California Trilogy: City of Angels - On Camera (Game Over)

[hewitt]

I, for one, am not so sure the youngun should be the one driving us. How about we follow someone who has been driving for more than two years? Although I suppose if she flips us we'll just be offered another bus. Locke why do you shirk responsibility so readily?

[hewitt]

So you say that following Valentine Wiggin will make the innocent stronger yet be your doom?

[hewitt]

The flower lives on as long as more petals do not die too.

[hewitt]

Valentine were you offered an ultimatum akin to Locke's?

[hewitt]

Apparently we're rushing this decision, no?

[hewitt]

Um, to everybody still standing outside...do we know where Locke or Valentine will even take us? Because if that tiger's heading towards L.A. I'm not so sure I want to be going there anymore.

[hewitt]

I'm wondering whether Locke losing his innocence really is the good choice here. Say we pick Valentine and the innocent get disastrous repercussions. Maybe it's pick the lesser evil.

[hewitt]

How interesting. The two advocates are voting to follow Valentine yet none of the rest of us are voting either way.

[hewitt]

Not at all. I'm saying the advocates had better give us more information if they want us to make the same decision as them.

[hewitt]

The choice is not obvious. There may be worse repercussions if Valentine drives, perhaps losing an innocent is the easier route, we don't know because neither of you seem to be telling us what will happen to us. It's apparently that either you don't know or you're not willing to tell us so I'm going to turn to Valentine and ask her.

Valentine- What are the repercussions or benefits to the innocents if you are to drive?

[hewitt]

Locke we all know that the guilty will lie to fulfill their evil deeds, so keep in mind that I don't take everything you say at face value. That is why I'm curious to hear what Valentine has to say first before making any sort of decision on who to follow. I am not too familiar with Mr. Grey's past adventures.

[hewitt]

Thank you Death, that is precisely what I was trying to say about repercussions. But apparently I've been cast a bit role.

[hewitt]

Valentine says that her alignment will not change no matter if she drives or not, I am just wondering if her alignment is innocent.

[hewitt]

Well I mean if both advocates are advocating for Valentine to drive...what else are we supposed to do than listen to them honestly. It's a little bit frustrating though to have such little information when it seems like information is being withheld.

[hewitt]

Alright well I'm going to...

Vote: Valentine drives

I mean honestly one of the advocates has to have the best interests of the innocents in mind and if they're both picking Valentine then obviously one of them is planning on screwing us over but the other hopefully knows what they're doing.

Tags removed. Only votes at the end of the post are counted. - Mod

[hewitt]

*whispers to Carrie*

Don't worry these are like my only lines.

[hewitt]

Hm I thought I read in the script that one of our advocates is innocent but apparently I'm just an awful reader, bad eyesight. Apparently my wish to see some good in our leaders can be wrong. I am not in a rush to finalize our decision though, I was simply voicing my opinion. I'll just sit back down.

[hewitt]

If Valentine has a personal result that he is not sharing then I do think he should tell, especially since you have told your personal result. There's no way we can make a complete, informed decision if we're not fully informed.

[hewitt]

It is useless to debate on whether both advocates are against us because if they are then quite frankly, we're screwed. I think there must be at least one we can trust and if they both agree on the same course of action hopefully the good consequences will outweigh the bad consequences.

[hewitt]

I believe that Locke would say the same thing if he is not innocent. It's a brilliant game he's playing either way, messing with all of our heads by insisting that he not drive.

[hewitt]

Locke don't even pretend like we should take everything you and Valentine say at face value. That would be incredibly naive on our parts. She may be or she may not be but I feel that one of you is. Who that advocate is though is impossibly to tell right now.

There is never only truth in these situations Locke.

[hewitt]

Again Locke, we would be idiotic to take everything you say at face value no matter how many times you insist that you are only being honest and truthful.

[hewitt]

...Locke who is the she you are referring to when you say she is saying you are playing mind games?

And Valentine the only piece of information you received is that if you drive you are the only person in jeopardy?

