Newbie 817 (Game over!)

[hiphop]

Plus, he seems unwilling to claim. I read this as either he's got a non-vanilla town role, or he's mafia- can someone tell me whether this is normally correct, or if I'm wrong, how this is wrong? I think the reason we want you to claim now, rather than just before the lynch, as you say you'd prefer to do, is that if your claim comes out as true, then

we

have time to choose someone else to lynch.

This is where you learn to lash out at two people at the same time instead of tuneling on only one, because I will not claim until it gets closer. I know what will happen if I claimed now, so I won't. Just pick two people who scummy individually and attack both. It isn't that hard.

Secondly, who is this we business. You are an individual. You don't need other people to decide for you. Make your own reasoning.

@startransmission how? Here we were arguing together and you never convinced me on one point. You make one post on the person who I thought was town, and I am enlightened.
For that

Fos:Starbuck

I am not entirely convinced, but she moved up on my scummy list.

Why couldn't you have done that earlier?

You guys work in Portland? Is that what they do there? I am working 56 hrs this week, but I still make a post every day.

By the way did you just put your loaction in.

for linking a post, I believe it is blah

[Starbuck]

@Startransmission

1. Starbuck is scum. Her main candidate clearly fell through; with time running out the hiphop wagon was sputtering. Three votes quickly stack against another viable candidate. She has (as had virtually everybody else) already brought up her issues with Mae, so a vote would have precedent in argument. Soon (within an hour) after the third vote comes in she strikes, putting Mae at L-1 and avoiding being the hammer. This part is important, she doesn't wait too long for somebody else to grab the L-2 spot, she nabs it quite quickly. Nothing left to do now but hope that either VRK or hiphop takes the bait. Either way it's a win, either her primary candidate for a lynch is stuck with the hammer, or the IC is.

That's quite an accusation to make. I had two candidates that I thought were scummy, and Mae had enough time to post a quick thought but never give us any type of analysis. I voted for her because on Day 1, a lynch is better than no lynch, and therefore we can garner information. Hiphop placed that hammer rather quickly, even after Mae said she was town. I wanted more information out of Mae, and she wouldn't give any, which is why I did not remove my vote from her.

I'd like to jump to Petunhos excellent post 269.

Petunho's post 269

Sorry I quoted the whole thing, I'm actually not sure how to link a post. The point is that Petunho lays out very well why Starbucks vote change is questionable. Petunho actually first asks Starbuck about this vote change in post 258. Starbuck responds,

@Petunho - If you go back in my posts, you will see that my second suspicion was of Mae. Her active lurking (coming in enough just to post something small and then leave again) had me feeling that she was in fact scum. Hiphop did not leave my radar and I said that as well. His hammer of her, especially after his contradictions that I found at the top of this post, are extremely scummy in my eyes.

Which is a reasonable response. But like I said earlier in my debate with hiphop, everyone can say that they were suspicious of Mae before her wagon took off.

If you look at my post 147, I did an iso analysis of Maemuki and listed quite a few reasons why she was scummy well before I placed my vote on her. So yes, I did say that I was suspicious of Mae before her wagon took off.

You also seem to be piggybacking quite a bit off of Petunho and it's noted.

Petunho isn't satisfied though, and that's where 269 comes in. A post I obviously really like. A response from Starbuck would've been great, but instead...

As for yesterday's lynch, it was quite obvious when it was coming down to the wire that hiphop wasn't going to be lynched. 2 more people would have to vote for hiphop and the only candidates were startransmission, Maemuki, iamausername, PEtunho, and Vel-Rahn Koon (keep in mind this was before Starbuck changed the vote). VRK obviously wasn't going to be on. Startransmission had already said he thought Maemuki was more scummy than hiphop as had you. Even if Maemuki had voted for hiphop, there wouldn't have been enough votes on him to lynch. And Starbuck already said that she found Maemuki suspicious.

It's obvious that a lynch on someone suspicious is better than no lynch and that's why Starbuck changed her vote from #1 to #2.

FoS: Petunho

Immediately dismisses Petunhos logic, which I feel is sound, and strongly defends Starbucks vote. Also reminds everybody that Starbuck never liked Mae in the first place, making her vote a natural switch. Then puts an FOS on Petunho... for what? For questioning Starbuck?

While I really don't understand Crazy's FOS on Petunho because I get a town read from him, he is right with the fact that I was suspicious of Mae well before her train and I linked the post above.

In 275 Petunho expresses his frustration at Crazy answering for Starbuck. @ Petunho... do you mind pointing out other instances? You say it's not the first time...

I am actually curious of this as well and would like Petunho to answer this.

[Starbuck]

Plus, he seems unwilling to claim. I read this as either he's got a non-vanilla town role, or he's mafia- can someone tell me whether this is normally correct, or if I'm wrong, how this is wrong? I think the reason we want you to claim now, rather than just before the lynch, as you say you'd prefer to do, is that if your claim comes out as true, then

we

have time to choose someone else to lynch.

