Newbie 816 - Game over!

[zwetschenwasser]

purple and ikd, I'm having trouble understanding exactly what you're asking me. In your next posts, please give me a list of the questions you want answered and I will do my best to answer satisfactorily in a way that confirms you are scum.

Purple just gave you an entire post (#360) of questions that you have left unanswered. And my post (#358) has a question which you failed to answer twice. Please answer those, as well read through and answer any that we might have missed that you failed to answer.

To me, you sound like you're completely uninterested in the game. If that's the case, please replace out so everyone else can enjoy playing with an active, competent player. Otherwise, actually start playing the game and answering questions and such.

Manzcar: in your post, you ask people for their opinions and ideas about things, but fail to give your own. What are your thought's on zwet's arguments against purple and myself as well as our arguments in response? And what are your views on havingfitz's discussion with crazy?

I'm not answering your questions because I don't understand them, and I don't see how you can call everything I'm saying "sounding uninterested in the game".

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

imkingdavid - 1 (zwetschenwasser)

zwetschenwasser - 3 (purple princess, crazypianist1116, imkingdavid)

Not Voting - 3 (Cirdua, havingfitz, Manzcar)

4 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Saturday, September 5.

[zwetschenwasser]

Interesting. The peanut gallery is preferring to watch instead of vote.

[purple princess]

Have just skimmed over this game again, to see if I can come up with any other thoughts on who may be scum besides zwetschenwasser right now.
Reading through Havingfitz's posts from day one and some of his recent posts seem like he has gained quite a good knowledge of this game in a very short space of time.
Firstly he was playing the newbie card, and using this if he made any "slip ups" or his inconsistency of posts, but since the night kill he seems to have picked up what is happening very quickly.
I am unable to make out if this is just a coincidence or if maybe havingfitz's scum buddy has had some doing in this?
He seems to explain quite logically why EB was probably night killed, he also say's that he doesn't think that both scum would have voted for Dramonic on day one, does this include himself as he was still voting for tfrench/crazypianist1116 at this time, which seems to be a pointless argument which nobody really seems to care about which means that havingfitz may be using this to escape under the radar of being scum?

[Cirdua]

I'm not answering your questions because I don't understand them

don't understand them? what's so difficult about them? Maybe you misread them so I'll post them anew

Is there any reason why you needed to make sure everyone knew he (Adel) was a scumhunting master?

Anyway, what was your aim from your post when you said, "as you continue to insist that your "teaching points" were helpful and lucid".

Zwets how does IKD being alive constitute a good reason for his lynch?

Zwets, from what I can read in your ISO post 6 you stated that IKD was scummy for:
1. insisting teaching points were lucid and helpful
2. he was acting defensively
3. He was acting sarcastically.
Are these the only three reasons you find IKD scummy?

Zwets do you plan on explaining your case for IKD and Princess being scum buddies? (this is a more polite way of saying: Explain yourself, now!)

purple princess and ikd are obvious scum buddies.

Why?

Would you care to elaborate on why you think I am scum?

is this omgus because I voted for you?

do you think anyone is going to belive you when you just write one line on who you think is scum?

I don't have much time so I put them all in one quote, see Post 360 if you want to know who wrote them. I don't see any of these question as especially difficult to answer, so I can't imagine how you could have trouble with it.

Interesting. The peanut gallery is preferring to watch instead of vote.

"peanut gallery" is that an insult?

[imkingdavid]

@zwet: It's not rocket science. The questions are not difficult. At all. I say that you are uninterested in the game because you seem unwilling to take two seconds out of your day to answer any questions.

[zwetschenwasser]

Hmm... I'm willing to spend hours coming up with perfectly valid reasoning on your and princess' scumminess, and you don't notice. Makes perfect sense!

[zwetschenwasser]

Is there any reason why you needed to make sure everyone knew he (Adel) was a scumhunting master?

No

Anyway, what was your aim from your post when you said, "as you continue to insist that your "teaching points" were helpful and lucid".

To show a hint of scumminess on IKD's part. After being told several times by several different players of the worthlessness of his post, he continued to insist that everyone else was wrong and that his post was "helpful and lucid".

Zwets how does IKD being alive constitute a good reason for his lynch?