[hewitt]

Hm apparently I wasn't listening while she was speaking. I do think it's a good possibility that you're playing a mind game though. What I find curious is how you say you will be in jeopardy if you drive yet Valentine says that is the one who will be in jeopardy if she drives. It's curious that you would react to that by saying she drives but she reacts by saying that she drives as well.

[hewitt]

Oh goodness I have lines again...but I'm le tired...

Obviously we should chose either the Crone or the Mother and steer clear of the Maiden. For my personal safety I'd like to follow the Mother although I bet the Crone is the best choice.

[hewitt]

Jesus Tabris calm yourself times twenty. Basically you're saying that we shouldn't trust that we're being fed the correct information right?

[hewitt]

In case you've forgotten Tabris we all have equal billing so quit the dramatics and hogging the limelight if you plan on getting any sort of job after this.

Back to the important matter so what are you suggesting we pick the Crone? I can't understand you when you muddle your lines with unnecessary fluff.

[hewitt]

Death do you honestly think that I trust anybody? No. Such an idea is preposterous. I think for this round I shall go with whatever the majority believes is the best choice.

[hewitt]

I think I'm standing on the edge of a platform with a noose around my neck and some pushy people standing behind me. I think if I voice my opinion that I think we should follow the Mother because I trust the information that was given to us and I am wrong I will be the first to go. So for my own personal safety, I have reserved my opinion until now. I don't quite care about whether or not I'm a leader or a follower right now. The group decides that the Mother is the wrong one to follow then I shall follow the group.

[hewitt]

I still think I'm liking the Mother the best, reinforced by the fact that Tabris annoys the hell out of me and I don't understand whatever "logic" he's spewing out.

[hewitt]

^^^ ?!?!?!

Soooo that seemed like something we weren't supposed to see and frankly gives us quite a bit of information on what everybody Off-Stage wants to do apparently.

[hewitt]

Oh no no sorry I sort of wandered a little off set on accident and overheard some producers talking.

[hewitt]

Death I did have a similar dream last night as Tabris. All of the sudden I'm much more inclined to follow the Crone instead of the Mother.

[hewitt]

Um well I don't really know if I'm allowed to say why I believe the Crone is the correct choice. I'm just going to stand by it.

[hewitt]

I just remember before I had been not sure how easily those Winds had decided upon the right decision in one of my earlier Scene when I couldn't figure it out. So it makes me feel like I'm once again a little bit behind everybody else and those all-knowledgeable Winds know much more and that the Crone is the correct choice according to them.

[hewitt]

I dreamt of Carrie.

[hewitt]

Um, sir, I don't believe we've been given the okay to make a decision yet have we? If we haven't I kindly suggest everybody not to be silly and follow suit with voting for who they want to follow.

[hewitt]

I just wanted to make sure nobody blindly began piling on votes to go before others are ready.

[hewitt]

Vote: Crone

[hewitt]

This is not a sudden rush to the Crone it's been in the makes for quite a while and if you paid any attention at all to anything I've posted you'd notice that I never said anything about Odbody being scum now did I?

[hewitt]

Carrie Fisher magically popped in for a second on accident to share some words of wisdom before being whisked off stage is basically what happened. I heard what she said and so did a couple of other people.

[hewitt]

OH MY GOD did you read ANYTHING I have wrote in this forum before. I have most definitely explained that pretty clearly as to why I would trust those Off-Camera.

[hewitt]

I did pretty well in Math so I think I might be able to somewhat well on this.

[hewitt]

Okay sorry I've been away but the plan sounds good to me, whatever, sounds pretty straight-forward to me.

[hewitt]

Meaning I don't really see any flaws with the plan and I really don't care. I'm just going to do what everybody wants me to do, report back my answers then wait for the scene to be over.

[hewitt]

hewitt
VP Baltar
Talilan
Shadow Lurker
Mighty Orbots
Thok
Goofballs

[hewitt]

So yeah I'm just pretty much going to wait around for somebody to figure it out and then tell me what to do, sounds good?

