/in-Vitational Game 5, Simon Mafia 2: Game Over before 832

[Lord Gurgi]

Immune to what?

a role that can pick up color/movement

[LlamaFluff]

Immune to what?

a role that can pick up color/movement

This still doesnt mean that exposing where the town is to the scum will in some way trap scum or protect town that I can see.

[TDC]

I can cite reasons that I think that each of you are scummy individually, so its not based off the conversation that I think one of you has to be scum. Its more off the conversation that I think that you cant be scum together. In absence of the conversation I would have each of you down as scum.

So basically both of us are sooo scummy that it

pains

you that one of must be town (and still plays

this

badly) and that's why the other is still scum if one turns up town?

So you are saying that you have never had a game where player A and B are both scummy, but you dont think they work together?

Not that I remember, barring setup constraints.
I remember once claiming that of two townies, exactly one had to be scum. But I was scum myself in that game. It might be that this makes more sceptic of your opinion than I should be.
Point is, I understand why you think we are not scum together. I don't understand how you could be sure enough of either of our scumminess to set up chain lynches on us, while still thinking one of us is town, though.

Its part of that you were active and actually keeping up with the game, but still never commented on anything past speculation that was really bothering me.

Yes, that's my point. In terms of your suspicion, it would be better for me to post very sporadically. I disagree that that'd be the better course of action, though. Arguably, if a suboptimal course of action lessens your suspicion, something's off.

Kind of yeah. If you are going to bring up the other lurker arguement thing though, Zazie (although very recently) and Elmo both have done something along the lines of commenting on the DDD, or at least expressing some opinions on alignments at this point.

Elmo hasn't commented on the DDD wagon at all.
Zazie has "explained" her random vote on DDD, which is hardly a comment either.

I'm not even sure what you mean with DDD wagon, seeing how he has just one vote, the aforementioned RVS vote by Zazie.[/quote]

page 16, so who is scummy?

How about from now on, I just assume you end each post with that question, and I'll answer it when I have an answer? Would save precious keystrokes for both of us.

[Lord Gurgi]

Immune to what?

a role that can pick up color/movement

This still doesnt mean that exposing where the town is to the scum will in some way trap scum or protect town that I can see.

Why do you think it's alright to say my idea is terrible because a role might be around, but it's not alright for me to rebutt with another role?

[LlamaFluff]

I can cite reasons that I think that each of you are scummy individually, so its not based off the conversation that I think one of you has to be scum. Its more off the conversation that I think that you cant be scum together. In absence of the conversation I would have each of you down as scum.

So basically both of us are sooo scummy that it

pains

you that one of must be town (and still plays

this

badly) and that's why the other is still scum if one turns up town?

So you are saying that you have never had a game where player A and B are both scummy, but you dont think they work together?

Not that I remember, barring setup constraints.
I remember once claiming that of two townies, exactly one had to be scum. But I was scum myself in that game. It might be that this makes more sceptic of your opinion than I should be.
Point is, I understand why you think we are not scum together. I don't understand how you could be sure enough of either of our scumminess to set up chain lynches on us, while still thinking one of us is town, though.

Maybe im overselling this a bit then. You two are my one two suspects at this point. If I had to day vig next post, it would be one of you. If one of you flipped town, I would follow up pushing the next player, but im not going to blindly push them, or would do an immediate day kill, or anything like that.

I get the feeling that im failing to explain this right, but if I have a 1, 2 that dont work together and I find one to be town, im going to persue my other pick.

Yes, that's my point. In terms of your suspicion, it would be better for me to post very sporadically. I disagree that that'd be the better course of action, though. Arguably, if a suboptimal course of action lessens your suspicion, something's off.

Kind of yeah. If you are going to bring up the other lurker arguement thing though, Zazie (although very recently) and Elmo both have done something along the lines of commenting on the DDD, or at least expressing some opinions on alignments at this point.

Elmo hasn't commented on the DDD wagon at all.
Zazie has "explained" her random vote on DDD, which is hardly a comment either.

I'm not even sure what you mean with DDD wagon, seeing how he has just one vote, the aforementioned RVS vote by Zazie.

Elmo mentioned him a little in his iso-4 seeming to give DDD a slight town read through my interpetation. Zazie has done less, just talking about reasoning behind the random vote which im hoping gets followed up fairly soon.

The DDD wagon was the early random wagon we had, it no longer is really existant at this point in the game, although I thought he still had two votes.

