/in-Vitational Game 5, Simon Mafia 2: Game Over before 832

[Mr. Flay]

We have rung Elmo's room with an 88 decibel wake-up call. --The Management

Official Day One Vote Count #14

3 - ZazieR (Goatrevolt, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Lord Gurgi)
2 - Lord Gurgi (Battousai, Nuwen)
2 - Battousai (Elmo, SpyreX)
1 - LlamaFluff (forbiddanlight)
1 - Debonair Danny DiPietro (ZazieR)
1 - TDC (LlamaFluff)
1 - Elmo (Patrick)

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch and

4

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is September 1, 10:00 pm CDT.

Not Voting – 1 - TDC

---

LOCK COUNT

9 - Green (TDC, LlamaFluff, SpyreX, forbiddanlight, Battousai, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Nuwen, Goatrevolt, Lord Gurgi)
0 - Blue
0 - Red
0 - Yellow

Not Locking – 3 – Elmo, Patrick, ZazieR

At nightfall, the floor to be locked is: GREEN

.

[Lord Gurgi]

When you explained your vote, it was all old stuff. I mostly just wanted other people to be aware.

Goat: If you could explain why this question matters at all, that'd be fantastic. Anyway, based on the knowledge that I did before, I think the answer is yes.

[SpyreX]

Well thats fine. I dont think I ever presented it as anything NEW - it just exacerbated what was already there.

[Goatrevolt]

I didn't have a specific answer I was looking for when I asked that question. I simply wanted to understand how much the deadline factored into your pressure on zazie. Was it the sole reason you pressured him? Was he a suspect of yours and the looming deadline was simply the final straw that pushed you into action?

It matters because it's important to understand why people do the things they do. Having that information makes it easier to evaluate if people are consistent or inconsistent in their play when you measure them up later in the game.

[Lord Gurgi]

Fun time question that Patrick probably should ask: Why are we lynching ZazieR and not Elmo?

[LlamaFluff]

Is there something scummier about Gurgi suggesting a sub-optimal strategy than Nuwen suggesting a sub-optimal strategy?

To me its that Nuwens idea has a chance at working, albiet a long shot (we would need good accuraccy), it can work in the end. I just dont think it has a great shot of doing so. While chances of it working are directly dependent on our ability to scumhunt, or moreso FLs ability, there is no 'horrible downside' to it. We basically are playing a JK and targeting who we think is scum and not town. If we lynch scum, it might even be an optimal move. I do not think its the best move, but its not a bad one.

I actually see Nuwens (and others) subtle pushing against FL as scummier then the suggestion of moving scummy players to green.

LGs I just see as much more of a detrement to the town, since scum know the complete setup. They dont know who can be killed at night, if we had a color claim, they now know exactly where everyone is and can plan moves accordingly.

Fun time question that Patrick probably should ask: Why are we lynching ZazieR and not Elmo?

I would actually go for an Elmo lynch before a Zazie lynch at deadline. I have had multiple bad experiences lynching zazie for being a lurker, although I can not remember a game with him where he was scum. I can point to two games where he did disappear (but not get replaced) though as town.

[TDC]

Also, to add spice to the pot - if Zaz IS scum I'd put Batt on higher than baseline to be a partner.

How so?

I'd prefer if Zazie was replaced, but that's kind of not going to happen if he keeps leaving a "hai. will post more tomorrow. promise"-post

just

often enough..

I guess as far as lurker lynches are concerned, Elmo is fine, too.

Note: Will be V/LA over the weekend.

[forbiddanlight]

I would actually go for an Elmo lynch before a Zazie lynch at deadline. I have had multiple bad experiences lynching zazie for being a lurker, although I can not remember a game with him where he was scum. I can point to two games where he did disappear (but not get replaced) though as town.

I lean this way as well, oddly enough...consider it's coming from LF :S...hmm...

Well...either way, I will settle for an Elmo lynch over Zazie.

[Patrick]

Fun time question that Patrick probably should ask: Why are we lynching ZazieR and not Elmo?

Maybe you could talk about this as well, as a Zazier voter. Do you have a preference between the two?

[Goatrevolt]

I would actually go for an Elmo lynch before a Zazie lynch at deadline. I have had multiple bad experiences lynching zazie for being a lurker, although I can not remember a game with him where he was scum. I can point to two games where he did disappear (but not get replaced) though as town.

My experience is him doing it as scum. I don't think him disappearing is a tell, since collectively we've seen him do it as both alignments, but if he's been posting elsewhere but not here, then that is a definite tell. I caught him doing it that one night, but I don't know if that's been a trend or a 1-time deal.

In terms of Elmo v. Zazie, they are scummy for two different reasons. Zazie has been directly scummy (exaggerated reasons for voting DDD, shady mannerisms around that wagon) whereas Elmo has been indirectly scummy (lack of meaningful opinions, weak stance on DDD).

