California Trilogy: City of Angels - On Camera (Game Over)

[Talilan]

StarKiss/Kise,

The post that you linked seemed awfully rhetorical to me now and back then too. When I figured out that you actually expected a reply, I replied. (As I pointed out to you already) my post was about as clear and unambiguous as it is possible to be!

Your second point (that if I have a clear belief about someone being scum I should try and get them lynched) is a better point. You got put on the backburner for a few reasons...
- you started posting more (which was half the point of my "scum, scum, scum" post... to try and force you to engage in the game)
- as you posted more, I started to entertain the possibility you were town (and I said so)
- you were not onstage and could not be the onstage liar
- I didn't expect you (if scum) to be picked to go to endgame

I still think you're more likely scum than not.

~Tal

[VP Baltar]

VP, can you think off the top of your head any game(s) we've played where you were mafia?

Off the top of my head the only one I can think of is Stef's One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest, but that got mod-abandoned before it really got going...so probably not very useful. I want to say there was another, but I'd have to look at my wiki.

This is interesting. If you're going to lynch me and Starkiss lynch me first so I can sit back and watch/laugh at the rest of this game.

If town wins this game, you deserve all the credit for your amazing insights and helpfulness. But then again, I'm betting you're not town.

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

4 to lynch.

StarKiss: 1 (Thesp)
Talilan: 1 (hewitt)

Not Voting: 5 (Mighty Orbots, StarKiss, Talilan, VP Baltar, zu_Faul)

Current Condorcet Winner:

None. Current Smith Set: hewitt, StarKiss

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put the following information into this form.

1,hewitt
2,Mighty Orbots
3,StarKiss
4,Talilan
5,Thesp
6,VP Baltar
7,zu_Faul
8,No Lynch

1:4>3>2>5>6>7>8>1
1:1=3=4=5=6=7=8>2
1:1=2=4=5=6=7=8>3
1:1=2=3=5=6=7=8>4
1:3>1=2>4=6>8>5=7
1:1>3>5>4>2>8>6=7
1:1=2=3=4=5=6=8>7

[hewitt]

If town wins this game, you deserve all the credit for your amazing insights and helpfulness. But then again, I'm betting you're not town.

I don't think town is going to win anyway so it doesn't matter that you "think I'm not town". You've all been doing a great job covering your bases to make it look like it won't be your fault when I flip town and if Starkiss flips town. So I'm going to congratulation the scum early, nice job.

[VP Baltar]

Pouting and AtE doesn't get sympathy from me. Let's get this lynch on and deal with your buddy Starkiss tomorrow.

Vote: hewitt

, Starkiss, Thesp, Talilan, Mighty Orbots, No Lynch, [zu faul, VP Baltar]

[hewitt]

Pouting and AtE doesn't get sympathy from me. Let's get this lynch on and deal with your buddy Starkiss tomorrow.

Not pouting at all. I'm telling you if the plan is to lynch me and Starkiss lynch me first.

[VP Baltar]

So rather than contribute anything if you're town and prevent a mislynch, your solution is to roll over so you laugh about it.

Sounds like pouting to me.

[Mighty Orbots]

This is interesting. If you're going to lynch me and Starkiss lynch me first so I can sit back and watch/laugh at the rest of this game.

Sigh.

vote: hewitt

[hewitt]

So rather than contribute anything if you're town and prevent a mislynch, your solution is to roll over so you laugh about it.

Sounds like pouting to me.

You really think at this point I'm not going to be lynched?

[VP Baltar]

Well I'm certainly not going to save you. If you believe you're being wrongly lynched, the onus is on you to prove why. If you're town, you're not doing any favors to your team like this.

If you think your lynch is inevitable, the least you can do is get info and thoughts out there that would be helpful to town after you are dead. You've been on site long enough and I really shouldn't have to tell you these kinds of things.

[hewitt]

I hadn't planned on commenting like this because I wanted this game to fuck with my meta but I'm so shocked by the thick-headedness in this game that I think I have to.

Basically I don't think any of you are playing this game intelligently at this point and the town is going to lose anyway. Since I know you, VP, have at least been around for a long time I think you should know better than the most seemingly anti-town players are scum. Especially in a game like this, where town are left even more in the dark than normal and scum have even more knowledge of what's going on. The scum have clearly been rallying up for a while to get two quick lynches on me and Starkiss and end the game with a win and the rest of the town has been weak enough to follow their lead. The WIFOM are fucking retarded and I think that's clearly the scum's strategy to get these two lynches in and out.

Now who those two players are is definitely a tough call. I think Talilan is most definitely one of them, I think they've been manipulating and lying through their teeth since D1 to get here. I'm guessing right now that Mighty Orbots is the second, although it very well could be VP. If VP is scum the town has automatically lost, you're not going to win because you will never lynch him. Players in this game are an extraordinary example of flock mentality, the buddying up is ridiculous. Clearly the scum are going to try to buddy up with the town players because they know that's how they're going to win this game.

The VP, MO, Talilan, and Thesp pact-like behavior is going to be your downfall. Your four have the majority and you're going to steamroll the town to a loss. That's why there's no point in my arguing for my survival, you four will not vote for each other. And it's so stupid because at least one of you four is scum and I honestly think that two of the four are scum. And how do I know that? Because I'm for sure town and I believe that zu_Faul is telling the truth on his claim. That leaves you four and Starkiss. And the likelihood of Starkiss being picked by scum to go to Endgame is zip no matter how hard you try to twist it otherwise.

Congrats VP, MO, Talilan, Thesp. At least two of you have won this game.

[VP Baltar]

I don't disagree that there is a chance of one of MO, Talilan and Thesp being scum. It probably is so, but your reasons for thinking Starkiss absolutely being town are pretty awful.

