Newbie 839 - Game over

[Raskol]

vote: Bub Bidderskins

For having exactly two separate words in your name.

[Raskol]

Raskol are you going to whine at me again when I find scum using my terrible, evil numeric strategy again?

V/LA (Camping) through late Sunday and possibly even Monday.

You picked three targets, and one of them was scum. Let me know when it does better than chance.

(So, in other words, yeah I probably will)

[Raskol]

EBWOP: Blah. You know what I mean.

[Raskol]

unvote

vote: Diakron

for taking the RVS too seriously

[Raskol]

Nonsense. Everyone knows the 23rd post is the scummiest.

[Raskol]

More importantly it cleared four players for me and all were town, now that's a useful trait. Clear enough townies and it doesn't matter in what order you lynch everyone else in.

If you feel your method works, go ahead and use it. I myself haven't seen enough evidence that it works well enough to trust---especially since knowing your metrics makes it so easy for scum to play in a way that puts them in your 'cleared' zone.

Also, I gave you people two days and you couldn't even find a way to get this game out of the RVS, for shame.

So it's everyone else's responsibility to get us out of the RVS? That's an strange way of looking at things, don't you think? Especially for an IC?

Diakron 3 skitzo, Ibrahimagic, Raskol
Ibrahimagic
skitzo 1 Diakron
Tehstefan
Bub Bidderskins 1 Tehstefan
Del 1 Bub Bidderskins
Raskol 1 Del
Maemuki
Debonair Danny DiPietro 1 Maemuki

Not Voting

Debonair Danny DiPietro

[Raskol]

People shouldn't sign up for games that they aren't willing to play.

[Raskol]

It wasn't directed at you, but it means that we need more people actually posting.

[Raskol]

Yeah, what this game needs is some "interesting" trivia.

So hey, skitzo's name and mine both mean "split", only from different languages (Greek and Russian), and mine is spelled the normal way and his isn't.

So here's a super serious question for diakron: if you'd known that, would you have voted for me?

[Raskol]

Also---Del, why are you so worried about being condemned?

[Raskol]

You would have, eh? Even before I asked you a stupid question?

Why?

[Raskol]

Hmm, well, my current vote isn't random, so I'd say I've already been out of the RVS since my second post.

[Raskol]

EBWOP: I guess it was my fourth post, I was just thinking it was the second since the first three all came together.

But yeah, the vote on Diakron is serious, and so is the question, all appearances aside.

[Raskol]

Haha, I love how everyone is posting what their names mean/don't mean now. Not my intent, but I can see how you might think it was.

[Raskol]

Danny thinks the purpose of voting and building 'cases' right out of the RVS is to catch scum on page one/two, and so if that's not likely he won't do it

Related: Diakron, why did you unviote when you saw that skitzo didn't seem schizo?

Was your vote a serious one or random? If it was random, why'd you unvote when you 'found out' it was such a silly reason? Random votes are supposed to be silly-you don't need to take them back when you find out your random reason is wrong!

If it was serious, why would you vote someone for such a silly reason?

[Raskol]

Diakron is scum, lynch him.

[Raskol]

Okay, if it's going to take someone doing something stupid to get discussion going, that person might as well be me.

ALL POWER ROLES CLAIM NOW

Also, what do you guys think of a no lynch today?

[Raskol]

I would put someone at L-1, but alas, there's no one with enough votes.

[Raskol]

*insert blatant contradiction here*

[Raskol]

Okay, if it's going to take someone doing something stupid to get discussion going, that person might as well be me.

ALL POWER ROLES CLAIM NOW

Also, what do you guys think of a no lynch today?

OMG obvscum

unvote

Vote: Raskol

[Raskol]

Okay, if it's going to take someone doing something stupid to get discussion going, that person might as well be me.

ALL POWER ROLES CLAIM NOW

Also, what do you guys think of a no lynch today?