This is where you learn to lash out at two people at the same time instead of tuneling on only one, because I will not claim until it gets closer. I know what will happen if I claimed now, so I won't. Just pick two people who scummy individually and attack both. It isn't that hard.

I'm rather bothered by the above statement. You were at L-1 and were very close to being lynched, but you didn't claim. And now you just plain ol' refuse, I don't like this.

I think he did find someone who's scummy, and I don't like that you brush off his suspicions of you here.

Secondly, who is this we business. You are an individual. You don't need other people to decide for you. Make your own reasoning.

Bouched obviously meant the town with his statement of

I think the reason we want you to claim now, rather than just before the lynch, as you say you'd prefer to do, is that if your claim comes out as true, then we have time to choose someone else to lynch.

And he's absolutely right. Why do you brush this off so easily?

@startransmission how? Here we were arguing together and you never convinced me on one point. You make one post on the person who I thought was town, and I am enlightened.
For that
Fos:Starbuck I am not entirely convinced, but she moved up on my scummy list.

Why couldn't you have done that earlier?

I don't like this at all. Not because you are FOS'ing me, but because you clearly state no reasons of your own.

[Petunho]

@ Petunho... do you mind pointing out other instances? You say it's not the first time...

Crazy answered for Bouche in the first page and VRK adviced with this:

By answering for someone, you're taking away information about that person that would have appeared when they answered the question. Let people answer questions for themselves so that we get the clues as to alignment that we need to win this game. It also makes it look like you're potentially feeding a partner information so they don't screw up and get caught.

And even after this he still answered for Starbuck...

___________________________________________

@ Petunho:

Your only piece against me is that I was lurking at the end of yesterday and the beginning of today. Either find something else or get off the horse, because I've given a perfectly viable, and TRUE, explanation for the lurking.

My other case against you was that you did good job not to discuss anything about Starbuck who I feel is very scummy. I counted ONE "Starbuck" on the first day in your posts.

iama, I'd like to know what you think of Maemuki, jeromus, bouched and

Starbuck

.

That's what I call avoiding.

Also Starbuck mentioned only THREE times your name:

Did you not read the history that

VRK

has provided or even looked him up yourself?

As

VRK

said, if someone posts something that isn't well thought out, it gives us more information to work with.

Just like Vel brought up earlier about the game he signed up for in December, he doesn't seem to care.

Not very insightful analyzes you two from each other or would you argue with me?

I saw you as very potential scumbuddies after I noticed Starbuck's actions in the end of the day.

You have got more active and you have also started discussing on Starbuck more. Not are not on top of my list anymore.

My case against Starbuck still stands and I should have changed my vote earlier.

Vote: Starbuck

[hiphop]

Hiphop placed that hammer rather quickly, even after Mae said she was town.

Rather quickly? We had ten minutes left. I most certainly was not going to wait any longer. I don’t know about you, but ten minutes is cutting it quite close as it is.

I'm rather bothered by the above statement. You were at L-1 and were very close to being lynched, but you didn't claim. And now you just plain ol' refuse, I don't like this.

“plain ol' refuse” if that is what you want to call it. I am not at L-1 anymore am I? I will claim when the deadline gets closer. I am not going to be lynched now anyways, because I doubt anyone wants to end the day with only a couple real days info on day 2.

I think he did find someone who's scummy, and I don't like that you brush off his suspicions of you here.

I have a right to defend myself anyway I deem fit.

Bouched obviously meant the town with his statement of

Bouch obviously meant he will latch onto somebody else’s logic and put new dressing on it.

I don't like this at all. Not because you are FOS'ing me, but because you clearly state no reasons of your own.

Maybe because it was right after I read startranmission post and I had not really looked into your posts before.

Here we come to an interesting dilemma. If I vote for you, which I haven’t yet, will you claim?

[Starbuck]

I'll definitely claim if I hit L-1, unlike yourself who did not.

[Elmo]

Day 2, Vote Count #2

hiphop (2) <- Starbuck, Vel-Rahn Koon
Starbuck (2) <- startransmission, Petunho
startransmission <- hiphop

Not voting: bouchedufou, crazypianist1116.

The

deadline

is Monday 7th September, 22:00 UTC, which is 11 days, 1 hour and 6 minutes from this post. If deadline hits, there will be No Lynch.
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

[crazypianist1116]

ATTN: I will be V/LA from Saturday until Thursday or Friday

Visiting colleges.

[startransmission]

Secondly, who is this we business. You are an individual. You don't need other people to decide for you.

Mmm, yes. You seemed to feel otherwise in post 232.

@startransmission how? Here we were arguing together and you never convinced me on one point. You make one post on the person who I thought was town, and I am enlightened.
For that

Fos:Starbuck

I am not entirely convinced, but she moved up on my scummy list.