I've already explained that the scum didn't really have a choice in who was put into endgame if Talilan was town, which I am partially inclined to believe. If anyone is scum out of the other group, it's probably Thesp, though he has had some very townie actions in this game as well.

Also, if you think this game suffers from "flock mentality", then how do you explain your horrendous voting record throughout the game hewitt? You're telling me that you arrived at all of those incorrect decisions via independent thought?

[hewitt]

I don't disagree that there is a chance of one of MO, Talilan and Thesp being scum. It probably is so, but your reasons for thinking Starkiss absolutely being town are pretty awful.

I've already explained that the scum didn't really have a choice in who was put into endgame if Talilan was town, which I am partially inclined to believe. If anyone is scum out of the other group, it's probably Thesp, though he has had some very townie actions in this game as well.

Also, if you think this game suffers from "flock mentality", then how do you explain your horrendous voting record throughout the game hewitt? You're telling me that you arrived at all of those incorrect decisions via independent thought?

I don't care that you think my reasons for thinking Starkiss being town is pretty awful because any scum player would say that in order to discredit my opinion. The scum have done a pretty great job of discrediting anything Starkiss and myself say in Endgame, ensuring that we will be lynched no matter what.

I also don't care that you say the one most likely to be scum is Thesp, because I disagree. Your opinion means nothing to me because I don't trust anything you have to say at this point.

The reason why I voted horribly this whole game is mainly because after the first scene I decided to listen to everybody else and not think for myself. That was part of my personal strategy but now I'm just tired of it and I'm tired of watching this game being strong-armed.

[VP Baltar]

Well, no problem then. I'm happy to oblige you with a lynch if those are the best arguments you can muster.

[hewitt]

Well, no problem then. I'm happy to oblige you with a lynch if those are the best arguments you can muster.

They're not arguments. They're facts.

Lynch me.

[zu_Faul]

This is interesting. If you're going to lynch me and Starkiss lynch me first so I can sit back and watch/laugh at the rest of this game.

At least answer my question.

Also, my hand hurts like *'?%& so I can't type much.

Also, Baltar, StarKiss answer my questions. What is it with you guys not answering?

I am really quite angry at Hewitt if he is town after the game. I mean, he would be the SECOND town player, who says "yeah, lynch me" this game. This behaviour is totally ridiculous. It is an INSULT to me, who replaced into this game, read up so much stuff, only to lose, because two players decided that this game was no fun to them (or whatever else).

[zu_Faul]

This is my opinion at this point:

Vote: StarKiss, VP Baltar, Mighty Orbots, Hewitt, Talilan, Thesp, No lynch, zu_Faul.

[hewitt]

I am really quite angry at Hewitt if he is town after the game. I mean, he would be the SECOND town player, who says "yeah, lynch me" this game. This behaviour is totally ridiculous. It is an INSULT to me, who replaced into this game, read up so much stuff, only to lose, because two players decided that this game was no fun to them (or whatever else).

No I've given up because I know we're going to lose anyway. Which sucks for me and you but I'm pretty much over it already, almost. Where's your question? I honestly can't find it.

[VP Baltar]

Also, Baltar, StarKiss answer my questions. What is it with you guys not answering?

I thought I answered whatever I missed. Can you please requote it for me.

[zu_Faul]

hewitt, why did you make so many abysmal choices? [...]
Mighty Orbots, again the question, why did you just reask hewitt's question than validating number 41?

VP Baltar, why did you suggest Mighty Orbots do so?

StarKiss, give us a good reason not to lynch you (hint: tell us about someone else who is scummier).

It is possible I overlooked an answer, so please just redirect me.

[zu_Faul]

I found Hewitt's answer it was on this page.

[VP Baltar]

Here was my reply, zu:

Read the thread for the context, but it wouldn't have made a difference, imo. Even if MO had asked if 41 was very good and got a no, what would that have changed? We would have been guessing anyhow because it was one or both of Thok and DGB who lied in that scene. It would have been a complete shot in the dark either way and we wouldn't have had any better of a chance to get a Very Good with another guess.

Unfortunately, I didn't push hard enough to reask DGB's question when that thought occurred to me. I'm guessing she was the one who lied there, so if MO had asked hers again we would have at least had a slightly better chance of guessing correctly.

Sorry it wasn't very clearly marked. I would also add that my secondary concern in that scene was catching a liar if we had one. Simply asking if 41 was very good would not have given us any indication of who had lied. By reasking hewitt's question we determined 1) that 41 was not Very Good and 2) that hewitt did not lie about his question. That's why reasking it was the optimal play.

[hewitt]

Are we even sure that the whole system that was set up with the numbers was even correct in the first place. Because I'm still skeptical that was even going to work.

[VP Baltar]

Well, it did make sense to me. Obviously we know now that SL's randomization was truly accurate and not a scum-ploy. That means that it is statistically very likely that there was at least 1 Very Good in the numbers that were asked about.

DGB and Thok likely got lucky in that series and the Very Goods landed in their sets, thus enabling them to lie to us about it and keep us in the dark.

[StarKiss]

{Kise}

Thursday, zu. I want to look at everyone (except you) and then assess which 2 are likely scum. Until then, maybe dram can answer your question if he's kept up with things.

@Talilan - This may have been gone over (I haven't read the last page.5) but you said you were thinking SL would stunt with me, correct? Wouldn't that mean I'd be put off-camera with Thok and DAB, both of whom you were also suspicious of? Why want three people you think are scum off-camera?

NOTE: I could have misread something but this is what I think your mindset was during last scene, as you explained it this phase.

Also, I will check your response(s) Thursday as well. Just popping in for now.