/in-Vitational Game 5, Simon Mafia 2: Game Over before 832

[Nuwen]

There's a difference between "would be poor play as scum" and "too scummy to be scum." Don't conflate, please.

Haven't finished catching up and I feel a narco-nap coming on, but I'm not supporting what appears to be a near-policy lynch and I need to weigh in on everyone supporting it. There's scum there, probably. 20 pages is more than enough material to narrow down a scum elimination lynch, rather than a "he's done some anti-town stuff that isn't necessarily scummy" lynch.

(so tired that I posted this in the wrong game the first time around, whoops)

[forbiddanlight]

Apathy extends to all alignments. I'm sure we've all had a game where we were dragged through, and I can tell you, in my experience, it's been nothing about my alignment, it's all been meatworld or bad player chemistry.

The latter should be eliminated or minimized due to the layout of the game. The former is entirely possible, but I still don't see it as fair to give him a free pass.

[forbiddanlight]

There's a difference between "would be poor play as scum" and "too scummy to be scum." Don't conflate, please.

Uh huh. Well, then I'd suggest you don't minimize. Cause that is effectively what you said.

Haven't finished catching up and I feel a narco-nap coming on, but I'm not supporting what appears to be a near-policy lynch and I need to weigh in on everyone supporting it. There's scum there, probably. 20 pages is more than enough material to narrow down a scum elimination lynch, rather than a "he's done some anti-town stuff that isn't necessarily scummy" lynch.

Good, I'd love to actually seem some analysis from you besides hedging your bets regarding me.

[Nuwen]

What makes you think that this game is any less subject to player incompatibility and apathy? Players /in'd for this game, players /in for normal games (with the added ability of being able to screen exactly who they're signing up with, rather than submitting to the whim of Xyl's eharmony robot).

Why are other inattentive players in this game not catching your attention equally right now?

Answer my question about alignment splicing other players, please. If you think Elmo is scum, name his suspected partners. Can you? If not, is that really the best informational lynch possible?

[Elmo]

I think it's fair to say that I have a meta for not being interested / involved very early on in Day 1. My last game was Mini 792 - Tofu Mafia, for reference. This also fits pretty exactly with my play in BSG up to the point I decided a gambit was called for, incidentally. And Crackers D1, and probably some others.

Nuwen, do you think I should have played scum and just faked suspicions of some random people?

[Patrick]

And you honestly think a competent scum player would so blatantly ignore the game and draw attention to himself through non-contribution.

In Satin Doll Showdown he did very little on day 1 as scum, and drew attention through non-contribution. I don't think it's unlikely. Are you clearing Zazier based on similar reasoning, or does this only apply to good players?

Haven't finished catching up and I feel a narco-nap coming on, but I'm not supporting what appears to be a near-policy lynch and I need to weigh in on everyone supporting it

BULLSHIT. I don't policy lynch people, I don't settle with lynching people who are annoying me, I want to lynch scum. I vote people who I think are acting in a scummy way. You're free to disagree, but you're clearly not reading my posts if you're branding this as policy. Wow. People tried to turn off the wagon on him in the game I've linked to in exactly the way you're doing now.

I need to go and eat dinner, I've hung around far too long. The most annoying thing is I'm starting to believe him. I really don't like what Nuwen just chimed in with, but I need to think about this.

[forbiddanlight]

Answer my question about alignment splicing other players, please. If you think Elmo is scum, name his suspected partners. Can you? If not, is that really the best informational lynch possible?

Well, I wanted to avoid the lining up lynches accusation, but fine.

You and LG. Obviously defending Elmo to the death. On your own, LG seems to be proposing that anti town color claim which would have basically given scum a list of targets, and Nuwen hasn't really been doing much except vague information and a couple shots at me for doubt.

Also, where was this question of yours?

Why are other inattentive players in this game not catching your attention equally right now?

Why don't you name them?

What makes you think that this game is any less subject to player incompatibility and apathy? Players /in'd for this game, players /in for normal games

Because of the fact we were much more able to filter our player list.

[Nuwen]

I think it's fair to say that I have a meta for not being interested / involved very early on in Day 1. My last game was Mini 792 - Tofu Mafia, for reference. This also fits pretty exactly with my play in BSG up to the point I decided a gambit was called for, incidentally. And Crackers D1, and probably some others.

Nuwen, do you think I should have played scum and just faked suspicions of some random people?

You don't need to fake suspicion to pull information out of people, which is what I consider the goal of Day 1.

Do you backread Day 1 activity on days following, or does it remain a fairly blind spot?