Why couldn't you have done that earlier?

What am I supposed to convince you about? If you're town then there's nothing for me to convince you about, the same is true if you're scum. If you mean convincing you about my innocence... well, sorry I couldn't do it. I explained what you found scummy, if you have further questions please ask. I really don't spend a lot of thought on defending myself from OMGUS votes.

You guys work in Portland? Is that what they do there? I am working 56 hrs this week, but I still make a post every day.

By the way did you just put your loaction in.

Location has been there. We should grab a drink once the game is over!

That's quite an accusation to make. I had two candidates that I thought were scummy, and Mae had enough time to post a quick thought but never give us any type of analysis. I voted for her because on Day 1, a lynch is better than no lynch, and therefore we can garner information. Hiphop placed that hammer rather quickly, even after Mae said she was town. I wanted more information out of Mae, and she wouldn't give any, which is why I did not remove my vote from her.

I know it's a big accusation. I've spent the last week going over what I found scummy with hiphop, and as you are the other Mae voter that has me suspicious, I felt it worthwhile to put down what I felt was scummy about you. One of you two is scum, or I'm the biggest boob ever... which it quite possible. So I went over what the possible motivations would be depending on which of you was scum. I went into that post not expecting to have the floodgates open, and when I was done I found that you being scum just made more sense.

Your response is good, but my vote will stick for the time being. We have time, and my vote could well go back to hiphop. I just need to follow through on my nagging suspicions, and let others weigh in as well.

As far as me piggybacking, I disagree. I know I quoted Petunho and praise one of his posts, but that's only because it's a post that lined up perfectly with what's been on my mental backburner for a while. The fact is he never voted for you, and after crazypianist shot him down in 270 he didn't pursue that line of questioning. But note it all you want.

[Petunho]

FYI:

I got my hands on mobile Internet, so I'm probably able to post more often during next week also. The cottage is quite deserted but let's see how it goes.
_________________

I got interested on Crazy. Why do you like to defend Starbuck so much? Starbuck has been active so I cannot see reason for you rushing to save her.

First we got this when iama asked how do you feel about Starbuck.

Starbuck's a good player. Her points are all valid and I don't see any reason to suspect her.

Can scumbuddy say it any clearer?
-----------

Bouchedufou - I agree with post 123 except for the FoS on Starbuck. It just seemed a bit unwarranted.

Then you questioned Bouch's FOS from 123, which was warranted

at the time

because Starbuck was really defending hiphop and if he would have flipped scum Starbuck would have lot of accusations to answer.
-----------

No Lynch is basically a bad idea.

As for yesterday's lynch, it was quite obvious when it was coming down to the wire that hiphop wasn't going to be lynched.

Why didn't you change your vote if you knew that hiphop wasn't going to be lynched?

It's obvious that a lynch on someone suspicious is better than no lynch and that's why Starbuck changed her vote from #1 to #2.

After when did you have the ability to know what Starbuck was thinking?

Hmmm...

Ah, yes! During the night when you two had the chance to discuss what had happened and what to do next.

I agree with Start.

FOS Crazy

as Starbuck's scumbuddy.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Sorry guys, I had to go to Florida unexpectedly. My dad's going into the hospital for surgery. I'm going to have limited access until I get back to VA on Tuesday and will only be able to do Modding stuff at night.

Vel

[hiphop]

Crazy have you ever been scum before?

vote:Starbuck

[crazypianist1116]

Crazy have you ever been scum before?

vote:Starbuck

No; see my wiki. Why do you ask? I'm guessing you're voting Starbuck for the reasons above.

I got interested on Crazy. Why do you like to defend Starbuck so much? Starbuck has been active so I cannot see reason for you rushing to save her.

First we got this when iama asked how do you feel about Starbuck.

Starbuck's a good player. Her points are all valid and I don't see any reason to suspect her.

Can scumbuddy say it any clearer?

IIRC, that post was relatively early in the game and I really didn't have any reason to suspect Starbuck. Feel free to give some evidence of her scuminess before that post was made. May I also note that similarly friendly quotes were made in your post 204.

Bouchedufou - I agree with post 123 except for the FoS on Starbuck. It just seemed a bit unwarranted.

Then you questioned Bouch's FOS from 123, which was warranted

at the time

because Starbuck was really defending hiphop and if he would have flipped scum Starbuck would have lot of accusations to answer.

Bouched FoS'd Starbuck because of post 118. Can you point out to me where Starbuck defended hiphop in that post? I at least felt that Starbuck was attacking bouched rather than defending hiphop.

No Lynch is basically a bad idea.

As for yesterday's lynch, it was quite obvious when it was coming down to the wire that hiphop wasn't going to be lynched.

