/in-Vitational Game 5, Simon Mafia 2: Game Over before 832

[Lord Gurgi]

Most players are helpful as both alignments.

[forbiddanlight]

Most players are helpful as both alignments.

So we shouldn't lynch anyone, eh?

Zazie, needs to be replaced. But to be lynched because he's basically a lurker is what you appear to be proposing.

[Lord Gurgi]

Unhelpful lurker. I think if he were going to be replaced, he would have by now.

[forbiddanlight]

Unhelpful lurker. I think if he were going to be replaced, he would have by now.

So, you'd prefer to lynch someone who probably has a chance at being town (Oh, probably something like 9/12 assuming three scum), over someone who is demonstrably scummy?

[Lord Gurgi]

Elmo has done less scummy than ZazieR.

[forbiddanlight]

Elmo has done less scummy than ZazieR.

I disagree. What has ZazieR done that's scummy beyond the RIDICULOUS lurking I've known him to do in other games regardless of alignment?

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm back, but I still don't have any meaningful opinions - I'm halfway through rereading now. Feel free to ask me questions, or so? I'm still struggling to find anything interesting, that's the problem. (I don't think my stance on DDD was bad, although maybe I didn't express it well because it was late.)

Translation: I'm back, but I have no stance since I already know who all the townies are and I can't find anyone doing something scummy enough to frame

Unvote, vote Elmo

Admitting he has nothing is not the same as what you took it to mean. I prefer his presence to ZazieR's empty promises of the same.

[forbiddanlight]

Admitting he has nothing is not the same as what you took it to mean. I prefer his presence to ZazieR's empty promises of the same.

So why is it pretty much every other player besides him and Zaz has something?

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm not sure how that is supposed to convince me that Elmo is a more sensible lynch than ZazieR.

[forbiddanlight]

I'm not sure how that is supposed to convince me that Elmo is a more sensible lynch than ZazieR.

I'm not sure why you think Zazie is a better lynch in the first place, despite all evidence otherwise. Me and Partrick have made our cases. If you choose to ignore them, and turn a blind eye to Elmo's scumminess, so be it.

[Lord Gurgi]

I just don't see how what you point out that is definitively scummy doesn't apply to ZazieR. The rest is flimsy conjecture.

[forbiddanlight]

I just don't see how what you point out that is definitively scummy doesn't apply to ZazieR. The rest is flimsy conjecture.

The thing is, we don't have enough data from Zazie. I'd prefer he be replaced, because from what I'm reading it's his active lurking you are lynching him for. A.K.A, a passive tell versus Elmo's active tells.

[Lord Gurgi]

Active Lurking isn't active? It's an active choice, at very least.

[SpyreX]

Active Lurking is one of THE biggest tells, IMO.

Ultimately it has an unprecedented benefit for scum versus town.

As an aside: I'm going to be ultra-pissed if we don't get an actual majority lynch. Seriously angry. As in if someone is awesome enough to not help push a real wagon as we get close or, god forbid, not be voting I will vote for them every day I'm alive.

I know I'm not convincing anyone on Batt. I'd prefer Zaz to Elmo as of right now.

[Goatrevolt]

I just don't see how what you point out that is definitively scummy doesn't apply to ZazieR. The rest is flimsy conjecture.

The thing is, we don't have enough data from Zazie. I'd prefer he be replaced, because from what I'm reading it's his active lurking you are lynching him for. A.K.A, a passive tell versus Elmo's active tells.

It's entirely the opposite of this. Zazie's push on DDD was actively scummy. Elmo's lack of meaningful contribution is passively scummy.

What do you think of my reasons for finding Zazie scummy?

Active Lurking is one of THE biggest tells, IMO.

It depends on how you define it. Active lurking defined as "following along with the thread but not posting" is a huge tell. Active lurking defined as "posting every 3 days but not saying anything and not keeping up with the thread" is less scummy.

As an aside: I'm going to be ultra-pissed if we don't get an actual majority lynch. Seriously angry. As in if someone is awesome enough to not help push a real wagon as we get close or, god forbid, not be voting I will vote for them every day I'm alive.

I don't understand why this matters. Is there a huge difference between a lynch wagon of 4 votes, and a lynch wagon of 7 votes where the last 3 votes are just people piling on for the purpose of achieving a lynch?

[forbiddanlight]

Active Lurking isn't active? It's an active choice, at very least.

Nyeh...with Zaz it's different. I'm playing a meta card I can't fully explain.

As an aside: I'm going to be ultra-pissed if we don't get an actual majority lynch. Seriously angry. As in if someone is awesome enough to not help push a real wagon as we get close or, god forbid, not be voting I will vote for them every day I'm alive.

Fine! I'll vote Zaz if he gets close to lynch, but I'm pretty sure he's not scum.

It's entirely the opposite of this. Zazie's push on DDD was actively scummy. Elmo's lack of meaningful contribution is passively scummy.

What do you think of my reasons for finding Zazie scummy?

show me again?

It depends on how you define it. Active lurking defined as "following along with the thread but not posting" is a huge tell. Active lurking defined as "posting every 3 days but not saying anything and not keeping up with the thread" is less scummy.