[hewitt]

I don't care when or what I'm asking. Just tell me to do whatever and I'll do it. Preferably sooner than later but really...it's whatever.

[hewitt]

I'm not even going to pretend like I care or really read any of what you guys are saying until I'm told what to do. And yes, I am prolonging this post to make it over twenty-five words.

[hewitt]

Um I'm actually not okay with that if anybody were to be re-randomizing the numbers I prefer it'd be VP.

[hewitt]

I would rather the player I feel most pro-town controlling anything at all to do with this kind of stuff in this type of situation obviously.

[hewitt]

That's actually what I thought you might've meant but Orbots is just kind of one of those blah characters for me. Not somebody I'd trust to make the best decisions.

[hewitt]

Alright so it's my understanding that I'm now supposed to ask if {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 56} contain a very good. Is that correct?

[hewitt]

Yeah I got a no.

[hewitt]

Sweet, awesome so everybody thinks I'm likely to have lied. That's pretty cool I guess. Have fun rechecking my answers. Totally legit, I'm so over this.

[hewitt]

Whatever, Vote: 41

[hewitt]

I don't know if this was supposed to be bolded or not.

Vote: 41

[hewitt]

It isn't an act. I honestly couldn't give a flying fuck. I know you're going to keep attacking me cause I'm the easy target so I just...don't care lol.

[hewitt]

Pretty much just totally over this scene and Goofballs. I'm over this scene because it's just really obnoxious and I have like no doubt in my mind that one of the players who've been deemed pro-town most likely lied. I'm over Goofballs because they're just so fake it's ridiculous.

[hewitt]

I don't really care if that hurt or not. Fortunately I live in Chicago so I have a lot of practice with dealing with fake people and that response to my whatever was just so unnaturally forced and fake that it's sickening.

[hewitt]

Clearly now's the time to set apart the idiot scum from the rest of us. Dumbasses can take the road less traveled, the rest of us are rightfully taking the high road.

[hewitt]

Um I'm not really sure what to say here. I thought Goofballs was scum and that doesn't really matter anymore because I was right. I would go with my other gut instinct and say that Talilan is scum and I'm probably right again.

[hewitt]

I have a long-standing case on hewitt. He refused to vote KY Krew even though he said he would, instead staying on Panzer. Later, after calling for Pooky's lynch time and again, he softened his tone (from "scum" to "wildcard") and when presented the opportunity to wagon Pooky instead hammered Gaspar. His only interaction with GaB was to answer questions and act irritated. And I invite you all to find him mention Thok anywhere.

What. Are. You. Smoking. First off, great misrepresentation of my conduct regarding the KY lynch. Go reread that day and then come back and restate my actions that day. That was fucking despicable MO. In regards to Pooky I made it quite clear that I wanted Pooky lynched for quite a while. But nobody seemed to think that was a good idea and I was pretty much largely ignored for a Gaspar lynch. I didn't like Gaspar and I was quite okay with his lynch so I hammered. I disliked Goofballs play a lot and I'm pretty sure I called him out quite a bit. I have no thoughts on Thok, he's like the most anonymous player in this game to me.

Great, great misrepresenting there.

Also, if we were scum we would have fired CKD way, way sooner. There were plenty of reasons we could've given for doing so, and no-one would've thought anything of it

List those reasons.

I was also trying to figure out the likelihood of SL being made the advocate. I thought the scum might do this so he couldn't stunt someone offstage to be lynched. If SL was made advocate and bumped onstage, Hewitt would have been left offstage.

There were a lot off possibilities to think about

It really should not have been that complicated. Your "overthinking" is crap and a great way to talk yourself out of looking like scum. Definitely. Not. Working. And I'm sick of the WIFOM in all your posts regarding why it doesn't make sense that you'd be scum with the others. OF COURSE YOU WOULD SAY THAT IF YOU ARE SCUM.