OMG obvscum

unvote

Vote: Raskol

I'm liking this wagon.

vote: Raskol

[Raskol]

vote: Raskol

For rolefishing, suggesting no lynch, saying he wished he could put someone at L-1, voting himself, contradicting himself, and for spamming a dead thread

[Raskol]

That's L-1. Someone get in here and hammer him before he can claim!

[Raskol]

Scum points for trying to stifle discussion, Maemuki. True, I was talking to myself, but that's more conversation than we've had yet.

Anyway, Diakron isn't at L-2, I unvoted him to vote for Raskol.

If you want, you can put him at L-2 now, then I'll put him at L-1. As you can see from my earlier post, I've been wanting do to that for a while.

BTW, question for you Maemuki....are you scum?

[Raskol]

unvote

Vote: Diakron

If you want to vote for Ibrahimagic, do it. Don't ask the town to see if we like it first, scum.

Also, answer my questions.

FoS: Bub Bidderskins

Don't put words in my mouth. Also, if you're scumpartners with Diakron, you should be trying to make it a bit less obvious.

[Raskol]

Well, you didn't put the words into your own mouth, and since you aren't saying otherwise, I assume I was right.

What the fuck? Read my posts from before which say it was a serious vote. I don't need to say otherwise now, since I already said otherwise before you even said it. This goes beyond misrep.

So, why do you vote for Diakron, huh? Explain that.

-unvoting his 'random' vote for 'serious' reasons
-asking for permission to vote Ibrahim

Also, just because I state that there is a slight bit of reason to what somebody says doesn't automatically qualify me as scum parters. You, I might add, are not the only one voting for Diakron. Does that make you a scum partener with those other people?

If you agree with Diakron that lynching Ibrahimagic is a good idea, then why aren't you voting for Ibrahimagic?

This whole thing just reeks of a newbscumteam feeling out the waters for a mislynch.

[Raskol]

Hmm.

UNVOTE

I have to think carefully here, but I just don't see anything to vote for. Is no lynch okay here?

No lynch is not good for town, so no, that's not okay.

[Raskol]

Diakron, why did you unviote when you saw that skitzo didn't seem schizo?

Was your vote a serious one or random? If it was random, why'd you unvote when you 'found out' it was such a silly reason? Random votes are supposed to be silly-you don't need to take them back when you find out your random reason is wrong!

If it was serious, why would you vote someone for such a silly reason?

[Raskol]

i apologize we play mafia a little differntly in Bay12games we give silly reasons to unvote too.

But you didn't give a silly reason to unvote. You gave a serious reason for unvoting a silly vote.

Also, I went to Bay12games and read the start of a few games, didn't see anyone doing what you've done. Link me several examples or this defense fails epically.

I forgot to

Vote: Ibrahimagic

as i was in a hurry to type last time and wont be able to type for a while (cut my finger hurts like a ***** to type)

Forgot, eh? That sounds like

bullshit

a perfectly reasonable excuse.

Also, appeal to emotion noted. Your finger hurts, but apparently not so much that you can't tell us how much it hurts, and it means you can't type, except to tell us you won't be posting for a while.

I feel so sorry for you and totally will excuse your future lurking and your previous scumtells (not).

Raskol: are you normally as jumpy as a squirrel on hot pavement?

Only when I've had too much caffeine. Are you usually this scummy?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Diakron, what's your opinion on Bub Bidderskins? Town or scum, and why?

Bub Bidderskins, what's your opinion on Diakron? Town or scum, and why?

Everyone: who's your top suspect and why? "I don't know" will not be acceptable.

[Raskol]

Why are you not voting for any of your top suspects, Bub?

[Raskol]

unvote

vote: Bub Bidderskins

[Raskol]

unvote

vote: Bub Bidderskins

Why? Honestly,

I was tyring to pressure him into roleclaiming

and was waiting for a response. Instead, now we're back at L-2 because of your antics. Fine, if you want to hammer him, go ahead.

vote: diakron

Have you ever played mafia before?

[Raskol]

The games here aren't usually like this at all, we just have a bunch of people who don't seem to want to participate. The game is totally player driven, so the quality of the game depends on the quality of the players.