[TDC]

I get the feeling that im failing to explain this right, but if I have a 1, 2 that dont work together and I find one to be town, im going to persue my other pick.

I got this impression that you want to chain lynch us, by how you explicitly mentioned I would be scum if Gurgi came up town.
Surely if I'd be just your next person to look at, there's no reason why you'd put me into the list of people incriminated by Gurgi flipping town.

The DDD wagon was the early random wagon we had, it no longer is really existant at this point in the game, although I thought he still had two votes

You mean the wagon that rolled because he had no spaces in his name? I really don't see how anything about that wagon was worth mentioning. And I think I even said something similar back then.

[LlamaFluff]

Immune to what?

a role that can pick up color/movement

This still doesnt mean that exposing where the town is to the scum will in some way trap scum or protect town that I can see.

Why do you think it's alright to say my idea is terrible because a role might be around, but it's not alright for me to rebutt with another role?

What role?

Lets say town has this magic role that lets them see what floor someone is on. We massclaim color, scum risks getting caught, scum knows who can and cant be killed. I would be willing to take that risk as scum, and probably just claim my real color.

If such roles do exist that stand a small chance of nailing fakecolorclaiming scum, I still think it fails in comparison to scum knowing exactly who is off limits, and who they can take a shot at.

[LlamaFluff]

I get the feeling that im failing to explain this right, but if I have a 1, 2 that dont work together and I find one to be town, im going to persue my other pick.

I got this impression that you want to chain lynch us, by how you explicitly mentioned I would be scum if Gurgi came up town.
Surely if I'd be just your next person to look at, there's no reason why you'd put me into the list of people incriminated by Gurgi flipping town.

That was there as a "The flip would not change my inital read on you" statement.

The DDD wagon was the early random wagon we had, it no longer is really existant at this point in the game, although I thought he still had two votes

You mean the wagon that rolled because he had no spaces in his name? I really don't see how anything about that wagon was worth mentioning. And I think I even said something similar back then.

The reaction of Batt to it was something that came from it that I thought was kind of interesting. A random wagon in its own terms is not worth much, but a vote and two FoSs of players on the wagon certaintly is to me.

(see that I avoided teh question too)

[TDC]

What would Gurgi coming up town tell you?

You scum, spy is slight scum, DDD is slight scum, Fl gets more town points. LG town is harder to make connections on though as compared to...

That was there as a "The flip would not change my inital read on you" statement.

Meh, doesn't really look that way.

The reaction of Batt to it was something that came from it that I thought was kind of interesting.

I guess we find different kind of things interesting.
In retrospect, the post in question is absurdly verbose (especially compared to his other posts), considering it only says the DDD wagon has no substance (duh).

(see that I avoided teh question too)

Come again?

[Lord Gurgi]

Immune to what?

a role that can pick up color/movement

This still doesnt mean that exposing where the town is to the scum will in some way trap scum or protect town that I can see.

Why do you think it's alright to say my idea is terrible because a role might be around, but it's not alright for me to rebutt with another role?

What role?

Lets say town has this magic role that lets them see what floor someone is on. We massclaim color, scum risks getting caught, scum knows who can and cant be killed. I would be willing to take that risk as scum, and probably just claim my real color.

If such roles do exist that stand a small chance of nailing fakecolorclaiming scum, I still think it fails in comparison to scum knowing exactly who is off limits, and who they can take a shot at.

..And then I said, what if there's a role that's immune to this, not to mention that the checker might be locked down, or the checkee might.

[LlamaFluff]

(see that I avoided teh question too)

Come again?

You know... the question

Immune to what?

a role that can pick up color/movement

This still doesnt mean that exposing where the town is to the scum will in some way trap scum or protect town that I can see.

Why do you think it's alright to say my idea is terrible because a role might be around, but it's not alright for me to rebutt with another role?

What role?

Lets say town has this magic role that lets them see what floor someone is on. We massclaim color, scum risks getting caught, scum knows who can and cant be killed. I would be willing to take that risk as scum, and probably just claim my real color.

If such roles do exist that stand a small chance of nailing fakecolorclaiming scum, I still think it fails in comparison to scum knowing exactly who is off limits, and who they can take a shot at.

..And then I said, what if there's a role that's immune to this, not to mention that the checker might be locked down, or the checkee might.

I still say a color claim will hurt the town in almost every concievable situation. The lockdown situations above actually show more scenarios that any benifit of a color claim goes away.