Why didn't you change your vote if you knew that hiphop wasn't going to be lynched?

I didn't post a single time between that first vote of Maemuki that you made and the time the hammer fell. I wasn't able to.

It's obvious that a lynch on someone suspicious is better than no lynch and that's why Starbuck changed her vote from #1 to #2.

After when did you have the ability to know what Starbuck was thinking?

Hmmm...

Ah, yes! During the night when you two had the chance to discuss what had happened and what to do next.

I agree with Start.

FOS Crazy

as Starbuck's scumbuddy.

I said that because that's common sense in F11 Day 1. I assumed that was what Starbuck was thinking. Forgive me if I'm wrong.

@all: how do you feel about hiphop's recent arguments? Is he swaying you towards him being town? If not, who do you see as a possible partner? If so, who do you feel we should concentrate on next? We have 13 days left.

I'd like to hear from crazy as well, and bouched. I know bouched is going to be back this week. I doubt Petunho is going to get a post of substance in before the deadline.

I don't see a partner for hiphop, to be honest. Everyone came out against him today.

Bleghhh hiphop, what can I say. If I had more time, I would go back and read his posts again. But now I must sleep. Hopefully I'll write more when I get to Michigan.

If not, V/LA till Thursday.

[Starbuck]

Now that I am at L-1, I claim town.

[hiphop]

No; see my wiki. Why do you ask? I'm guessing you're voting Starbuck for the reasons above.

Didn't know how to view your wiki till just now.

Now that I am at L-1, I claim town.

Is that all I have to do? I thought I had to claim roles as well. Ok, if it is that simple, I claim town as well.

[Starbuck]

So you had to wait for me to claim, in order for you to do so?

[hiphop]

technically, I already claimed town in post 288. I said I was not scum. Which in this game means I am town, because there are no neutral roles. Like I said I thought when someone asked me to claim, I thought claiming meant role claiming, which I still won't do until it gets closer to lynch day.

In fact now that I think about it claiming town is stupid. Of course people are going to claim town, so why ask them to claim?

[bouchedufou]

Yeah, starbuck, what do you mean by claiming town? Vanilla town, or just that you're on the town side? Because claiming you're on the town's side is absolutely useless.

All the same, I still think she might be town. I have some reasons as to why, but I'd prefer to see what Starbuck says to defend herself before I give them.

Petunho's speculation that VRK and Starbuck are working together because they don't mention each other seems to be going slightly overboard. I mean, I haven't really mentioned crazy and crazy has even defended me at the beginning. Same with me and Petunho or Startran. A bit clutching at straws. Petunho, you yourself haven't said much against Startran, nor he against you. Are you two scum?

However, what Startran pointed out about Crazy does strike me as a valid point. Why did Crazy FoS Petunho? Petunho really doesn't seem very suspicious to me, and your FoS at him whilst defending Starbuck seems like you're trying to move suspicions away from Starbuck. Mind giving us some reason behind the FoS?

And finally, I'm going to continue to ride the horse on Hiphop. I don't like how on day 1 somehow everything just suddenly went from him to Maemuki. Although notice how Maemuki didn't vote? Which is kinda strange.

[Starbuck]

technically, I already claimed town in post 288. I said I was not scum. Which in this game means I am town, because there are no neutral roles. Like I said I thought when someone asked me to claim, I thought claiming meant role claiming, which I still won't do until it gets closer to lynch day.

In fact now that I think about it claiming town is stupid. Of course people are going to claim town, so why ask them to claim?

Everybody is going to say that they are not scum.

If I was the doctor or cop, I would have said doctor or cop. I'm just a plain Vanilla townie.

[startransmission]

technically, I already claimed town in post 288. I said I was not scum. Which in this game means I am town, because there are no neutral roles. Like I said I thought when someone asked me to claim, I thought claiming meant role claiming, which I still won't do until it gets closer to lynch day.

In fact now that I think about it claiming town is stupid. Of course people are going to claim town, so why ask them to claim?

Starbuck kinda covered this, but claiming refers to whether or not somebody has a special role. That's why it's important not to claim until you absolutely have to if you do have a special role. If you're a cop or a doctor that's info you want to keep to yourself for as long as possible, as revealing that prematurely would make you a scum target. You never want the mafia to have any more information than necessary.

Also, I'm currently in relay marathon, and I won't be back home for 36 hours or so... just a heads up.

[bouchedufou]

So, this means hiphop is either a mafia or special role, since he's unwilling to claim, right?

[Starbuck]

So, this means hiphop is either a mafia or special role, since he's unwilling to claim, right?

He wasn't unwilling as soon as I claimed, which I find fishy all in and of itself.

[hiphop]

I just said I was town. I never said what role I was.

[Starbuck]

And I claimed my role, you still have not.

[hiphop]

And I claimed my role, you still have not.

What about it? I will explain why I did not claim, when I claim.