Somewhat - curiouskarmadog claimed to get advocate information with plenty of detailed information as to what might have happened if one choice was made over the other (not just which choice is good, but specifically the consequences of such an action). Panzerjager claimed to have

no

information as to the consequences of the choice, only that he should drive. This struck me as incredibly odd and unlikely - on a binary choice, it seemed as though they would be told what the best course of action would be, it's the detailing of the consequences in one PM and not the other that puzzled me. At the time, it seemed to me that curiouskarmadog was telling the truth, and that Panzerjager was scum, and that Panzerjager was surprised that ckd came forth as he did rather than try to join the scum, and was a bit flabbergasted when asked his role information. When the whole "everyone thinks Panzerjager/zu_Faul is the AP and won't touch him with a 10-foot pole" bit went down, I started to re-evaluate this, and pondered that ckd might be the odd man out on this (I think another player has mentioned the same - hewitt?). When all the info roles ended up on screen in one day, I started thinking it was the work of an evil director, and it led me to the ckd-lynch-push.

I 100% agree with this logic and I think it would be silly for anybody to overlook the fact that this was strange as hell.

Before we do anything else, hewitt do you counter?

Clearly, no.

before we do anything else, hewitt are you playing this game?

Still in the game.

There was nothing obvtown about Panzer or zu_Faul. We still need to know if hewitt will counter. This is extremely important.

I agree that there definitely was NOT anything obv-town about Panzer AT ALL especially considering the first scene antics.

Add lurking to the hewitt case.

Incorrect kid. Lurking would include me actually reading the game while it happened. Haven't even been on the site in days.

Hewitt's vote on Panzer is very interesting because KY Krew does not even appear in his Condorcet AT ALL, and yet after KY flips scum hewitt says "I obviously agree with the KY Krew lynch so yeah that was good." (iso 14).

Again with this not reading my posts thing. Kind of tired of it.

And if VP is scum I think we're all fucked.

Vote: Talilan

StarKiss, Mighty Orbots, Thesp, VP Baltar, zu_Faul, No Lynch, hewitt

[hewitt]

Also, I'm not liking hewitt's last post.

It'd be great if you could actually expand on something for once and provide some real detailed opinions.

[hewitt]

So basically you're saying the players who made the "better" decisions are the ones who are town? That's a surefire way to screw us over and lose the game. Hope that works out great for you.

[hewitt]

Since you're around hewitt, how do you suggest the town approaches finding the scum? Do you think decisions in scenes should matter? If not, what criteria can one go by to find scum?

The problem with the decisions in the scenes is that clearly the scum are not going to make a negative impact on the game every chance they get because they know that other players are going to make mistakes. No matter who the scum is, they're going to manipulative that and use that to their advantage. It's almost the most unreliable resource we have in this game because the scum most likely voted for the good outcome knowing that it'll make them look good.

Also, the decisions of confirmed towns and scums are all right there in the original lists I posted. I just didn't compile then together. IIRC, DGB had a voting record similar (or better) than yours Starkiss and Hewitt. She at least bussed KY Krew.

You're halfway proving my point. As an uninformed player it's much more difficult for non-scum to be making the correct decisions. All the scum players have really had to do this game is non-vehemently disagree with the bad decisions being made and they look good out of it. The scum knocked off Goofballs and Thok meaning that the most pro-town scum are in this Endgame. Look at their records, they're not half-bad. Most likely, the scum remaining have even better records than they did.

[hewitt]

This is interesting. If you're going to lynch me and Starkiss lynch me first so I can sit back and watch/laugh at the rest of this game.

[hewitt]

If town wins this game, you deserve all the credit for your amazing insights and helpfulness. But then again, I'm betting you're not town.

I don't think town is going to win anyway so it doesn't matter that you "think I'm not town". You've all been doing a great job covering your bases to make it look like it won't be your fault when I flip town and if Starkiss flips town. So I'm going to congratulation the scum early, nice job.