[Raskol]

I thought it would be fun to see if he was lying or not. :shrugs:

lying about what?

[Raskol]

While we're both on, Danny, do you think you could answer a few questions for me?

---Why did you random vote last game but not this one?

---What would you think of lynching today based on a random roll among the 4 players who have the lowest in-thread postcount two days before deadline?

---Who are your top targets for scum at this point, and why? (I realize there's not much info yet).

Actually, I would like answers to the last two from everyone.

[Raskol]

---What would you think of lynching today based on a random roll among the 4 players who have the lowest in-thread postcount two days before deadline?

I think we have ten days (at least?) till deadline and that there's no reason to panic and do anything rash just yet. In fact there appears to finally be good information from at least some players to evaluate so no need to do something nonsensical like vote randomly.

I was thinking of it more as an incentive to activity, actually.

[Raskol]

Ibrahimagic, Skitzo, and Maemuki all still have their random votes on.

So, a question for those three:

Since you haven't changed your votes, can I assume that the person you're voting for is currently your top suspect? If the person you're voting for is your top suspect, why are they? If they aren't, why are you still voting for them?
______________________________________________________________________________

Bub, answer my question from post 108. What did you want to see if Diakron was lying about?

[Raskol]

We could just shamelessly bandwagon them until they say something instead, how does that sound?

Better than nothing. Why don't you start us off?

[Raskol]

unvote

vote: Tehstefan

This only works if we have several people doing it.

Someone else get on this wagon. We have cake.

[Raskol]

I have nothing else to say as this game is so slow that i have gotten bored with it. i will try playing one more time on this forum and if its the same i will find another place to play.

what would you prefer?
alot of one-liners?

Skitzo, please stop posting one-liners. Or two-liners. Just. Post. Something. Kthx.

isnt that what diakron wants maemuki?
if we dont really go into very much detail then it will be faster?
right now my top suspect would definitely be diakron seeing as he wanted all the power roles to claim

As a matter of fact, it wasn't Diakron that asked the power roles to claim. It was Raskol.

I would have gotten away with it too, if not for you meddling kids.

Diakron 3 Ibrahimagic, Tehstefan, Bub Bidderskins
Ibrahimagic 1 Diakron
skitzo
Tehstefan 3 Debonair Danny DiPietro, Raskol, Maemuki
Bub Bidderskins
Del
Raskol 1 skitzo
Maemuki
Debonair Danny DiPietro


Not Voting

Del

[Raskol]

Hmm. My apologies for not posting more often, Calculus is a cruel mistress. However, I don't think I would be an undercontributer. In any case, I dunno if Raskol is in the clear yet for me. He is doing a great job of drawing attention to himself, something rather unscummy, but it could just all be a ploy, act brazen and have people think your not. And eek! I'm being bandwagoned!

Are you suspicious or not? In either case, try not to rely on that kind of "but maybe that's just what he WANTS us to think!" reasoning, it's called WIFOM and it's generally frowned upon for good reason.

[Raskol]

Well, it depends on the flip, but I'd say Del and Bub have some explaining to do tomorrow O_o.

[Raskol]

You're allowed to post until the mod officially declares you dead.

[Raskol]

Sorry guys, I've had a fever recently due to an infection and haven't been able to concentrate for shit. I'm headed to the doctor's on Monday to get it taken care of and after that I should be better and back in action, but until then I think my posting's going to be limited.

Feel free to replace me if that's going to be a problem

[Raskol]

Still not 100%, but here's something.

EBWOP: If your reasoning that I'm a lurker, I'm sorry to say there is indeed far worse lurkers than me. Why has no one commented on Ibrahmagic's lack of posts, while commenting on mine? Seems like better reasoning could be used here than is.

Blame the next person! Blame him damnit! [/typicalscumbehaviour]

I would bandwagon him, if I believed in that logic! I personally don't feel that your reasoning holds up, so I don't follow it. I want solid fact before I go to lynch someone

Welcome to Mafia. Unless you're a cop/scum, you never know anybody's alignment for sure. Live with it.

