Mini 686 - Chess Mafia (Done)

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I love the move at first blush, but I haven't really trusted AA or veerus for a while now. I need to look it over more thoroughly before voting.

[EmpTyger]

And, if Black doesn’t do those responses to Qd3? I’m hesitant to start citing lines, because then we give black the best possible response to whatever move we decide, and I’m not certain what that is. But I think Qd3 is only as decisive as IH makes it out to be if black blunders. I’d rather play a move that’s decisive regardless of black’s response.

Still considering Nxh7.

Unmove: Re5

while I do that, I suppose.

TCS:
Yeah, tell me about it. I’m skeptical that veerus, who supposedly thought Re5 was “terrible” and worse than Rhe1 or gxf4, now can understand the much more complicated Qd3. Especially when I’m not certain I do.

[Indigo Heron]

The moves I put forward are the moves that I think Black will make (or at least, moves that I will make).

I love the move at first blush, but I haven't really trusted AA or veerus for a while now. I need to look it over more thoroughly before voting.

Really? I never really trusted veerus, Goatrevolt and ah2190.

[Abstract Actuary]

I've looked into all candidate moves for black immediately following this move and I don't think they have any saving defense. I believe I've looked at all candidate moves 2 moves deep for black and again, I still don't seem them avoiding the loss of material, maybe significant.

I agree that Nxh7 has similar threats and many similar outcomes, but I have seen some possibilities for black to weasel out that they can not do against Qd3.

Also, as long as you are comfortable playing chess, there is no reason to even be concerned with the mafia aspects of this game.

[Indigo Heron]

Also, as long as you are comfortable playing chess, there is no reason to even be concerned with the mafia aspects of this game.

QFT. However, I did have my hair-tearing moments.

[EmpTyger]

IH:
I mean, do you want me to say the line I have a problem with for Qd3?

[Indigo Heron]

Sure, go ahead. I think we can agree that Black is screwed either way.

[Goatrevolt]

Unmove

for now.

I'm not convinced Qd3 is better than Re5 either. I don't see how black escapes Re5 without at least a pawn deficit if not a lot more.

[veerus]

I still believe Re5 is our worst choice. Not crazy about Nxh7 either.. primarily because Qd3 accomplishes pretty much the same thing without the early knight sac.

[ZazieR]

Back. Will look at this game tomorrow.

[EmpTyger]

Qd3 leads to Qd3 Qf8 Nxh7 Qf7 Ng5 Qf8. Unless black blunders, I didn’t see us winning more than a pawn here.

Nxh7 is harder to analyze, because I’m also looking at alternatives to Bf8 and Rf6. I’ll say that so far I’ve not seen any problem with it, but I’m not yet ready to say so definitively.

[Indigo Heron]

Nxh7? White can solidify their position and play Qxd5.

Also, why are we caring about materiel gains, when we should be thinking about their King?

[Abstract Actuary]

Qd3 leads to Qd3 Qf8 Nxh7 Qf7 Ng5 Qf8. Unless black blunders, I didn’t see us winning more than a pawn here.

Nxh7 is harder to analyze, because I’m also looking at alternatives to Bf8 and Rf6. I’ll say that so far I’ve not seen any problem with it, but I’m not yet ready to say so definitively.

If the worst we are doing is winning a pawn, then I think this is a pretty clearcut choice.

Additionally, I may have some alternatives to that line which work out even better for White. But it should be obvious, they need not be mentioned at this time.

[Abstract Actuary]

Qd3 leads to Qd3 Qf8 Nxh7 Qf7 Ng5 Qf8. Unless black blunders, I didn’t see us winning more than a pawn here.

Nxh7 is harder to analyze, because I’m also looking at alternatives to Bf8 and Rf6. I’ll say that so far I’ve not seen any problem with it, but I’m not yet ready to say so definitively.

If the worst we are doing is winning a pawn, then I think this is a pretty clearcut choice.

Additionally, I may have some alternatives to that line which work out even better for White. But it should be obvious, they need not be mentioned at this time.

Sorry for the double post. But I thought it crucial to point out at this point that we should never make a move before we have heard from everyone (or close to it). I would be pissed if I came back on Tuesday and we had played Qd3, then black had played their response and we had pushed through our next move already.

I will repeat. I may have even better alternatives for white than those suggested so far.

[EmpTyger]

Still looking at Nxh7, sorry. It’s been a long day and realistically I do not think I am going to get full chance to tonight.

AA:
In comparison to Nxh7 or Re5, winning only a pawn may be suboptimal.

[veerus]

MSSK has been MIA for a bit sounds like. No reason for us to stop talking. I still like Qd3.

[EmpTyger]

Okay, I'm convinced. Sorry for the delay.

Move: Qd3

[The Central Scrutinizer]

move: Qd3

[MafiaSSK]

1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. f4 e6 4. Nf3 f5 5. exf5 exf5 6. Qe2 Be7 7. Nd5 Nb4 8. Nxb4 cxb4 9. d4 Nf6 10. Qc4 a6 11. Bd2 b5 12. Qd3 O-O 13. Qxf5 d5 14. Qd3 Ne4 15. g3 Bf5 16. Qb3 Nxd2 17. Kxd2 Be4 18. Re1 Kh8 19. Qe3 g5 20. Bd3 gxf4 21. Qe2 Bxd3 22. Qxd3 Bd6 23. Re6 Rf6 24. Ng5 Ra7 25. Qf3 Rf5 26. h4 Be7 27. Qd3

Sorry missed a vote. Proceeding to night 27.

[Awesome Pants]

Day 28!

1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. f4 e6 4. Nf3 f5 5. exf5 exf5 6. Qe2 Be7 7. Nd5 Nb4 8. Nxb4 cxb4 9. d4 Nf6 10. Qc4 a6 11. Bd2 b5 12. Qd3 O-O 13. Qxf5 d5 14. Qd3 Ne4 15. g3 Bf5 16. Qb3 Nxd2 17. Kxd2 Be4 18. Re1 Kh8 19. Qe3 g5 20. Bd3 gxf4 21. Qe2 Bxd3 22. Qxd3 Bd6 23. Re6 Rf6 24. Ng5 Ra7 25. Qf3 Rf5 26. h4 Be7 27. Qd3 Qf8

[Abstract Actuary]

Wow, that was a ridiculously long night for what I think was basically a forced move.

Ok, our plan was Nxf7. My "secret" plan was g4 immediately. I'll bold that move tomorrow unless someone sees a problem with it. I don't see much reason to discuss all the consequences at this point unless you see a problem with a line. We should keep all of our threats close to the vest if we can. All they have to miss is one of them.

If someone points out a refutation that is obviously flawed, then don't explain why.

[Goatrevolt]

No kidding. I was wondering if this game was dead.

G4 is good but I'm not sure g4 is the best. We gain a pawn in terms of piece advantage (assuming rook = 5, bishop = 3, pawn = 1), but we grant black a protected passed pawn, and some offensive threats. I feel with our board position, there has to be a move here that gives black no chance of coming back.

G4 leads to a likely winning endgame. Is there a move that just skips the endgame part and nails black to the wall now?

[veerus]

i don't want to sac the knight now.. it's too early and way too unneccesary.. (at least i assume that you meant Nxh7 not Nxf7)

also, what's your response to 28. Nxh7 Qf7.. none are satisfactory and all stall our attack big time

move: g4

we need to force the issue now

[Indigo Heron]

I will stick by my move.

move: Nxh7

[Abstract Actuary]

Yes, I meant Nxh7 as our previous plan, sorry.

I will stick by my move.

move: Nxh7

Hmmm. Don't you see the superiority of g4?