[Goatrevolt]

I'm basically just glazing over the walls on this page. The one thing I really want to know is how TDC feels about Llama.

In terms of color claiming, an early claim would have helped us. I doubt scum are going to lie if pushed into color claiming on like page 5. At this point, though, they can lie about being on green, and invalidate, or at best throw serious doubt on any conclusions we would have been able to draw from NKs.

Right now, I don't think a color claim helps us for that fact, but it was definitely the play early on. Locking people into claims is more beneficial than random chances of stopping kills if lucky.

[Patrick]

Gurgi, what leads you to having a town read on TDC? Also, can you please link to your two most recent completed games as scum? Ta.

Regarding the colour claiming discussion, I'll give it another read tomorrow because my eyes have started glazing over, but I didn't see anything particularly bad about how Gurgi suggested and justified it. I think the advantages of colour claiming are that our power roles know who to target so that they won't fail, and that FL if she's town doesn't risk failing to move someone to green floor by targetting someone who's already on green. I think these are outweighed by the advantage of possibly making scum fail a kill at the moment, because in the current parity scum failing a kill amounts to an extra lynch for us. I don't think the suggestion to colour claim is so outrageous that it warrants suspicion though. Is there something scummier about Gurgi suggesting a sub-optimal strategy than Nuwen suggesting a sub-optimal strategy?

[TDC]

I'm basically just glazing over the walls on this page. The one thing I really want to know is how TDC feels about Llama.

Frustration seems genuine. Tunnelling on me - only Patrick has voiced slight support of my wagon, nobody else seems interested, yet he's sitting on me since my second post in the game.
Gut says town.

[Goatrevolt]

LlamaFluff, what do you think of Zazie?

[Lord Gurgi]

I dunno. He was the first person to ask why I was doing what I was doing. Everyone else was chummy enough to let me do what I wanted. After he first started asking, LF, Batt, and friends decided it was scummy. That and TDC listened to what I was saying. Practically everyone else is having the one argument with me twice or more.

Umm, I don't keep track of my games very well, or at all. As far as I know that's Monty Python and Lover Mafia. You might want to read You are what you eat instead, since I was an SK who faked a PR and never got a kill off. At the same time, You are what you eat was my first game after my hiatus and I was terrible. Unless you count Marathon games, in which case it was the Battle in Heaven game. Someone else might know better than I do. (Sad, I know)

Monty Python
You are what you eat
Lover's Mafia

[LlamaFluff]

LlamaFluff, what do you think of Zazie?

Kind of an acceptable deadline lynch, but I have problems with lynching zazie due to lurking. The two times I have gone after him for it he was town, although I dont think I have ever seen zazie-scum.

Practically everyone else is having the one argument with me twice or more.

Sorry for that. I tend to get a better handle on what is going on if im in a conversation with someone then if I read it as it happens, or even worse if I read it later.

[Lord Gurgi]

No worries.

[Battousai]

The reaction of Batt to it was something that came from it that I thought was kind of interesting.

I guess we find different kind of things interesting.
In retrospect, the post in question is absurdly verbose (especially compared to his other posts), considering it only says the DDD wagon has no substance (duh).

The DDD wagon had a reason behind it, and it wasn't random. That is why I took issue of it, as I still do. The reason for the wagon wasn't, he has spaces in his name. It was lurker-scum. Lurker-scum, because the guy hadn't posted his first post in, IIRC, 2 days.



LG: In Lover's mafia, you played a decent scum game. If it wasn't for your partner, I might have not voted for scum.

[Lord Gurgi]

Erm, what makes you say that now?

[SpyreX]

... Wait, what reason, really, was there behind it. My spaces joke?

Because I'm pretty sure the first time you chimed in with it was before anything even beginning to be real reasons happened.

[Battousai]

It was with LF. I considered his vote to be the first real vote on the wagon and every vote after that. With LF, he voted that DDD, in post 28, that DDD is still Lurker scum. I considered that to mean his random vote had just became serious.


LG: What point was that question addressed to?

[SpyreX]

Hmmm, ok.

However, during all of that you never mentioned me. I know I was random to start but even when that vote turned normal for a mo not even a peep.

When I voted for you not really a peep either.

What makes me so cool?

[Battousai]

Your vote was from the RVS, so I ignored it. I was focusing on the other voters at the time. And as for your vote on me, I don't feel any pressure and if you were looking to get my lynched, you would have given reasons. So, I felt the vote was pointless.

[SpyreX]

So a pointless vote warrants NO response?