It does not.

Zwets, from what I can read in your ISO post 6 you stated that IKD was scummy for:
1. insisting teaching points were lucid and helpful
2. he was acting defensively
3. He was acting sarcastically.
Are these the only three reasons you find IKD scummy?

No.

Zwets do you plan on explaining your case for IKD and Princess being scum buddies? (this is a more polite way of saying: Explain yourself, now!)

Read my posts. I've done a great job of explaining myself.

zwetschenwasser wrote:

purple princess and ikd are obvious scum buddies.

Why?

I've explained.

Would you care to elaborate on why you think I am scum?

I have.

is this omgus because I voted for you?

Heck no.

do you think anyone is going to belive you when you just write one line on who you think is scum?

I have not.

[imkingdavid]

This is comical. Ok... (all quotes are zwets)

Is there any reason why you needed to make sure everyone knew he (Adel) was a scumhunting master?

No

Then you were just putting that out there, then? whatever.

Anyway, what was your aim from your post when you said, "as you continue to insist that your "teaching points" were helpful and lucid".

To show a hint of scumminess on IKD's part. After being told several times by several different players of the worthlessness of his post, he continued to insist that everyone else was wrong and that his post was "helpful and lucid".

I actually can't remember ever insisting my post was either of the two. I was trying to be helpful, and while I did insist that my idea about looking for scum buddies was accurate, I never insisted that my post was helpful. And I can't remember ever calling it "lucid" either. I still don't even know for sure what that word means.

Also, I seem to recall asking for people to explain to me why my idea is such a bad one, but the only response I ever got was "You're arrogant; shut up." Can someone please for once and for all explain to me how it can help town for us to look for scum buddies before we know the identity of one of the scum? I understand that even after that there is some level of WIFOM, but there's even more before you know one person. Thanks.

Zwets how does IKD being alive constitute a good reason for his lynch?

It does not.

But you used it as reasoning for a potential lynch of me.

Zwets, from what I can read in your ISO post 6 you stated that IKD was scummy for:
1. insisting teaching points were lucid and helpful
2. he was acting defensively
3. He was acting sarcastically.
Are these the only three reasons you find IKD scummy?

No.

Maybe we should stop asking yes or no questions because that's all you ever say. Since those aren't your only reasons, and I can't seem to find any others,

would you be willing to post them?

(oops that was a question you would just say yes or no to... let's try this) what the heck are they?

Zwets do you plan on explaining your case for IKD and Princess being scum buddies? (this is a more polite way of saying: Explain yourself, now!)

Read my posts. I've done a great job of explaining myself.

Obviously not... if you had, people wouldn't be asking you to explain yourself. Duh.

zwetschenwasser wrote:

purple princess and ikd are obvious scum buddies.

Why?

I've explained.

Like I said, you didn't explain well enough, because people have to ask you to reiterate your thoughts.

Would you care to elaborate on why you think I am scum?

I have.

See the previous two responses.

is this omgus because I voted for you?

Heck no.

do you think anyone is going to belive you when you just write one line on who you think is scum?

I have not.

Most of your posts in this game have been one liners/one sentence (I count it the same; even if a sentence spans more than one line on the screen, it's still one line in my book b/c it's just one sentence). Yes, there are a few (including the one above) that have had more than one sentence, but they are few and far between and usually don't actually say much more than the one liners as far as content goes (aside from word count).

[zwetschenwasser]

You've got to be kidding me. If you're unwilling to spend a portion of your time to read over my day 2 game posts before posting your pile of crap then request a replacement.

[imkingdavid]

I'm not unwilling to read your posts. I'm just amazed that you're unwilling to answer peoples' questions satisfactorily. Yes, the answer might have already been posted. And one or two questions that you don't answer is fine. But there's a whole list of questions that you finally, but inadequately, answered.

Anyway, I'll read back through your posts to try and find answers to the questions presented against you. However, it would be much faster, since you already know it, for you to just put all of the information here in one post. That way, instead of having to ask again or anything, we can just refer back to the one post (also instead of having to search through a bunch of posts).

Lastly, I'm less willing to spend a portion of my time to read of your day 2 posts because you're unwilling to satisfactorily answer them. If you would sit down and give us some answers when we ask a question (and I'll do the same for you), I'll be less frustrated if I have to look back over posts. It's simple.