[Nuwen]

but you're clearly not reading my posts if you're branding this as policy.

Yep. I just said that I haven't really read past page 14 or 15, with the exception of the question/response following my reentry into the thread. I asked for a summary of cases on Elmo, and the one I got from FL vaguely resembles a policy lynch.

Hey FL, why are you assuming that I'm trying to build a case against you? I want motives, my posts aren't accusatory. They're questioning.

Who are your top partner choices for Elmo?

The 'filter' on this playerlist is no different than clicking on a queue thread and deciding whether or not you want to play with whomever has signed up (there's less control, actually, since a script did the matchmaking). I, for example, am not having a ton of funtastic fun figuring out whether you've got a stick in your ass or some ulterior reason for the 'tude.

Why don't you name them?

The prod list is a good place to begin.

[Elmo]

Patrick: In Satin Doll, I was genuinely V/LA, though. I told you that post-game. "Lynch Elmo if V/LA" probably isn't a good play? (Glork was essentially right to complain about the wagon, seeing as it was started by scum and was 50% scum at lynch, imo. But we debated that already <_<)

You don't need to fake suspicion to pull information out of people, which is what I consider the goal of Day 1.

Mmm. That's not what I asked, though.

As to Day 1: it varies. I think that I mostly skim it (ie actually read it) but make empty motions until something "interesting" happens that I can get involved with. In BSG, I kinda intentionally started a wagon on myself out of boredom. >_>

Are you even TRYING?

I imagine I'm very trying.

Good times.

[forbiddanlight]

Hey FL, why are you assuming that I'm trying to build a case against you? I want motives, my posts aren't accusatory. They're questioning. Who are your top partner choices for Elmo?

Hey, Nuwen, why are you assuming I'm referring to what you are doing now as the pokes against me?

Who are your top partner choices for Zaz?

I can play this game too yanno. And I guess you at the moment. It fluctuates.

I, for example, am not having a ton of funtastic fun figuring out whether you've got a stick in your ass or some ulterior reason for the 'tude.

I for one, have no idea what in the nine hells you are talking about. Elaborate?

The prod list is a good place to begin.

So, you wanted to ping my radar? Despite the fact you HAD posted content before you disappeared? As well as DDD to some extent?

Ok...yeah, not working

Good times.

That was pretty cool.

I'm vaguely surprised neither of us put each other on the Do Not Want list.

[Lord Gurgi]

So... FL. Don't you think DDD is being scummy? He's disappeared again.

[Nuwen]

You don't need to fake suspicion to pull information out of people, which is what I consider the goal of Day 1.

Mmm. That's not what I asked, though.

Are you asking me what your ideal play as scum should be? I expect smattered suspicion on day 1, some form of blending in, a bit of pro-town wagoning on either a forerunning case (which could even be scum-created, but probably not), and most anything except submitting to a lynch.

"Meh, don't care, should stop posting" screams exasperated and bored town.

Nuwen needs sleep now, will be back in a few hours. No lurking-based/noncontribution lynches in the mean time, pretty please with sugar on top and ice cream in the middle. Take some sprinkles too.

[forbiddanlight]

So... FL. Don't you think DDD is being scummy? He's disappeared again.

I'd have to reread him. I do have that knack for tunneling.

Nuwen needs sleep now, will be back in a few hours. No lurking-based/noncontribution lynches in the mean time, pretty please with sugar on top and ice cream in the middle. Take some sprinkles too.

Considering how hard it was to reach 4 votes on Elmo in the first place, I do not suspect we will have this issue.

[Nuwen]

Your partner list and alignment paradigm for players associated with Elmo, FL. Fourth time is the charm?

Patrick, you too.

Tired and irate. Really going now.

[Elmo]

Considering how hard it was to reach 4 votes on Elmo in the first place, I do not suspect we will have this issue.

It looked pretty straightforward from where I'm sitting. :J

[forbiddanlight]

Your partner list and alignment paradigm for players associated with Elmo, FL. Fourth time is the charm?

LEARN TO FUCKING READ, FOR THE FIRST TIME

No, seriously, I already fucking told you who was associated with Elmo, and both are assumably scum with him if he flips scum. They have lesser scumtells associated with them, but as for that, they aren't worth lynching for.

[Lord Gurgi]

Can we cool off?

[forbiddanlight]

Can we cool off?

Certainly. I'd just like Nuwen to actually read for what she's asking for before she yells at me. Maybe she should pay attention and she might actually get somewhere with her questioning ^-^

[petroleumjelly]

“Hi. I am going to refer our guests to the

very first rule

of our little game:"

1.)

Be civil.