Now my vote isn't parked on anyone.

And that will make us believe that you're town...because?

Can you explain what you were doing here, Maemuki?

It seems like you were treating the Tehstefan wagon as a serious wagon, not a random bandwagon on a lurker to get them into the game.

I hope I don't have to explain why that doesn't sit well with me (though I will if I do have to).

[Raskol]

I understand that it looks that way, but it's pure coincidence---I had planned to say something about it since day 1 ended, but with my illness I never got around to it until yesterday.

Anyway, what do you mean, bring stuff to a real wagon?

[Raskol]

Though, DDD, while I do agree with the logic, how is it in a mafian's best interest to keep the game moving?

It's not especially beneficial which is why it's that much more likely to come from someone who is invested in the game and the community.

That seems pretty weak to me. You're assuming that keeping the game going had something to do with the NK, when there could have been any number of reasons for it.

Also, I don't blame you for this as you can't be expected to incriminate yourself, but I'd like to remind the rest of the players that the point you've made against the SEs applies equally well (in fact, better) to yourself, as an IC.

Anyway, what do you mean, bring stuff to a real wagon?

I mean - see if was really scummy or not.

You haven't struck me in any of your other posts as an aggressive player, so I don't buy this. Why would you fish for reactions in this way for Tehstefan, and not any of the other players?

[Raskol]

First of all, just because you don't think there's anything to suggest he's a power role doesn't mean no one could have thought he was. I happen to agree that he didn't seem like a PR, but I'm not going to assume that everyone shares my read.

Second, insofar as Ibrahim did have stances on the game, and he did, we can't simply assume that he wasn't perceived as a threat by anyone. He asked you a question which might have been out of suspicion, and he expressed a clear desire to see Diakron dead---actually, Diakron seemed interested in killing Ibrahim during the day, as well. So there are two people who might potentially have seen him as a threat. Bub Bidderskins also wanted to lynch him, so add him to the list of people who might have wanted him dead.

In addition to all the plausible little stories one can think of, there's also the simple possibility that someone killed him for a reason that wouldn't make any sense to me at all. We have a lot of first timers in this game and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see them NK someone for reasons we don't usually see. That's part of why I think this case would be weak even if if your reason really were the only 'logical' one---it's not at all unlikely that the kill was a suboptimal newb play.

[Raskol]

He had three posts, one of them was his RVS post, another was a single question directed to me. If you're going to tell me that it's possible that someone found a PR tell in his posts then I'm going to say that you've passed from improbability to impossibility just so you can disagree with me.

Some people would say that such lack of activity itself is a PR tell. I know for a fact that the wiki, for example, gives that impression, which is something newbies may follow.

Diakron was replaced either before night began officially or overnight by CSL, so Diakron couldn't have had any say in the NK.

A replacement has the same reason to fear those who wanted to kill the person they replace as the person they replaced would have. Null point.

And why would scum Bub kill Ibrahim, you don't generally kill those you think you can secure a mislynch of.

He tried to get Ibrahimagic lynched and found no support. So this actually strengthens my point: thank you.

There are a few basic reasons you kill someone in this game and occasionally a few WIFOM counters to those.

Which newbies (especially first timers) are more likely than anyone else to be unfamiliar with.

In any case, I don't think turning the game into a discussion on this is terribly useful. If you want to regard your thoughts about the NK as a reason to distrust the experienced players, fine. I've pointed out why I think it's weak, and that any strength it does carry applies to you as well, which is all I really have to say about it.

[Raskol]

Well, I'm waiting for a response from her before I vote, but I'm going for Maemuki atm, because of that post and her explanations for it, and the incongruence of both of those with the rest of the game she's played.

I also feel like the game is stalling, though. There are a lot of people I simply haven't heard enough from.

[Raskol]

Welcome.

BTW, are you scum?

[Raskol]

Maemuki---I'm gonna feel stupid if I'm wrong, but I'll buy it.