[zwetschenwasser]

Your questions are ignorant of pretty much everything I've said day 2. It's like you're focusing on whatever you can about day 1 and early day 2 and ignoring the several pages when I actually built and solidified my case against you and princess.

[imkingdavid]

Post by Post Analysis of Zwet from Day 2 on (Starting with ISO Post 23).

Ok, so you start the day with a vote on me. Reasoning? "It's obvious what needs to be done here." Eh... no... it's not.
Anyway you expand on your vote, explaining that your reasoning is that I was not killed last night. Wow.
In post 25, you state that you were "positive that dram was scum" so now we should move on to case #2. But wait a minute. Do you remember what dram flipped as? Townie. So if you were positive that he was scum, why should anyone follow you to your next case that is based on me not being killed?
Moving on, post 26 is a blatant refusal to expand on your vote, although post 27 moves on up, stating that I am your only suspect. It seems that your reasonings behind your vote are slowly falling into place. Over a long span of posts. But we'll see.
Post 28 is wonderful: purple and I are obvious scum buddies. Evidence? Nada. I sense a pattern. Maybe you'll explain yourself in the next few posts? ...nope.
Post 29 = too-townie argument.
Post 30, you mention a trap. I still don't understand how that one works, although you keep pointing to it as if it's a brilliant plan-gone-right that paints me as obv-scum.
Post 31 is an attempt to explain post 30, but like I said, it's gibberish to me. You aren't making any sense whatsoever.
Post 32 calls me out for not responding to your case. Eh... I don't see a case yet. I must have gone blind or something, because it's just not there.
Post 33... ahh, here we are. You try to defend your behavior, but then admit (post 34, 35) that we can't prove that it's your play style anyway. So you could be lying for all we know. Why bring it up?
36 tries to direct me to your case on the previous page. I still don't see it. Or anything that remotely resembles a case.
37 More about your elusive playstyle.

Ah, 38. It's when you say that my day 1 actions are nothing to you. Yeah right. It's the basis of your vote on me; In your earlier post before your "trap" you state that I am your only suspect/I am the most scummy to you. But you have nothing but day 1 to base it on by that point. So no, day 1 actions obviously aren't null to you.

39 you try to say that Too-TOwnie is a scum tell.
In 40, it becomes clear that we must be talking about two different things.
41: "Yes I could be scum or town"... that applies to every single other living person in this game. "I've shown how likely it is for IKD to be scum"...eh, no I still don't see it.

43... blame me of ignoring your questions. Which I don't see. Plus, it's obvious hypocrisy here, as you clearly ignored multiple peoples' questions for multiple posts, even pages.
44... "I have answered everything..." eh, no. No you haven't. Well, currently you have, but not by post 44 when you claimed to have.
45 - apparently I'm twisting actions to suit my argument. I don't get it.
46 - false statement.
47-49 - nothing important
50 - you try to feign ignorance saying that you don't understand the questions. uh uh... we already reposted the questions once or twice. If you didn't understand a question, ask for clarification. Don't just ignore it.
51 - same.
52 - unimportant
53 - ... you spent hours coming up with that? Well, your one-sentence, poorly explained posts containing your bs theories don't show it.
54 - and here are your unsatisfactory answers to our questions (aka you basically just said yes and no without explaining... as per the pattern).
55 - accuse me of not being willing to put time and thought into the game... hypocrite.
56 - more reasoning behind not adequately posting answers to our questions. Btw, "several pages" of a case? nah, I don't see it.

There. I just went over your day two posts. I don't see a case. I don't see an active, scumhunting zwet. Explain yourself in more than two lines.

[purple princess]

ok my thoughts right now are that we seem to have totally exasperated the whole zwetschenwasser is scum topic, nothing else seems to be going on in this game, and I am finding it really hard to keep posting when there isn't really anything new to comment on right now. There also may be a slight chance that we are letting real scum go under the radar whilst we keep going back and fouth about what we have and haven't answered in this game.

Just wanted to ask eveybody, does anybody have any thoughts on who looks scummy right now? Has anybody posted anything that makes you change your mind on who you may think is scum?