[hewitt]

Pouting and AtE doesn't get sympathy from me. Let's get this lynch on and deal with your buddy Starkiss tomorrow.

Not pouting at all. I'm telling you if the plan is to lynch me and Starkiss lynch me first.

[hewitt]

So rather than contribute anything if you're town and prevent a mislynch, your solution is to roll over so you laugh about it.

Sounds like pouting to me.

You really think at this point I'm not going to be lynched?

[hewitt]

I hadn't planned on commenting like this because I wanted this game to fuck with my meta but I'm so shocked by the thick-headedness in this game that I think I have to.

Basically I don't think any of you are playing this game intelligently at this point and the town is going to lose anyway. Since I know you, VP, have at least been around for a long time I think you should know better than the most seemingly anti-town players are scum. Especially in a game like this, where town are left even more in the dark than normal and scum have even more knowledge of what's going on. The scum have clearly been rallying up for a while to get two quick lynches on me and Starkiss and end the game with a win and the rest of the town has been weak enough to follow their lead. The WIFOM are fucking retarded and I think that's clearly the scum's strategy to get these two lynches in and out.

Now who those two players are is definitely a tough call. I think Talilan is most definitely one of them, I think they've been manipulating and lying through their teeth since D1 to get here. I'm guessing right now that Mighty Orbots is the second, although it very well could be VP. If VP is scum the town has automatically lost, you're not going to win because you will never lynch him. Players in this game are an extraordinary example of flock mentality, the buddying up is ridiculous. Clearly the scum are going to try to buddy up with the town players because they know that's how they're going to win this game.

The VP, MO, Talilan, and Thesp pact-like behavior is going to be your downfall. Your four have the majority and you're going to steamroll the town to a loss. That's why there's no point in my arguing for my survival, you four will not vote for each other. And it's so stupid because at least one of you four is scum and I honestly think that two of the four are scum. And how do I know that? Because I'm for sure town and I believe that zu_Faul is telling the truth on his claim. That leaves you four and Starkiss. And the likelihood of Starkiss being picked by scum to go to Endgame is zip no matter how hard you try to twist it otherwise.

Congrats VP, MO, Talilan, Thesp. At least two of you have won this game.

[hewitt]

I don't disagree that there is a chance of one of MO, Talilan and Thesp being scum. It probably is so, but your reasons for thinking Starkiss absolutely being town are pretty awful.

I've already explained that the scum didn't really have a choice in who was put into endgame if Talilan was town, which I am partially inclined to believe. If anyone is scum out of the other group, it's probably Thesp, though he has had some very townie actions in this game as well.

Also, if you think this game suffers from "flock mentality", then how do you explain your horrendous voting record throughout the game hewitt? You're telling me that you arrived at all of those incorrect decisions via independent thought?

I don't care that you think my reasons for thinking Starkiss being town is pretty awful because any scum player would say that in order to discredit my opinion. The scum have done a pretty great job of discrediting anything Starkiss and myself say in Endgame, ensuring that we will be lynched no matter what.

I also don't care that you say the one most likely to be scum is Thesp, because I disagree. Your opinion means nothing to me because I don't trust anything you have to say at this point.

The reason why I voted horribly this whole game is mainly because after the first scene I decided to listen to everybody else and not think for myself. That was part of my personal strategy but now I'm just tired of it and I'm tired of watching this game being strong-armed.

[hewitt]

Well, no problem then. I'm happy to oblige you with a lynch if those are the best arguments you can muster.

They're not arguments. They're facts.

Lynch me.

[hewitt]

I am really quite angry at Hewitt if he is town after the game. I mean, he would be the SECOND town player, who says "yeah, lynch me" this game. This behaviour is totally ridiculous. It is an INSULT to me, who replaced into this game, read up so much stuff, only to lose, because two players decided that this game was no fun to them (or whatever else).

No I've given up because I know we're going to lose anyway. Which sucks for me and you but I'm pretty much over it already, almost. Where's your question? I honestly can't find it.