This is true, though Zaz has been implying he's kept up...

[petroleumjelly]

Official Day One Vote Count #15

4 - ZazieR (Goatrevolt, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Lord Gurgi, Elmo)
2 - Elmo (Patrick, forbiddanlight)
2 - Lord Gurgi (Battousai, Nuwen)
1 - Battousai (SpyreX)
1 - Debonair Danny DiPietro (ZazieR)
1 - TDC (LlamaFluff)

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch and

4

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is September 1, 10:00 pm CDT.

Not Voting – 1 – TDC

---

LOCK COUNT

9 - Green (TDC, LlamaFluff, SpyreX, forbiddanlight, Battousai, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Nuwen, Goatrevolt, Lord Gurgi)
0 - Blue
0 - Red
0 - Yellow

Not Locking – 3 – Elmo, Patrick, ZazieR

At nightfall, the floor to be locked is: GREEN

.

[LlamaFluff]

As an aside: I'm going to be ultra-pissed if we don't get an actual majority lynch. Seriously angry. As in if someone is awesome enough to not help push a real wagon as we get close or, god forbid, not be voting I will vote for them every day I'm alive.

I don't understand why this matters. Is there a huge difference between a lynch wagon of 4 votes, and a lynch wagon of 7 votes where the last 3 votes are just people piling on for the purpose of achieving a lynch?

Really? I can think of a few reasons why actually getting a majority lynch, even in face of a deadline, is better then one that just is forced at deadline.

On that note

unvote
Vote Elmo

I dont expect to have much if any access untill sometime monday, and I know deadline is eminent so am going to do this now. Should be able to get something in today at work explaining my choice, but no promises.

[Battousai]

So, it appears we are going to lynch an inactive. Since no one else is willing to lynch any of my top 2 suspects, or answer the question I posted to everyone... twice (I'll ask again at the beginning of the day tomorrow then), I'll vote for one of the inactives so my vote will count.

Unvote
Vote: Elmo

I think two wagons that are close together can provide us with information on how people decide to vote.

[Elmo]

So do you consider it inevitable that either you or Zazier will be lynched at this point?

Very probably, yes. (at

forbiddanlight

also:) I don't currently think anyone else has a worthwhile case, so votes go on whichever bandwagon is popular. I think the current vote count justifies that opinion.

Pop quiz: If there really are mad awesome "this person is scum" cases out there, why is "omg lurker lynch" getting this amount of traction? The Battousai and Gurgi wagons had absolutely nothing behind them. This is basically a semi-random lynch, which (given the lack of info) is the logical move; I just think anyone seriously claiming I'm scummy is daft.

That's a long way of saying "they could be scum or town." I want to know what you personally think about DDD and Zazie.

I was pointing out something specific so that other people could comment on it, so I don't see anything wrong with the fact it doesn't come to a definite conclusion on his alignment. Rereading Danny, I guess his frustration with LF looks genuine. His dislike of ZazieR is unfounded beyond lurking. Done not a lot else; I'd lean town, but shruggo. On Zazie, there's nothing to look at beyond the random stage, which I didn't get anything out of. I thought the Danny vote was fine. Null.

[forbiddanlight]

Pop quiz: If there really are mad awesome "this person is scum" cases out there, why is "omg lurker lynch" getting this amount of traction?

If you read, both me and Patrick are far above "OMG Lurker lynch" regarding you. Lurking is part of it, but it's also your manifest unhelpfulness when you have posted, which is more unusual for you than Zazie

In fact, I'd go as far to say you've done IIoA in the biggest post you made.

[Patrick]

The wagons on Battousai and Gurgi weren't unfounded. You can disagree with the reasons (as I do), but they were reasons given. If what you're saying is that the reasons are/were entirely bad, surely that leads to an opinion?

This is basically a semi-random lynch, which (given the lack of info) is the logical move; I just think anyone seriously claiming I'm scummy is daft.

So do something. I think your complete failure to look for scum is scummy, and in my arrogance claim that I'm not daft either. If you're town I think I'm infinitely more likely to get a better read on you if you contribute normally rather than trying to downplay almost all the content in this game as useless. If the majority of people can get reads, then you certainly can.

[Patrick]

On an unrelated note, Nuwen's posting is too stop-start for my liking. DDD is probably due a prod too.

Mod

: Please prod Nuwen and DDD. And Zazier, as usual.

[Elmo]

forbiddanlight: The only game we've ever been in together, I was

hugely

unhelpful. You have given absolutely no reason why I'm unlikely to act this way as town, merely pointed out that I would as scum. ("Elmo would breathe as scum, Elmo is breathing, therefore Elmo is scum".)

Patrick: Unfounded means based on poor reasons. That is an opinion on the wagon, but it doesn't tell me anything about the alignments of the people involved. I don't consider that a useful opinion, and I'd probably be attacked more for IIoA if I posted it. (shrug)

What exactly characterises my "complete failure to look for scum"?

If the majority of people can get reads, then you certainly can.

Why? That's a pretty bizarre statement.

[petroleumjelly]

Debonair Danny DiPietro, Nuwen, and ZazieR have been prodded.