I still think that zwetschenwasser still looks scummy to me, I understand that he says this is just his playstyle, but I still feel a little uneasy about this.

I still feel a little suspicious of IKD when posting in day one he came across as very arrogant but was given a second chance and he has changed the way he is posting, I have the slight feeling that maybe he was chosen as scum for the first time in this game and was unsure how to react so this is why he started posting his "teaching points" and maybe he thought people would think "hey he sounds too nice to be scum!"

I know there are only two scum to find but I also think that there is something a little fishy about havingfitz as I have already posted in 378

[imkingdavid]

I still feel a little suspicious of IKD when posting in day one he came across as very arrogant but was given a second chance and he has changed the way he is posting, I have the slight feeling that maybe he was chosen as scum for the first time in this game and was unsure how to react so this is why he started posting his "teaching points" and maybe he thought people would think "hey he sounds too nice to be scum!"

Actually, in my first game I was scum. It's finished so we can reference it. Newbie 802 if you're wondering.

[purple princess]

I still feel a little suspicious of IKD when posting in day one he came across as very arrogant but was given a second chance and he has changed the way he is posting, I have the slight feeling that maybe he was chosen as scum for the first time in this game and was unsure how to react so this is why he started posting his "teaching points" and maybe he thought people would think "hey he sounds too nice to be scum!"

Actually, in my first game I was scum. It's finished so we can reference it. Newbie 802 if you're wondering.

I've had a quick look at this, it still doesn't change my gut feelings about you I'm afraid.

[zwetschenwasser]

CIRDUA HAVINGFITZ OTHER PEOPLE COMMENT ON WHAT IS TAKING PLACE, don't just lurk and watch.

[Manzcar]

I do feel like we are going around in circles with Zwets. I still feel his play has been scummy, but also agree with Princess that we need to be looking at more than just Zwets at this time.

I actually played in game 802 with IKD and had a gut feeling that he was scum in that game but couldn’t convince people that he was scum. But I don’t see how IKD and Zwets could be connected as scum buddies. They are attacking each other way too hard. Though this is more WIFOM than anything else I just don’t see it.

I do see Zwets having a connection with Fitz. Zwets ignored the interaction between Fitz and CP and made a point of calling it two townies arguing. Fitz has also made it a point to state that Zwets doesn’t seem scummy to him because of his playstyle, because scum wouldn’t want to play that way because it would call attention to them. In fact Fitz is the only one who doesn’t believe that Zwets is scummy.

[havingfitz]

Reading through Havingfitz's posts from day one and some of his recent posts seem like he has gained quite a good knowledge of this game in a very short space of time.

Considering you have spent the entire game basically dismissing my posts as worthless this is quite a dramatic turnaround for you PP.

Firstly he was playing the newbie card, and using this if he made any "slip ups" or his inconsistency of posts, but since the night kill he seems to have picked up what is happening very quickly.

As this is my first mafia experience is playing the newbie card improper? Just want to make sure everyone knows where I'm coming from. I've tried to stay away from that card lately as I don't want to come off as a broken record...like your criticisms of the value of my posts to the game prior to now (?). I've tried to be more active since before the night kill...the game has been going on for over a month now so I would say any opinions I have developed have come quickly. I'm happy to discuss any of my "slip-ups" further if you point them out. The L-1 vote? Others?

I am unable to make out if this is just a coincidence or if maybe havingfitz's scum buddy has had some doing in this?

Nice insinuation. I guess if I can suspect you and CP it's only fair for you to deflect suspicions back my way. BTW...I have no scum buddy

He seems to explain quite logically why EB was probably night killed,

You say my night kill analysis was quite logical while CP says I'm pointing out the obvious and grasping WIFOM. Make up your minds.

he also say's that he doesn't think that both scum would have voted for Dramonic on day one, does this include himself as he was still voting for tfrench/crazypianist1116 at this time, which seems to be a pointless argument which nobody really seems to care about which means that havingfitz may be using this to escape under the radar of being scum?

Looks like you are returning the favor and defending your scum buddy CP from my vote on him. At least I took a position with my vote...unlike some who didn't vote at all.

CIRDUA HAVINGFITZ OTHER PEOPLE COMMENT ON WHAT IS TAKING PLACE, don't just lurk and watch.

