/in-Vitational Game 5, Simon Mafia 2: Game Over before 832

[forbiddanlight]

forbiddanlight: The only game we've ever been in together, I was hugely unhelpful. You have given absolutely no reason why I'm unlikely to act this way as town, merely pointed out that I would as scum. ("Elmo would breathe as scum, Elmo is breathing, therefore Elmo is scum".)

You were? But you were at least trying and had reasonably valid reasons for lynching me.

In this game you've done nothing.

[LlamaFluff]

@LF: Well, generally if a scumbag's getting wagoned, their buddies tend to try and start a wagon on someone else, especially early on when wagons don't need much to get started, but no-one really seemed interested in trying. (My reasoning here is kinda like JDodge's in Open 55.) But for example, if Zaz and Danny happen to be scum (with 3 scum total), the single leftover mafioso isn't going to have much influence on the voting patterns. So the more it looks like no-one would be wagoning regardless of alignment, the harder it is (or less reliable) to tell why scum aren't wagoning.

So DDD is town because lack of a different wagon appeared when it was dancing the line between random and semi-random?

If the majority of people can get reads, then you certainly can.

Why? That's a pretty bizarre statement.

Not really. If there are people accusing people of being scum, there is enough information present for a read out there. There may not be enough for you to go "if im a doctor im protecting them" or enough to case a vote of your own, but there is information out there.

Even if you have weak reads, especially at a time like this you need to put them out and at least attempt to explain them. I do not buy that your scum list is neutral-everyone, and thats it.

[Elmo]

In this game you've done nothing.

Second time: Why am I unlikely to do this as town?

[Elmo]

So DDD is town because lack of a different wagon appeared when it was dancing the line between random and semi-random?

That was my idea. I didn't like it, because it's hard to tell here why the other wagon didn't appear.

Even if you have weak reads, especially at a time like this you need to put them out and at least attempt to explain them. I do not buy that your scum list is neutral-everyone, and thats it.

Okay.

[forbiddanlight]

Second time: Why am I unlikely to do this as town?

Last time you were town you didn't. You actually did something.

[petroleumjelly]

Official Day One Vote Count #16

4 - Elmo (Patrick, forbiddanlight, LlamaFluff, Battousai)
4 - ZazieR (Goatrevolt, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Lord Gurgi, Elmo)
1 - Battousai (SpyreX)
1 - Debonair Danny DiPietro (ZazieR)
1 - Lord Gurgi (Nuwen)

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch and

4

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is September 1, 10:00 pm CDT.

Not Voting – 1 – TDC

---

LOCK COUNT

9 - Green (TDC, LlamaFluff, SpyreX, forbiddanlight, Battousai, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Nuwen, Goatrevolt, Lord Gurgi)
0 - Blue
0 - Red
0 - Yellow

Not Locking – 3 – Elmo, Patrick, ZazieR

At nightfall, the floor to be locked is: GREEN

.

[Lord Gurgi]

Elmo really seems to be making a calm and intelligent defense for himself.

That

is a lot better than what ZazieR has done.

[Lord Gurgi]

Shouldn't ZazieR be the deadline lynch currently since he reached four votes first?

[Patrick]

What exactly characterises my "complete failure to look for scum"?

I just don't see you doing anything useful. Even when you caught up you only had an opinion on one person's alignment (or two if you were in fact stating a mild town read on DDD), and I don't see how you were trying to get any more. You only seem to have started doing anything today. I got a completely different vibe from your play is BSG, and I can't think of a game where you've played in this manner as town. If you think that's wrong then please link me to one where you've played similarly and I'll look.

[Elmo]

PYP3.

<_<

[Elmo]

(@LF: Okay to the second part. I get that you don't buy it, and I'm not really inclined to argue.)

FL: Playing differently can be caused either by a different alignment or different circumstances. Why do you think alignment is more likely? Why do you think I would behave like this as town?

[Nuwen]

Here, alive, reading. This game kills me. Every time I begin trying to follow posts here I zone out and end up reading the same sentence half a dozen times with no significance.

[Patrick]

And that's the funny thing. Even though you were unhelpful in the game, particularly in early stages, I still recall having a much better idea of what you thought of the game, and even what you were trying to achieve in places.

I think you were trying to avoid an early nightkill, and your flippant and unhelpful play early on seems different to here.

[Patrick]

That was addressed to Elmo, in case of any confusion.

[forbiddanlight]

FL: Playing differently can be caused either by a different alignment or different circumstances. Why do you think alignment is more likely? Why do you think I would behave like this as town?

If I thought you were behaving like this as town, I'd not be voting you.

Overall, you are unhelpful and anti town. This is more likely to come from scum than town. A purely meta based defense won't really convince me otherwise. You could, maybe, start scumhunting and being helpful?

[Elmo]

Here, alive, reading. This game kills me. Every time I begin trying to follow posts here I zone out and end up reading the same sentence half a dozen times with no significance.

Same. :V

I can't see a lot of point to keep posting here?

[forbiddanlight]

I can't see a lot of point to keep posting here?

Unless you plan to tell us who's scum, not really.

[Elmo]

Righto.

[Nuwen]

Someone succinctly summarize exactly how Elmo is anti-town, and why his anti-town behavior is equivalent to scummy instead of being alignment-neutral (albeit detrimental to the town). Pretty please.

[Lord Gurgi]

This is silly. He hasn't done anything special to deserve being a semi-random lynch. This wagon has grown too quickly from nothing. *Guess* who's number three.

[forbiddanlight]

Someone succinctly summarize exactly how Elmo is anti-town, and why his anti-town behavior is equivalent to scummy instead of being alignment-neutral (albeit detrimental to the town). Pretty please.

Lack of scumhunting, check
Lack of attempts at scumhunting despite being demonstrably around, check
Lack of really valid defense against these charges, check
Lack of attempts to find a better case than the one on him, check.

Yeah, basically that.

Why it's scummy as opposed to alignment neutral is mostly the lack of scumhunting/helpfulness charges. Yes, these also apply to Zaz but my limited meta on both players shows it as more unusual on Elmo's part.

[Nuwen]

And you honestly think a competent scum player would so blatantly ignore the game and draw attention to himself through non-contribution.

I want to hear a few people summarize their reasons to lynch Elmo now, and I want to hear how his flip will reflect on other players in the game.

[forbiddanlight]

And you honestly think a competent scum player would so blatantly ignore the game and draw attention to himself through non-contribution.

I believe people make mistakes. Are you SERIOUSLY arguing a "too scummy to be scum" thing?

Seriously?

[Elmo]

And you honestly think a competent scum player would so blatantly ignore the game and draw attention to himself through non-contribution.

Yes. Absolutely.

There's like two or three parts. Before V/LA, I didn't do very much. Then I went on V/LA without any strong reads, came back, still don't have strong reads.

[Lord Gurgi]

Apathy extends to all alignments. I'm sure we've all had a game where we were dragged through, and I can tell you, in my experience, it's been nothing about my alignment, it's all been meatworld or bad player chemistry.