Good point about CSL, too. This calls for some bandwagon.

vote: CSL

[Raskol]

Well, I'm saying this. Diakron did not play well. His play is making me look really bad.

Where is a votecount when you need one?

Trying my best to get the others...

Why don't you start trying to make yourself look better, then?

[Raskol]

What makes you think you'll be alive day 3?

[Raskol]

I got kinda tired of trying to keep a game alive which no one seemed to want to play.

I'm still here though.

[Raskol]

Do you think rudeness is alignment relevant?

[Raskol]

Well, you're free to think that.

[Raskol]

People being less than entirely nice to you when you act scummy

is

part of how things are done here, though.

[Raskol]

Actually, that was pertinent to the game, since in your humongous wall of text you said that Bub and I were scummy for being mean. I don't really even think anyone was being all that harsh, but w/e.

TBH though, wrt him leaving, I'm not sure if someone who lurks that bad and can't take some game-restricted non-personal confrontation would be a good fit for playing mafia here anyway. Better to act like you would in a real game and let them know what it's really like. If they can't take it---well, at least they've wasted less of their (and our) time.

But as for another question regarding the game---you disapproved of the Teh wagon.

What would you have done at that point to keep the game alive and get people posting?

[Raskol]

He only started posting after we started wagoning him. I don't like the fact that he was hammered, and if he hadn't moved from L-2 to dead so quickly I would have unvoted, but the wagon was still the only thing that got him into the game.

There were other people who also weren't posting, and if Teh hadn't been hammered we might have been able to get them in with the same method. But we could only start out with one, and he was as good a choice as any.

[Raskol]

I know how you feel about Diakron. How do you feel about CSL and his basic refusal to offer anything of substance to the game?

Well, my vote is on him. That should tell you something.

[Raskol]

I think we have to assume we're still under deadline with only possible extensions for forum down time. That means Maemuki and CSL need to vote, probably for each other and Bub needs to declare who he intends to hammer if that's the case so we can get a claim to evaluate before deadline.

You seem somewhat indifferent to the lynch choice today.

Why leave it in bub's hands without trying to convince him your target is the better one?

[Raskol]

lol

die scum die

[Raskol]

Hmmm...

Maemuki had me fooled in other games. If I think she's a townie, it's always the opposite.

OF COURSE!

Unvote; Vote: Maemuki

I hope you're scum...

Last minute bus attempt detected.

New target acquired.

MegaFoS: Maemuki

[Raskol]

If his vote counted while in parentheses then he's dead.

You could vote him too just to make sure though.

[Raskol]

After having it confirmed that CSL is in fact cum, I'm now taking Danny's willingness to leave the lynch decision to Bub as a town tell. I doubt he'd take such a stance towards his scumpartner, especially when he's on record as not supporting his lynch. Feeres' help in pushing the wagon on CSL has me thinking town for him as well. I'll be willing to bet quite a bit that we have our remaining scum between Bub and Mae. Since we have a mislynch to spend, things look pretty good from where I'm standing.

Vote: Maemuki

as most likely to be CSL's partner. I posted a bit of my thoughts on that yesterday in twilight, but I'll probably have more to say later if I have to convince people.

[Raskol]

hehe, amusing typos

[Raskol]

I don't see any harm in having them answer that at this point in the game.

[Raskol]

Maemuki is still avoiding this game. I wouldn't mind someone hammering her way before the deadline (but not before the questions are answered).

[Raskol]

Dead people don't talk.

[Raskol]

Go town.

Also, yay for competing scumwagons.

[Raskol]

Yeah, and we managed it mountainous too.

I wonder how often this setup wins for town in newbie games? Probably not a lot. So you guys

should

feel pretty good! We took this back from what I worried was going to be a game where lurkerscum coasted to victory. Thanks especially to Starbuck for breathing some new life into the game when she replaced in: that definitely helped. Although you shouldn't have been so mad about me being mean to SCUM!!!

I suspect that our lack of any PRs had something to do with the general lack of interest in this game.

Also, I really hate to do this, but I CALLED IT ON PAGE THREE! EAT THAT!