistical correlation to someone being scum in this game.

Are you insinuating that Kre was joking with this post? Because if he was, I definitely missed it. o_0

[Kreriov]

@Reckoner - You certainly did miss it and apparently the entire conversation leading up to it. No, instead you tried to make something out of nothing. With you, as I have said, I am undecided if you are an overzealous townie just trying to find anything you can or a scum deliberately and incorrectly trying to make something out of nothing.

[Kreriov]

@Reckoner - As a bit of an aside, um, what, exactly, would the problem be in asking a question about a random vote in order to get things going? That is certainly not even close to anything you said in your initial post voting me.

[xRECKONERx]

Because for me it looked like you were trying to find scum by asking a question using faulty logic. You can meta me if you want: I usually base my scumhunting entirely off of people who use poor logic. I read the thread and I saw the post talking about Mac random-voted Sajin for being the only person he had played with, but I guess I missed the last part where he said "whatever, he's clearly scum in this one, too". So when I originally read your post, I thought it was very peculiar. But since Mac is the one who brought up the idea of Sajin being scum based on the previous game, I now see where I was wrong.

[Kreriov]

@Reckoner - Thank you. What do you think of me suspecting RestFermata for piggybacking off of you?

[Santos]

Vote: zwetschenwasser

for active lurking in post 40.

[Seraphim]

Almost the entire squad started yelling their suspicions at the top of their lungs. I'm a big fan of discussion but the process made me feel a bit...I dunno...scared. We were actually going to kill someone...

Vote Count:

Starbuck(0)

-

Sajin(1)

- MacavityLock

dothefandango(0)

-

Kdub(0)

-

Santos(1)

- Kdub

Kreriov(2)

- xRECKONERx, RestFermata

Jebus(1)

- Starbuck

zwetschenwasser(1)

- Santos

BloodCovenent(1)

- zwetschenwasser

MacavityLock(1)

- Sajin

xRECKONERx(1)

- BloodCovenent

RestFermata(1)

- Kreriov

Not Voting(2)

- dothefandango, Jebus

7 to Lynch
Deadline: 31/8/09

[xRECKONERx]

@Reckoner - Thank you. What do you think of me suspecting RestFermata for piggybacking off of you?

I definitely think RF's piggybacking was suspicious, but I'm in no place to accuse her of anything since I misinterpreted the same post. I'll

Unvote

for now, and place a

FoS: RestFermata

. I'd also like BC to explain why he so quickly jumped on me with a vote, and why he claimed Miller so early.

This is confusing.

Typical zwet post. Have you ever played with zwet, Santos?

[zwetschenwasser]

Kreriov is playing like he did as town in a game I modded. I think he is town now.

[Starbuck]

Well, that would be fine except since Sajin was scum in your last game, does that not make it much more likely he is not in this one?

I took this quote as sarcasm. Although it is tough to read intent over the internet, but that's how it read for me. MacavityLock does make a few good points in post 33.


I could see where at statement like that could bug someone (BloodCovenent, aka BC), and I do think xRECKONERX, aka xRx's vote on Krer is unwarranted based on that statement alone.

But I think Kreriov got very overdefensive about both of these things, and I'm not liking his ad hom attacks:

Either you have not bothered to read the context leading up to it or you are just trying to stir the pot, hopefully to spur discussion.

As for the asking a question part, you are failing in your logic and/or proper English comprehension.

Are you not reading my replies or are you deliberately 'misunderstanding' them for some reason?

Are you purposely condescending? Please stop.

Sorry ma'am. Oh, and by the way, you are wrong.

Oh, and once again I have to correct you.

Ok, you are lying once again.

This one bothers me and is not necessary at all to even joke about this type of thing:

Hey RestFermia, when did you stop beating your wife?

Also, I do not believe that you had the following in mind when you posted it:

It was intended to generate discussion and it has succeeded.

,

I think you were just being sarcastic and others have used it to generate discussion, you did not.

[Starbuck]

Also please note that Jebus has still not entered the game.

[RestFermata]

I am not lying or purposefully misrepresenting anyone. Go through my posts with a red pen if you'd like, and the most you will find are stupid mistakes. I suppose I simply cannot get how this:

"Well, that would be fine except since Sajin was scum in your last game, does that not make it much more likely he is not in this one?"

means what BC said it means. To me it means that Sajin is more likely to be town in this game because he was scum in the last game. It doesn't really matter to me, because I do believe it was a joke, but I guess I should make sure to understand it before I jump on anyone like BC for "misinterpreting" it, when I suppose I'm the one who doesn't understand. If someone can explain to me how this wording can mean that Saji's "likelihood of being scum is still the same as if Sajin were not in the last game," that would be great.

I don't want to get nitpicky though. I don't really care what Krer meant, because, as I said, I consider it tongue-in-cheek. And I suppose I should clarify by what the whole "asking questions is/is not townie" discussion is just this: that I agree that posing something as a question can actually be MORE SCUMMY than posing something as a STATEMENT at times, because it takes responsibility off the poster. In other words, agree with Reckoner's logic that posing something as a question can make something less obvious.