I have been away from internet access and have been posting more regularly. Chill.

I do see Zwets having a connection with Fitz. Zwets ignored the interaction between Fitz and CP and made a point of calling it two townies arguing. Fitz has also made it a point to state that Zwets doesn’t seem scummy to him because of his playstyle, because scum wouldn’t want to play that way because it would call attention to them. In fact Fitz is the only one who doesn’t believe that Zwets is scummy.

How is ZW's lack of opinion in my exchange with CP a connection? I believe there are others who had no comment at all on it. As for ZW's townie comments, I'm not sure what is townie between two people accusing people of being scummy. But then again...I don't understand a lot of what ZW has posted. I do believe ZW has acted scummy...my focus is simply on others at the moment as ZW's actions were SO scummy and eratic at one point that I did not think anyone who was actually mafia would try that hard to get themselves lynched.

[Cirdua]

CIRDUA HAVINGFITZ OTHER PEOPLE COMMENT ON WHAT IS TAKING PLACE, don't just lurk and watch.

I know I haven't posted that much recently (partially because school has just begun, but also because I don't want to repeat everything that has already been said, because of timezone differences most of the "active" posting phases happen in the late evening or when I'm sleeping) I'll try to be a bit more active from now on. But because of your argument with IKD and tendency of dismissing anything else ass townie-vs-townie, hunting for other scum is a bit difficult. And there are 2 scum in this game, so there's a high chance of someone (scum) to slip by unnoticed.

[purple princess]

@ Havingfitz, the aim of this game is to find scum. I am sorry if you are unable to take criticism from me, but I am trying to look for scum and throughout this game I have had suspicions about you, even though you are posting more now, which is great, but I still have my doubts about you.

BTW...I have no scum buddy

Did you really need to say that? You should have just said "I'm not scum, honest"

You say my night kill analysis was quite logical while CP says I'm pointing out the obvious and grasping WIFOM. Make up your minds.

Obviously myself and cp have different thoughts on your night kill analysis, not eveyone will read a post and get the same out of it.

At least I took a position with my vote...unlike some who didn't vote at all.

If this is refering to me not voting on day one, I did not vote as I really had no real idea on who was scum, would you vote for someone just beacuse everyone else was voting, even if you were unsure if they were scum or town?

FOZ havingfitz

[zwetschenwasser]

CIRDUA HAVINGFITZ OTHER PEOPLE COMMENT ON WHAT IS TAKING PLACE, don't just lurk and watch.

I know I haven't posted that much recently (partially because school has just begun, but also because I don't want to repeat everything that has already been said, because of timezone differences most of the "active" posting phases happen in the late evening or when I'm sleeping) I'll try to be a bit more active from now on. But because of your argument with IKD and tendency of dismissing anything else ass townie-vs-townie, hunting for other scum is a bit difficult. And there are 2 scum in this game, so there's a high chance of someone (scum) to slip by unnoticed.

This is true, but I think my case on IKD at least is substantial.

[imkingdavid]

Bold added by me.

There. I just went over your day two posts.

I don't see a case.

I don't see an active, scumhunting zwet. Explain yourself in more than two lines.

This is true,

but I think my case on IKD at least is substantial.

...?

[zwetschenwasser]

You sir, are BLIND.

[havingfitz]

@ Havingfitz, the aim of this game is to find scum. I am sorry if you are unable to take criticism from me

All I was pointing out was that you've consistently downplayed my game but suddenly/conveniently change your mind to use as a negative point towards me.

BTW...I have no scum buddy

Did you really need to say that? You should have just said "I'm not scum, honest"

You said I had a scum buddy...is responding to that accusation not acceptable?

At least I took a position with my vote...unlike some who didn't vote at all.

If this is refering to me not voting on day one, I did not vote as I really had no real idea on who was scum,

Yet when I don't vote, correctly, for Dramonic I'm flying under the radar? That would apply, even more so IMO, to you as well in this instance.

would you vote for someone just beacuse everyone else was voting, even if you were unsure if they were scum or town?

Absolutely not. Hence the non-Dramonic vote and my current alternative position on ZW from many in the game.

FOZ havingfitz

FOZ?