“If you can’t say something nice, then by all means,

please

let me know and I will be happy to be as accommodating about the situation as possible.

"My methods of accommodation are very specialized, in that I solve problems by lodging bullets in brains. I find that people who require my help are so impressed after a single session that they never have to request my services again. If there is a single thing I pride myself in in this life, it is cleaning up the messes that people make for themselves. And the brains and blood that go along with it."

~

Official Day One Vote Count #17

4 - Elmo (Patrick, forbiddanlight, LlamaFluff, Battousai)
4 - ZazieR (Goatrevolt, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Lord Gurgi, Elmo)
1 - Battousai (SpyreX)
1 - Debonair Danny DiPietro (ZazieR)
1 - Lord Gurgi (Nuwen)

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch and

4

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is September 1, 10:00 pm CDT.

Not Voting – 1 – TDC

---

LOCK COUNT

9 - Green (TDC, LlamaFluff, SpyreX, forbiddanlight, Battousai, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Nuwen, Goatrevolt, Lord Gurgi)
0 - Blue
0 - Red
0 - Yellow

Not Locking – 3 – Elmo, Patrick, ZazieR

At nightfall, the floor to be locked is: GREEN

.

[forbiddanlight]

"My methods of accommodation are very specialized, in that I solve problems by lodging bullets in brains. I find that people who require my help are so impressed after a single session that they never have to request my services again. If there is a single thing I pride myself in in this life, it is cleaning up the messes that people make for themselves. And the brains and blood that go along with it."

Gimme the rack and we got an agreement ^-^

[SpyreX]

I don't understand why this matters. Is there a huge difference between a lynch wagon of 4 votes, and a lynch wagon of 7 votes where the last 3 votes are just people piling on for the purpose of achieving a lynch?

In the long run? Yes.

If people can get away with letting a smaller wagon go and it happens to be a mislynch then the fingers point at the people doing it. Which, if the four are town and the scum are just sitting back fingersnapping is a wonderful world.

If the last 3 are just "to put their votes" well thats still better than the above.

Agree or disagree with a wagon getting the opinions out is always going to be important.

-----

Actually, looking at the last few pages I've got a question that really begs to be answered:

Nuwen. Why the ardent defense of Elmo? And the fact that most of your pushing is on someone we are not lynching today, period?

Actually this gives me the heebie jeebies overall. This reeks of Nu-scum defending Elmo-town.

Deadline is far too close for a mad reals wagon on it.

However, just to make sure.

Unvote, Vote: Zazier

I want this other mess cleared up, but not from lynching Elmo at this point.

[Goatrevolt]

Answer my question about alignment splicing other players, please. If you think Elmo is scum, name his suspected partners. Can you? If not, is that really the best informational lynch possible?

Who is lynching for information? This is completely irrelevant to whether or not Elmo is scum and completely irrelevant to whether or not we should lynch him.

"Meh, don't care, should stop posting" screams exasperated and bored town.

That post had such a complete lack of emotion that I don't see how it could possibly "scream" anything.

I'm not reading Elmo as scummy, but in the same vein I hate Nuwen's defense of him. The "who are partners" reason is a complete non-issue as to whether or not Elmo should be lynched, and the complete ignorance of the equally sized Zazie wagon is bothersome. Her play isn't "stop wagon's on lurkers/non contributors" as she claims, but rather "stop wagon on Elmo".

Nuwen: Your thoughts on Zazie? Do you have an alternative choice to the lynches today? You've stepped up to defend Elmo, but you're ignoring the equal sized wagon on Zazie completely. Why is one wagon on a non-contributor worth your efforts to stop but not the other?

-----------------------

Anyway, here is an actually valid reason as to why we should not be lynching Elmo today and should be lynching Zazie or Batt instead.

Batt FoS'd Zazie early on in the game, yet he joined the Elmo wagon just now, and why? It's strictly an "inactive" lynch. There are two huge problems with that.

1. Elmo is more active than Zazie.
2. Zazie is an inactive who Batt has already expressed suspicion on this game. Why the hell would he go for the other inactive, who is less inactive, when he was already "suspicious" of the first?

It's a blatant attempt to save Zazie.

[Goatrevolt]

Actually this gives me the heebie jeebies overall. This reeks of Nu-scum defending Elmo-town.

I'm in full agreement.

[forbiddanlight]

...

Duh.

Unvote, vote Zazie

Reasons are the persuasive arguments of Spy and Goat.

I got rather tunnely. Let it be known I WILL support a Nuwen lynch should the opportunity arise.

I know I'm gonna catch hell for that one.