[hewitt]

Are we even sure that the whole system that was set up with the numbers was even correct in the first place. Because I'm still skeptical that was even going to work.

[hewitt]

I do wonder if StarKiss is a better first lynch than Hewitt. The way CKD's lynch went down made me wonder about a StarKiss/Thesp link. I don't want to be suckered by Hewitt if he's trying to play us though. Has anyone played with him before and is he normally so negative

If you think I'm suckering you then clearly you should be voting for me. Why the change of heart all the sudden? Why Starkiss and not me? What has Starkiss done that is so overwhelmingly more anti-town than me? Do I not have the most anti-town voting record? Isn't that what you were basing this whole thing off anyway?

[hewitt]

No I think the scum sent the two players who they knew would be able to control the town the best. This whole game has been about control and power, two things that DGB and Thok had none of. The two scum players are inside Talilan, MO, VP, and Thesp.

[hewitt]

That doesn't matter anymore. We're not in a scenario where we're blindly picking to either push the button or not push the button. We're back to regular Mafia and neither DGB or Thok would be able to control the town's decision making like you four, that's a fact. I don't see your point about Talilan being town, I don't think there's any possible way Talilan is town so I don't give a fuck. Logic is out the door at this point, no one cares about logic otherwise we wouldn't be in this position to begin with. I know that I've at least thought this out logically and I know that I'm correct and at least two other players know that I'm correct and they're going to fight against it. So don't tell me to stop being emotional because you, right now, are a very significant contributing factor in the town loss.

[hewitt]

If you're scum VP then you're doing exactly what you set out to do prior to this scene and I have to give you props for it. The whole point of the scum in this scene was to beat down Starkiss and myself so badly that there's absolutely no chance that we will not be lynched. And now, you've done it. So congrats if you're scum, if you're not, then you're the reason why we've lost.

[hewitt]

Don't wait up for it.

[hewitt]

Well this most certainly is going to be a tricky, tricky day. In my mind I basically have a 2/3 chance of hitting scum with my vote. The decision is going to really rely on which player I think is most likely to be town. My gut is telling me that Mighty Orbots is the most likely to be scum, his vote on Talilan yesterday was VERY weird in my opinion. I was actually surprised that Talilan was lynched in the first place, I probably should've realized that he wasn't scum when his lynch was met with little resistance. It was just plain bizarre.

[hewitt]

The info is not really something I'm considered about. It actually seems to me to be more of a distraction technique than anything else but I'm okay with it. It most likely will not be factoring into my decision making today.

[hewitt]

Actor Name: Ron Howard

Alignment: Innocent

Flavor Text: You've come a long way from Opie to Richie to awards. You have a feeling this will be a role of a lifetime, or a role of your life. One of those.

Secret Word: November.

Win Condition: Same

[hewitt]

He refused to participate yesterday simply because the lynch was possibly coming his way at one point.

Uh are you kidding me? I'm the ONLY one who voted Talilan for an actual, sound reasoning. The rest of you bozos hopped onto the opportunistic wagon and did basically nothing but babble stupidly the whole day. So I deserve a thank you for building and actually having a case on Talilan that the rest of you can just be like "oh yeah okay he's innocent so why not".

[hewitt]

i really hated this game. i was soooo pissed off because i was 100% sure that MO and either VP/Thesp were the scumteam and i was like this is never going to happen we're going to lose for sure. so at some point i was like okay the scumteam has to be MO/VP because VP is failing to see logic in not lynching me here and i know him to be logical so there's no chance we're going to win with that team, they controlled everything.

little did i know VP was innocent too so my incorrect assumption in the scumteam led to me pretty much falling out of this game and giving up. i'm shocked starkiss was scum, that really surprised me.

[hewitt]

knowing now that starkiss was scum i wish we had gotten lynched one-two.

[hewitt]

Can I point out a lurker hunt would've netted us 3/5 of the scum (Thok, Pooky, StarKiss)?

Also, a lot of townies.

yeah i definitely would've been dunzo a lot sooner lol.