I was not "piggybacking." It was early-game, and I do a fair amount of reaching early-game. Sometimes I do a little wagoning, and sometimes I go off on a limb. It's never anything 100% concrete, but it's necessary to have a bit of an oversensitive scumdar in order to pull the game into full swing. The more you post, the more annoying I find your rather...hyperactive defenses, but I'm starting to think your responses are pretty town. They seem heartfelt. I just cited my newbie game in another game, but I'm going to do it again. Zwet, bear with me, because you've already read about it in the other game. PEG-town jumped on me-town, seemingly without reason, and I gushed out an angry wall-of-text response that made a lot of people think I was probably scum. Later, SL-town actually cited that "suspicious" post in order to prove his assertion that I was town, even after I had lurked most of the rest of the game away.

SL's post really made me think about looking for a townie's passion in people's responses/defenses, and I think I see a townie's passion in yours.

Unvote

As much as I find myself disagreeing with you, I just can't picture you being scum right now.

[zwetschenwasser]

YOU'RE ARGUING ABOUT A JOKE POST YOU FOOLS

[Sajin]

YOU'RE ARGUING ABOUT A JOKE POST YOU FOOLS

If a so claimed joke post has a scum tell or scum base should it be ignored? Remind me of this for my next scum game. When I screw up I am going to type "JOKE POST, just kidding about that guys" and they will all pronounce the slip as a null tell. Yep.


Mcavitylock, if your posted reasoning is something you do not believe in then why post that reasoning at all? Why did you find it necessary to justify your vote? (And as a side note- why participate in the RVS at all unless you can conclude off it, is it all just noise then to you?)

[MacavityLock]

Mcavitylock, if your posted reasoning is something you do not believe in then why post that reasoning at all? Why did you find it necessary to justify your vote? (And as a side note- why participate in the RVS at all unless you can conclude off it, is it all just noise then to you?)

People very often give stupid excuses for random votes. Mine was no different. In fact, basically every time someone doesn't give reasons (stupid or not) for their random votes, they get called on it. Are you really asking me to justify why I gave a reason for voting you?

Not only that, but I did the

exact same thing

with my random vote in WoT large mafia that I did here, and I was town. You know this. You were there. This is not to say that it means I'm town, but it's at worst null.

I do try to conclude something off of random votes: how people react to votes on them, stupid reasoning or not. The votes themselves matter not at all, the reactions are what counts.

The more I'm hearing from you, the more your argument seems to be about drumming up suspicion where it's not warranted. My random vote on you is now a qualified one.

[Sajin]

So you acted the way you did because if you did not you were fearful of people calling you out on it. Got it.

Why do you think its not warranted?

Also explain why your vote is now serious over before please.




Kreriov is likely town btw based on meta.

[MacavityLock]

So you acted the way you did because if you did not you were fearful of people calling you out on it. Got it.

Yup, you caught me. I've given a silly reason for my random vote in almost every game I've ever been in, therefore I'm scum in this one.

Why do you think its not warranted?

If you can tell me how you can find scum based on the reasons given for random votes (or not given), I will bow to your mastery.

Also explain why your vote is now serious over before please.

Already did: You're trying to stir up suspicion where it's obviously not warranted.

[Kdub]

I believe BC's claim because he risks being counterclaimed by a real miller if he is scum. I question whether it is actually good strategy, since it gives the scum a better chance of hitting power roles at night, but it's debatable. In all past games I've seen where someone claimed miller on D1, they were being truthful.

I don't really have a problem with Reckoner's initial vote on Kreriov, but I'm not liking his FoS of RestFermata. Seems a bit too sudden since he didn't say anything about her supposed "piggybacking" until Kreriov asked him directly a couple pages after it happened.

Unvote

FoS: xRECKONERx

[Kreriov]

@Starbuck - I might agree with the condensing bit (though definitely not meant to be insulting and not really intentional), but definitely not the ad hominum part. Especially the part about Reckoner not reading or. I am very serious when I say either Reckoner did not bother to follow the conversation, did not understand how my question was a result and part of that conversation, or that he deliberately took my question and tried to make it seem scummy. I am disappointed in myself that I came off as defensive. That means I did not do as good a job as I wanted. Basically, the explanation of my actions is intended to show how those actions are, at worst, neutral, and then use that to go on the counter-offensive to show how neutral or townie actions have been twisted to try and implicate that I am scum. I don't feel the need to mount a defense as I have done nothing scummy, so I did not think I was being defensive. The fact that so many people focused on that one question even and failed to follow how that question was logically a direct line from the conversation started by Mcavity's random vote really frustrates and confuses me. Yes, the question was sarcastic. Yes, it was humorous. Yes, it was intended to generate discussion. All three at once. The beauty of it is if it failed in its last part, so what! I am actually happy that it did generate discussion because, as I said, I find it much easier to pick out scummy acts directed at me and feel I can highlight and use those acts easier than otherwise.

Mod

I will be V/LA this weekend, starting tonight. I will actually have more access than I normally do on weekends, but will be gone on Friday as well.

[Kreriov]

Oh yeah, I totally agree with Starbuck about Jebus.

[Kreriov]

And hit submit before doing this...

Unvote

[bVote: ]Jebus[/b]

Sorry for the multi-posts

[Kreriov]

DAMMIT!

Vote: Jebus

[xRECKONERx]

Will read later today, hopefully, if I have time before Inglorius Basterds. I want to read Jebus in iso.

[Kreriov]

That is sort of the point. There is no Jebus to read in ISO!