My preference is definitely Zazie, because his actions are something actively scummy whereas Elmo's are passively scummy (aka, could be explained by him not closely following the game) but I would not shed tears if Elmo was lynched.

I will say this much. If either of you are town, do us a favor and get replaced (or genuinely stop lurking). Seriously. If you know you're not going to actually play the game, get out now and let someone who will get in. Responding to prods but then following it up with doing nothing is destructive.

[Elmo]

I'm back, but I still don't have any meaningful opinions - I'm halfway through rereading now. Feel free to ask me questions, or so? I'm still struggling to find anything interesting, that's the problem. (I don't think my stance on DDD was bad, although maybe I didn't express it well because it was late.)

[LlamaFluff]

(I don't think my stance on DDD was bad, although maybe I didn't express it well because it was late.)

Can you express it better now then?

[Lord Gurgi]

Fun time question that Patrick probably should ask: Why are we lynching ZazieR and not Elmo?

Maybe you could talk about this as well, as a Zazier voter. Do you have a preference between the two?

ZazieR had more votes. I don't like to lynch Elmo as a general thing.

[Patrick]

First can be a valid reason close to deadline but doesn't say anything about scumminess. The second needs explaining. I will throttle you if you tell me you don't want to lynch someone on day 1 because they're a good player.

[Lord Gurgi]

I don't want to lynch Elmo on day one because he tends to be helpful as either alignment. As far as I can tell, ZazieR doesn't.

[Elmo]

@LF: Well, generally if a scumbag's getting wagoned, their buddies tend to try and start a wagon on someone else, especially early on when wagons don't need much to get started, but no-one really seemed interested in trying. (My reasoning here is kinda like JDodge's in Open 55.) But for example, if Zaz and Danny happen to be scum (with 3 scum total), the single leftover mafioso isn't going to have much influence on the voting patterns. So the more it looks like no-one would be wagoning regardless of alignment, the harder it is (or less reliable) to tell why scum aren't wagoning.

..I think this makes sense.

[forbiddanlight]

I'm back, but I still don't have any meaningful opinions - I'm halfway through rereading now. Feel free to ask me questions, or so? I'm still struggling to find anything interesting, that's the problem. (I don't think my stance on DDD was bad, although maybe I didn't express it well because it was late.)

Translation: I'm back, but I have no stance since I already know who all the townies are and I can't find anyone doing something scummy enough to frame

Unvote, vote Elmo

ZazieR had more votes.

First can be a valid reason close to deadline but doesn't say anything about scumminess.

Not as valid this game. We need four votes on a player for a deadline lynch. This is HALF of a majority. It's not preferable to a majority lynch, but as far as deadline lynches go, it's far less a leg to stand on if you don't believe in the lynch.

I don't want to lynch Elmo on day one because he tends to be helpful as either alignment. As far as I can tell, ZazieR doesn't.

Data?

[Elmo]

Translation: I'm back, but I have no stance since I already know who all the townies are and I can't find anyone doing something scummy enough to frame

If you've

just stated

that no-one's doing anything scummy enough for me to decently attack them if I was scum, why do you think I'd act differently as town?

Well, let's get it over with.

unvote, vote ZazieR

for not being me. Bed, now.

[Patrick]

So do you consider it inevitable that either you or Zazier will be lynched at this point? Or do you find him scummy? I don't understand that vote at all.

[forbiddanlight]

If you've just stated that no-one's doing anything scummy enough for me to decently attack them if I was scum, why do you think I'd act differently as town?

It's a parody of your supposed point of view. Perhaps it wasn't well phrased, but the idea is I don't buy you are actually scumhunting, since obviously other players have found cases.

[Battousai]

Goatrevolt: For the same reason I downgraded my vote on LF to a FOS. There is reasonable doubt into whether or not it was intentional.

[Lord Gurgi]

Data is me playing with him in Tofu, while people in this game have already attested to ZazieR.

[forbiddanlight]

Data is me playing with him in Tofu, while people in this game have already attested to ZazieR.

And he was both alignments in Tofu, hence being helpful as either alignment?

[Patrick]

He's certainly helpful to have around if he's town, though that's a bad reason not to lynch someone. How is he helpful to have around if scum?

[Goatrevolt]

@LF: Well, generally if a scumbag's getting wagoned, their buddies tend to try and start a wagon on someone else, especially early on when wagons don't need much to get started, but no-one really seemed interested in trying. (My reasoning here is kinda like JDodge's in Open 55.) But for example, if Zaz and Danny happen to be scum (with 3 scum total), the single leftover mafioso isn't going to have much influence on the voting patterns. So the more it looks like no-one would be wagoning regardless of alignment, the harder it is (or less reliable) to tell why scum aren't wagoning.

..I think this makes sense.

This is a lot of words but not much is actually said. First you say the lack of a counterwagon suggests DDD is town, but then you say it could be because the scum don't have much influence on voting patterns. That's a long way of saying "they could be scum or town."

I want to know what you personally think about DDD and Zazie.